Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel

[Xatticus]

I don't need an article to figure out what happened. You don't go from basically being a tank commander, to desperately trying to make the playoffs, in one offseason. Rob was pushed into trying to make the playoffs, when he had stated multiple time it was always his intention to grow internally and build through the draft. Did he just magically change his mind and abandon his entire philosophy so that he could grab game changers like Serge Ibaka and Bizmack Biyumbo? Yea, there is no proof. But it seems fairly obvious to me.

I would expect that Hennigan was responsible for some of the pressure piled upon him to turn things around quickly. I really doubt that RDV or Martins were amenable to a protracted rebuild. I would expect that Hennigan put forward an optimistic timetable during the interview process that he didn't prove capable of delivering upon.

I think there is plenty of blame to go around and it's really not necessary to take sides at this point. Regardless of how we assign the blame, Hennigan had run his course and we needed to move on. I'd be happier if Martins was gone as well, but I'll settle for him being uninvolved.

[Nyce_1]

I remember at the time, 90% of the board loved the Vogel hire

I was a big fan of the hire but because I thought our GM was actually making the hire; not greasy dumbass.

**** you Alex Martins.

[Nemesis21]

I don't need an article to figure out what happened. You don't go from basically being a tank commander, to desperately trying to make the playoffs, in one offseason. Rob was pushed into trying to make the playoffs, when he had stated multiple time it was always his intention to grow internally and build through the draft. Did he just magically change his mind and abandon his entire philosophy so that he could grab game changers like Serge Ibaka and Bizmack Biyumbo? Yea, there is no proof. But it seems fairly obvious to me.

I would expect that Hennigan was responsible for some of the pressure piled upon him to turn things around quickly. I really doubt that RDV or Martins were amenable to a protracted rebuild. I would expect that Hennigan put forward an optimistic timetable during the interview process that he didn't prove capable of delivering upon.

I think there is plenty of blame to go around and it's really not necessary to take sides at this point. Regardless of how we assign the blame, Hennigan had run his course and we needed to move on. I'd be happier if Martins was gone as well, but I'll settle for him being uninvolved.

That's there damn fault if they weren't open to a long rebuild. We just lost our star player in Dwight. Hedo and Lewis were gone. After Dwight trade our roster was barely recognizable outside of Big Baby and Afflalo. We're not the Cleveland Cavs, getting gifted three 1st round picks in the 4 years Lebron was gone.
Everyone knew the rebuild would take a long time. If they didn't know that is on them. You also can't rush a rebuild. Rob had a plan to rebuild and do it though the draft and not spend a ton of money on FAs. He wanted to draft and develop players. Once we got Oladipo, RDV and Martins started preaching win now and playoffs. That's when they pressure of win now started.

[NickAnderson]

So a guy gets his first and maybe last NBA GM job ever and you want him to step down from it just to make a statement against the Magic's President?

This type of delusion is why there is so much negative toxicity on this forum.

Amen


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[MagicFan4Lyfe]

I don't need an article to figure out what happened. You don't go from basically being a tank commander, to desperately trying to make the playoffs, in one offseason. Rob was pushed into trying to make the playoffs, when he had stated multiple time it was always his intention to grow internally and build through the draft. Did he just magically change his mind and abandon his entire philosophy so that he could grab game changers like Serge Ibaka and Bizmack Biyumbo? Yea, there is no proof. But it seems fairly obvious to me.

I would expect that Hennigan was responsible for some of the pressure piled upon him to turn things around quickly. I really doubt that RDV or Martins were amenable to a protracted rebuild. I would expect that Hennigan put forward an optimistic timetable during the interview process that he didn't prove capable of delivering upon.

I think there is plenty of blame to go around and it's really not necessary to take sides at this point. Regardless of how we assign the blame, Hennigan had run his course and we needed to move on. I'd be happier if Martins was gone as well, but I'll settle for him being uninvolved.

