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Roster is set

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Re: Roster is set 

Post#61 » by Knightro » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:13 am

What I want to happen with Bamba and what I think is going to happen with Bamba are very different.

I want him to play as much as he can handle. If that’s just 15 minutes a night, so be it. If it’s 30 minutes a night, great.

But knowing what I know about Steve Clifford and my belief that they’re going to try and win as many games as possible this season, my expectation is that Vucevic starts and they bring Bamba along at a slowish pace that will likely frustrate many fans.

Isaac on the other hand, I think they Clifford might ride him hard given his defense and rebounding abilities.
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Re: Roster is set 

Post#62 » by p0peye » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:36 am

Knightro wrote:What I want to happen with Bamba and what I think is going to happen with Bamba are very different.

I want him to play as much as he can handle. If that’s just 15 minutes a night, so be it. If it’s 30 minutes a night, great.

But knowing what I know about Steve Clifford and my belief that they’re going to try and win as many games as possible this season, my expectation is that Vucevic starts and they bring Bamba along at a slowish pace that will likely frustrate many fans.

Isaac on the other hand, I think they Clifford might ride him hard given his defense and rebounding abilities.


Clifford running Isaac into the ground is my fear for this season.
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Re: Roster is set 

Post#63 » by axl_c_cool » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:41 am

The roster at the moment is very underwhelming, I’m hoping trades aren’t done and we move Fournier, Vucevic, and Augustine. I like Ross as a veteran around the team. Saying that I’d only want a young prospect or picks for an expiring, like the Carmelo deal mentioned, even future seconds. 1 more season developing, figuring out if/who can play SF out of Isaac and Gordon and clearing cap for the future


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Re: Roster is set 

Post#64 » by drsd » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:39 am

axl_c_cool wrote:The roster at the moment is very underwhelming, I’m hoping trades aren’t done and we move Fournier, Vucevic, and Augustine. I like Ross as a veteran around the team. Saying that I’d only want a young prospect or picks for an expiring, like the Carmelo deal mentioned, even future seconds. 1 more season developing, figuring out if/who can play SF out of Isaac and Gordon and clearing cap for the future


For me the season is for management to assess individual player growth. For example, as Gordon has a declining contract, ever year he becomes more tradeble if he does not emerge as a marginal All-star. Isaac being given minutes at three positions reveals the team is still trying to assess his roll. That Vučević is still a Magician reveals that the team wants Bamba in the weight room more than the trining court. That Augustin is a starting PG reveals the Magic plan on punting the season.


Right now the whole roster is about preparing for the 2019/20 season. If healthy the Magic could win 35 games. But as constructed I agree that at the very, very best, the current roster is marginal to make the playoffs.


That said: I would be happy with an overachieving 40-42 record leading to an #8 seed and being swept by Boston/Toronto.
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Re: Roster is set 

Post#65 » by Nemesis21 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:09 am

MagicStarwipe wrote:I don't see why we have to handle Bamba with kid gloves just because he's slim. Just because Isaac got hurt?

Kevin Garnett as a rookie played 28 mpg straight out of high school and was way skinnier than Bamba.



He even plays some centre here against the Bulls. And this was a MUCH more physical NBA than the one today. Just how many physical bruising C's are there even left anymore. Bamba should be at at least 25 mpg.


The difference is, KG's offense was way better and more consistent coming into the league than Bamba. Not a good comparison here.
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Re: Roster is set 

Post#66 » by Bigmagicfan82 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:38 pm

If Orlando is not competing for a playoff spot then I don't feel there should be any scenario where Bama, Isaac, and Gordon don't start from day one. Let them grow and learn together.

We need shipping Vuc off by no later than the trade deadline. He has no future with the Magic.

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Re: Roster is set 

Post#67 » by Instincts » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:58 pm

p0peye wrote:
Knightro wrote:What I want to happen with Bamba and what I think is going to happen with Bamba are very different.

I want him to play as much as he can handle. If that’s just 15 minutes a night, so be it. If it’s 30 minutes a night, great.

