Can Vuc be traded if he makes the all star team?

[IllMagic04]

Trading Vuc is gonna look really bad since I feel pretty confident that he's gonna be an all star. As bad as its gonna look it needs to be done.

[Xatticus]

Saying Ibaka was brought here to "compliment Vuc " is notorious lie as Magic big name FA was Biyombo who was brought to replace Vuc.

Biyombo just happend to be unplayable and showed zero reasons to belive he could be starter.

Magic main logic was to build defensive minded team where they were in same time banking on development of Gordon- to play SF and development of Payton- to be facilitator ( opposite of Oladipo being guy with ball in his hands in late game situations like in previous years ).

Stop revision history

Biyombo was not brought in to replace Vucevic. Biyombo was signed because we were desperately thin in our frontcourt due to the the departures of Frye, Ilyasova, Dedmon, Smith, and Nicholson. By moving Gordon to the three spot in the starting rotation, we effectively had zero backups on the roster for Vucevic and Ibaka.

The terms of Biyombo's contract were not reflective of his status with the organization, but rather they were the result of exceptionally poor planning by Hennigan. We walked into a seller's market with a desperate need for frontcourt help.

In that summer:

BISMACK BIYOMBO: 4 years, $72 million with Magic

TIMOFEY MOZGOV: 4 years, $64 million with Lakers
ANDRE DRUMMOND: 5 years, $130 million with Pistons
HASSAN WHITESIDE: 4-years, $98 million with Heat
DWIGHT HOWARD: 3 years, $70 million with Hawks
JOAKIM NOAH: 4 years, $72 million with Knicks
JON LEUER: 4 years, $42 million with Pistons
AL HORFORD: 4 years, $113 million with the Celtics
IAN MAHINMI: 4 years, $64 million with the Wizards
COLE ALDRICH: 3 years, $22 million with Timberwolves
MEYERS LEONARD: 4 years, $41 million with Blazers
MILES PLUMLEE: 4 years, $52 million with Bucks

Every Vucevic fanboy in this forum had been droning on about how Ibaka was the perfect frontcourt partner for Vucevic. I don't know how anyone that was around this forum at that time can refute this.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Saying Ibaka was brought here to "compliment Vuc " is notorious lie as Magic big name FA was Biyombo who was brought to replace Vuc.

Biyombo just happend to be unplayable and showed zero reasons to belive he could be starter.

Magic main logic was to build defensive minded team where they were in same time banking on development of Gordon- to play SF and development of Payton- to be facilitator ( opposite of Oladipo being guy with ball in his hands in late game situations like in previous years ).

Stop revision history

Biyombo was not brought in to replace Vucevic. Biyombo was signed because we were desperately thin in our frontcourt due to the the departures of Frye, Ilyasova, Dedmon, Smith, and Nicholson. By moving Gordon to the three spot in the starting rotation, we effectively had zero backups on the roster for Vucevic and Ibaka.

The terms of Biyombo's contract were not reflective of his status with the organization, but rather they were the result of exceptionally poor planning by Hennigan. We walked into a seller's market with a desperate need for frontcourt help.

In that summer:

BISMACK BIYOMBO: 4 years, $72 million with Magic

TIMOFEY MOZGOV: 4 years, $64 million with Lakers
ANDRE DRUMMOND: 5 years, $130 million with Pistons
HASSAN WHITESIDE: 4-years, $98 million with Heat
DWIGHT HOWARD: 3 years, $70 million with Hawks
JOAKIM NOAH: 4 years, $72 million with Knicks
JON LEUER: 4 years, $42 million with Pistons
AL HORFORD: 4 years, $113 million with the Celtics
IAN MAHINMI: 4 years, $64 million with the Wizards
COLE ALDRICH: 3 years, $22 million with Timberwolves
MEYERS LEONARD: 4 years, $41 million with Blazers
MILES PLUMLEE: 4 years, $52 million with Bucks

Every Vucevic fanboy in this forum had been droning on about how Ibaka was the perfect frontcourt partner for Vucevic. I don't know how anyone that was around this forum at that time can refute this.

people were clamoring how Ibaka was the Magical Unicorn to put next to Vuc who couldn't play defense. It was Vuc can focus on offense give minimal effort on defense and Ibaka would handle the rest

[pepe1991]

Saying Ibaka was brought here to "compliment Vuc " is notorious lie as Magic big name FA was Biyombo who was brought to replace Vuc.