That's there damn fault if they weren't open to a long rebuild. We just lost our star player in Dwight. Hedo and Lewis were gone. After Dwight trade our roster was barely recognizable outside of Big Baby and Afflalo. We're not the Cleveland Cavs, getting gifted three 1st round picks in the 4 years Lebron was gone.
Everyone knew the rebuild would take a long time. If they didn't know that is on them. You also can't rush a rebuild. Rob had a plan to rebuild and do it though the draft and not spend a ton of money on FAs. He wanted to draft and develop players. Once we got Oladipo, RDV and Martins started preaching win now and playoffs. That's when they pressure of win now started.

I think RDV and Martins started pushing for the playoffs after the 2014 draft once we drafted AG and EP. They figured with 3 lottery picks we would be able to rekindle the Shaq/ Penny days very quickly. Little did they realize that it would take longer for Dipo to develop and that EP was garbage.

[fendilim]

This thread is fun to read
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1444571

[SOUL]

This thread is fun to read
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1444571

I was very pro-Vogel, and got disappointed about 3-4 months into his tenure.

To be fair, I did assume he would have Oladipo as a weapon to use.. then we traded Dipo.

[PennytoShaq]

Same. I was excited about Vogel.

But a lot of things happened that red flagged for me. The first was getting Ibaka and Biz and not trading Vuc. Than Frank saying he'd play 2 of them next to each other all the time. That was disturbing.

[fendilim]

This thread is fun to read
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1444571

I was very pro-Vogel, and got disappointed about 3-4 months into his tenure.

To be fair, I did assume he would have Oladipo as a weapon to use.. then we traded Dipo.

honestly vogel was an interesting hire. a proven coach at that time. but of course, situation is different, we dont have a superstar.

[Furinkazan]

ha lol my stance hasnt changed

Re: Magic to reach out to Vogel... who is rumored to already be in flight to Orlando

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Post#113 » by ~Snoopy~ » Sat May 14, 2016 10:45 pm
hopefully wont happen
I want us to hire Messina

[fendilim]

ha lol my stance hasnt changed

Re: Magic to reach out to Vogel... who is rumored to already be in flight to Orlando

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Post#113 » by ~Snoopy~ » Sat May 14, 2016 10:45 pm
hopefully wont happen
I want us to hire Messina

Yes, mine too. Still the same problem since two years ago, we need a structured offense to help us with our lack of real go-to scorers. Messina, and now Nurse, do have expertise in that.

[j-ragg]

This thread is fun to read
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1444571

I think it's a lucrative opening. Better than Houston or NY. Porzingis is great but with ownership and Melo's deal I don't think they know which way they want to go. And I wouldn't want to coach Harden or attempt to build a team around him.

What an idiot thinking the Orlando Magic head coach position is more lucrative than Houston's.

[JF5]

Its pretty obvious that Henngan was strong armed... Though he is to blame to some degree for the Vic/Sabonis trade and Harris trade it was obvious that the Front office had been pushing for playoffs after the 3rd year of the rebuild. He made it clear even when to the day he was fired that he wanted this team to continually build through the draft. And that sort of vision takes time to build obviously as you seen teams like Boston/Sixers/Timberwolves emulate the process.

I said this in a prior thread... Hennigan as GM didn't fit what Devos/Martins wanted (Which was a quick turnaround after Dwight). And ultimately he was a poor hire by the regime. They should've got a GM with more experience who had the ability to convert their vision of the roster.

Also, why is Hennigan to blame for not standing up to Martins?

First, he's a 1st time 30-Year Old GM with no experience in dealing with upper management in that capacity. So of course he's gonna struggle in that aspect and make mistakes. That's why he's more a of a long term GM you put time into rather than a quick turn around GM who can get you semi-competitive within several seasons.

Second, if you don't do what your boss tells you to do you're going to get fired. So regardless if it was Mitch Kupchak or Jerry West caliber GM, its Martins decision or of Martins influence on any basketball decision. So lets not act like that would've changed with anyone else.

Ultimately, I think Martins has hopefully learned his lesson when it comes to meddling in the basketball portion of the organization. He should have little to no influence when it comes to those decisions.