Why is it hard to develop players here?

[pepe1991]

Lack of directon, or having patience to see direction go all the way through.
2 years into tanking and they thought they are playoff team, hurted Hezonja's playing time, traded Harris, year later traded Oladipo and pick.

It doesn't matter how much vets you have if they are right vets and they don't eat PT and usage from young kids. But that was not case with Magic. Jeff Green , Meeks and others were not there to help youth but to compete and push youth away from rotation ( case and point- Hezonja ).

All coaches during Magic rebuild era, after SVG were horrendus and non of them will ever coach again. That's says a lot about decisions made about them,when they were hired.

Thats not true, only guy who survived all the coaching changes in rebuilding period is Magic development coach Jay Hernandez.Think he even got promoted last year as head of development or something.

i was thinking about head coaches.
JV- only team ever that he coached- Magic, Borrego, fired, back as assistent coach, Skiles, quit, didn't coach since, Vogel - Magic are probably his last nba team that he will coach

[Tarheel]

I think there's an organisational element to this as well, evidenced by all the hires that Weltman and Hammond made at the beginning of their tenure. I think that during Hennigan's era (and previously) not enough attention was paid to what a good player development organisation actually does. We drafted players and thought they'd improve by playing games, working hard and figuring it out themselves.

I do believe this is changing though, we now have people within the organisation whose sole job is to help our players improve (Becky Bonner, David Tenney etc) and I think we're seeing the benefits of that throughout this season. Mario, Khem, Evan, Aaron, Vuc and Wes have all made strides with their game either before this season or during it.

I think we need to do everything we can to keep Forcier and Matt Lloyd around, as I think they are great pieces of what is now actually quite a good staff. It's just a case of moving the organisation as a whole back in the right direction now that Rob has gone, and actually continuously paying attention to all the small details that we can do better rather than being ignorant to them (which I ultimately think was Rob's downfall and the cause for the apathetic culture Weltman and Hammond inherited).

[TreasureCoast]

Lack of directon, or having patience to see direction go all the way through.
2 years into tanking and they thought they are playoff team, hurted Hezonja's playing time, traded Harris, year later traded Oladipo and pick.

It doesn't matter how much vets you have if they are right vets and they don't eat PT and usage from young kids. But that was not case with Magic. Jeff Green , Meeks and others were not there to help youth but to compete and push youth away from rotation ( case and point- Hezonja ).

All coaches during Magic rebuild era, after SVG were horrendus and non of them will ever coach again. That's says a lot about decisions made about them,when they were hired.

Thats not true, only guy who survived all the coaching changes in rebuilding period is Magic development coach Jay Hernandez.Think he even got promoted last year as head of development or something.

i was thinking about head coaches.
JV- only team ever that he coached- Magic, Borrego, fired, back as assistent coach, Skiles, quit, didn't coach since, Vogel - Magic are probably his last nba team that he will coach

So you are saying the Magic have ruined Vogel's career?

[NBlue]

Culture, we have/had a bad culture top to bottom, locker room, selfish players, selfish coaches, bad front office, no vision or long term plan, until that changes we'll struggle.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

[OrlDave]

Even right now we can't even say we are committed to AG or Mario or even Vogel.

This team 100% needs to give AG a contract and claim our loyalty to him. Victor, AG, Mario, Isaac. That should have been our core, plus whomever we draft. Obviously, Victor is gone for nothing, but we can still save the other 3. Put them in with Simmons and the PG we draft (Trey Young?) and that should be our starting 5. Yes, I'm suggesting Isaac at the 5 and he's probably not going to be able to do it for a few years, but I think he can be a center considering the way the league is currently configured (mobile, outside shooting bigs). For the time being, he can come off the bench backing up Nik, AG and Mario at the 3-5 spots until he gains sufficient strength to become the starting center.

[Audi]

Because we give up on their development and ship them out at 23 yo.