But knowing what I know about Steve Clifford and my belief that they’re going to try and win as many games as possible this season, my expectation is that Vucevic starts and they bring Bamba along at a slowish pace that will likely frustrate many fans.

Isaac on the other hand, I think they Clifford might ride him hard given his defense and rebounding abilities.


Clifford running Isaac into the ground is my fear for this season.

Clifford's teaching AG, Isaac, and Bamba the tricks of the trade is my excitement for this season.
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Re: Roster is set 

Post#68 » by MagicStarwipe » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:11 pm

Nemesis21 wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:I don't see why we have to handle Bamba with kid gloves just because he's slim. Just because Isaac got hurt?

Kevin Garnett as a rookie played 28 mpg straight out of high school and was way skinnier than Bamba.



He even plays some centre here against the Bulls. And this was a MUCH more physical NBA than the one today. Just how many physical bruising C's are there even left anymore. Bamba should be at at least 25 mpg.


The difference is, KG's offense was way better and more consistent coming into the league than Bamba. Not a good comparison here.

I'm specifically talking about their bodies, because for some reason people have this idea that Bamba's body wont hold up if he plays more than 20 minutes.
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Re: Roster is set 

Post#69 » by Def Swami » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:44 pm

MagicStarwipe wrote:I don't see why we have to handle Bamba with kid gloves just because he's slim. Just because Isaac got hurt?

Kevin Garnett as a rookie played 28 mpg straight out of high school and was way skinnier than Bamba.



He even plays some centre here against the Bulls. And this was a MUCH more physical NBA than the one today. Just how many physical bruising C's are there even left anymore. Bamba should be at at least 25 mpg.

I completely agree. There's no reason for Bamba to not play big minutes if he truly earns them, which I firmly believe he will.
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Re: Roster is set 

Post#70 » by Max Power » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:09 pm

I have to admit I’m disappointed to hear that this is it as far as our roster. Clearly the Magic organization doesn’t care about its fan base at the moment. I’d be excited for a completely different roster, lead by Bamba and Issac and Simmons etc. Even if they struggled to start. It’s part of growing a team from scratch.

Instead, the roster is a hybrid with the same problematic players we had before and still a big question mark at the Point. I like Vucevic, but I could see the need to move him to acquire a wing scorer and a point guard. Evan Fournier is just a stat grabber who will stunt the growth of the young guys in order to get his numbers. He needs to go as well.

So in that sense it’s been a disappointing offseason. My confidence in the Weltman and Hammond is not very high. However I am excited to see the growth of guys like Gordon and Issac. This team still needs a leader though. I honestly would love them to acquire Marcus Smart simply for having a player who’s got a fire in his belly.


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Re: Roster is set 

Post#71 » by Furinkazan » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:01 pm

Where is that wise guy who mocked me when I said roster is set after Biyombo trade.Still laughing?
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Re: Roster is set 

Post#72 » by Knightro » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:43 pm

Max Power wrote:I have to admit I’m disappointed to hear that this is it as far as our roster. Clearly the Magic organization doesn’t care about its fan base at the moment. I’d be excited for a completely different roster, lead by Bamba and Issac and Simmons etc. Even if they struggled to start. It’s part of growing a team from scratch.

Instead, the roster is a hybrid with the same problematic players we had before and still a big question mark at the Point. I like Vucevic, but I could see the need to move him to acquire a wing scorer and a point guard. Evan Fournier is just a stat grabber who will stunt the growth of the young guys in order to get his numbers. He needs to go as well.

So in that sense it’s been a disappointing offseason. My confidence in the Weltman and Hammond is not very high. However I am excited to see the growth of guys like Gordon and Issac. This team still needs a leader though. I honestly would love them to acquire Marcus Smart simply for having a player who’s got a fire in his belly.


Pretty much everything you're saying depends on how much you think injuries (and to a much lesser extent coaching) cost the team last year in terms of wins.

If you don't think injuries cost them that much, then you're probably feeling disappointed right now.

If you think injuries cost them a ton, then there's some reason for optimism.
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Re: Roster is set 

Post#73 » by Max Power » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:10 pm

That’s a fair point. I’ll go with the former. Simply because the Magic had a mini version of Skiles squad. Hot start only to crash to earth hard. Injuries didn’t help, but the team did eventually get back to close to full strength and never started winning again. The problem is the key cogs of this roster.


