Regular Season Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (8-6) at Orlando Magic (7-8)

[NavalAviator94]

seriously though, have you guys ever seen DJ as in the zone as this game? he had good games overall, and I remember him having great ones with detroit and other teams. but the crossovers, no look passes, the sass he was having totally out of the ordinary.

I guess his off-year phenomenon came to an end with a reunion with clifford.

It was a thing to behold, that’s for sure. Even his dribbling was like...harder/crisper? Hard to explain. It’s like for the first time his style of play actually threw off defenders and he kicked it up 12 notches in response.

Like if Chris Duhon’s backwards walk-the-ball suddenly started to be effective, so his arse grew 10x the size to make it even more ridiculous.

I said this after the first 5 games. They need DJ to be more aggressive and start taking 9-11 shots a game due to his efficiency. I think he was at 5 a game. Last night was exactly that plus a lot more than I expected.

One thing that surprised me was his ability to adjust his speed from a little stop/jerk to showing an amazing burst of speed, blowing by his defender for a layup. We need that aggressive DJ.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app

[OrlandoDream]

I don't mind the winning and forgoing the tank, too many bad teams out there.. but we need to be smart about Vuc. He is playing out of his mind and looks diff under Clifford, but we've seen this so many times in the NBA where a player has a contract year and balls the **** out, team overreacts and resigns him (or another team overreacts and signs him), and they go back to being an average player. He's on his hottest streak ever, but we're still an 8-8 team and we're riding a player that still has a lot of deficiencies as a C, let alone a franchise sort of guy. I'm happy for the team and him though because they deserve the success, but if we do bring him back, it has to be on a 1 or 2 year deal, that would make the most sense (in a resigning scenario), otherwise we need to get either get the most return for him or just let him go and see where we go with the young guys at the helm because it's not like prior to this year we were anywhere close to successful.

Either way, this discussion makes much more sense a few more months into the season where we see where the team is at. Just 5-6 games ago Vuc had 16-15-14-14-13 games in between one 22 point game and we were saying how he's just sort of back to average offensive Vuc again (not all those games were "bad" games, specifically the ones with lower minutes in wins, just stating # totals as a whole).

Well this can go down two ways :

1) resign, throw money at Kemba/Danegelo, probably shop Gordon or Isaac for SF upgrade ( other goes at full time PF) and be strong 50 teams win team
2) don't resign, pretty much build from ground, act season didn't happen.

IMO Vučević can go back at 15-16 ppg and still be best player, even when he is not scoring his ability to take ball around FT line, read defense and make plays is what makes Magic limited offensive roster functional. ( with Iwundu Magic play 4 on 5, literally ). His ability to shoot from anywhere drags Cs away from rim, allows backdoor cuts and open lines to drive.
Lakers tried with McGee, Chandler, Kuzma and Beasley against him, vs 2 rim runners he plays more as perimeter player forcing them to uncofortable positions outside paint and he just took Beasley and Kuzma to oldschool and beat living life of Lakers inside paint.


I just got mad and sad at the end of a game knowing that THIS roster could have Oladipo- Gordon Vučević punch along with Sabonis ( easly the best bench big in nba ). That would be 50+ wins team today. Not to even mention Harris... F Hennigan and Martins and whoever got involved into that trades with Skiles and fool who hired him in first place .

In general it's depressing that it took Magic 6 years to hire nba coach who is not complete fool.

This is why I’m not necessarily excited about wins like these. The whole point of drafting Bamba was for Orlando to build again and get a competitive roster on the floor. Having Vuc shoot 23 times isn’t a winning strategy most nights and drafting Bamba should have been an indicator that the offense should look different in the following years.

The elephant in the room is that this roster has to start from square one, when Vuc leaves, because offensively there is nothing else going on. Exactly what management has been criticized for in the past. Roll with what we have and figure it all out later resulting in nothing. On the other side, Vuc shouldn’t be resigned in Orlando for the money he will command and the construction of the current roster / asset management. Wins like these are going to fool the casual fan into thinking this team is one piece away.. it isn’t.

Orlando should be rebuilding on the backs of Isaac/ Bamba/ 2019 draft/ and possibly Gordon. Having Vuc in the equation is delaying the inevitable regardless of what numbers he is putting up.

Vuc leaves in 2019, Bamba steps in the C and we immediately become a better defensive team. Add an upgrade at the PG with someone like even DLo or best base Kemba while resigning TRoss, keeping Fournier, JI and AG and problem solved.

