Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (1-1) at Miami Heat (0-3)

[OrlChamps2030]

Thanks for the analysis PennytoShaq.

I’ve been all aboard the trade Vuc wagon for a while but I honestly believe his value is nowhere near making a trade worthwhile. I keep saying it but look at Greg Monroe last year - he was waived because the Suns couldn’t find a taker and they were asking for next to nothing.

If he’s traded at all, I think it will be for a second round pick similar to Payton at last year’s deadline.

Agreed. I bet Vuc gets dumped this season for expirings or a 2nd/bs pick that will never convey a la Monroe

[pepe1991]

I immediately started watching RJ Barrett highlights after this game.

i started watching his plays in April

[Nemesis21]

I immediately started watching RJ Barrett highlights after this game.

i started watching his plays in April

Both of you, don't get your hopes up. This organization will find a way to not get a top 3-5 pick. 6-8 range once again. WeHam only drafts length. So you are looking at Bol Bol(Think Rik Smits) 7'2" , 7'8" wingspan, Sekou Doumbouya(Think Jabari Parker) 6'9" , 6'11" wingspan, Jontay Porter(Think Markieff Morris) 6'11" , 7" wingspan, Charles Bassey(Think Clint Capela) 6'11" , 7'3" winspan, Daniel Gafford(Think Marcus Camby) 6'11" , 7'2" wingspan, Nazeron Reid(Think Al Jefferson) 6'10" , 7'2" wingspan

[Blue_and_Whte]

Gordon was trash. Olynyk burned him a couple of times and just seemed to pout until finally picking it up in the 3Q. He did have a few good defensive plays which was encouraging and a couple of nice 3's but overall largely underwhelming.

Outside of the bad inbound pass, Nik carried us as always especially since nobody could score. keeping us in the game with his passing and scoring, all while keeping Whiteside at bay by staying in contact with him and preventing those drive and lobs they like to run, and stripping him once or twice. He was key in the 3Q that brought us back in it along with AG.

Bamba still struggles with defensive instinct but I feel like its something he'll improve on the more he plays. Im impressed with his passing and I feel like while on the thin side he plays tough around the basket and on the perimeter. He plays within himself and had some good defensive plays.

Simmons had a couple of nice buckets at the rim but over all was an absolute black hole on offense. You might as well clear out and let him go one on one once he gets the ball. In addition to that McGruder owned him. Not much to say about Fournier, he's been pure suck the whole pre season but Im confident he'll bounce back.

DJ will be adequate as a starting PG but I like how Grant was aggressive which I think will be huge as they platoon the position. I'm curious as to why Briscoe didn't get much burn. Grant attacked the basket and was aggressive on defense, in addition to that he gives teams a completely different look than DJ does.

I think while Iwundu struggles to shoot consistently he competes hard on defense. I thought he did a good job getting into Wade and I feel comfortable with him out there on defense. Frazier Jr had a couple of nice sequences and feel like he and Iwundu are interchangeable.

When/If we move on from Nik this season we'll struggle to win 25 games.

Not sure if you were at the game, but everything you said about Vuc really was not the case. He did not carry the team , unless you are just looking at points scored, and that does not really tell the story. The game was about defense and effort more than who scored how many points last night.

I am not sure why Briscoe does not play, but its probably just because he is the 3rd string PG and in a 9-10 man rotation, most teams don’t play their 3rd guy too much.

Agree on Iwundu and Frazier, but I think Frazier has more skill and a higher ceiling.

Being at the game doesnt make anyone an authority over people that watched it on tv, least of all someone with a dvr who can rewind and evaluate plays which i did. (And yes I have the flu with nothing better to do.)

My description of the game is 100% spot on. Nik carried us on offense and did a good..nay a great job defensively staying in contact with Whiteside when our guards couldnt prevent penetration and avoided those lobs for whiteside.

Matter of fact when our subs came in is when the Heat were able to get those lobs to Adebayo off of dribble penetration. Nik had a couple of nice entry passes from the top of the key. If his teammates hadnt been keen on building an apartment complex he wouldve had at least 5 dimes.



Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

[Nemesis21]

Gordon was trash. Olynyk burned him a couple of times and just seemed to pout until finally picking it up in the 3Q. He did have a few good defensive plays which was encouraging and a couple of nice 3's but overall largely underwhelming.

Outside of the bad inbound pass, Nik carried us as always especially since nobody could score. keeping us in the game with his passing and scoring, all while keeping Whiteside at bay by staying in contact with him and preventing those drive and lobs they like to run, and stripping him once or twice. He was key in the 3Q that brought us back in it along with AG.

