Regular Season Game 40: Orlando Magic (17-22) at Sacramento Kings (19-20)

[magicman112]

People keep crapping on WeHam but it was Alex Martins who hired Rob and WeHam. The Devos kids do not care about the team that much and thus allowed Martins run unchecked and to make stupid decision after stupid decision.

I've been crapped on by most of this board and 2-3 's for about 3 seasons now, for defending Hennigan and pointing the finger at RDV and Martins. Funny how some people are now pulling their heads out of their arses and seeing the light of day.

You're looking more and more right on that. The bad thing about it is Martins is an old friend of the RDV family being there from the start so I think unless the RDV family sells he's gonna be around.

[pepe1991]

Again with this.... I am honestly trying to understand how length and size could be an asset for Bamba but not for Isaac? Is it because one plays center and the other plays out of position at the 3?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not here defending Isaac or his play or claiming he is going to be great. I just don't see your logic on why Bamba could turn out good but Isaac will not.

And you continually post the same thing over an over in each game thread.

Bamba holds more muscles in upper body so i hope he can develop lower body ( Isaac is toothpick all around ,despite playing for almost 2 years ).
Bamba has highest wingspan recorded and probably highest since McHale. Isaac stands at 6'11 with same wingspan as Kawhi Leonard ( 7'3) .
Bamba'e eFG is 51,2% - Isaac 45%
Bamba kills Isaac already in rebounding percentage ( 16% to 10% )
Bamba per 100 possessions is averaging more points, rebounds, blocks and assists , Isaac only has steals going in his favor.

I don't want to cherry pick stast so there you go, rookie Bamba vs second year Isaac, Bamba beats him in almost every single category.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Jonathan+Isaac&player_id1_select=Jonathan+Isaac&y1=2019&player_id1=isaacjo01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Mohamed+Bamba&player_id2_select=Mohamed+Bamba&y2=2019&player_id2=bambamo01&idx=players

Notice how Bamba already has higher impact on defense and is less harmful on offense.

Not really sure that answered anything as I wasn't looking for a comparison of players, but rather why you think Bamba has a greater chance for success than Isaac due to length and size. From the above I can only assume you think Bamba's body type will allow him to put on more muscle where Isaac will not. I wonder if you think Isaac would have greater chance of improvement if he played the 4?

I guess he would have greater chance at developing into better player than he is if he played as big when he grew up enough to play it. Sudden growth helped Davis become all around amazing player, but it wasn't case for Isaac. He lacks guard instics and ballhandling skills and he never learned how to play as big.

Ofc this is just speculation, if he never grew up to be 6'11 he would probably never reach nba to being with .

[MartinsIzAfraud]

People keep crapping on WeHam but it was Alex Martins who hired Rob and WeHam. The Devos kids do not care about the team that much and thus allowed Martins run unchecked and to make stupid decision after stupid decision.

I've been crapped on by most of this board and 2-3 's for about 3 seasons now, for defending Hennigan and pointing the finger at RDV and Martins. Funny how some people are now pulling their heads out of their arses and seeing the light of day.

You're looking more and more right on that. The bad thing about it is Martins is an old friend of the RDV family being there from the start so I think unless the RDV family sells he's gonna be around.

Hate that greasy haired fool.. he belongs in a marketing department and the fact that he had some control in anything basketball related is hilarious.

[Blue_and_Whte]

What are the major advantages to length and size on offense? Length and size on offense to me sounds like someone who can get rebounds. Whoo! If this is the case, why is Isaac playing SF and sitting beyond the 3pt line all game? Oh right, they drafted him when they had AG and since he also can't play SF, they're forcing JI over there when he probably should be taking advantage of size and length by being down near the rim, on the baseline, grabbing o-boards and bodying people up in the paint.

Yup.

AG should be traded. Let Isaac develop a game next to Bamba and work on his shot. It’s time to commit to this FO’s lottery picks. If not AG, then Isaac. Both won’t work.There are too many glaring weaknesses on this roster to have two PF’s with unreliable offense. They arguably have similar trade value - higher than most others on this roster.

Let’s just hope these guys have noticed since being here

i have to agree. I have no problem with Nik but they have got to commit to SOMETHING. Even if Bamba sucks at least we know what we have. Vuc is just wasting his prime years on this hot mess of a team.

Personally I think If Isaac gets AGs mins and shots at the 4 he can produce similarly to Gordon. Don’t get me wrong he isn’t an advanced ball handler but he’s a better slasher than Gordon and his long strides allow him to get by people. He’s also a better pull up jump shooter and overall he’s as good a defender as AG is imo.

