ImageImageImageImage

Regular Season Game 31: Orlando Magic (14-16) at Chicago Bulls (7-25)

Moderators: ChosenSavior, UCF, Knightro, UCFJayBird, Def Swami, Howard Mass

King-
Rookie
Posts: 1,104
And1: 676
Joined: Jan 12, 2012

Re: Regular Season Game 31: Orlando Magic (14-16) at Chicago Bulls (7-25) 

Post#261 » by King- » Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:39 pm

Audi wrote:
MoMM wrote:
Def Swami wrote:My ire rests in comparing Wendell Carter/Lauri Markkanen box scores with Jon Isaac/Mo Bamba box scores.

Yeah, and to think that we could have both instead...

Well, we will find the new Gianis until 2030 and then he will leave after his rookie deal...


Your ire? C’mon now. Were you all longing for Markennan when we played CHI a few nights ago and he looked like ass and put up a whopping 7 ? You going to really compare Lauri, who has more scoring opportunities nightly than Issac has ever seen...and Carter, who was hailed as one of the most NBA ready prospects to Bamba, hailed as one of the most raw...and look back with regret?



Yeah, well, Isaac shot like **** that game too (like he pretty much has for his entire career, aside from once every 6 games or so), and it's not like Markkanen was getting scored on. He played good D, and so did Isaac. But Markkanen had a bad shooting game, which is not the norm from him even though his numbers are down a bit this year because he started the season late with an injured shooting elbow. But it IS the norm from Isaac, he's able to make an open shot once every 5-6 games at best, and a lot of times he is simply scared to shoot. Isaac wasn't billed to be a good shooter, nor was he a good shooter his rookie year. He's a wing who can't shoot and those type of players almost never develop a shot, despite the blind faith you continue to have in this regard. Markkanen was billed to be a good shooter, and was a good shooter his rookie year. Markkanen is just as athletic and long as Isaac and once again, he's a good defender and it's not like we're comparing an elite defender in Isaac to a guy who's guaranteed to give up a bucket against the guy who he is guarding on any given night. In like his 2nd or 3rd game back from injury Markkanen single handedly destroyed a playoff team in OKC and hit a game winning bucket. A week or so ago he torched the Spurs in crunch time and led his team to a W there too.

And you're clinging onto the last game they played against us and the game before that when his shot wasn't falling, knowing that Isaac also shot terrible as well? Don't forget Markkanen hit a clutch 3 at the end of that game against us to tie it and almost brought them back... we got saved by Vuc, I believe, not Isaac. So, yeah, excuse him and everyone else who isn't quite thrilled with seeing a 7-footer with OBVIOUS two-way potential balling out more times than not.... and Isaac, well.... getting a few blocks and steals and being a complete negative on offense 75% of the time he's on the court.

If you're happy with Isaac, fine, he's got potential to be elite-wing defender. But you're completely blind if you don't think we messed up that pick and shouldn't have taken Markkanen instead of Isaac. Like I said, Markkanen is no slouch on defense, but he's already shown the clutch gene and all-around offensive brilliance..... with Isaac you're clinging on to hope that he'd be able to even do 25% of what Markkanen has already done on offense in his career. :crazy: :nonono:
King-
Rookie
Posts: 1,104
And1: 676
Joined: Jan 12, 2012

Re: Regular Season Game 31: Orlando Magic (14-16) at Chicago Bulls (7-25) 

Post#262 » by King- » Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:42 pm

Audi wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Audi wrote:
Your ire? C’mon now. Were you all longing for Markennan when we played CHI a few nights ago and he looked like ass and put up a whopping 7 ? You going to really compare Lauri, who has more scoring opportunities nightly than Issac has ever seen...and Carter, who was hailed as one of the most NBA ready prospects to Bamba, hailed as one of the most raw...and look back with regret?


Dude , he returned from elbow injury on shooting hand 20 days ago lol
was out for 2 months.
His rookie year alone shows lot of potential.


Yea - he also scored like 8 or 9 points the game before last night against Brooklyn, so I don’t think it’s about returning from the injury. To clarify - I’m not saying he’s a scrub. I’m just saying it’s far too early on in these kid’s careers (careers which thus far have been completely different in terms of usage) to be longingly looking back two drafts ago (and in Bamba/Carter case - one draft) and being filled with regret in taking one player over the other.