Vuc has been good but isnt replaceable. He and DJ are 20mil in salary this year alone. Add Simmons, Mozgov and founier coming off the books in 2020, and you get near two max slots there. By then Bamba will have established himself as our C and now you spend big $ to get some elite scoring wings here to paif up alonside Bamba and Isaac. I think thats Hammonds/Weltmans plan.

[VFX]

Well this can go down two ways :

1) resign, throw money at Kemba/Danegelo, probably shop Gordon or Isaac for SF upgrade ( other goes at full time PF) and be strong 50 teams win team
2) don't resign, pretty much build from ground, act season didn't happen.

IMO Vučević can go back at 15-16 ppg and still be best player, even when he is not scoring his ability to take ball around FT line, read defense and make plays is what makes Magic limited offensive roster functional. ( with Iwundu Magic play 4 on 5, literally ). His ability to shoot from anywhere drags Cs away from rim, allows backdoor cuts and open lines to drive.
Lakers tried with McGee, Chandler, Kuzma and Beasley against him, vs 2 rim runners he plays more as perimeter player forcing them to uncofortable positions outside paint and he just took Beasley and Kuzma to oldschool and beat living life of Lakers inside paint.


I just got mad and sad at the end of a game knowing that THIS roster could have Oladipo- Gordon Vučević punch along with Sabonis ( easly the best bench big in nba ). That would be 50+ wins team today. Not to even mention Harris... F Hennigan and Martins and whoever got involved into that trades with Skiles and fool who hired him in first place .

In general it's depressing that it took Magic 6 years to hire nba coach who is not complete fool.

This is why I’m not necessarily excited about wins like these. The whole point of drafting Bamba was for Orlando to build again and get a competitive roster on the floor. Having Vuc shoot 23 times isn’t a winning strategy most nights and drafting Bamba should have been an indicator that the offense should look different in the following years.

The elephant in the room is that this roster has to start from square one, when Vuc leaves, because offensively there is nothing else going on. Exactly what management has been criticized for in the past. Roll with what we have and figure it all out later resulting in nothing. On the other side, Vuc shouldn’t be resigned in Orlando for the money he will command and the construction of the current roster / asset management. Wins like these are going to fool the casual fan into thinking this team is one piece away.. it isn’t.

Orlando should be rebuilding on the backs of Isaac/ Bamba/ 2019 draft/ and possibly Gordon. Having Vuc in the equation is delaying the inevitable regardless of what numbers he is putting up.

Vuc leaves in 2019, Bamba steps in the C and we immediately become a better defensive team. Add an upgrade at the PG with someone like even DLo or best base Kemba while resigning TRoss, keeping Fournier, JI and AG and problem solved.

Vuc has been good but isnt replaceable. He and DJ are 20mil in salary this year alone. Add Simmons, Mozgov and founier coming off the books in 2020, and you get near two max slots there. By then Bamba will have established himself as our C and now you spend big $ to get some elite scoring wings here to paif up alonside Bamba and Isaac. I think thats Hammonds/Weltmans plan.

I don’t believe it will be that simple to change the offense after relying on Vuc having to put up a majority of shots for so many years. Bamba starting is going to be a completely different team albeit defensively for the better.

Only two things can come out of this situation cap space and moral victories. Orlando will have to throw the max at players that won’t be in a championship environment while also being the focal point offensively- tough sell either way. If Orlando strikes out entirely on big names in free agency they are back to square on offensively. It’s an issue.

[OrlandoDream]

This is why I’m not necessarily excited about wins like these. The whole point of drafting Bamba was for Orlando to build again and get a competitive roster on the floor. Having Vuc shoot 23 times isn’t a winning strategy most nights and drafting Bamba should have been an indicator that the offense should look different in the following years.

The elephant in the room is that this roster has to start from square one, when Vuc leaves, because offensively there is nothing else going on. Exactly what management has been criticized for in the past. Roll with what we have and figure it all out later resulting in nothing. On the other side, Vuc shouldn’t be resigned in Orlando for the money he will command and the construction of the current roster / asset management. Wins like these are going to fool the casual fan into thinking this team is one piece away.. it isn’t.

Orlando should be rebuilding on the backs of Isaac/ Bamba/ 2019 draft/ and possibly Gordon. Having Vuc in the equation is delaying the inevitable regardless of what numbers he is putting up.

Vuc leaves in 2019, Bamba steps in the C and we immediately become a better defensive team. Add an upgrade at the PG with someone like even DLo or best base Kemba while resigning TRoss, keeping Fournier, JI and AG and problem solved.

