Recent history of fast starts

[drsd]

The key is the next 20 games. If the Magic is hovering around the zero-line on this graph at the ASW, then we are looking at a season no worse than the 2015 season. That year the Magic finished 37-45.

[drsd]

Does anyone know who had that graph? Or if someone wants to graph it themselves that'd be great.

Done.

[pepe1991]

Magic have history at sucking badly in January along with their best players having worst months there.
Last year Gordon was pathetic in January, in 2016 Dipo was pathetic that mounth.

[Blue_and_Whte]

People still defend him here. It's obvious we had young talent on the team but he was such a **** motivator and he gave up on the team. Some people get off on the tough love aspect of coaches and discipline and salivate at the mouth when coaches do that sort of stuff, but there's a delicate balance.

oh, boo hoo, you still defend vogel every now and then dude. a position that might be bordering on being a flat-earther and here you are feigning surprise at that?

skiles was a jerk, and he was the best coach we had during the rebuild. really don't know how hard it is to say that.

Some of these soft minded kids cant handle toughness. Betas.

Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

[UCFJayBird]

Does anyone know who had that graph? Or if someone wants to graph it themselves that'd be great.

Done.

You the man.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Does anyone know who had that graph? Or if someone wants to graph it themselves that'd be great.

Done.

You the man.

Where is it?

[UCFJayBird]

Done.

You the man.

Where is it?

was at the bottom of the first page, i just linked it in the first post though.

[Xatticus]

People still defend him here. It's obvious we had young talent on the team but he was such a **** motivator and he gave up on the team. Some people get off on the tough love aspect of coaches and discipline and salivate at the mouth when coaches do that sort of stuff, but there's a delicate balance.

oh, boo hoo, you still defend vogel every now and then dude. a position that might be bordering on being a flat-earther and here you are feigning surprise at that?

skiles was a jerk, and he was the best coach we had during the rebuild. really don't know how hard it is to say that.

Some of these soft minded kids cant handle toughness. Betas.

Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

Your "alpha" quit. I'm really struggling to see what's tough about that. Skiles has pissed people off and worn out his welcome at every stop throughout his career. What some see as toughness, I see as a drama queen that throws tantrums whenever they don't get their way.

[Blue_and_Whte]

oh, boo hoo, you still defend vogel every now and then dude. a position that might be bordering on being a flat-earther and here you are feigning surprise at that?

skiles was a jerk, and he was the best coach we had during the rebuild. really don't know how hard it is to say that.

Some of these soft minded kids cant handle toughness. Betas.

Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

Your "alpha" quit. I'm really struggling to see what's tough about that. Skiles has pissed people off and worn out his welcome at every stop throughout his career. What some see as toughness, I see as a drama queen that throws tantrums whenever they don't get their way.

He's also had success at almost every stop throughout his career including here, had he stayed longer, so the common denominator are the softy beta players. Their incessant crying along with Hennigans lovefest with MCW 2.0 probably had a lot to do with his decision. Your opinion is the exception not the norm.

[OrlandO]

I bet Skiles got wind the magic were going to trade Dipo and try to replace Vuc with Biz and was like that's it I'm outta here...

[Blue_and_Whte]

I bet Skiles got wind the magic were going to trade Dipo and try to replace Vuc with Biz and was like that's it I'm outta here...

Yup hennigan was a big fan of garbage players. Now look at us, on the cusp of having more success with Cliff, Vuc dominating, and Payton off the team. Skiles wasn't wrong.

[fklt]

I bet Skiles got wind the magic were going to trade Dipo and try to replace Vuc with Biz and was like that's it I'm outta here...

nope, robbins reported the reason skiles quit was, after promising that he would cooperate and communicate more with skiles in a meeting between hennigan, skiles and martins at the end of the season, hennigan fired someone in the training staff behind everybody's back, without giving a heads up. per Robbins this was the last straw for skiles who resigned shortly after. that's why timing of the resignation was weird for us outsiders.

also the harris trade being skiles doing is a pure fanmade myth. everybody's assuming that because harris was on the bench of skiles's bucks as a rookie, and that's it. skiles told robbins he very much appreciated harris and was quite shocked to see the guy traded. hennigan on the other hand was pretty sour with harris, after he refused to sign a team friendly deal that summer. harris to this day is the only player hennigan did not thank or praised after trading him.

[OrlandO]

I bet Skiles got wind the magic were going to trade Dipo and try to replace Vuc with Biz and was like that's it I'm outta here...

nope, robbins reported the reason skiles quit was, after promising that he would cooperate and communicate more with skiles in a meeting between hennigan, skiles and martins at the end of the season, hennigan fired or hired someone in the training staff without giving anyone a heads up. per Robbins this was the last straw for skiles who resigned shortly after. that's why timing of the resignation was weird for us outsiders.

also the harris trade being skiles doing is a pure fanmade myth. everybody's assuming that because harris was on the bench of skiles's bucks as a rookie, and that's it. skiles told robbins he very much appreciated harris and was quite shocked to see the guy traded. hennigan on the other hand was pretty sour with harris, after he refused to sign a team friendly deal that summer. harris to this day is the only player hennigan did not thank or praised after trading him.

There were numerous reasons for his departure reported in the media. Payton, Hezonja's development, disagreements and poor communication with management. He quit in mid-May. I'm sure the team was already considering trading Dipo and replacing Vuc by then... getting rid of your two best players would be more reason to quit than a dispute over one staff member.

