[Woj] Jarell Martin and ($) to Orlando for Dakari Johnson

[NavalAviator94]

Maybe this means they are comfortable with AG and J.I. on the court at the same time?

It appears that way, also Ross and Simmons will fill in the rest I suppose, or playing Evan out of position again. We could grasp for straws and be excited about this move, although it does seem solid on some small level, but its been a very weak offseason. To add from last year, Grant, Briscoe, Moz, and now Martin outside of our draft pick, its just such weak sauce. Its so uninspiring. I mean really, couldn't any one of us add more talent to this team than that. I like Bamba, and getting Isaac back healthy is a definite plus, but free agency has been disastrous imo.

Unproven young guys at the end of their current deals or who aren't guaranteed beyond the season. Swapped Biz for Mozgov who they can DNP unless there's injury. They're punting the season to regain cap space while getting another good lottery pick. I'm ok with this, but they better have a plan to start building a real team next summer.

I'm with you here. In the Micro I can understand anyone looking at FA and being upset that we didn't acquire game changing talent but that's a glass half full. Our young guys are going to get lots of minutes to play and mature. Many of our guys are expiring or may not have their options picked up. I like those kind of guys too because they are going to play hard going into a FA summer where there will be a lot more money but more importantly an opportunity to continue their career. Some guys need humbled. Just look at Oladipo(in the extreme.) That kid put in the work to get better and it's paying off.

We'll have a max money slot going into next year and significantly more dollars in 20. We'll also likely have a lottery pick and I suspect injuries will determine where that lands. There's a lot of levers at play this year that will make it fun to watch not just the magic but the entire league.

[Howard Mass]

If The Magic keep Jarell Martin and it appears they will, they need to make a move with one of their centers as The Magic could use another veteran swingman or a better point guard for the 15th roster spot.

Martin is a nice pickup.

Tyler Harvey was never going to make the roster so no loss there.

Nice knowing you Dakari Johnson.

Reminds me of the trade binge John Gabriel went on in 03-04 to get better second round picks before he was let go.

Better PG? Kemba Walker?

I do not think we need him anymore...

Probably not a Kemba Walker type but maybe a regular starter.

[drsd]

I believe he gets paid full amount, but our cap hit is reduced for the amount paid by Memphis.

As Orlando was only on the books for 1M (stretched to 300k a year), and his salary is now more than 1M, than that would wipe clear all cap commitments. I do not believe that is what is occurring here.


..

[spinedoc]

It appears that way, also Ross and Simmons will fill in the rest I suppose, or playing Evan out of position again. We could grasp for straws and be excited about this move, although it does seem solid on some small level, but its been a very weak offseason. To add from last year, Grant, Briscoe, Moz, and now Martin outside of our draft pick, its just such weak sauce. Its so uninspiring. I mean really, couldn't any one of us add more talent to this team than that. I like Bamba, and getting Isaac back healthy is a definite plus, but free agency has been disastrous imo.

Unproven young guys at the end of their current deals or who aren't guaranteed beyond the season. Swapped Biz for Mozgov who they can DNP unless there's injury. They're punting the season to regain cap space while getting another good lottery pick. I'm ok with this, but they better have a plan to start building a real team next summer.

I'm with you here. In the Micro I can understand anyone looking at FA and being upset that we didn't acquire game changing talent but that's a glass half full. Our young guys are going to get lots of minutes to play and mature. Many of our guys are expiring or may not have their options picked up. I like those kind of guys too because they are going to play hard going into a FA summer where there will be a lot more money but more importantly an opportunity to continue their career. Some guys need humbled. Just look at Oladipo(in the extreme.) That kid put in the work to get better and it's paying off.

We'll have a max money slot going into next year and significantly more dollars in 20. We'll also likely have a lottery pick and I suspect injuries will determine where that lands. There's a lot of levers at play this year that will make it fun to watch not just the magic but the entire league.

Sure, I get the notion of cap flexibility. I've preached it many times before, but we can do both. Meaning, adding talent and saving for free agency. We created nothing in the Biz for Moz trade other than a marginally talented backup pg. We could have taken on salary in another deal for an upside talent reach, and saved for a potential max guy. I'm not sure who will come other than a player that we would have to overpay for anyway. The only way to get a genuine stud to come to Orlando is to get two of them. Two guys wanting to pair up and need a destination is the only way, and that's a two year plan anyway. In the meantime, we can scout for those players not playing up to their contracts but who we know still has a lot of upside. We have three future starters to find still, not one.