Oh wow, 8 points against Brooklyn. You must have missed his game winner against OKC, and his clutch play against San Antonio, or even his clutch 3 to tie the game in the last 10 seconds against us in that Mexico City game after having a bad shooting night...... now what has Isaac done?

Want to compile a list of his offensive feats? The blind homer-ism here with Isaac is hilarious man... :lol:

You NEVER take a Tony Allen type of defensive specialist over a two-way player with elite offensive potential, never. Wings who can't score almost never develop the ability to score and almost always end up as specialists. I dare you to find some examples that show otherwise....
King-
Rookie
Posts: 1,104
And1: 676
Joined: Jan 12, 2012

Re: Regular Season Game 31: Orlando Magic (14-16) at Chicago Bulls (7-25) 

Post#263 » by King- » Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:47 pm

The rebuttal by Isaac-stans here is always "oh well we don't run any plays for Isaac, we just have him sit in the corner."

What do you think would happen if we ran plays for Isaac? We would literally be one of the worst teams in the league if we force-fed him as a top 3 option. He literally can only make an OPEN jumpshot once every 5 games or so... what the heck is he going to do as a focal point of the offense? C'mon now, gimme a break. We are just going to have to accept the L on choosing him over Markkanen. We still have 2 more years on his rookie contract, so lets see if anything changes.... but there will come a point where reality will kick in and it's going to hurt big time if you can't see the inevitable light now.

#fireAlextheSnakeMartins
User avatar
Blue_and_Whte
RealGM
Posts: 24,650
And1: 9,548
Joined: Jun 26, 2009
Location: Orlando, FL.
     

Re: Regular Season Game 31: Orlando Magic (14-16) at Chicago Bulls (7-25) 

Post#264 » by Blue_and_Whte » Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:51 pm

MagicStarwipe wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:What does AG do for us?

Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app


Everything except shoot the ball consistently and be a reliable scorer game to game. What does Evan do?
Well since Evan has been here hes been a pretty consistent scorer so this season is an anomaly. Hes also been decent defensively. AG defends ok enough but he isnt a play maker abd his "shooting" is dependent on having others scorers around him. What does AG actually do? Hes seems more Thaddeus Young than shawn marion. A thaddrus young that can't create hisboen shot.
EDIT: I have to say that AG has been great defensively for us. Thats undeniable. I,just feel like hes not up to snuff thus season. It was a legit question.
Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app
Faith, Family, & Orlando Magic
#2A
#Adopt
#MAGA
User avatar
PrimeThyme
RealGM
Posts: 10,570
And1: 14,515
Joined: May 25, 2016
Location: Doak Campbell
 

Re: Regular Season Game 31: Orlando Magic (14-16) at Chicago Bulls (7-25) 

Post#265 » by PrimeThyme » Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:12 pm

Read on Twitter
Image
User avatar
Audi
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,889
And1: 3,216
Joined: May 30, 2014
 

Re: Regular Season Game 31: Orlando Magic (14-16) at Chicago Bulls (7-25) 

Post#266 » by Audi » Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:51 pm

King- wrote:The rebuttal by Isaac-stans here is always "oh well we don't run any plays for Isaac, we just have him sit in the corner."

What do you think would happen if we ran plays for Isaac? We would literally be one of the worst teams in the league if we force-fed him as a top 3 option. He literally can only make an OPEN jumpshot once every 5 games or so... what the heck is he going to do as a focal point of the offense? C'mon now, gimme a break. We are just going to have to accept the L on choosing him over Markkanen. We still have 2 more years on his rookie contract, so lets see if anything changes.... but there will come a point where reality will kick in and it's going to hurt big time if you can't see the inevitable light now.

#fireAlextheSnakeMartins


Again, none of this is about whether or not Lauri is good or bad, just to say that looking back on that draft after seeing Issac appear in a mere 52 games and Bamba after 30 and feeling remorse seems ridiculous
Abra Cadabra, Razzmatazz, Slam-Dunk Sesame, Hocus Pocus, Alacazam, Gonna set the spirit free
Keeping The Original Orlando Magic Theme Song Alive since 2009
User avatar
MoMM
RealGM
Posts: 10,558
And1: 1,768
Joined: Jan 08, 2002
Location: Brazilian in Barcelona
Contact:
       

Re: Regular Season Game 31: Orlando Magic (14-16) at Chicago Bulls (7-25) 

Post#267 » by MoMM » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:00 pm

Audi wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Audi wrote:
Your ire? C’mon now. Were you all longing for Markennan when we played CHI a few nights ago and he looked like ass and put up a whopping 7 ? You going to really compare Lauri, who has more scoring opportunities nightly than Issac has ever seen...and Carter, who was hailed as one of the most NBA ready prospects to Bamba, hailed as one of the most raw...and look back with regret?