Biyombo just happend to be unplayable and showed zero reasons to belive he could be starter.

Magic main logic was to build defensive minded team where they were in same time banking on development of Gordon- to play SF and development of Payton- to be facilitator ( opposite of Oladipo being guy with ball in his hands in late game situations like in previous years ).

Stop revision history

Biyombo was not brought in to replace Vucevic. Biyombo was signed because we were desperately thin in our frontcourt due to the the departures of Frye, Ilyasova, Dedmon, Smith, and Nicholson. By moving Gordon to the three spot in the starting rotation, we effectively had zero backups on the roster for Vucevic and Ibaka.

The terms of Biyombo's contract were not reflective of his status with the organization, but rather they were the result of exceptionally poor planning by Hennigan. We walked into a seller's market with a desperate need for frontcourt help.

In that summer:

BISMACK BIYOMBO: 4 years, $72 million with Magic

TIMOFEY MOZGOV: 4 years, $64 million with Lakers
ANDRE DRUMMOND: 5 years, $130 million with Pistons
HASSAN WHITESIDE: 4-years, $98 million with Heat
DWIGHT HOWARD: 3 years, $70 million with Hawks
JOAKIM NOAH: 4 years, $72 million with Knicks
JON LEUER: 4 years, $42 million with Pistons
AL HORFORD: 4 years, $113 million with the Celtics
IAN MAHINMI: 4 years, $64 million with the Wizards
COLE ALDRICH: 3 years, $22 million with Timberwolves
MEYERS LEONARD: 4 years, $41 million with Blazers
MILES PLUMLEE: 4 years, $52 million with Bucks

Every Vucevic fanboy in this forum had been droning on about how Ibaka was the perfect frontcourt partner for Vucevic. I don't know how anyone that was around this forum at that time can refute this.

You just debunked your own point with your examples.
Everybody from your list who got anywhere near Biyombo's lengt of contract and amount of money per year was viewed as - starters or guys brought up to replace starters.

This is Vogel's qoute for Biyombo after a trade

"He [Bismack Biyombo] was our primary target in free agency," said Vogel during the introduction of Biyombo last month. "Biz is a guy who’s going to come in and help us establish this identity that has been successful for me in Indiana that we want to bring here."

Whole Vuc is being traded thing was so out there and common sense that most of other fans and blogs and writers were talking about potential buyers for Vuc.

It didn't take long for ESPN to pick up a story about Vuc trade so in december of 2016 we had Nick SIlva writing this

There has been some speculation over the past 12 months that Magic center Nikola Vucevic might be made available, and the rumors could surface again since head coach Frank Vogel recently benched Vucevic and moved Biyombo into the starting lineup.”

Brian Windhorst went to podcast and flat out said that Magic were shopping Vučević in week when Biyombo was promoted as starter.


More of credible sources

Marc Stein:

Most rival executives expect the Magic to rank among the league’s most active teams between now and the Feb. 23 trade deadline; Nikola Vucevic, Mario Hezonja and Elfrid Payton have all been rumored to be in play. Orlando, though, is quietly 11-8 against sub-.500 teams, which actually ranks as the East’s best record among the seven clubs in the conference currently outside the top eight. The Magic, in other words, are holding their own against teams of the same standard in their bid to sneak into the postseason.

I don't see why are we revisining history ? Biyombo was brought here to be starter and Vuc was in that moment trade chip for suit more position of need as "Congo twins" were Magic direciton.
But one decided to not play defense and other was flat out dumpster fire on both ends so Magic finded themselfs in position where they could not afford to lose Ibaka for nothing ( traded ) and in situation where Biyombo starts on team with any desire to win more than 5 games in single season. So Vuc stayed.