[NavalAviator94]

Unproven young guys at the end of their current deals or who aren't guaranteed beyond the season. Swapped Biz for Mozgov who they can DNP unless there's injury. They're punting the season to regain cap space while getting another good lottery pick. I'm ok with this, but they better have a plan to start building a real team next summer.

I'm with you here. In the Micro I can understand anyone looking at FA and being upset that we didn't acquire game changing talent but that's a glass half full. Our young guys are going to get lots of minutes to play and mature. Many of our guys are expiring or may not have their options picked up. I like those kind of guys too because they are going to play hard going into a FA summer where there will be a lot more money but more importantly an opportunity to continue their career. Some guys need humbled. Just look at Oladipo(in the extreme.) That kid put in the work to get better and it's paying off.

We'll have a max money slot going into next year and significantly more dollars in 20. We'll also likely have a lottery pick and I suspect injuries will determine where that lands. There's a lot of levers at play this year that will make it fun to watch not just the magic but the entire league.

Sure, I get the notion of cap flexibility. I've preached it many times before, but we can do both. Meaning, adding talent and saving for free agency. We created nothing in the Biz for Moz trade other than a marginally talented backup pg. We could have taken on salary in another deal for an upside talent reach, and saved for a potential max guy. I'm not sure who will come other than a player that we would have to overpay for anyway. The only way to get a genuine stud to come to Orlando is to get two of them. Two guys wanting to pair up and need a destination is the only way, and that's a two year plan anyway. In the meantime, we can scout for those players not playing up to their contracts but who we know still has a lot of upside. We have three future starters to find still, not one.

A few things.

First - I'm hopeful AG, Isaac and Bamba really show us something special. If we have a max slot and I'm a PG, I'm looking at 3 guys that I can throw the a oop to and will be there to back me up if a guard blows by. I'm also looking at a team that will have even more space in 20 and quite honestly, some nice depth.

A couple of honest q's:

- You say we need 3 future starters? PG/SG and what? Are you thinking AG is moved so Isaac can play the 4? Very possible but we won't know that until we see what these guys can do together this year.

- Regarding your comment on FA. I get it, that's what every GM needs to do in a vacuum. There's a strategic side to this we can see and a larger part we can't. What we can see is they've put us in a place where our young guys WILL play and develop. We have enough expirings for a max contract next year. Can you give me an example of a trade or situation you think we should have done? I'm sure they tried but it just wasn't there or we were incurring more salary for an ok player that would eliminate us from achieving max space next year.

This is just one of those situations where you need restraint and patience which is not in my DNA and surely not yours. It's easy for me to sit here and say that because I likely would have made a stupid trade if I was the actual GM over the last year.

[yoyojw17]

I'm with you here. In the Micro I can understand anyone looking at FA and being upset that we didn't acquire game changing talent but that's a glass half full. Our young guys are going to get lots of minutes to play and mature. Many of our guys are expiring or may not have their options picked up. I like those kind of guys too because they are going to play hard going into a FA summer where there will be a lot more money but more importantly an opportunity to continue their career. Some guys need humbled. Just look at Oladipo(in the extreme.) That kid put in the work to get better and it's paying off.

We'll have a max money slot going into next year and significantly more dollars in 20. We'll also likely have a lottery pick and I suspect injuries will determine where that lands. There's a lot of levers at play this year that will make it fun to watch not just the magic but the entire league.

Sure, I get the notion of cap flexibility. I've preached it many times before, but we can do both. Meaning, adding talent and saving for free agency. We created nothing in the Biz for Moz trade other than a marginally talented backup pg. We could have taken on salary in another deal for an upside talent reach, and saved for a potential max guy. I'm not sure who will come other than a player that we would have to overpay for anyway. The only way to get a genuine stud to come to Orlando is to get two of them. Two guys wanting to pair up and need a destination is the only way, and that's a two year plan anyway. In the meantime, we can scout for those players not playing up to their contracts but who we know still has a lot of upside. We have three future starters to find still, not one.

A few things.

First - I'm hopeful AG, Isaac and Bamba really show us something special. If we have a max slot and I'm a PG, I'm looking at 3 guys that I can throw the a oop to and will be there to back me up if a guard blows by. I'm also looking at a team that will have even more space in 20 and quite honestly, some nice depth.

A couple of honest q's:

- You say we need 3 future starters? PG/SG and what? Are you thinking AG is moved so Isaac can play the 4? Very possible but we won't know that until we see what these guys can do together this year.