I’d be really excited if they used some combo that includes Nik, AG, Fournier and possibly Grant or Simmons to get some of young talent in here. DSJ is my hope but guys like him and Ingram would be cool. Something along those lines. I don’t have any he specifics on how that would work but people get the gist.
I also have to say that the body language amongst the players was really poor. When we had AG and Ross on the floor with other bench guys they chemistry just wasn’t there imo.

[Skin]

I really like that even the Vuc lovers can have a reasonable discussion about needing a direction for this team.

It's either....

1) Extend Vuc and keep trying to win with vets... trade Bamba & Gordon.

2) Move on without Vuc and keep trying to develop young players... trade Fournier, Ross & Vuc

[pepe1991]

I really like that even the Vuc lovers can have a reasonable discussion about needing a direction for this team.

It's either....

1) Extend Vuc and keep trying to win with vets... trade Bamba & Gordon.

2) Move on without Vuc and keep trying to develop young players... trade Fournier, Ross & Vuc

That's kind a common sense isn't it?

Can't have it both ways, can't be half pregnant, can't be virgin and F around...

[Mauro Pedrosa]

What are the major advantages to length and size on offense? Length and size on offense to me sounds like someone who can get rebounds. Whoo! If this is the case, why is Isaac playing SF and sitting beyond the 3pt line all game? Oh right, they drafted him when they had AG and since he also can't play SF, they're forcing JI over there when he probably should be taking advantage of size and length by being down near the rim, on the baseline, grabbing o-boards and bodying people up in the paint.

If you’re able to shoot, like KD is, length basically makes your shot unblockable.

Unfortunately Isaac’s offense is cringeworthy right now

[Blue_and_Whte]

I really like that even the Vuc lovers can have a reasonable discussion about needing a direction for this team.

It's either....

1) Extend Vuc and keep trying to win with vets... trade Bamba & Gordon.

2) Move on without Vuc and keep trying to develop young players... trade Fournier, Ross & Vuc

You mean intelligent posters that actually know basketball? Always have been.

[Skin]

I really like that even the Vuc lovers can have a reasonable discussion about needing a direction for this team.

It's either....

1) Extend Vuc and keep trying to win with vets... trade Bamba & Gordon.

2) Move on without Vuc and keep trying to develop young players... trade Fournier, Ross & Vuc

That's kind a common sense isn't it?

Can't have it both ways, can't be half pregnant, can't be virgin and F around...

I mean, I always thought it was plain and simple to see that we were directionless and stuck in NBA abyss, but I had the sense that Vuc lovers wanted to keep trying to win with him and were confident that was the direction we need to go.

Now I hear "trade him while his value is high" and "we need a direction" from Vuc lovers and it's showing some smartening up.

[pepe1991]

I really like that even the Vuc lovers can have a reasonable discussion about needing a direction for this team.

It's either....

1) Extend Vuc and keep trying to win with vets... trade Bamba & Gordon.

2) Move on without Vuc and keep trying to develop young players... trade Fournier, Ross & Vuc

That's kind a common sense isn't it?

Can't have it both ways, can't be half pregnant, can't be virgin and F around...

I mean, I always thought it was plain and simple to see that we were directionless and stuck in NBA abyss, but I had the sense that Vuc lovers wanted to keep trying to win with him and were confident that was the direction we need to go.

Now I hear "trade him while his value is high" and "we need a direction" from Vuc lovers and it's showing some smartening up.

lol Skin...

First of all you simply can't stand notion that your agenda against Vučević looks like nothing more but pathetic hate since he is so much better than next Magic best player to the point it's worthless to even debate who second best player is. Because frankly Ross, Gordon and Evan are so damn flawed as players that debating about them is like debating who is better , Kurcus or Napier, simply nobody cares, Bunch of replacment level talents.

Also pushing agenda that somehow throwing bunch of players who bearly are rotation players on bad team, will make them better if you expend their role is like thinking that fat kid will preform better in 400 m race than 100 m race where he almost got stroke when he tried 100 m race for first time. It's ridiculous idea. And what people say to defend it ? " They are no babies let them play" ,you know, same people who pretend that 5th year player has potential to be star despite looking copy past the same for last 3 years. Hypocrisy much?

