Positive And Analytical Thread

[zaymon]

Hello everyone! I want to start discussion for those of us who are positive and want to give their insight into our present and future. I had enough of the negativity, not cheering for wins, not looking for all the options available. If we win this is the place to write which youngster made progress, which players click with each other etc.

First i want to give credit to our current FO, becouse they are the ones who give me hope. In the past our basketball operations department was under financed, now we made a bunch of costly hires. We have POBO, GM, salary cap specialist, we started player development program ( becouse there was none!!!!), we have coach consultant ( this is suspicious), we have g-league team nearby. Our FO guys are experienced, know basketball and can make their own decisions regarding composition of the team. In the past i had a feeling that every team concept changed with current coach, becouse Hennigan didnt have his own ideas.

WeHam early moves are encouraging. They are smart, and try to be one step ahead of the pack ( in the past we were 10 years behind). Trading our first round pick was suprising but we can see the logic behind. First round picks are becoming more, and more valuable, and while Kyle Kuzma is good i am not sure he is worth a first round pick now. Second thing is with our current group this pick would propably worse the chemistry, and didnt have space to develop properly.
Drafting Isaac is another example of their forward thinking. DSJ would be more fancy, but Isaac has chance to be special.
Analyzing contender teams he fits with all of them. He has good 3 point shot which i hope will only get better. If i try to imagine houston with Isaac replacing Anderson its scary. In GSW he could be small ball 5 like Durant during playoff ultimate death lineups. With the way celtics are using Tatum i think he would be better there aswell. I think more teams will try to replicate Rockets becouse its easier than Warriors, and he fits amazing standing behind 3 point line on offense, and wreaking havoc on defense.

Next thing is us winning games. I know it hurts but when we think about that its not such a big deal. We have a lot of young players who need playing time. Developing Mario, Aaron, Evan (he is 25 !), Jonathan is such a huge thing ! Now our guys have minimal value ( look Payton trade), no one wants to sign with us in free agency. With winning we increase the value of all of them. We make them more positive to sign with us, or sign for less money. The example is Hezonja. He is playing really well with us lately. He said during interview that WE build for the future. Maybe he is just being polite, or maybe he really thinks about resigning. We dont know what WeHam told him when they didnt exercise his option, if they are smart they told him they want to give him freedom choosing for who he wants to play, not force anything.(even if they felt otherwise).
This draft is deep but i dont see any cant miss projects outside of Doncic maybe.
10 years ago Ayton could be generational talent, same with Bamba, Bagley, JJJ, now i think their skill sets are lacking. This draft feels like a trap to me. I can envision a scenario where Young, Mikal Bridges, Wendell Carter, Zhaire Smith will be better players. This is not a good draft to tank for in my opinion. We should win as many games as we can, sign Mario, have a discount on Gordon new deal, and pick a player with modern skill set.

I am waiting for some positive posters here !

[drsd]

I am waiting for some positive posters here !

I am positive I agree with virtually all of your thought lines. But I want to focus on one: wining.

Young teams need wins. Orlando should not be chasing lottery balls this season (the team had playoff aspirations after all). This toilet of a season is more about injuries than a lack of talent.

I am excited about Fournier, Isaac, Gordon, and Vučević. There is a hue amount of starter-capacity talent in those four. I love Ross and Simmons as bench players. Iwundu and Birch clearly are competent in the 8-10 range. There is a lot to look towards relative to internal growth.

What does Orlando need? Well Fournier needs to shift tot he SG slot (or Orlando drafts Dončić and must trade Fournier). After that, Augustin is the one player to target for an upgrade.

Anaylitics must become a defensive focus. The current team is playing acceptable man-tom-man defense, but team defense has been appalling. The front-office support of analytics is key here. Tape and trainers are key assets moving forward. Orlando projects to be a young team next year and as such there is every reason to expect activity on defense.

