Steve Clifford has agreed to a four-year contract to become the new head coach of the Orlando Magic

[tiderulz]

As sad as it is Vucevic high skill level has no reflection in his value which is close to zero. Its better to try to win with him than trade him for peanuts. I have no respect for Vogel offensive schemes so there is great chance Vucevic will shine offensively and we will have to live with defense.

stop triggering me

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we tried that **** for the past few years
I mean to build around Vuc
enough is enough

and yeah Id trade him for peanuts or even waive him thats how disgusted I am with him

How did we build around Vuc?

was Dipo not traded and Ibaka brought in to be that defensive player next to Vuc in the paint?

[OrlandO]

stop triggering me

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we tried that **** for the past few years
I mean to build around Vuc
enough is enough

and yeah Id trade him for peanuts or even waive him thats how disgusted I am with him

How did we build around Vuc?

was Dipo not traded and Ibaka brought in to be that defensive player next to Vuc in the paint?

And then went hard after Biyombo with a ridiculous contract on day 1 of free agency a week later? Trading Dipo/bringing in Ibaka had nothing to do with Vuc. You don't sign a replacement for a player you're supposedly trying to build around. If anything, the moves they made in a matter of months were build around EP/AG type of moves... getting rid of Frye/Harris to make room for AG, getting rid of a key offensive creator in Oladipo for a 3&D big who can't create for himself, replacing another key offensive player in Vuc with a defensive specialist C with no offense, signing a long-term backup PG. Way too much faith in EP/AG making huge leaps in their games that summer to think they could carry a team like that. "We're going to use AG like Paul George" and "Biyombo's a defensive beast" told us all we needed to know about their line of thinking that summer.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Yeah, Vuc is not gonna be cool with being a 6th man. Remember the hissy fit he had last time he got benched? Dude is very entitled. If he doesn't get moved before next season, Vuc will start.

The problem with Vuc is he hates coming off the bench. If we had a guy like that off the bench, it would be awesome, but this is a guy who openly pouts on the floor and publicly stated he would not come off the bench multiple times. If he was more open to a reduced role, I think he would be much valuable for us.

That's another reason why I find it hard that Vucevic stays in Orlando. I hope Clifford or any coach isn't compelled to start any player simply because player wants to. And I don't think he's that much of a cancer to the locker room if he were to come off the bench. But if that really is a concern, then he should be traded. It's not worth compromising the development of other players.

The circumstance has been Vuch has been the best 5 on the team. If a better 5 is brought in via the draft, FA, or trade then Vuch if still on the roster needs to be professional and perform the roll asked of him. I do think he is capable of excepting a bench role if there is a clearly better player added to the roster at the 5 position. The last time he was benched, he complained, but also was likely right that an inferior player was playing ahead of him.

I agree the bigger question is the one mentioned above, is the front office going to try a rolling rebuild or are we going to bottom out this year. Whether the veterans make it to the opening day roster will be the clear indication.

The fact that he was and is hands down the best 5 on the team when he was relegated to coming off the bench is the reason he showed displeasure. It was obvious the reason Biz was in the SL is because of his massive contract because it wasn’t because of his on court production.

People around here want to act high and mighty talking about “taking one for the team” but you know damn well they’d have the same reaction if a less talent person got a raise or promotion over them.

So we don’t actually know how he’d act if a better center is brought in, putting him on the bench because we haven’t actually had a better center on the team. If it happens and he still pouts then he can kick bricks.


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[PennytoShaq]

That's another reason why I find it hard that Vucevic stays in Orlando. I hope Clifford or any coach isn't compelled to start any player simply because player wants to. And I don't think he's that much of a cancer to the locker room if he were to come off the bench. But if that really is a concern, then he should be traded. It's not worth compromising the development of other players.

The circumstance has been Vuch has been the best 5 on the team. If a better 5 is brought in via the draft, FA, or trade then Vuch if still on the roster needs to be professional and perform the roll asked of him. I do think he is capable of excepting a bench role if there is a clearly better player added to the roster at the 5 position. The last time he was benched, he complained, but also was likely right that an inferior player was playing ahead of him.

I agree the bigger question is the one mentioned above, is the front office going to try a rolling rebuild or are we going to bottom out this year. Whether the veterans make it to the opening day roster will be the clear indication.

The fact that he was and is hands down the best 5 on the team when he was relegated to coming off the bench is the reason he showed displeasure. It was obvious the reason Biz was in the SL is because of his massive contract because it wasn’t because of his on court production.

People around here want to act high and mighty talking about “taking one for the team” but you know damn well they’d have the same reaction if a less talent person got a raise or promotion over them.