In reality Magic really don't have many options

1) resign Vučević and sell Isaac or Gordon to get somebody who can actually play with ball ( probably Isaac because his value will diminish as he getting exposed every game )
2) trade Vučević , Ross become most untalanted team in nba, tank for next 3 years that could push team out of Orlando,as they are reported for two years as one of teams that loses money and has declining tv ratings with zero hype or national interest.

[p0peye]

There's less value in tanking considering changed lottery odds, but selling high for future FRPs make sense. I personally dislike this draft pool, so my preference would be to trade Vučević and Ross for future (2020/21) picks.

Kings seem to be looking to make a deal for Kanter, I hope we are talking to them too as they may be willing to give their 2021 FRP.

Dallas looks they might go into win now mode, we should explore trading Vučević/Ross to get DSJ.

[Skin]

That's kind a common sense isn't it?

Can't have it both ways, can't be half pregnant, can't be virgin and F around...

I mean, I always thought it was plain and simple to see that we were directionless and stuck in NBA abyss, but I had the sense that Vuc lovers wanted to keep trying to win with him and were confident that was the direction we need to go.

Now I hear "trade him while his value is high" and "we need a direction" from Vuc lovers and it's showing some smartening up.

lol Skin...

First of all you simply can't stand notion that your agenda against Vučević looks like nothing more but pathetic hate since he is so much better than next Magic best player to the point it's worthless to even debate who second best player is. Because frankly Ross, Gordon and Evan are so damn flawed as players that debating about them is like debating who is better , Kurcus or Napier, simply nobody cares, Bunch of replacment level talents.

Also pushing agenda that somehow throwing bunch of players who bearly are rotation players on bad team, will make them better if you expend their role is like thinking that fat kid will preform better in 400 m race than 100 m race where he almost got stroke when he tried 100 m race for first time. It's ridiculous idea. And what people say to defend it ? " They are no babies let them play" ,you know, same people who pretend that 5th year player has potential to be star despite looking copy past the same for last 3 years. Hypocrisy much?

In reality Magic really don't have many options

1) resign Vučević and sell Isaac or Gordon to get somebody who can actually play with ball ( probably Isaac because his value will diminish as he getting exposed every game )
2) trade Vučević , Ross become most untalanted team in nba, tank for next 3 years that could push team out of Orlando,as they are reported for two years as one of teams that loses money and has declining tv ratings with zero hype or national interest.

Nah. Pathetic is you taking so long to come around to what I've been saying this whole time.

Listen, Vuc is good... just not good enough.

Not good enough to help us builld a championship team around his style of play.
Not good enough to attract other good players to play with him.
Not good enough to trade and get another good player or good asset.

Because of that, there's nothing to hide... of course I hate him. He is the reason why we are directionless. Our coaches want to win, so they feel the need to play him. Everything to them is shortsighted. Their jobs are tied to wins. As fans, we are more patient and have more of a long term investment in the team.

I like his salary. I like that he's expiring because hopefully that is an end to a miserable era.

Stop acting like getting rid of Vuc means I want Bamba to play 48 minutes. I keep telling you time and time again, but for some reason it's not sinking in your head.... While I would definitely give Bamba more than the 16 minutes he averages now, I would play Birch a whole lot more too and together they could man the C position. Bamba has the 4th highest PER on the team and he hasn't even scratched his surface. Let him work through his mistakes and stop trying to crucify him for what he is now. He'll figure out how important it is for him to grow and correct his issues if he takes his lumps now. Right now, he's just being pantied and coddled and his mentality is that he needs to take a backseat to Vuc.

We need to change the billboards. We need a new culture. We need to start placing our hopes in the future of our youth.

...and NOT being told that we're going to compete with the top teams in the NBA. How stupid does this FO they think we are?

Trade Vuc, trade Evan, trade Ross for potato chips.... trade Gordon for another player of equal value at a different position... Do SOMETHING. WeHam is obviously most invested in Isaac and Bamba... ok... but DO SOMETHING MORE than just sitting on your hands!!! @#$%!!!!

[pepe1991]

"Vuc is good but not good enough"

Who is good enough to carry team to wins every night ? Lebron ,Harden, Durant, Giannis? That's it.

"Not good enough to help us builld a championship team around his style of play.
Not good enough to attract other good players to play with him.
Not good enough to trade and get another good player or good asset."