I am excited about the 2018/19 Orlando Magic. And I want wins this year to lead to that excitement.



..

[Statlanta]

Positive thread, OK.

AG has the 3rd highest Usage on the team so we can't blame anybody for holding him back

DJ has the highest TS% on the team. Gives you perspective whenever he is forced/tries to iso.

Judah "Jonathan Isaac" is leading the team in Defensive Box Plus MInus so he's been fulfilling some of the floor comparisons for what we drafted him for.

Khem Kong "Khem Birch" is not a complete negative on the court.

[RookieStar]

I am excited about the emergence of AG, the usefulness back-up skills of Birch and of course Isaac. With the little games he has shown us already I truly believe we have ourselves a star in the making.

For the future, I can't wait to see which of the draftees we are gonna pick. For me, this is a can't miss draft if you are in the top 5. ( Before it was top-7 but JJJ and Young seems to be playing down )

[VFX]

Stuff is the best mascot in the game.

[Skybox]

Basically, the same crappy organizations tank every year and the same good to great organizations “shockingly”find and develop gems later in the draft. I think our roster is mismatched but has quite a bit of individual talent. I think we are closer to playoffs than we are to “blow it all up”...we need to develop our young guys and make a few shrewd moves to gain some flexibility and upside while looking for that big move...I see some promise in our roster despite the appalling record.

[SHAQ32]

Evan has accepted his male pattern balding

[zaymon]

Ok after watching the game there are not many positives but still.
1. Isaac defense is impressive, and offense will come. He doesnt force things, we will rate after he gets some kind of rhytm.
2. Hezonja progress is for real. We need this guy next year or we will lose more than a few spots in this years draft. He meshes well with Isaac, nice drives, good looking shoot, so much better defensively. In my eyes he is better defensively than Gordon. More active, better positioned, more focused.
3. Aaron Gordon is playing himself into a huge discount. He doesnt create for others, forces shots, bad positioning on defense. He is only good in transistion, second chance points and after somebody sets him up. I dont see a scenario he gets a max from other teams. I dont know if its only his fault, or Vogel cant get him accountable but its a mess right now.
4. Another positive is a loss obviously. I dont think we are a good team, that is why we should try to win every game.

Next thing a want to talk about is 2018 draft. We should open our eyes and watch players outside of top 7. We cant be so arogant about our tank, and upside of players who are still under the radar. I dont live in the USA, but maybe someone can talk some more about :

1. Wendell Carter. I like him more tham Bagley. More fluid, smarter defender, better passer, better skill set.

Watch on YouTube

2. Mikal Bridges. Long, athletic, improving his skills year after year, smart.

Watch on YouTube

3. Really impresses me. Good driver, nice vision, plays of the dribble, involves his teammates

Watch on YouTube

4. Zhaire Smith. Athletic. Good shooter. Two way potential.

Watch on YouTube

With this kind of players up for grabs after top 7 i will cheer for every magic win!

[The Effect]

Trading our first round pick was suprising but we can see the logic behind. First round picks are becoming more, and more valuable, and while Kyle Kuzma is good i am not sure he is worth a first round pick now.

Stopped reading right here
None of that made sense...1st rounders are becoming more valauble........so it was smart to give one away for NOTHING?? for 2 future 2nd? where exactly was the logic in that again?

Oh and Youre not sure if Kuzma is worth a late 1st round pick..... really?

Averaging 16/6 as a rookie and been the best player on a team thats better than our, and hes not worth a 1st? ok cool

[PennytoShaq]

Man, I agree with so much of this. It is nice to see others type it out because I was sick of doing it.

Absolutely agree about the draft. I really like Bridges a lot.

I also believe that this draft is not a great tank draft. I think there could be some fantastic wings at 7-12.

The only thing I am not doing is rooting for the team to win until they give big minutes to AG/Isaac Mario and Birch. These guys need to be playing a ton, as wins are meaningless unless the young guys are the ones getting them.