As for the Harris trade... it's likely harris, skiles and henny were all in agreement on that one. Skiles had a checkered past with him and while they appeared to hash it out Skiles never really relied on him much. Can't be a coincidence we got former skiles players in return. I'm sure Harris wasn't thrilled with the Skiles hire and was less thrilled about his demoted role (went from 14 fga to 11 fga). Then you have Hennigan who was actually excited about using cap space freed up by the Harris trade on a stiff like Biyombo... he also had a habit of getting players that fit the coach (like going big with ibaka/biz for vogel). I wish I was a fly on the wall when henny and skiles discussed how they would use the cap space cleared by jennings/ilyasova.

[J the Drafter]

I bet Skiles got wind the magic were going to trade Dipo and try to replace Vuc with Biz and was like that's it I'm outta here...

also the harris trade being skiles doing is a pure fanmade myth. everybody's assuming that because harris was on the bench of skiles's bucks as a rookie, and that's it. skiles told robbins he very much appreciated harris and was quite shocked to see the guy traded.

Skiles refused to play Tobias substantial minutes in Milwaukee even though Bucks fans could see Tobes’ ability. Skiles coaches Tobias in Orlando and Tobias’ plays are ripped out of the playbook. Harris didn’t get any pick-and-pops, he didn’t get any post-ups where the defense wasn’t set and waiting for him to make a move, he only got the ball at the top of the arc for semi-open three’s. Hennigan also clearly saw Harris as a long-term player, going by Harris’ contract.

[fklt]

There were numerous reasons for his departure reported in the media. Payton, Hezonja's development, disagreements and poor communication with management. He quit in mid-May. I'm sure the team was already considering trading Dipo and replacing Vuc by then... getting rid of your two best players would be more reason to quit than a dispute over one staff member.

I'm sure there were numerous reasons. but I just can't imagine going for the twin-tower, smash mouth front-court was a thing back then before vogel is hired. it doesn't fit well with the moves hennigan made by that point and I can't believe it's a coincidence that it is the exact team structure vogel would have wanted. he was extremely ecstatic about it in the interviews, and it was pretty much the reason he was let go by bird in indiana. his refusal to give up on the big front court with paul george as the SF, and the big front-court as gordon as the SF lineup that he immediately got gifted here.

choosing fournier over dipo to make that happen was surely hennigan's call though. so the topic of trading dipo might have occured back then maybe. in his luncheon hennigan was complaining about dipo's tendency to settle for jumpers and his inability to finish in traffic. and our 5 game winning streak with dipo coming off the bench might be the clincher in that decision, which was pretty early in the season.

Hennigan also clearly saw Harris as a long-term player, going by Harris’ contract.

Hennigan didn't see him as the long-term player at all. he tried to sign millsap for a good amount of money who plays in the same position before offering harris anything. after getting rejected, he then signed harris for a contract that he didn't appreciate. just so that he wouldn't lose an asset for nothing. he traded him at the first chance he got just as I thought he would, for temporary depth, so that he could try again next summer just like he did with millsap.

[drsd]

With the new title, I wondered, "what does Orlando's rebuild look like compared to elite behavior?"

Here is one answer, the 73 win season for the Warriors:

[J the Drafter]

Hennigan didn't see him as the long-term player at all. he tried to sign millsap for a good amount of money who plays in the same position before offering harris anything. after getting rejected, he then signed harris for a contract that he didn't appreciate. just so that he wouldn't lose an asset for nothing. he traded him at the first chance he got just as I thought he would, for temporary depth, so that he could try again next summer just like he did with millsap.

Tobias plays power forward and small forward, and does quite well in the post against small forwards. Hennigan gave him four years and $64 million. It was Skiles who had an issue with Harris in the past and who had an issue with him again.

[drsd]

You a man.

Fixed.

[SOUL]

I bet Skiles got wind the magic were going to trade Dipo and try to replace Vuc with Biz and was like that's it I'm outta here...

also the harris trade being skiles doing is a pure fanmade myth. everybody's assuming that because harris was on the bench of skiles's bucks as a rookie, and that's it. skiles told robbins he very much appreciated harris and was quite shocked to see the guy traded.

Skiles refused to play Tobias substantial minutes in Milwaukee even though Bucks fans could see Tobes’ ability. Skiles coaches Tobias in Orlando and Tobias’ plays are ripped out of the playbook. Harris didn’t get any pick-and-pops, he didn’t get any post-ups where the defense wasn’t set and waiting for him to make a move, he only got the ball at the top of the arc for semi-open three’s. Hennigan also clearly saw Harris as a long-term player, going by Harris’ contract.

Yep. Many of us back then were commenting about Harris sort of fading as an offensive player and him becoming the 4th option on the team when because we knew he was showing more of a scoring arsenal before Skiles took over as coach.

I think Hennigan liked Tobias. I don't think he was 100% set in never trading him for anything, but there's no way anyone can convince me that that **** haul we got for him (for two former Skiles players, no less) was something Hennigan was concocting for a while. He deserves his own fault for signing off on the trade and actually pulling the trigger, but anybody that says Skiles deserves no blame for literally anything in his 3-4 months as coach is grossly misrepresenting the past.

The Oladipo trade is a different story with Hennigan.

[J the Drafter]

The Oladipo trade is a different story with Hennigan.

I don’t see why Hennigan would have gone for that trade either. It seemed clear to me someone in a position of power wanted a power forward on the team, and didn’t care about the particulars. You can’t convince me that Hennigan, who knows his stuff when it comes to basketball players, thought that a declining Ibaka was worth trading a young capable Oladipo for.