So we don’t actually know how he’d act if a better center is brought in, putting him on the bench because we haven’t actually had a better center on the team. If it happens and he still pouts then he can kick bricks.


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Having that reaction privately is fine. Immediately going to the press with that reaction the day after the signing is what raised the red flags.

[Furinkazan]

How did we build around Vuc?

was Dipo not traded and Ibaka brought in to be that defensive player next to Vuc in the paint?

And then went hard after Biyombo with a ridiculous contract on day 1 of free agency a week later? Trading Dipo/bringing in Ibaka had nothing to do with Vuc. You don't sign a replacement for a player you're supposedly trying to build around. If anything, the moves they made in a matter of months were build around EP/AG type of moves... getting rid of Frye/Harris to make room for AG, getting rid of a key offensive creator in Oladipo for a 3&D big who can't create for himself, replacing another key offensive player in Vuc with a defensive specialist C with no offense, signing a long-term backup PG. Way too much faith in EP/AG making huge leaps in their games that summer to think they could carry a team like that. "We're going to use AG like Paul George" and "Biyombo's a defensive beast" told us all we needed to know about their line of thinking that summer.

Ibaka was brought exactly BECAUSE of Vuc ...its not even debatable
even RH admit that back in that summer

still I meant more of his leader role...
"build around" was overkill of a statement on my part but I meant more in terms of our best player a leader a main scorer etc... if he is that person then automaticly it means in some lesser extent we are kind of building around him .....................and failing too...

[OrlandO]

was Dipo not traded and Ibaka brought in to be that defensive player next to Vuc in the paint?

And then went hard after Biyombo with a ridiculous contract on day 1 of free agency a week later? Trading Dipo/bringing in Ibaka had nothing to do with Vuc. You don't sign a replacement for a player you're supposedly trying to build around. If anything, the moves they made in a matter of months were build around EP/AG type of moves... getting rid of Frye/Harris to make room for AG, getting rid of a key offensive creator in Oladipo for a 3&D big who can't create for himself, replacing another key offensive player in Vuc with a defensive specialist C with no offense, signing a long-term backup PG. Way too much faith in EP/AG making huge leaps in their games that summer to think they could carry a team like that. "We're going to use AG like Paul George" and "Biyombo's a defensive beast" told us all we needed to know about their line of thinking that summer.

Ibaka was brought exactly BECAUSE of Vuc ...its not even debatable

Hennigan clearly wanted to team Ibaka with Biyombo, not Vuc. Biyombo's $70 million contract on day 1 of free agency is what makes this not debatable.

[Furinkazan]

And then went hard after Biyombo with a ridiculous contract on day 1 of free agency a week later? Trading Dipo/bringing in Ibaka had nothing to do with Vuc. You don't sign a replacement for a player you're supposedly trying to build around. If anything, the moves they made in a matter of months were build around EP/AG type of moves... getting rid of Frye/Harris to make room for AG, getting rid of a key offensive creator in Oladipo for a 3&D big who can't create for himself, replacing another key offensive player in Vuc with a defensive specialist C with no offense, signing a long-term backup PG. Way too much faith in EP/AG making huge leaps in their games that summer to think they could carry a team like that. "We're going to use AG like Paul George" and "Biyombo's a defensive beast" told us all we needed to know about their line of thinking that summer.

Ibaka was brought exactly BECAUSE of Vuc ...its not even debatable

Hennigan clearly wanted to team Ibaka with Biyombo, not Vuc. Biyombo's $70 million contract on day 1 of free agency is what makes this not debatable.

hows your tinfoil hat these days?
I have no problem with you beliving in spaghetti mosters too but it doesnt change facts.

[OrlandO]

Ibaka was brought exactly BECAUSE of Vuc ...its not even debatable

Hennigan clearly wanted to team Ibaka with Biyombo, not Vuc. Biyombo's $70 million contract on day 1 of free agency is what makes this not debatable.

hows your tinfoil hat these days?
I have no problem with you beliving in spaghetti mosters too but it doesnt change facts.

It is just common sense. We signed Vuc's replacement with a ridiculously overpaid contract on day 1 of free agency. We'd be the first team to build around a player we intended to bring off the bench. Next thing you're going to tell me is drafting projects year after year was also to "build around Vuc" .

[Furinkazan]

Hennigan clearly wanted to team Ibaka with Biyombo, not Vuc. Biyombo's $70 million contract on day 1 of free agency is what makes this not debatable.

hows your tinfoil hat these days?
I have no problem with you beliving in spaghetti mosters too but it doesnt change facts.

It is just common sense. We signed Vuc's replacement with a ridiculously overpaid contract on day 1 of free agency. We'd be the first team to build around a player we intended to bring off the bench. Next thing you're going to tell me is drafting projects year after year was also to "build around Vuc" .