Magic are not winning championsihp with or without Vučević, with him at least product is somewhat watchable.
Tracy McGrady couldn't attract free agents to Orlando. Howard couldn't. Magic have up 6 years $118M to Lewis to get him, guy literally said that even he thought it was too much.
UFAs don't have high trade value because buyers market is made of good teams, nobody has $12M of dead cap to offer, and if they do Magic won't take that type of deal.

"Because of that, there's nothing to hide... of course I hate him. He is the reason why we are directionless. Our coaches want to win, so they feel the need to play him. Everything to them is shortsighted. Their jobs are tied to wins. As fans, we are more patient and have more of a long term investment in the team. "

Good you admited it. Now just let it go.
He is not reason why coaches want to win, he is only option coaches have that is smart and good enough to be trusted with ball. It's not his , or Cliffs( Vogel's) fault that GMs can't give them more NBA level players on roster. Also it's not his fault that he still is on roster, you got your blame order all wrong buddy.
Direction ? What's direction without him ? 5 wins and with worst record that will by odds give you 5# overall pick?

"Bamba has the 4th highest PER on the team and he hasn't even scratched his surface."

Worthless stat. Marjanović has higher PER than Durant, Curry , Davis , Hakeem and is on pace to have highest PER than Jordan for career. Guy is 31 and lost hi spot to Gortat.

"He'll figure out how important it is for him to grow and correct his issues if he takes his lumps now. Right now, he's just being pantied and coddled and his mentality is that he needs to take a backseat to Vuc."

How about him not fouling out witihn 25 min that would give coach more reason to put him on the floor?
Raptors 11 min - 4 fouls, Clippers 14 min -3 fouls, Minny 13 min -3 fouls , Nuggets 14 min 4 fouls. It's laughable.
Birch is third stringer , Get over it.

"We need to change the billboards. We need a new culture. We need to start placing our hopes in the future of our youth."

Again, young doesn't mean good, it's just means being born later.
Would you rebuild around Dragan Bender, Chriss and Jackson ? Why not? They are 21 yeras old. GIVE THEM A SHOT. (where's my green font at ?! )
Isaac wasn't even worth building college roster around let alone nba team. Open your eyes and be realistic for a second:
Iwundu - young / yet sucks
Isaac - young / worst starter in nba probably
Bamba- young / tonight DNPed for Olympiakos backup C
Jackson - young / just got cut FROM G LEAGUE
Frazier - young / usless

If you need to always blame something look at Mr Burns and Smithers and ask yourself why every single player they drafted looks like worst version of Mario Hezonja and Mo Harkless

[woosah]

...

"We need to change the billboards. We need a new culture. We need to start placing our hopes in the future of our youth."

Again, young doesn't mean good, it's just means being born later.
Would you rebuild around Dragan Bender, Chriss and Jackson ? Why not? They are 21 yeras old. GIVE THEM A SHOT. (where's my green font at ?! )
Isaac wasn't even worth building college roster around let alone nba team. Open your eyes and be realistic for a second:
Iwundu - young / yet sucks
Isaac - young / worst starter in nba probably
Bamba- young / tonight DNPed for Olympiakos backup C
Jackson - young / just got cut FROM G LEAGUE
Frazier - young / usless

If you need to always blame something look at Mr Burns and Smithers and ask yourself why every single player they drafted looks like worst version of Mario Hezonja and Mo Harkless

The underlined just made me howl!! RIP to me. This is why i can't stand Pepe lol (j/k).

[pepe1991]

BREAKING :
real footage of Weltman pitching idea for GMs job to his Bucks Buddy Hammond

[Skin]

"Vuc is good but not good enough"

Who is good enough to carry team to wins every night ? Lebron ,Harden, Durant, Giannis? That's it.

"Not good enough to help us builld a championship team around his style of play.
Not good enough to attract other good players to play with him.
Not good enough to trade and get another good player or good asset."

Magic are not winning championsihp with or without Vučević, with him at least product is somewhat watchable.
Tracy McGrady couldn't attract free agents to Orlando. Howard couldn't. Magic have up 6 years $118M to Lewis to get him, guy literally said that even he thought it was too much.
UFAs don't have high trade value because buyers market is made of good teams, nobody has $12M of dead cap to offer, and if they do Magic won't take that type of deal.

"Because of that, there's nothing to hide... of course I hate him. He is the reason why we are directionless. Our coaches want to win, so they feel the need to play him. Everything to them is shortsighted. Their jobs are tied to wins. As fans, we are more patient and have more of a long term investment in the team. "

Good you admited it. Now just let it go.
He is not reason why coaches want to win, he is only option coaches have that is smart and good enough to be trusted with ball. It's not his , or Cliffs( Vogel's) fault that GMs can't give them more NBA level players on roster. Also it's not his fault that he still is on roster, you got your blame order all wrong buddy.
Direction ? What's direction without him ? 5 wins and with worst record that will by odds give you 5# overall pick?