[fklt]

it's weird, I totally reached a different conclusion about the cause of our problems.

did we give up too early on our players? did we not provide with enough chance to play? I'd say excluding mario almost all of them got a fair amount of time to improve. this obviously wasn't an issue of time. we saw lots of younger guys on other teams get their feet under them in much shorter durations.

we kinda knew that we didn't had any ready-now young guys (unlike say philly, which has 2 of them that started playing at the same time). almost all of our guys were raw projects. and for all the talk of culture issues within the locker room, they were mostly high character dudes. so I won't accept that its the batch of players that we have that is problematic. just look at them individually, can you see spot a poisonous one that's causing all of these big problems?
problems start when you set up a cage match for talented young guys and say "go find out which one of you is the good one"
problems start when you select one guy, that is not capable of doing better than the others, as the alpha by external interference and make the others bow down to him.

oladipo referencing westbrook for his development should be more eye-opening to people I think. we never had that accomplished, committed, dependable, older guy that could show them the ropes. someone that our guys could take a backseat to without having their egos hurt. so I think the moment we had signed gordon and payton, to really let all of them develop to their potential and shine, we also had to pay big money to some older star.

just look at the way jimmy butler helps wiggins and towns. he helps them grow with confidence by letting them get better at their own pace. maybe it could have been millsap for us. maybe a guy like conley, iguodala, gasol, horford. someone who is in their prime and mature. but even talk of signing these kinda guys always triggered reactions like oh I don't want to pay for that, oh he is too old, oh his window doesn't fit our young guys. well now that we haven't paid one, are we now happy with our cap situation or our championship window? looks like the whole 5-year of the rebuild has gone sideways at this point.

so, to answer the question; who's to blame? you can't blame players, especially if they are finding success elsewhere. In my opinion, GM is the one that should be wholly responsible for a situation like this. I know people don't like management either but their blame in this is only on the choice of GM. and ours was only good at finding good players. his idea of player development was signing Jacque Vaughn ffs, it's a surprise that we didn't see this one coming.

[I Rasharted]

In the post-Howard era we haven't landed on a bonafide star. Stars are rare.

[ChosenSavior]

I think there's an organisational element to this as well, evidenced by all the hires that Weltman and Hammond made at the beginning of their tenure. I think that during Hennigan's era (and previously) not enough attention was paid to what a good player development organisation actually does. We drafted players and thought they'd improve by playing games, working hard and figuring it out themselves.

I do believe this is changing though, we now have people within the organisation whose sole job is to help our players improve (Becky Bonner, David Tenney etc) and I think we're seeing the benefits of that throughout this season. Mario, Khem, Evan, Aaron, Vuc and Wes have all made strides with their game either before this season or during it.

I think we need to do everything we can to keep Forcier and Matt Lloyd around, as I think they are great pieces of what is now actually quite a good staff. It's just a case of moving the organisation as a whole back in the right direction now that Rob has gone, and actually continuously paying attention to all the small details that we can do better rather than being ignorant to them (which I ultimately think was Rob's downfall and the cause for the apathetic culture Weltman and Hammond inherited).

100% agree with all of this.

[NBlue]

In the post-Howard era we haven't landed on a bonafide star. Stars are rare.

I hate to break this to you but we did. He's just playing for the Pacers now.

[Rockzin4]

Culture. Players need to be held to a higher standard. The fact that guys like Oladipo didn't know that it's a good idea to be in shape confuses me.

[JF5]

Culture/Management...

[j-ragg]

I blame Willie Green and his 4th quarter minutes.

[darthmerrick]

Because we had no accountability and than brought in a bunch of Foreign and selfish vets that would ice out our younger players.

[Jiwol]

Because we had no accountability and than brought in a bunch of Foreign and selfish vets that would ice out our younger players.

Who was in that "bunch of foreign vets that would ice out our younger players" that we had brought? Only two players who fit that decsription I can think of were Ilyasova and Ibaka. And they spent very short time on the roster.

If you're talkin about Fournier and Vuc (as I assume you are because who else you might be thinking about), you need to check your facts. Vuc was 2nd year player who was obtained at the very beginning of our "rebulid" and Fournier joined the team when he was 22 after 2 years in Denver.