Dude , he returned from elbow injury on shooting hand 20 days ago lol
was out for 2 months.
His rookie year alone shows lot of potential.


Yea - he also scored like 8 or 9 points the game before last night against Brooklyn, so I don’t think it’s about returning from the injury. To clarify - I’m not saying he’s a scrub. I’m just saying it’s far too early on in these kid’s careers (careers which thus far have been completely different in terms of usage) to be longingly looking back two drafts ago (and in Bamba/Carter case - one draft) and being filled with regret in taking one player over the other.

I can see Detroit regretting to have select Darko instead of Melo, Bosh or Wade since 1st year even that Darko was younger than all of of them...
User avatar
MoMM
RealGM
Posts: 10,558
And1: 1,768
Joined: Jan 08, 2002
Location: Brazilian in Barcelona
Contact:
       

Re: Regular Season Game 31: Orlando Magic (14-16) at Chicago Bulls (7-25) 

Post#268 » by MoMM » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:08 pm

Audi wrote:and Carter, who was hailed as one of the most NBA ready prospects to Bamba, hailed as one of the most raw...and look back with regret?

It weird to notice that Carter, as you said was one of the most complete NBA ready prospects, however he is 11 months younger than Bamba...
The Real Dalic
RealGM
Posts: 17,737
And1: 7,630
Joined: Nov 22, 2009
Location: Orlando, FL
         

Re: Regular Season Game 31: Orlando Magic (14-16) at Chicago Bulls (7-25) 

Post#269 » by The Real Dalic » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:35 pm

Yikes, glad I missed this one. WeltHam can't think this roster is okay, right? You either need to make a win-now move and push for the playoffs (Wall), or you need to trade the vets for young players and picks. Can't stay in the middle and hope for us to compete now or in the future. Hurry up and choose a path. That's been the most frustrating thing about this FO, way to slow to make any moves.
God. Family. Country. Basketball.
User avatar
Mauro Pedrosa
Analyst
Posts: 3,629
And1: 4,407
Joined: Oct 15, 2016
Contact:
   

Re: Regular Season Game 31: Orlando Magic (14-16) at Chicago Bulls (7-25) 

Post#270 » by Mauro Pedrosa » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:52 pm

King- wrote:The rebuttal by Isaac-stans here is always "oh well we don't run any plays for Isaac, we just have him sit in the corner."

What do you think would happen if we ran plays for Isaac? We would literally be one of the worst teams in the league if we force-fed him as a top 3 option. He literally can only make an OPEN jumpshot once every 5 games or so... what the heck is he going to do as a focal point of the offense? C'mon now, gimme a break. We are just going to have to accept the L on choosing him over Markkanen. We still have 2 more years on his rookie contract, so lets see if anything changes.... but there will come a point where reality will kick in and it's going to hurt big time if you can't see the inevitable light now.

#fireAlextheSnakeMartins

I wouldn’t mind having the worst record in the league if it meant Isaac and Bamba were being featured and playing through their mistakes.

This halfway bs is what I’m sick of
basketballRob
RealGM
Posts: 36,419
And1: 14,393
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: Regular Season Game 31: Orlando Magic (14-16) at Chicago Bulls (7-25) 

Post#271 » by basketballRob » Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:32 pm

MoMM wrote:
Audi wrote:and Carter, who was hailed as one of the most NBA ready prospects to Bamba, hailed as one of the most raw...and look back with regret?

It weird to notice that Carter, as you said was one of the most complete NBA ready prospects, however he is 11 months younger than Bamba...
Carter's not as good as Bamba.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
drsd
RealGM
Posts: 39,055
And1: 8,904
Joined: Mar 16, 2003
     

Re: Regular Season Game 31: Orlando Magic (14-16) at Chicago Bulls (7-25) 

Post#272 » by drsd » Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:29 am

pepe1991 wrote:
Def Swami wrote:My ire rests in comparing Wendell Carter/Lauri Markkanen box scores with Jon Isaac/Mo Bamba box scores.