Vuc has been good but isnt replaceable. He and DJ are 20mil in salary this year alone. Add Simmons, Mozgov and founier coming off the books in 2020, and you get near two max slots there. By then Bamba will have established himself as our C and now you spend big $ to get some elite scoring wings here to paif up alonside Bamba and Isaac. I think thats Hammonds/Weltmans plan.

I don’t believe it will be that simple to change the offense after relying on Vuc having to put up a majority of shots for so many years. Bamba starting is going to be a completely different team albeit defensively for the better.

Only two things can come out of this situation cap space and moral victories. Orlando will have to throw the max at players that won’t be in a championship environment while also being the focal point offensively- tough sell either way. If Orlando strikes out entirely on big names in free agency they are back to square on offensively. It’s an issue.

If we stay healthy and continue in this trajectory, we will be making the playoffs. Call it what you want but free agent all stars want to win and are not going to sign with tanking teams. How many all stars has the PHX suns signed? None they pro-tanking culture just promotes losing and even with the #1 pick, new coach, they are still one of the worse teams in the NBA. The odds for successful tanking and landing a superstar that will change your franchise in the draft is more luck then planning.

Cliff is a great coach, AG, JI, and Bamba are young talent that are starting to make noise and teams/players are noticing. As long we we continue to embrace this teamwork and moving the ball first while playing with effort and energy, this team will make noise this year. Just hope we stay healthy. JI, AG or Vuc going down will hurt.

We just need to address our PG situation. DJ has been good recently but we know he is a bench PG and a good one. Need that bench scoring punch from him to balance our bad bench. Im warming up to the idea of DLo is we miss out on Kemba. Even Spencer Dinwiddie would be an option. Like Ive said, its pretty amazing we are 8-8 and in the PO picture without a starting level PG. Add one while keeping all other pieces and replacing Vuc with Bamaba and we will be good.

[yoyojw17]

seriously though, have you guys ever seen DJ as in the zone as this game? he had good games overall, and I remember him having great ones with detroit and other teams. but the crossovers, no look passes, the sass he was having totally out of the ordinary.

I guess his off-year phenomenon came to an end with a reunion with clifford.

He was playing like Kemba

Now imagine if we got that kind of play consistently from the position. lol

But for real though... he made hart his b**** for the night.

[SOUL]

does he have a "lot of deficiencies?" or just his defense? because i only see the defense being an issue. He passes great, rebounds and is now a lot more consistent from 3.

Absolutely, although I'm referring more to as our go to/franchise player rather than just a center. Defense (although better this year), FT rate, consistently hitting threes for a whole season. Just gotta see it for a longer period of time.

[pepe1991]

What's the logic behind pulling for Kemba and hoping Vučević leaves?
it will be same ***t just different position, one guy asked to do everything on offense due complete inability of others to be advanced offensive players.
And by the age, Kemba is few months older i think.

[SOUL]

What's the logic behind pulling for Kemba and hoping Vučević leaves?
it will be same ***t just different position, one guy asked to do everything on offense due complete inability of others to be advanced offensive players.
And by the age, Kemba is few months older i think.

Kemba >>> Vucevic on offense though. I mean 15 games though this season, yes. Before this, last two years, Vucevic was pretty bad as far as efficiency was concerned. Lot of long twos.

[bargnanimvp]

Remember DJ had hart guarding him, Hart is awful on defense.

[yoyojw17]

What's the logic behind pulling for Kemba and hoping Vučević leaves?
it will be same ***t just different position, one guy asked to do everything on offense due complete inability of others to be advanced offensive players.
And by the age, Kemba is few months older i think.

If we are going to even try and make a break for kemba... it will have to be with a proven team that is noticeable that all they need is him to make that big step to the next level. If they believe that bamba can fill i for vuc.... Awesome... trade him and get something of value in return. I personally think he a year or so away from making such a splash of an impact. so I would try and retain vuc for selling the team to potential free agents. This is the puzzle and the only thing needed to make it complete is me. Imagine if we get a player that plays at a high level like DJ did last night on a more consistent basis. And this is all without our last 2 draft picks getting close to their best.

[pepe1991]

What's the logic behind pulling for Kemba and hoping Vučević leaves?
it will be same ***t just different position, one guy asked to do everything on offense due complete inability of others to be advanced offensive players.
And by the age, Kemba is few months older i think.

Kemba >>> Vucevic on offense though. I mean 15 games though this season, yes. Before this, last two years, Vucevic was pretty bad as far as efficiency was concerned. Lot of long twos.

I'm not even arguing who is better, Kemba is playing historic season. It's just pointless to let your best current player walk "because time table" and sign guy older than him. You either want them together or non of them.