That inflated market that brought money to centers didn't mean that most of them were not going to be starters. It ment quite opposite, most of them were brought to start or to replace current starters over time. Even biggest stinkers among them like Plumlee (who's competition was injuried Henson and underperforming Monroe at time).

[JF5]

So much happening in this topic...

1. Its hard to determine if Vucevic was a trade chip or not. Yeah they traded for Serge and signed Biyombo but to me they were attempting to have that 3 big Rotation where everybody complimented each others deficiencies. Trying to have a leg up on everyone going small.

2. Gordon was supposed to be the "Future Paul George" as Vogel said before that season started. That is undeniable and can easily be picked up by simple google searches. Even a massive topic here where AG defenders/fans said this was his best position. Obviously it didn't work out and they were left running 2 PFs at both forward positions (which is what is ironically happening now with the team).

3. Hennigan before he was fired in that infamous Lunch-in with Magic fans said they were trying to build around Payton/Gordon/Vucevic... And with all the moves being made prior it seemed like that was the case for all of them besides Payton (who has/is having a hard time anywhere without spacing).

As for trading Vucevic... I don't think there are many deals that are out there that net the Magic what they want. The Only deal that would make sense to me would be trading him for Brandon Ingram who is a better fit next to Issac than AG. Then dealing AG for Dennis Smith Jr. would be made a lot easier (IMO)

Have a deal where you send out Vucevic/Ross for Ingram/Zubac... then deal Gordon for Smith Jr./2nd round Pick

End up having a line-up of

Dennis Smith Jr./DJ Augustin
Evan Fournier/Jonathan Simmons
Brandon Ingram/Jonathan Simmons
Jonathan Issac/Mo Bamba
Ivicia Zubac/Mo Bamba

Then you'd have a ton of cap to spare and you'd be able to go after a star/rebuild your bench while having a nice young core in place.

[woosah]

Iso Ingram and Smith Jr i don't think would work. Both would want to be the guy and i can see ball hogging. Of course Clifford could kill that but just saying.

It's always interesting how people see the moves. No one knows why moves were made. All we have is theory.

[pepe1991]

I just don't see how logic behind having highest payed player on team- as bench player, 18 mpg adds up.
Even Billy King would not do that.

That notion alone leaves me to belive that orginal plan was to move Vučević (for exp deal? ) and use Green as cap holder to max out Ibaka.

But things didn't really go that way and Hennigan traded Ibaka in last attemp to save his job.

[MagicStarwipe]

Vuc was probably a goner if Ibaka turned out to be his real age and wanted to actually be here and Biz wasn't terrible. They were brought in because Vuc's defense and toughness at the time were awful. He was not getting the job done. That was the general consensus at the time. It was thought that Elfrid and AG would take another step... but also Evan. Then Vogel turned out to be a worse coach than Vaughn. After it was clear Serge had no intentions of being here, we went to buddy ball with AG being an onlooker and Fournier running a lot of plays with EP off the ball which makes no sense if you're trying to make him your future PG. The next season AG got fed up with buddy ball and decided he was going to jack up a lot of shots... which Vogel after some initial blowback eventually let him do. Fournier and Vuc were visibly frustrated all season by AG's step up in aggression.

It all comes down to us having the wrong fit of players who were all young and trying to establish themselves as the man for the team instead of playing together, no patience from Martins and bad coaching hires. All the bad moves sprung from that recipe.

[shadrock]

Obviously they 'can' but I'm asking 'can the team afford the PR hit of trading their first all star since Dwight'?

The problem is, if you don't trade him, you risk losing him for nothing this summer.

I wouldn't take the chance of him walking, optics be damn.

This team needs to stop kidding themselves that PR is even slightly important right now. We are a laughing stock. We cant be scared to make the right move because of freaking PR concern, thats mental, and if that how our front office is thinking then they need to go. We need to be bold, make strong moves, do whats best for the team, and not give a single flying **** what our fans think about it. Even the concept of not wanting to move a player on a .400 team is pretty funny to me.