Bamba still struggles with defensive instinct but I feel like its something he'll improve on the more he plays. Im impressed with his passing and I feel like while on the thin side he plays tough around the basket and on the perimeter. He plays within himself and had some good defensive plays.

Simmons had a couple of nice buckets at the rim but over all was an absolute black hole on offense. You might as well clear out and let him go one on one once he gets the ball. In addition to that McGruder owned him. Not much to say about Fournier, he's been pure suck the whole pre season but Im confident he'll bounce back.

DJ will be adequate as a starting PG but I like how Grant was aggressive which I think will be huge as they platoon the position. I'm curious as to why Briscoe didn't get much burn. Grant attacked the basket and was aggressive on defense, in addition to that he gives teams a completely different look than DJ does.

I think while Iwundu struggles to shoot consistently he competes hard on defense. I thought he did a good job getting into Wade and I feel comfortable with him out there on defense. Frazier Jr had a couple of nice sequences and feel like he and Iwundu are interchangeable.

When/If we move on from Nik this season we'll struggle to win 25 games.

Not sure if you were at the game, but everything you said about Vuc really was not the case. He did not carry the team , unless you are just looking at points scored, and that does not really tell the story. The game was about defense and effort more than who scored how many points last night.

I am not sure why Briscoe does not play, but its probably just because he is the 3rd string PG and in a 9-10 man rotation, most teams don’t play their 3rd guy too much.

Agree on Iwundu and Frazier, but I think Frazier has more skill and a higher ceiling.

Being at the game doesnt make anyone an authority over people that watched it on tv, least of all someone with a dvr who can rewind and evaluate plays which i did. (And yes I have the flu with nothing better to do.)

My description of the game is 100% spot on. Nik carried us on offense and did a good..nay a great job defensively staying in contact with Whiteside when our guards couldnt prevent penetration and avoided those lobs for whiteside.

Matter of fact when our subs came in is when the Heat were able to get those lobs to Adebayo off of dribble penetration. Nik had a couple of nice entry passes from the top of the key. If his teammates hadnt been keen on building an apartment complex he wouldve had at least 5 dimes.



Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

This

[Just Plain Mark]

The good news is, assuming Isaac can stay healthy, one of those two guys will be on the floor virtually at all times.

Speaking only for myself, having Isaac or Bamba on the floor for the whole game doesn't excite me at all because they are the furthest thing from offensive oriented players, Bamba's going to struggle defensively due to conditioning and strength issues, and who knows how many games Isaac will miss due to injury.

To me, the current product, especially offensively, is a product of drafting defensive oriented players (with the exception of Mario) and hiring three defensive minded coaches in a row. I'm pessimistic about WeHam and/or Clifford suddenly changing their fundamental approach.

Pretty much why everyone has been rolling their eyes for 3 seasons straight. Nobody except the same players that pull Orlando through terrible seasons can actually put the ball through the hoop. That’s a problem, and it hasn’t been solved or even slightly mitigated during this management’s tenure.

Sure, they inherited a terribly constructed roster. However, if they can’t alleviate having to run the offense through Vuc in an archaic fashion, or continue to draft players that constantly need to develop offensively, then nothing will change. Yes, length bothers people defensively. No, it’s not the end all be all in winning basketball games because ultimately skill matters.

So...we're agreeing?

[drsd]

This organization will find a way to not get a top 3-5 pick. 6-8 range once again.

The worst team in the league is most probable to draft 5th.


//

[drsd]

Jerian Grant has really played well and I would think he has locked himself as the primary PG backup.

[fendilim]

I immediately started watching RJ Barrett highlights after this game.

i started watching his plays in April

Both of you, don't get your hopes up. This organization will find a way to not get a top 3-5 pick. 6-8 range once again. WeHam only drafts length. So you are looking at Bol Bol(Think Rik Smits) 7'2" , 7'8" wingspan, Sekou Doumbouya(Think Jabari Parker) 6'9" , 6'11" wingspan, Jontay Porter(Think Markieff Morris) 6'11" , 7" wingspan, Charles Bassey(Think Clint Capela) 6'11" , 7'3" winspan, Daniel Gafford(Think Marcus Camby) 6'11" , 7'2" wingspan, Nazeron Reid(Think Al Jefferson) 6'10" , 7'2" wingspan

HUHUHUHUHU

[Blue_and_Whte]

Gordon was trash. Olynyk burned him a couple of times and just seemed to pout until finally picking it up in the 3Q. He did have a few good defensive plays which was encouraging and a couple of nice 3's but overall largely underwhelming.