- Regarding your comment on FA. I get it, that's what every GM needs to do in a vacuum. There's a strategic side to this we can see and a larger part we can't. What we can see is they've put us in a place where our young guys WILL play and develop. We have enough expirings for a max contract next year. Can you give me an example of a trade or situation you think we should have done? I'm sure they tried but it just wasn't there or we were incurring more salary for an ok player that would eliminate us from achieving max space next year.

This is just one of those situations where you need restraint and patience which is not in my DNA and surely not yours. It's easy for me to sit here and say that because I likely would have made a stupid trade if I was the actual GM over the last year.

Gordon, Isaac and Bamba can easily turn into a very unique combination of players if they hit the potential levels that i believe they can in their primes. And if they do so.... i love the notion of fournier still being here.... and if gordon doesn't mexh with isaac and bamba (yes.... i have the utmost confident in them as a duo)... you trade him and his reasonably great contract for a complimentary piece (PG or SF) and using the remaining capspace to fill in the other position. But I really hope that "BIG" is the key to a new jump for both the team and shoot..... even the league. But... we shall see!

[spinedoc]

I'm with you here. In the Micro I can understand anyone looking at FA and being upset that we didn't acquire game changing talent but that's a glass half full. Our young guys are going to get lots of minutes to play and mature. Many of our guys are expiring or may not have their options picked up. I like those kind of guys too because they are going to play hard going into a FA summer where there will be a lot more money but more importantly an opportunity to continue their career. Some guys need humbled. Just look at Oladipo(in the extreme.) That kid put in the work to get better and it's paying off.

We'll have a max money slot going into next year and significantly more dollars in 20. We'll also likely have a lottery pick and I suspect injuries will determine where that lands. There's a lot of levers at play this year that will make it fun to watch not just the magic but the entire league.

Sure, I get the notion of cap flexibility. I've preached it many times before, but we can do both. Meaning, adding talent and saving for free agency. We created nothing in the Biz for Moz trade other than a marginally talented backup pg. We could have taken on salary in another deal for an upside talent reach, and saved for a potential max guy. I'm not sure who will come other than a player that we would have to overpay for anyway. The only way to get a genuine stud to come to Orlando is to get two of them. Two guys wanting to pair up and need a destination is the only way, and that's a two year plan anyway. In the meantime, we can scout for those players not playing up to their contracts but who we know still has a lot of upside. We have three future starters to find still, not one.

A few things.

First - I'm hopeful AG, Isaac and Bamba really show us something special. If we have a max slot and I'm a PG, I'm looking at 3 guys that I can throw the a oop to and will be there to back me up if a guard blows by. I'm also looking at a team that will have even more space in 20 and quite honestly, some nice depth.

A couple of honest q's:

- You say we need 3 future starters? PG/SG and what? Are you thinking AG is moved so Isaac can play the 4? Very possible but we won't know that until we see what these guys can do together this year.

- Regarding your comment on FA. I get it, that's what every GM needs to do in a vacuum. There's a strategic side to this we can see and a larger part we can't. What we can see is they've put us in a place where our young guys WILL play and develop. We have enough expirings for a max contract next year. Can you give me an example of a trade or situation you think we should have done? I'm sure they tried but it just wasn't there or we were incurring more salary for an ok player that would eliminate us from achieving max space next year.

This is just one of those situations where you need restraint and patience which is not in my DNA and surely not yours. It's easy for me to sit here and say that because I likely would have made a stupid trade if I was the actual GM over the last year.

Yeah, I'm skeptical of AG and Isaac coexisting together. I'm not sure they can switch effectively to cover each others weaknesses, or squander their strengths. If we keep AG, I see it as a really nice three man rotation much like, McHale, Chief, Bird, or, Laimbeer, Salley, Rodman, or Daughtery, Williams, and Nance. Or, we use him to ply another starter from someone else ala, Kawhi, Derozan, Lillard, McCollum, Wiggins, Kemba, etc. We should have been checking in on all those situations, I would have used AG for anyone of that caliber. There were others that I felt were available for expirings and fillers that would have made us better as well. We could have still been far enough under the cap to still get a decent player next summer, and even more two years from now. I'm going to be watching for the development of our young bigs, but its going to be obvious that we'll need a trade at the deadline. Plus, so many teams have cap space next year, what exactly are we looking to acquire that's realistic? I don't know.

[p0peye]

I believe he gets paid full amount, but our cap hit is reduced for the amount paid by Memphis.