Win a **** trade and win some **** games. That will solve all your problems with public relations...

[rusoopE]

Haha wonder if the forum loved vuc this much last year

Sent from my 6045B using RealGM mobile app

[VFX]

Saying Ibaka was brought here to "compliment Vuc " is notorious lie as Magic big name FA was Biyombo who was brought to replace Vuc.

Biyombo just happend to be unplayable and showed zero reasons to belive he could be starter.

Magic main logic was to build defensive minded team where they were in same time banking on development of Gordon- to play SF and development of Payton- to be facilitator ( opposite of Oladipo being guy with ball in his hands in late game situations like in previous years ).

Stop revision history

Biyombo was not brought in to replace Vucevic. Biyombo was signed because we were desperately thin in our frontcourt due to the the departures of Frye, Ilyasova, Dedmon, Smith, and Nicholson. By moving Gordon to the three spot in the starting rotation, we effectively had zero backups on the roster for Vucevic and Ibaka.

The terms of Biyombo's contract were not reflective of his status with the organization, but rather they were the result of exceptionally poor planning by Hennigan. We walked into a seller's market with a desperate need for frontcourt help.

In that summer:

BISMACK BIYOMBO: 4 years, $72 million with Magic

TIMOFEY MOZGOV: 4 years, $64 million with Lakers
ANDRE DRUMMOND: 5 years, $130 million with Pistons
HASSAN WHITESIDE: 4-years, $98 million with Heat
DWIGHT HOWARD: 3 years, $70 million with Hawks
JOAKIM NOAH: 4 years, $72 million with Knicks
JON LEUER: 4 years, $42 million with Pistons
AL HORFORD: 4 years, $113 million with the Celtics
IAN MAHINMI: 4 years, $64 million with the Wizards
COLE ALDRICH: 3 years, $22 million with Timberwolves
MEYERS LEONARD: 4 years, $41 million with Blazers
MILES PLUMLEE: 4 years, $52 million with Bucks

Every Vucevic fanboy in this forum had been droning on about how Ibaka was the perfect frontcourt partner for Vucevic. I don't know how anyone that was around this forum at that time can refute this.

people were clamoring how Ibaka was the Magical Unicorn to put next to Vuc who couldn't play defense. It was Vuc can focus on offense give minimal effort on defense and Ibaka would handle the rest

To be honest, everyone was wrong about Ibaka and Biz. Orlando should have invested that money in some offensive production at positions that actually impact that game. Elf and Fournier weren’t cutting it and we still lack a backcourt. Also, none of the overpaid bigs on that list were on winning teams apart from maybe Horford.

[basketballRob]

Saying Ibaka was brought here to "compliment Vuc " is notorious lie as Magic big name FA was Biyombo who was brought to replace Vuc.

Biyombo just happend to be unplayable and showed zero reasons to belive he could be starter.

Magic main logic was to build defensive minded team where they were in same time banking on development of Gordon- to play SF and development of Payton- to be facilitator ( opposite of Oladipo being guy with ball in his hands in late game situations like in previous years ).

Stop revision history

Biyombo was not brought in to replace Vucevic. Biyombo was signed because we were desperately thin in our frontcourt due to the the departures of Frye, Ilyasova, Dedmon, Smith, and Nicholson. By moving Gordon to the three spot in the starting rotation, we effectively had zero backups on the roster for Vucevic and Ibaka.

The terms of Biyombo's contract were not reflective of his status with the organization, but rather they were the result of exceptionally poor planning by Hennigan. We walked into a seller's market with a desperate need for frontcourt help.