Outside of the bad inbound pass, Nik carried us as always especially since nobody could score. keeping us in the game with his passing and scoring, all while keeping Whiteside at bay by staying in contact with him and preventing those drive and lobs they like to run, and stripping him once or twice. He was key in the 3Q that brought us back in it along with AG.

Bamba still struggles with defensive instinct but I feel like its something he'll improve on the more he plays. Im impressed with his passing and I feel like while on the thin side he plays tough around the basket and on the perimeter. He plays within himself and had some good defensive plays.

Simmons had a couple of nice buckets at the rim but over all was an absolute black hole on offense. You might as well clear out and let him go one on one once he gets the ball. In addition to that McGruder owned him. Not much to say about Fournier, he's been pure suck the whole pre season but Im confident he'll bounce back.

DJ will be adequate as a starting PG but I like how Grant was aggressive which I think will be huge as they platoon the position. I'm curious as to why Briscoe didn't get much burn. Grant attacked the basket and was aggressive on defense, in addition to that he gives teams a completely different look than DJ does.

I think while Iwundu struggles to shoot consistently he competes hard on defense. I thought he did a good job getting into Wade and I feel comfortable with him out there on defense. Frazier Jr had a couple of nice sequences and feel like he and Iwundu are interchangeable.

When/If we move on from Nik this season we'll struggle to win 25 games.

Not sure if you were at the game, but everything you said about Vuc really was not the case. He did not carry the team , unless you are just looking at points scored, and that does not really tell the story. The game was about defense and effort more than who scored how many points last night.

I am not sure why Briscoe does not play, but its probably just because he is the 3rd string PG and in a 9-10 man rotation, most teams don’t play their 3rd guy too much.

Agree on Iwundu and Frazier, but I think Frazier has more skill and a higher ceiling.

Yes game was about defense and effort.

But has it occurred that his frustrations might have been due to the fact that the team defense was suppose to cover Vuc limitations as a defender?

Vuc obviously has limitations to his game defensively. Which, i believe, his teammates should also help cover those gaps given that We have players whose calling cards are to be defensive specialists but arent actually doing their job. Shouldnt they be the one getting a fair share of the blame too? Defense isnt always a one on one street, just like offense. You try to mask someone’s weakness by having schemes.

Like when we used to have Dwight, we didnt surround him with good defenders. So svg employed a defensive scheme, where we would basically force our players to hard show on the perimeter players, just to funnel them into Dwight’s strengths of blocking shots? Or like how Steve Clifford’s defensive scheme covered Al Jefferson defensive limitations as the C of the Bobcats? Just like how every poor defender will be helped out by his teammates when put into a one on one situation.

That may be part of Vuc frustration too.

Nik is the very last player to blame for lack of defensive effort on Monday. He iwundu, and Bamba were solid on that side of the ball.

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[Def Swami]

I immediately started watching RJ Barrett highlights after this game.

i started watching his plays in April

Both of you, don't get your hopes up. This organization will find a way to not get a top 3-5 pick. 6-8 range once again. WeHam only drafts length. So you are looking at Bol Bol(Think Rik Smits) 7'2" , 7'8" wingspan, Sekou Doumbouya(Think Jabari Parker) 6'9" , 6'11" wingspan, Jontay Porter(Think Markieff Morris) 6'11" , 7" wingspan, Charles Bassey(Think Clint Capela) 6'11" , 7'3" winspan, Daniel Gafford(Think Marcus Camby) 6'11" , 7'2" wingspan, Nazeron Reid(Think Al Jefferson) 6'10" , 7'2" wingspan

Pretty depressing how predictable the Magic's next 365 days will go. They'll be among the 6 worst teams in the league out the gate. They'll trade Vucevic at the deadline for 2nd round picks. They'll end up winning the last game of the season. DJ Augustin will lead the team in APG at 3. They'll pick 6th in the draft. Draft a player with length who has questionable offense. Do nothing in free agency. Rinse and repeat.

[Nemesis21]

This organization will find a way to not get a top 3-5 pick. 6-8 range once again.

The worst team in the league is most probable to draft 5th.


//

I know this. You don't have to quote me on it and telling me how the new draft works, every time I talk about the Magic's pick range. I understand that you are bored. Thanks though.