Now you go even deeper with making stuff up so I will leave your artistic soul at peace and (stop going back and forth) so you can create more sci-fi we all love.

[OrlandO]

hows your tinfoil hat these days?
I have no problem with you beliving in spaghetti mosters too but it doesnt change facts.

It is just common sense. We signed Vuc's replacement with a ridiculously overpaid contract on day 1 of free agency. We'd be the first team to build around a player we intended to bring off the bench. Next thing you're going to tell me is drafting projects year after year was also to "build around Vuc" .

Now you go even deeper with making stuff up so I will leave your artistic soul at peace and (stop going back and forth) so you can create more sci-fi we all love.

Must be nice being able to pretend we never signed Bismack Biyombo as our highest paid player...

[tiderulz]

And then went hard after Biyombo with a ridiculous contract on day 1 of free agency a week later? Trading Dipo/bringing in Ibaka had nothing to do with Vuc. You don't sign a replacement for a player you're supposedly trying to build around. If anything, the moves they made in a matter of months were build around EP/AG type of moves... getting rid of Frye/Harris to make room for AG, getting rid of a key offensive creator in Oladipo for a 3&D big who can't create for himself, replacing another key offensive player in Vuc with a defensive specialist C with no offense, signing a long-term backup PG. Way too much faith in EP/AG making huge leaps in their games that summer to think they could carry a team like that. "We're going to use AG like Paul George" and "Biyombo's a defensive beast" told us all we needed to know about their line of thinking that summer.

Ibaka was brought exactly BECAUSE of Vuc ...its not even debatable

Hennigan clearly wanted to team Ibaka with Biyombo, not Vuc. Biyombo's $70 million contract on day 1 of free agency is what makes this not debatable.

pretty sure i thought it was Vogel that wanted Biyombo. And Bismack was someone that could also play PF, so didnt have to replace Vuc.

[rcklsscognition]

Martins sure is taking his time picking a lead assistant.

[thelead]

The facts are that Vuc has had a variety of players to win with and hasn't been able to do so. He gets to play buddy ball whenever he wants with Evan and that hasn't resulted in wins. He's played with Tobias, who has gone on to be an established starter, and couldn't get wins. He's played with Dipo and couldn't get wins. Sure, we signed Biyombo but he didn't get the starting nod... Vuc lost with Ibaka on his side.

I would defend Vuc if he could defend the damn paint but I'm over watching him letting PGs just stroll into the lane for a layup. I can't believe there isn't a defensive montage on youtube yet... He refuses to leave the big and stop the ball in the paint. I'm over it.

[OrlandO]

Ibaka was brought exactly BECAUSE of Vuc ...its not even debatable

Hennigan clearly wanted to team Ibaka with Biyombo, not Vuc. Biyombo's $70 million contract on day 1 of free agency is what makes this not debatable.

pretty sure i thought it was Vogel that wanted Biyombo. And Bismack was someone that could also play PF, so didnt have to replace Vuc.

Vogel wasn't in charge of dealing the contracts. Both Henny and Vogel were responsible for those disastrous moves. Vogel had a lot of success with a defensive starting frontcourt in Indy and Henny tried to replicate that for him in Orlando. "Defensive identity" was the theme of the off season. If they were making these moves with the intention of building around Vuc they would have immediately reassured him that he was still the starter and made that very clear to the media, but instead they kept things vague while hyping up the ibaka/biyombo pairing and then benched Vuc quickly into the season.

[WeAreVenom]

The facts are that Vuc has had a variety of players to win with and hasn't been able to do so. He gets to play buddy ball whenever he wants with Evan and that hasn't resulted in wins. He's played with Tobias, who has gone on to be an established starter, and couldn't get wins. He's played with Dipo and couldn't get wins. Sure, we signed Biyombo but he didn't get the starting nod... Vuc lost with Ibaka on his side.

I would defend Vuc if he could defend the damn paint but I'm over watching him letting PGs just stroll into the lane for a layup. I can't believe there isn't a defensive montage on youtube yet... He refuses to leave the big and stop the ball in the paint. I'm over it.

This pretty much sums up how I feel about Vuc, as well.

I know I criticize him a lot, so I won't continue to do so here........However, I feel that the Magic are in sore need of a culture change and Vuc is one of (if not THE) primary faces of the current culture. I wouldn't be mad at him staying, but I certainly wouldn't shed any tears if he were to leave either.

[Knightro]

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Interesting words here from Birch.

"They hold everybody accountable. You always have to be on your Ps and Qs. I love it. I'm always going to be looking straight forward. Last year was kind of up and down. This year I feel like it's always going to be consistent. He cuts you out for one mistake *laughs*, but he expects you to be on top of your game."