Gamethread: Magic @ Rockets 01/30

[PennytoShaq]

So here's a mind-blowing stat.

DJ Augustin's started 7 games this year. In those 7, Magic are 5-2. Vogel doesn't use him most of the game though. His minutes as a starter are slightly higher than him as a bench guy. DJ still isn't great at defense. he isn't great in offense. He does get himself out of the way as a point guard - by giving the ball to other guys who can score or create.

Well he also can drill 3's so he gives you spacing.

When you start Elf plus Biz, the spacing is gone. It's a reason for AG struggling. The reason AG is missing shots is he has less time.When he was killing it from 3, he was able to shoot without being rushed. Now he is being rushed and that usually brings back bad habits.

It's great for development and tanking though because if AG can start nailing shots under pressure, he could be scary.

Elf is a goner. I have said this for a while now. Not only do the advanced stats show the lack gravity on the floor with him in, but so does the film. If his defense was elite, it would maybe be ok, but that's been incredibly poor as well.

[ORL_on_FIRE]

So is Calvin Murphy always at Houston games or was it predetermined that Harden was going to play every minute until he broke that record.

[SOUL]

So here's a mind-blowing stat.

DJ Augustin's started 7 games this year. In those 7, Magic are 5-2. Vogel doesn't use him most of the game though. His minutes as a starter are slightly higher than him as a bench guy. DJ still isn't great at defense. he isn't great in offense. He does get himself out of the way as a point guard - by giving the ball to other guys who can score or create.

He averages 9 less minutes than Elfrid. What are you talking about?

Gives the ball to other guys?!

[MagicStarwipe]

I swear if Elfrid cut his hair, he could be the exact same player and people would completely flip their opinions of him lol

[drsd]

I swear if Elfrid cut his hair, he could be the exact same player and people would completely flip their opinions of him lol

At this point, his 2014 hair style looks "normal."

[MagicStarwipe]

I swear if Elfrid cut his hair, he could be the exact same player and people would completely flip their opinions of him lol

At this point, his 2014 hair style looks "normal."

You're right. At the time even that seemed really weird but now a lot of guys come into the league with similar hair. I guess he was a trendsetter.

[___Rand___]

So here's a mind-blowing stat.

DJ Augustin's started 7 games this year. In those 7, Magic are 5-2. Vogel doesn't use him most of the game though. His minutes as a starter are slightly higher than him as a bench guy. DJ still isn't great at defense. he isn't great in offense. He does get himself out of the way as a point guard - by giving the ball to other guys who can score or create.

He averages 9 less minutes than Elfrid. What are you talking about?

Gives the ball to other guys?!

watching the games he isn't hanging onto the ball dribbling about as much as EP, at least from what I've seen. Whereas EP likes to dribble around a bit. the ball movement on a team is better when a PG doesn't hang on to the ball as much.

[Xatticus]

So here's a mind-blowing stat.

DJ Augustin's started 7 games this year. In those 7, Magic are 5-2. Vogel doesn't use him most of the game though. His minutes as a starter are slightly higher than him as a bench guy. DJ still isn't great at defense. he isn't great in offense. He does get himself out of the way as a point guard - by giving the ball to other guys who can score or create.

He averages 9 less minutes than Elfrid. What are you talking about?

Gives the ball to other guys?!

watching the games he isn't hanging onto the ball dribbling about as much as EP, at least from what I've seen. Whereas EP likes to dribble around a bit. the ball movement on a team is better when a PG doesn't hang on to the ball as much.

You've got them reversed. Augustin pounds the ball a lot more than does Payton. I don't know that it's a conscious effort by Augustin so much as he is just a really poor facilitator. He struggles to get by anyone with his dribble due to his lack of size and explosiveness and so he grinds chunks off the shot clock whenever he is trying to create something.

Payton seldom does this. He has little trouble getting by anyone, but if he gets into the paint and doesn't get a shot up at the rim, he will dribble through, pass the ball off, and sit in a corner. Payton is the far better facilitator because he can get into the paint anytime he wants, but he lacks the vision to really capitalize on it.

The only advantage Augustin has over Payton is as a long-distance shooter.

[___Rand___]

He averages 9 less minutes than Elfrid. What are you talking about?

Gives the ball to other guys?!

watching the games he isn't hanging onto the ball dribbling about as much as EP, at least from what I've seen. Whereas EP likes to dribble around a bit. the ball movement on a team is better when a PG doesn't hang on to the ball as much.

You've got them reversed. Augustin pounds the ball a lot more than does Payton. I don't know that it's a conscious effort by Augustin so much as he is just a really poor facilitator. He struggles to get by anyone with his dribble due to his lack of size and explosiveness and so he grinds chunks off the shot clock whenever he is trying to create something.

Payton seldom does this. He has little trouble getting by anyone, but if he gets into the paint and doesn't get a shot up at the rim, he will dribble through, pass the ball off, and sit in a corner. Payton is the far better facilitator because he can get into the paint anytime he wants, but he lacks the vision to really capitalize on it.

The only advantage Augustin has over Payton is as a long-distance shooter.

I'm gonna re-watch some of the old games just to see if my recollection is wrong. I guess I saw the better Augustin games then.

What I like about Payton is when he is ON, and engaged in the game, he shows that vision! A couple of the games I saw last year I saw him make passes that takes vision, like the way Lonzo sees. And then in most other games, it just looks like he is just going through the motion.

[SOUL]

watching the games he isn't hanging onto the ball dribbling about as much as EP, at least from what I've seen. Whereas EP likes to dribble around a bit. the ball movement on a team is better when a PG doesn't hang on to the ball as much.

You've got them reversed. Augustin pounds the ball a lot more than does Payton. I don't know that it's a conscious effort by Augustin so much as he is just a really poor facilitator. He struggles to get by anyone with his dribble due to his lack of size and explosiveness and so he grinds chunks off the shot clock whenever he is trying to create something.

Payton seldom does this. He has little trouble getting by anyone, but if he gets into the paint and doesn't get a shot up at the rim, he will dribble through, pass the ball off, and sit in a corner. Payton is the far better facilitator because he can get into the paint anytime he wants, but he lacks the vision to really capitalize on it.

The only advantage Augustin has over Payton is as a long-distance shooter.

I'm gonna re-watch some of the old games just to see if my recollection is wrong. I guess I saw the better Augustin games then.

What I like about Payton is when he is ON, and engaged in the game, he shows that vision! A couple of the games I saw last year I saw him make passes that takes vision, like the way Lonzo sees. And then in most other games, it just looks like he is just going through the motion.

Yeah, it's widely known Augustin is the ball pounder. Payton holds the ball at times when Simmons and Fournier are running through curls, by design, which sometimes doesn't work out, otherwise he's pretty quick to either drive or dish it early. The annoying thing about Augustin is he dribbles with zero intentions of making a play and we know it's gonna be a forced shot or late shot clock possession from the jump.

To be fair to DJ, he's playing his best ball of the season the last two weeks. Making good decisions and shooting well, drawing fouls, etc. But I think a lot of credit also should be thrown to Shelvin Mack because he's taking pressure off DJ being a main ball handler because when he's tasked to set everybody up, he's only good at doing that with Speights and other people get visibly annoyed out there at times (especially Mario).