[Nemesis21]

i started watching his plays in April

Both of you, don't get your hopes up. This organization will find a way to not get a top 3-5 pick. 6-8 range once again. WeHam only drafts length. So you are looking at Bol Bol(Think Rik Smits) 7'2" , 7'8" wingspan, Sekou Doumbouya(Think Jabari Parker) 6'9" , 6'11" wingspan, Jontay Porter(Think Markieff Morris) 6'11" , 7" wingspan, Charles Bassey(Think Clint Capela) 6'11" , 7'3" winspan, Daniel Gafford(Think Marcus Camby) 6'11" , 7'2" wingspan, Nazeron Reid(Think Al Jefferson) 6'10" , 7'2" wingspan

Pretty depressing how predictable the Magic's next 365 days will go. They'll be among the 6 worst teams in the league out the gate. They'll trade Vucevic at the deadline for 2nd round picks. They'll end up winning the last game of the season. DJ Augustin will lead the team in APG at 3. They'll pick 6th in the draft. Draft a player with length who has questionable offense. Do nothing in free agency. Rinse and repeat.

Exactly. But you know, people continue to call me a troll, saying I'm a one man fight vs the DeVos's.


Are people now ready to believe me?? I've been saying the same thing for 3+ seasons now. It wasn't JV, wasn't Borrego, wasn't Skiles, wasn't Vogel, wasn't Hennigan, won't be Clifford and won't be WeHam. It won't be the next coach and GM either.
The problem and key factors and reason why we are now in a 6 or 7 year rebuild is Alex Martins and RDV(the DeVos family now that he is no longer with us).


Until all of you wake up and realize this, I guess I'll continue to get bashed because I see the light and I'm not blinded by the BS that this organization feeds me and the fan base.

[fendilim]

Both of you, don't get your hopes up. This organization will find a way to not get a top 3-5 pick. 6-8 range once again. WeHam only drafts length. So you are looking at Bol Bol(Think Rik Smits) 7'2" , 7'8" wingspan, Sekou Doumbouya(Think Jabari Parker) 6'9" , 6'11" wingspan, Jontay Porter(Think Markieff Morris) 6'11" , 7" wingspan, Charles Bassey(Think Clint Capela) 6'11" , 7'3" winspan, Daniel Gafford(Think Marcus Camby) 6'11" , 7'2" wingspan, Nazeron Reid(Think Al Jefferson) 6'10" , 7'2" wingspan

Pretty depressing how predictable the Magic's next 365 days will go. They'll be among the 6 worst teams in the league out the gate. They'll trade Vucevic at the deadline for 2nd round picks. They'll end up winning the last game of the season. DJ Augustin will lead the team in APG at 3. They'll pick 6th in the draft. Draft a player with length who has questionable offense. Do nothing in free agency. Rinse and repeat.

Exactly. But you know, people continue to call me a troll, saying I'm a one man fight vs the DeVos's.


Are people now ready to believe me?? I've been saying the same thing for 3+ seasons now. It wasn't JV, wasn't Borrego, wasn't Skiles, wasn't Vogel, wasn't Hennigan, won't be Clifford and won't be WeHam. It won't be the next coach and GM either.
The problem and key factors and reason why we are now in a 6 or 7 year rebuild is Alex Martins and RDV(the DeVos family now that he is no longer with us).


Until all of you wake up and realize this, I guess I'll continue to get bashed because I see the light and I'm not blinded by the BS that this organization feeds me and the fan base.

lol we all know Devos and Martins get the fair share of the blame for what has transpired for this franchise the past 7 years, but your "criticism" of DeVos during the time of his death was wrongly timed.

[PennytoShaq]

Gordon was trash. Olynyk burned him a couple of times and just seemed to pout until finally picking it up in the 3Q. He did have a few good defensive plays which was encouraging and a couple of nice 3's but overall largely underwhelming.

Outside of the bad inbound pass, Nik carried us as always especially since nobody could score. keeping us in the game with his passing and scoring, all while keeping Whiteside at bay by staying in contact with him and preventing those drive and lobs they like to run, and stripping him once or twice. He was key in the 3Q that brought us back in it along with AG.

Bamba still struggles with defensive instinct but I feel like its something he'll improve on the more he plays. Im impressed with his passing and I feel like while on the thin side he plays tough around the basket and on the perimeter. He plays within himself and had some good defensive plays.

Simmons had a couple of nice buckets at the rim but over all was an absolute black hole on offense. You might as well clear out and let him go one on one once he gets the ball. In addition to that McGruder owned him. Not much to say about Fournier, he's been pure suck the whole pre season but Im confident he'll bounce back.

DJ will be adequate as a starting PG but I like how Grant was aggressive which I think will be huge as they platoon the position. I'm curious as to why Briscoe didn't get much burn. Grant attacked the basket and was aggressive on defense, in addition to that he gives teams a completely different look than DJ does.

I think while Iwundu struggles to shoot consistently he competes hard on defense. I thought he did a good job getting into Wade and I feel comfortable with him out there on defense. Frazier Jr had a couple of nice sequences and feel like he and Iwundu are interchangeable.