"Bamba has the 4th highest PER on the team and he hasn't even scratched his surface."

Worthless stat. Marjanović has higher PER than Durant, Curry , Davis , Hakeem and is on pace to have highest PER than Jordan for career. Guy is 31 and lost hi spot to Gortat.

"He'll figure out how important it is for him to grow and correct his issues if he takes his lumps now. Right now, he's just being pantied and coddled and his mentality is that he needs to take a backseat to Vuc."

How about him not fouling out witihn 25 min that would give coach more reason to put him on the floor?
Raptors 11 min - 4 fouls, Clippers 14 min -3 fouls, Minny 13 min -3 fouls , Nuggets 14 min 4 fouls. It's laughable.
Birch is third stringer , Get over it.

"We need to change the billboards. We need a new culture. We need to start placing our hopes in the future of our youth."

Again, young doesn't mean good, it's just means being born later.
Would you rebuild around Dragan Bender, Chriss and Jackson ? Why not? They are 21 yeras old. GIVE THEM A SHOT. (where's my green font at ?! )
Isaac wasn't even worth building college roster around let alone nba team. Open your eyes and be realistic for a second:
Iwundu - young / yet sucks
Isaac - young / worst starter in nba probably
Bamba- young / tonight DNPed for Olympiakos backup C
Jackson - young / just got cut FROM G LEAGUE
Frazier - young / usless

If you need to always blame something look at Mr Burns and Smithers and ask yourself why every single player they drafted looks like worst version of Mario Hezonja and Mo Harkless

LOL, you call this product we've had the last 7 years "watchable" because of Vuc? ha ha

At least we agree Vuc isn't good enough. Your reasons...my reasons... Tom, Dick and Harry's reasons... all good reasons why Vuc isn't good enough to be a player we hinge our future on.

Stars wanted to play with T-Mac and Howard but the Magic were cap strapped. Thanks for reminding me about Grant Hill today. Hate that guy.

I admit it's lazy analysis, but PER is not worthless, nor is it all telling. Boban is like that because he plays limited minutes. 10mpg. Troy Caupain has a PER of 33 for us. Goes to show that you just need to apply some common sense that it's more meaningful the more minutes you play. Bamba plays 16mpg which isn't super high either, but it's not low enough to make it a worthless stat. Give me a stat you like that is all telling.

WeHam is most definitely NOT absent from my hating. Damn retreads, I hated them from the start. You hate em too... "Good you admit it. Now let it go." See how silly that sounds? There ain't no letting go of it until they are gone. Just the way I feel about Vuc. I blame him (not solely) for us missing out 1 or 2 picks being away from drafting young stars.

I really could care less about being a crap team if we are developing young players. That's what PHX and DAL are doing and that is a better direction than what we're doing. At least they are positioning themselves for high draft picks. You can write off Isaac and Bamba all you want... they aren't the greatest because they were both picks outside of the top 5... but it's the best thing we have to a future. All you see is what's in front of your eyes. If a player plays bad today, he's a bad player. If same player plays good the next day, he's a good player. If he plays bad again, he's a bad player. Flip flop, flip flop. Just like your opinion of Vuc. Good one day to trade bait the next... then back to good... then back to realizing no one wants him... flip flop flip flop.

If you want a direction with Vuc in the picture and us keeping him for another 3-4 years at $17-23M per year, paint me the picture of us becoming a contender. Because if we spend the same next 3-4 years getting high lottery picks, I bet we will be better in the long run because of it.

[Skin]

BREAKING :
real footage of Weltman pitching idea for GMs job to his Bucks Buddy Hammond

Let's make sigs like this... how can we make it happen?!!!

[pepe1991]

BREAKING :
real footage of Weltman pitching idea for GMs job to his Bucks Buddy Hammond

Let's make sigs like this... how can we make it happen?!!!

have no clue, gotta ask somebody else, i still fail to set picture on profile

[Skin]

BREAKING :
real footage of Weltman pitching idea for GMs job to his Bucks Buddy Hammond

Let's make sigs like this... how can we make it happen?!!!

have no clue, gotta ask somebody else, i still fail to set picture on profile

Bingo!