Tbh Hornets are one of teams that should be calling Orlando to trade for Vuc, i feel sorry for Kemba, that guy has nobody to play with. Two declining French guys , guy with uglier jumper than Fultz and Marvin Wiliams.

[VFX]

What's the logic behind pulling for Kemba and hoping Vučević leaves?
it will be same ***t just different position, one guy asked to do everything on offense due complete inability of others to be advanced offensive players.
And by the age, Kemba is few months older i think.

Kemba >>> Vucevic on offense though. I mean 15 games though this season, yes. Before this, last two years, Vucevic was pretty bad as far as efficiency was concerned. Lot of long twos.

I'm not even arguing who is better, Kemba is playing historic season. It's just pointless to let your best current player walk "because time table" and sign guy older than him. You either want them together or non of them.

Tbh Hornets are one of teams that should be calling Orlando to trade for Vuc, i feel sorry for Kemba, that guy has nobody to play with. Two declining French guys , guy with uglier jumper than Fultz and Marvin Wiliams.

This is where I stand also. You are trading production although it makes more sense rotationally. You commit to the youth instead of investing in a 30 yr old point guard. Yes Kemba is better and a better fit, but I’m taking the long term investment every time. You can’t go into the future with only defensive front court players as your foundation. That’s what happens when you draft BPA and stack PF/C with players having similar skill sets. Blame management

[pepe1991]

Kemba >>> Vucevic on offense though. I mean 15 games though this season, yes. Before this, last two years, Vucevic was pretty bad as far as efficiency was concerned. Lot of long twos.

I'm not even arguing who is better, Kemba is playing historic season. It's just pointless to let your best current player walk "because time table" and sign guy older than him. You either want them together or non of them.

Tbh Hornets are one of teams that should be calling Orlando to trade for Vuc, i feel sorry for Kemba, that guy has nobody to play with. Two declining French guys , guy with uglier jumper than Fultz and Marvin Wiliams.

This is where I stand also. You are trading production although it makes more sense rotationally. You commit to the youth instead of investing in a 30 yr old point guard. Yes Kemba is better and a better fit, but I’m taking the long term investment every time. You can’t go into the future with only defensive front court players as your foundation. That’s what happens when you draft BPA and stack PF/C with players having similar skill sets. Blame management

I just don't know what this season should be all about. Win now coach, go to player in his prime ,bunch of kids who don't have usage on offense, starting Iwundu, playing Simmons,yet not really tanking. Just confusing as hell.

If they are serious about playoffs it's time to find SF who won't put in 20 min 0 points, 0 rebounds and 1 assist like Iwundu last year.

I'm just confused with direction, if there is any.

[VFX]

I'm not even arguing who is better, Kemba is playing historic season. It's just pointless to let your best current player walk "because time table" and sign guy older than him. You either want them together or non of them.

Tbh Hornets are one of teams that should be calling Orlando to trade for Vuc, i feel sorry for Kemba, that guy has nobody to play with. Two declining French guys , guy with uglier jumper than Fultz and Marvin Wiliams.

This is where I stand also. You are trading production although it makes more sense rotationally. You commit to the youth instead of investing in a 30 yr old point guard. Yes Kemba is better and a better fit, but I’m taking the long term investment every time. You can’t go into the future with only defensive front court players as your foundation. That’s what happens when you draft BPA and stack PF/C with players having similar skill sets. Blame management

I just don't know what this season should be all about. Win now coach, go to player in his prime ,bunch of kids who don't have usage on offense, starting Iwundu, playing Simmons,yet not really tanking. Just confusing as hell.

If they are serious about playoffs it's time to find SF who won't put in 20 min 0 points, 0 rebounds and 1 assist like Iwundu last year.

I'm just confused with direction, if there is any.

Exactly.

[Mauro Pedrosa]

AG looking saucy

[Mauro Pedrosa]

wrong thread ^

[Blue_and_Whte]

I still believe Isaac will be an all defensive player.
I beleive Evans play is approaching "concern" level as well. I thoughthe wouldve figured it out by now.
One thing, I know Vuc mentioned having a good off-season because he didnt play for his national team. I can't remember if Fournier did but if so then maybe were looking at some fatigue issues.

The Lakers are a cluster eff of nonsense. When I realized that Besley was on their team guarding Nik I was like "what is happening right now".
Also about 5 mins he was sucking wind at the FT like he had just had a cigerette and a Five Guys burger out back. What a hot ghetto mess. I love it.

Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

Wait you actually saw him smoking and eating a 5 guys or are you joking?

He's joking clearly.

Am I......