[zaymon]

Trading our first round pick was suprising but we can see the logic behind. First round picks are becoming more, and more valuable, and while Kyle Kuzma is good i am not sure he is worth a first round pick now.

Stopped reading right here
None of that made sense...1st rounders are becoming more valauble........so it was smart to give one away for NOTHING?? for 2 future 2nd? where exactly was the logic in that again?

Oh and Youre not sure if Kuzma is worth a late 1st round pick..... really?

Averaging 16/6 as a rookie and been the best player on a team thats better than our, and hes not worth a 1st? ok cool

First round picks are more and more valuable until you use them.
We have chance to get back first round pick.
Kuzma is not LAL best player.
It is not guaranteed we would pick him.
If we pick him he would have trouble playing consistent minutes.
Watching return for some star players it is not entirely sure he is worth first round pick.( ok i agree he is worth it now, but will he be worth it 2-3 years from now when it matters to us ? )

Thanks penny for positive and constructive post.

[Skin]

WeHam have made some positive moves, but that doesn't mean we should ignore their bad moves. Positivity does not trump truth.

Started the draft great by picking Isaac and then gave up on the rest of the draft.
Said they would use this year to analyze players and then declined to make Mario a RFA.
Shopped the entire team at the trade deadline but only traded Elf, and even then it was a pathetic return.
Still have a team of players that don't mesh and I honestly don't feel like they like each other.
Started a good tank, but will end up picking outside the Top 5.
Came in touting experience, but in practice, they have yet to show a single shrewd or masterful move.

[fendilim]

WeHam have made some positive moves, but that doesn't mean we should ignore their bad moves. Positivity does not trump truth.

Started the draft great by picking Isaac and then gave up on the rest of the draft.
Said they would use this year to analyze players and then declined to make Mario a RFA.
Shopped the entire team at the trade deadline but only traded Elf, and even then it was a pathetic return.
Still have a team of players that don't mesh and I honestly don't feel like they like each other.
Started a good tank, but will end up picking outside the Top 5.
Came in touting experience, but in practice, they have yet to show a single shrewd or masterful move.

i dont see why you sre upset with the elf trade.

You saw kind of deals that went through. Even deals for superstars were kinda dried up. To expect more than a secound rounder for elf is not being realistic.

Its better to hve gotten something than let him walk for nothing.

[Skin]

WeHam have made some positive moves, but that doesn't mean we should ignore their bad moves. Positivity does not trump truth.

Started the draft great by picking Isaac and then gave up on the rest of the draft.
Said they would use this year to analyze players and then declined to make Mario a RFA.
Shopped the entire team at the trade deadline but only traded Elf, and even then it was a pathetic return.
Still have a team of players that don't mesh and I honestly don't feel like they like each other.
Started a good tank, but will end up picking outside the Top 5.
Came in touting experience, but in practice, they have yet to show a single shrewd or masterful move.

i dont see why you sre upset with the elf trade.

You saw kind of deals that went through. Even deals for superstars were kinda dried up. To expect more than a secound rounder for elf is not being realistic.

Its better to hve gotten something than let him walk for nothing.

Here's a positive...

If WeHam made the asking price low specifically for Phx in order to allow the Magic top land Trae, then that will be a masterful move.

[zaymon]

WeHam have made some positive moves, but that doesn't mean we should ignore their bad moves. Positivity does not trump truth.

Started the draft great by picking Isaac and then gave up on the rest of the draft.
Said they would use this year to analyze players and then declined to make Mario a RFA.
Shopped the entire team at the trade deadline but only traded Elf, and even then it was a pathetic return.
Still have a team of players that don't mesh and I honestly don't feel like they like each other.
Started a good tank, but will end up picking outside the Top 5.
Came in touting experience, but in practice, they have yet to show a single shrewd or masterful move.

i dont see why you sre upset with the elf trade.