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Re: Roster is set 

Post#74 » by drsd » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:18 pm

I was a huge defender of Mr. trade-down going to this draft. I am generally happy with Bamba. But with how great Shai Gilgeous-Alexander has shown himself in the Summer league, is he the Mr. trade-down to be upset about?


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Re: Roster is set 

Post#75 » by yoyojw17 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:30 pm

drsd wrote:I was a huge defender of Mr. trade-down going to this draft. I am generally happy with Bamba. But with how great Shai Gilgeous-Alexander has shown himself in the Summer league, is he the Mr. trade-down to be upset about?


..

LOVE THE BAMBA PICK UP! But wished we could have acquired that second pick for SGA or Sexton
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Re: Roster is set 

Post#76 » by Knightro » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:31 pm

Max Power wrote:That’s a fair point. I’ll go with the former. Simply because the Magic had a mini version of Skiles squad. Hot start only to crash to earth hard. Injuries didn’t help, but the team did eventually get back to close to full strength and never started winning again. The problem is the key cogs of this roster.


I think you’d be surprised at that.

Fournier-Gordon-Vucevic only played 32 of 82 games together. That trio had a 1.2 net rating over 845 minutes.

Fournier and Vucevic only played 34 of 82 games together. That duo had a 2.8 net rating together.

Augustin-Fournier-Ross-Gordon-Vucevic had a 20.3 (!) net rating together, but were limited to only 8 games because of all the injuries.
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Re: Roster is set 

Post#77 » by NavalAviator94 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:19 pm

Max Power wrote:That’s a fair point. I’ll go with the former. Simply because the Magic had a mini version of Skiles squad. Hot start only to crash to earth hard. Injuries didn’t help, but the team did eventually get back to close to full strength and never started winning again. The problem is the key cogs of this roster.


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And the reason we never developed is because we lacked the right PG to lead this team. Skiles knew it and quit when Hennigan didn't agree.
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Re: Roster is set 

Post#78 » by Max Power » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:28 am

Valid point. I agree with you there wholeheartedly. Payton was an awful move by Hennigan. Gave up way too much. I’m not going to rag on the talent, because Vuc, Evan, and AG all have the individual talent. I’m still on the fence on whether they can truly lead this team where it wants to go. I’m hoped to be pleasantly surprised though.


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Re: Roster is set 

Post#79 » by Howard Mass » Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:44 am

The roster now stands at 17 with the signing of Braian Angola-Rodas
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Re: Roster is set 

Post#80 » by Bakomagic » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:48 am

Buddy Ball off the bench ?

DJ/Grant/Briscoe
Ross/Fournier
AG/Simmons
Isaac/J.Jackson
Bamba/Vuc/Birch

I don't love the idea of having a subpar defensive backcourt with Fournier and DJ, especially when the guy backing them up for rim protection is Vuc.

Plus, Buddy Ball would destroy most teams 2nd units and we'd have one of the leagues best scoring benches. Grant, Simmons, and Birch can provide the defense to supplement the Vuc, Fournier duo.

I understand that the young guys may not be ready for a starting role to start the season (Bamba Moreso than isaac). So maybe this lineup can be implemented the 2nd half of the season.

As far as fit goes, Vuc shot around 30 % from three last year, I feel like Bamba can atleast come close to matching that percentage, while providing better rim protection. Also I'd like to see him play with more talented ball handlers/passers. Watching him being missed on open threes and lobs was frustrating, while Vuc can score without necessarilybeing set up. Just throw him the ball and let him go to work. Should have his way with most backup bigs.

AG and Isaac both shoot around or slightly below average for forwards and I expect them to improve as they've shown the ability to improve already and are both noted as being the hardworking type.

Vuc and Fournier vs Bamba and Isaac somewhat comes down to Offense vs Defense, but Isaac and Bamba are still improving their shooting whereas Vuc and Fournier are unlikely to improve defensively all of a sudden.

Not sure they'd "buy in" but it may be better for the team.

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