Isaac was on Markkanen and got whooped...

i don't get why he kept going under screens against shooter like Lauri is... he is also one to blame for Vučević poster lol


In the NBA a defense cannot contain all 5 players. So Markkanen "got his" presumably because that was what Coach Clifford designed for. And it worked. The Magic merely gave up 90 points on 44% shooting by the Bulls; indeed the Magic had a fantastic 3-ball defense stat-line of only 29.4%.

Orlando lost this game because of very poor shooting. Gordon's 4-17 stands alongside Roos' 1-11. Let's say Gordon goes 6-17 and Ross 4-11 - still bad shooting nights - Orlando wins this game.


..
pepe1991
RealGM
Posts: 22,987
And1: 18,973
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Regular Season Game 31: Orlando Magic (14-16) at Chicago Bulls (7-25) 

Post#273 » by pepe1991 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:13 pm

Mauro Pedrosa wrote:
King- wrote:The rebuttal by Isaac-stans here is always "oh well we don't run any plays for Isaac, we just have him sit in the corner."

What do you think would happen if we ran plays for Isaac? We would literally be one of the worst teams in the league if we force-fed him as a top 3 option. He literally can only make an OPEN jumpshot once every 5 games or so... what the heck is he going to do as a focal point of the offense? C'mon now, gimme a break. We are just going to have to accept the L on choosing him over Markkanen. We still have 2 more years on his rookie contract, so lets see if anything changes.... but there will come a point where reality will kick in and it's going to hurt big time if you can't see the inevitable light now.

#fireAlextheSnakeMartins

I wouldn’t mind having the worst record in the league if it meant Isaac and Bamba were being featured and playing through their mistakes.

This halfway bs is what I’m sick of


Problem is fact that they are incapable of being big options right now.
How to even run offense for them?
One is 6'11 but can't post up you or me, other is 7 footer that camps on 3 point line but can't shoot.

Non of them can put ball on the floor, pass, shoot from elbow, do spin shot, take man off dribble... They look on the floor like Vonleh and Cody Zeller did in 2014 for Hornets. Allegedly solid shooters at college who flat out can't shoot in nba.
But not only that they can't shoot, they can't score in any other way. Just limited.
Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans. -John Lennon
User avatar
Mauro Pedrosa
Analyst
Posts: 3,629
And1: 4,407
Joined: Oct 15, 2016
Contact:
   

Re: Regular Season Game 31: Orlando Magic (14-16) at Chicago Bulls (7-25) 

Post#274 » by Mauro Pedrosa » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:50 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Mauro Pedrosa wrote:
King- wrote:The rebuttal by Isaac-stans here is always "oh well we don't run any plays for Isaac, we just have him sit in the corner."

What do you think would happen if we ran plays for Isaac? We would literally be one of the worst teams in the league if we force-fed him as a top 3 option. He literally can only make an OPEN jumpshot once every 5 games or so... what the heck is he going to do as a focal point of the offense? C'mon now, gimme a break. We are just going to have to accept the L on choosing him over Markkanen. We still have 2 more years on his rookie contract, so lets see if anything changes.... but there will come a point where reality will kick in and it's going to hurt big time if you can't see the inevitable light now.

#fireAlextheSnakeMartins

I wouldn’t mind having the worst record in the league if it meant Isaac and Bamba were being featured and playing through their mistakes.

This halfway bs is what I’m sick of


Problem is fact that they are incapable of being big options right now.
How to even run offense for them?
One is 6'11 but can't post up you or me, other is 7 footer that camps on 3 point line but can't shoot.

Non of them can put ball on the floor, pass, shoot from elbow, do spin shot, take man off dribble... They look on the floor like Vonleh and Cody Zeller did in 2014 for Hornets. Allegedly solid shooters at college who flat out can't shoot in nba.
But not only that they can't shoot, they can't score in any other way. Just limited.

I agree that they look pretty awful doing all those things, but I'd rather have them try and fail, than not try at all. Just standing in the corner won't improve their games

Return to Orlando Magic