As Orlando was only on the books for 1M (stretched to 300k a year), and his salary is now more than 1M, than that would wipe clear all cap commitments. I do not believe that is what is occurring here.


..

You are correct, as it is a bit more complicated and ammount is not the full amount of salary with new team for the season.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q65

If another team signs a player who has cleared waivers, the player's original team is allowed to reduce the amount of money it still owes the player (and lower their team salary2) by a commensurate amount. This is called the right of set-off. This is true if the player signs with any professional team -- it does not have to be an NBA team. The amount the original team gets to set off is limited to one-half the difference between the player's new salary and the minimum salary for a one-year veteran during the season in which the player is waived (if the player is a rookie, then the rookie minimum is used instead).

For example, suppose a fifth-year player is waived with one guaranteed season remaining on his contract for $5 million. If this player signs a $2 million contract with another team for the 2017-18 season, his original team gets to set off $2 million minus $1,312,611 (the minimum salary for a one-year veteran in 2017-18), divided by two, or $343,694. The team is still responsible for paying $4,656,306 of the original $5 million. Note that between his prior team and new team the player will earn a combined $6,656,306, which was more than he earned prior to being waived.

If a player has been waived and his salary has been stretched, his salary can be set-off only during the original term of the contract. For example, suppose a player is signed for 2017-18 and 2018-19, and he is waived during the 2017-18 season, with his 2018-19 salary stretched across 2018-19, 2019-20 and 2020-21. If the player signs with another team, only his 2017-18 and/or 2018-19 salary can be set off.

Teams and players may negotiate a waiver of the team's set-off rights. Typically this is done when a contract is altered as part of a buyout (see question number 66), but not at other times.

Provided that we didn't waive our set-off rights, and considering that we stretched Mack's remaining 1M, there's only $333,333 for 2018/19 season that we can hope to reduce.

If Mack has signed veteran's minimum contract that would amount to $2,029,463, meaning we could hope to set-off half of difference between that salary and 1 year vet min. That comes to ($$2,029,463 - $1,349,383) / 2 = $340,040.

Basically it would practically wipe clear Mack's cap hit for next season, but our cap for remaining two season's after that would be impacted.

[The Real Dalic]

If The Magic keep Jarell Martin and it appears they will, they need to make a move with one of their centers as The Magic could use another veteran swingman or a better point guard for the 15th roster spot.

Martin is a nice pickup.

Tyler Harvey was never going to make the roster so no loss there.

Nice knowing you Dakari Johnson.

Reminds me of the trade binge John Gabriel went on in 03-04 to get better second round picks before he was let go.

Better PG? Kemba Walker?

I do not think we need him anymore...

Probably not a Kemba Walker type but maybe a regular starter.

I still think Kemba Walker will be wearing a Magic Jersey before the start of next season. I hope so. He just seems like our kinda guy who's not chasing bright lights and we have some people with ties to him.

[Howard Mass]

Better PG? Kemba Walker?

I do not think we need him anymore...

Probably not a Kemba Walker type but maybe a regular starter.

I still think Kemba Walker will be wearing a Magic Jersey before the start of next season. I hope so. He just seems like our kinda guy who's not chasing bright lights and we have some people with ties to him.

He seems to be the dream for a lot of fans.

We shall see.

[p0peye]

I believe he gets paid full amount, but our cap hit is reduced for the amount paid by Memphis.

As Orlando was only on the books for 1M (stretched to 300k a year), and his salary is now more than 1M, than that would wipe clear all cap commitments. I do not believe that is what is occurring here.


..

You are correct, as it is a bit more complicated and ammount is not the full amount of salary with new team for the season.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q65

If another team signs a player who has cleared waivers, the player's original team is allowed to reduce the amount of money it still owes the player (and lower their team salary2) by a commensurate amount. This is called the right of set-off. This is true if the player signs with any professional team -- it does not have to be an NBA team. The amount the original team gets to set off is limited to one-half the difference between the player's new salary and the minimum salary for a one-year veteran during the season in which the player is waived (if the player is a rookie, then the rookie minimum is used instead).

For example, suppose a fifth-year player is waived with one guaranteed season remaining on his contract for $5 million. If this player signs a $2 million contract with another team for the 2017-18 season, his original team gets to set off $2 million minus $1,312,611 (the minimum salary for a one-year veteran in 2017-18), divided by two, or $343,694. The team is still responsible for paying $4,656,306 of the original $5 million. Note that between his prior team and new team the player will earn a combined $6,656,306, which was more than he earned prior to being waived.