When/If we move on from Nik this season we'll struggle to win 25 games.

Not sure if you were at the game, but everything you said about Vuc really was not the case. He did not carry the team , unless you are just looking at points scored, and that does not really tell the story. The game was about defense and effort more than who scored how many points last night.

I am not sure why Briscoe does not play, but its probably just because he is the 3rd string PG and in a 9-10 man rotation, most teams don’t play their 3rd guy too much.

Agree on Iwundu and Frazier, but I think Frazier has more skill and a higher ceiling.

Being at the game doesnt make anyone an authority over people that watched it on tv, least of all someone with a dvr who can rewind and evaluate plays which i did. (And yes I have the flu with nothing better to do.)

My description of the game is 100% spot on. Nik carried us on offense and did a good..nay a great job defensively staying in contact with Whiteside when our guards couldnt prevent penetration and avoided those lobs for whiteside.

Matter of fact when our subs came in is when the Heat were able to get those lobs to Adebayo off of dribble penetration. Nik had a couple of nice entry passes from the top of the key. If his teammates hadnt been keen on building an apartment complex he wouldve had at least 5 dimes.



Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

The problem is you have such insane Vucivic glasses on that you could watch film 100x and still not see Whiteside pushing him around and bullying him with length. Saying you described it 100% spot on is pretty funny though, considering you can’t even acknowledge stills of Vuc getting torched on D without trying to spin it something it’s not.

Will you go root for his next team or remain a Magic fan? Serious question.

[Nemesis21]

Pretty depressing how predictable the Magic's next 365 days will go. They'll be among the 6 worst teams in the league out the gate. They'll trade Vucevic at the deadline for 2nd round picks. They'll end up winning the last game of the season. DJ Augustin will lead the team in APG at 3. They'll pick 6th in the draft. Draft a player with length who has questionable offense. Do nothing in free agency. Rinse and repeat.

Exactly. But you know, people continue to call me a troll, saying I'm a one man fight vs the DeVos's.


Are people now ready to believe me?? I've been saying the same thing for 3+ seasons now. It wasn't JV, wasn't Borrego, wasn't Skiles, wasn't Vogel, wasn't Hennigan, won't be Clifford and won't be WeHam. It won't be the next coach and GM either.
The problem and key factors and reason why we are now in a 6 or 7 year rebuild is Alex Martins and RDV(the DeVos family now that he is no longer with us).


Until all of you wake up and realize this, I guess I'll continue to get bashed because I see the light and I'm not blinded by the BS that this organization feeds me and the fan base.

lol we all know Devos and Martins get the fair share of the blame for what has transpired for this franchise the past 7 years, but your "criticism" of DeVos during the time of his death was wrongly timed.

That has nothing to do with the rebuild or this conversation. I was bashed for being critical of him for over 3 years before he passed.

Nice try though, weak attempt I might add.

[fendilim]

Exactly. But you know, people continue to call me a troll, saying I'm a one man fight vs the DeVos's.


Are people now ready to believe me?? I've been saying the same thing for 3+ seasons now. It wasn't JV, wasn't Borrego, wasn't Skiles, wasn't Vogel, wasn't Hennigan, won't be Clifford and won't be WeHam. It won't be the next coach and GM either.
The problem and key factors and reason why we are now in a 6 or 7 year rebuild is Alex Martins and RDV(the DeVos family now that he is no longer with us).


Until all of you wake up and realize this, I guess I'll continue to get bashed because I see the light and I'm not blinded by the BS that this organization feeds me and the fan base.

lol we all know Devos and Martins get the fair share of the blame for what has transpired for this franchise the past 7 years, but your "criticism" of DeVos during the time of his death was wrongly timed.

That has nothing to do with the rebuild or this conversation. I was bashed for being critical of him for over 3 years before he passed.

Nice try though, weak attempt I might add.

oh u mean when you cried because we didn't draft MPJ?

[Nemesis21]

lol we all know Devos and Martins get the fair share of the blame for what has transpired for this franchise the past 7 years, but your "criticism" of DeVos during the time of his death was wrongly timed.

That has nothing to do with the rebuild or this conversation. I was bashed for being critical of him for over 3 years before he passed.

Nice try though, weak attempt I might add.

oh u mean when you cried because we didn't draft MPJ?

I didn't cry. I didn't want him because of his length, wanted him for his scoring.

[drsd]

I know this. You don't have to quote me on it and telling me how the new draft works, every time I talk about the Magic's pick range. I understand that you are bored. Thanks though.

Respecfully, my point is that when Orlando wins 35 games and finishes 10th in the East, here is hoping the new odds helped Orlando go top-4 in the draft.


..