You saw kind of deals that went through. Even deals for superstars were kinda dried up. To expect more than a secound rounder for elf is not being realistic.

Its better to hve gotten something than let him walk for nothing.

Here's a positive...

If WeHam made the asking price low specifically for Phx in order to allow the Magic top land Trae, then that will be a masterful move.

Well Payton said they had better deals so who knows

[PennytoShaq]

Responses in red. FYI - Truth does not equal one's opinion, which is really what we are sharing here.

WeHam have made some positive moves, but that doesn't mean we should ignore their bad moves. Positivity does not trump truth.

Started the draft great by picking Isaac and then gave up on the rest of the draft. - Not sure this is as bad as made out until I see what they do with those picks.

Said they would use this year to analyze players and then declined to make Mario a RFA. - Had to. That decision had to be made very early into the season when Mario was still struggling. If anything, this decision was more in line with their narrative.

Shopped the entire team at the trade deadline but only traded Elf, and even then it was a pathetic return. - Not sure your point here. If they shopped the entire team and only got a "pathetic" return, isn't it probably for the best that they did not make any other trades?

Still have a team of players that don't mesh and I honestly don't feel like they like each other. - True, but not the FO's fault yet.


Started a good tank, but will end up picking outside the Top 5. - Not so sure that is a given. We have a pretty nice tank schedule ahead of us. Lets see how it goes.
Came in touting experience, but in practice, they have yet to show a single shrewd or masterful move. - How is this even defined? Their entire point this season was to only make small changes and draft a player they wanted in Isaac. I think their FA signings of vets to 1 year deals were smart. Simmons is a very good 6th man on a very good contract. I am not sure what the parameters are for "shrewd or msterful", but the NBA season does not always unfold to where those types of deals are possible

[zaymon]

Ok time for some positive analysis !

Orlando is losing a lot as expected. Minor injuries are helpful here. So what we know from our loses ?

1. From my point of view Hezonja disappears when he plays with Vucevic, they dont have chemistry like with Biyombo, maybe its becouse they rarely play together but i think there is more here. All in all i think the decision our FO made on him could be average not bad.

2. Vucevic is useful when he sets up others, i dont care about his inefficient offense, but with motivation to pass he is really good.

3.We have chance to win when Simmons has good days which shows what type of player we need- someone who can shoot a 3, drive and pass or score from there. Its so simple but we tend to forget about it when we dream about Isaac, Gordon, Vucevic lineup. It ends with passing on the perimeter and shooting long 3 at the end of the shot clock. players in the draft to watch for? Doncic, Miles Bridges, maybe Mikal Bridges and Porter.

4.What we get from our occasional wins right now ? We drop in the draft that is BAD. Players i like will be avaible outside top 5 which is GOOD. We build some trust in coaching stuff which is GOOD for progresion of young guys(we have many). We increase value of our veterans, Simmons and Augustin could be worth something at the end of the season(i know its less valuable than higher draft pick but these things add up) We show potential veterans it could be worth for their carrers to come here GOOD. ( i like IT and Teodosic this year if we cant get Trae). If a draft has some generational talent all good things can be silly in comparison to draft position but i dont think its the case this year.

5. Isaac is very far away from being ready offensively. I dont agree with Vogel who is hyping him right now as a elite defensive player. Why put so much pressure on him? Let him develop slowly. Right now i cant see a scenario where Isaac is offensive initiator. Realistically he can be a secondary initiator who spaces the floor and makes occasional good pass. PF or C in old positions for me.

Last thing i want to point out is we need someone with talent AND character. We have bunch of scared or all the time smiling guys. I get the unselfish basketball thing but dont get extreme. We need someone with fire like Doncic, Young, Isaiah Thomas or we can start a restaurant not a winning basketball club

[Optimus_Steel]

I'm positive that this dreadful season is almost over.

[zaymon]

Yeah it is a positive too. Its really hard these days to stay positive.