If a player has been waived and his salary has been stretched, his salary can be set-off only during the original term of the contract. For example, suppose a player is signed for 2017-18 and 2018-19, and he is waived during the 2017-18 season, with his 2018-19 salary stretched across 2018-19, 2019-20 and 2020-21. If the player signs with another team, only his 2017-18 and/or 2018-19 salary can be set off.

Teams and players may negotiate a waiver of the team's set-off rights. Typically this is done when a contract is altered as part of a buyout (see question number 66), but not at other times.

Provided that we didn't waive our set-off rights, and considering that we stretched Mack's remaining 1M, there's only $333,333 for 2018/19 season that we can hope to reduce.

If Mack has signed veteran's minimum contract that would amount to $2,029,463, meaning we could hope to set-off half of difference between that salary and 1 year vet min. That comes to ($$2,029,463 - $1,349,383) / 2 = $340,040.

Basically it would practically wipe clear Mack's cap hit for next season, but our cap for remaining two season's after that would be impacted.

Bobby Marks got pretty similar, though a tiny bit different figure ($358,000), not sure about his math (maybe Mack's contract might be a few bucks more than minimum):

Read on Twitter

[The Real Dalic]

Probably not a Kemba Walker type but maybe a regular starter.

I still think Kemba Walker will be wearing a Magic Jersey before the start of next season. I hope so. He just seems like our kinda guy who's not chasing bright lights and we have some people with ties to him.

He seems to be the dream for a lot of fans.

We shall see.

Adding Kemba to the lineup looks really nice for the future. Our starting lineup with him if we get him through free agency could be:

PG: Walker
SG: Fournier
SF: Isaac/Gordon
PF: Gordon/Isaac
C: Bamba/Vuc

That's a pretty decent lineup with few holes.

[drsd]

PG: Walker
SG: Fournier
SF: Isaac/Gordon
PF: Gordon/Isaac
C: Bamba/Vuc

That's a pretty decent lineup with few holes.

To sign Walker, Orlando would need to let Vučević, Martin, and Ross expire and not be resigned, and perhaps also trade Augustin for a low asset (protected 2nd pick, for example).

The 2019/20 roster could look like:
Walker/Briscoe/Caupain
Fournier/Simmons/LLE vet
Isaac/Frazier/LLE vet
Gordon/1st round draft choice/LLE vet
Bamba/Birch/Mozgov


This looks like a playoff team to me.


..

[NavalAviator94]

PG: Walker
SG: Fournier
SF: Isaac/Gordon
PF: Gordon/Isaac
C: Bamba/Vuc

That's a pretty decent lineup with few holes.

To sign Walker, Orlando would need to let Vučević, Martin, and Ross expire and not be resigned, and perhaps also trade Augustin for a low asset (protected 2nd pick, for example).

The 2019/20 roster could look like:
Walker/Briscoe/Caupain
Fournier/Simmons/LLE vet
Isaac/Frazier/LLE vet
Gordon/1st round draft choice/LLE vet
Bamba/Birch/Mozgov


This looks like a playoff team to me.


..

Can't they waive (is that the right term?) Vuc as an example, remove the cap hold and resign him with one of the exceptions once they've gone over?

[drsd]

Can't they waive (is that the right term?) Vuc as an example, remove the cap hold and resign him with one of the exceptions once they've gone over?

Vučević (and Ross) is off the books anyhow. No need to think about waiving.


..

[NavalAviator94]

Can't they waive (is that the right term?) Vuc as an example, remove the cap hold and resign him with one of the exceptions once they've gone over?

Vučević (and Ross) is off the books anyhow. No need to think about waiving.


..

Yes but I believe they still represent a cap hold which precludes us from getting max space right? Essentially you waive their rights, remove the hold, gain the full space and then resign those players either into left over space or if over - the exception. However, I think what we can spend on them is limited because we are essentially waiving their bird rights. It's been a while since I've looked this up and uncertain if the new agreement changed anything.

[PrimeThyme]

The one interesting thing about this trade for me is that in an article that Woj wrote he said that Martin would play a bench role behind Isaac and AG. I could be reading to far into it, but my hope is that this means that they plan to start AG and Isaac next to each other.

I honestly feel like that would be in our best interests all around. Isaac would help to set the tone on the defensive end while getting development time next to AG, and a bench lineup of Grant/Simmons/Ross/Martins/Bamba could actually be quite effective imo. A much better bench unit then we had last year.


If we start the season with the same SL we had last year I might be sick.