In that summer:

BISMACK BIYOMBO: 4 years, $72 million with Magic

TIMOFEY MOZGOV: 4 years, $64 million with Lakers
ANDRE DRUMMOND: 5 years, $130 million with Pistons
HASSAN WHITESIDE: 4-years, $98 million with Heat
DWIGHT HOWARD: 3 years, $70 million with Hawks
JOAKIM NOAH: 4 years, $72 million with Knicks
JON LEUER: 4 years, $42 million with Pistons
AL HORFORD: 4 years, $113 million with the Celtics
IAN MAHINMI: 4 years, $64 million with the Wizards
COLE ALDRICH: 3 years, $22 million with Timberwolves
MEYERS LEONARD: 4 years, $41 million with Blazers
MILES PLUMLEE: 4 years, $52 million with Bucks

Every Vucevic fanboy in this forum had been droning on about how Ibaka was the perfect frontcourt partner for Vucevic. I don't know how anyone that was around this forum at that time can refute this.

I think most of us were trying to put positive spin on the trade.

It's safe to say the Ibaka trade divided the team even more. One faction with Vuc and the other on Ibaka's side.

Toronto has chosen to play Ibaka at center over Jonas. We did decided to stick it out with Vuc who isn't as good as Jonas.

Valanciunas is a free agent next year too, for all the fanboys who think Vuc is going to get a huge contract next year

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[pepe1991]

Saying Ibaka was brought here to "compliment Vuc " is notorious lie as Magic big name FA was Biyombo who was brought to replace Vuc.

Biyombo just happend to be unplayable and showed zero reasons to belive he could be starter.

Magic main logic was to build defensive minded team where they were in same time banking on development of Gordon- to play SF and development of Payton- to be facilitator ( opposite of Oladipo being guy with ball in his hands in late game situations like in previous years ).

Stop revision history

Biyombo was not brought in to replace Vucevic. Biyombo was signed because we were desperately thin in our frontcourt due to the the departures of Frye, Ilyasova, Dedmon, Smith, and Nicholson. By moving Gordon to the three spot in the starting rotation, we effectively had zero backups on the roster for Vucevic and Ibaka.

The terms of Biyombo's contract were not reflective of his status with the organization, but rather they were the result of exceptionally poor planning by Hennigan. We walked into a seller's market with a desperate need for frontcourt help.

In that summer:

BISMACK BIYOMBO: 4 years, $72 million with Magic

TIMOFEY MOZGOV: 4 years, $64 million with Lakers
ANDRE DRUMMOND: 5 years, $130 million with Pistons
HASSAN WHITESIDE: 4-years, $98 million with Heat
DWIGHT HOWARD: 3 years, $70 million with Hawks
JOAKIM NOAH: 4 years, $72 million with Knicks
JON LEUER: 4 years, $42 million with Pistons
AL HORFORD: 4 years, $113 million with the Celtics
IAN MAHINMI: 4 years, $64 million with the Wizards
COLE ALDRICH: 3 years, $22 million with Timberwolves
MEYERS LEONARD: 4 years, $41 million with Blazers
MILES PLUMLEE: 4 years, $52 million with Bucks

Every Vucevic fanboy in this forum had been droning on about how Ibaka was the perfect frontcourt partner for Vucevic. I don't know how anyone that was around this forum at that time can refute this.

I think most of us were trying to put positive spin on the trade.

It's safe to say the Ibaka trade divided the team even more. One faction with Vuc and the other on Ibaka's side.

Toronto has chosen to play Ibaka at center over Jonas. We did decided to stick it out with Vuc who isn't as good as Jonas.

Valanciunas is a free agent next year too, for all the fanboys who think Vuc is going to get a huge contract next year

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

. We did decided to stick it out with Vuc who isn't as good as Jonas.

[ZeusIsLoose]

Saying Ibaka was brought here to "compliment Vuc " is notorious lie as Magic big name FA was Biyombo who was brought to replace Vuc.

Biyombo just happend to be unplayable and showed zero reasons to belive he could be starter.

Magic main logic was to build defensive minded team where they were in same time banking on development of Gordon- to play SF and development of Payton- to be facilitator ( opposite of Oladipo being guy with ball in his hands in late game situations like in previous years ).

Stop revision history

Biyombo was not brought in to replace Vucevic. Biyombo was signed because we were desperately thin in our frontcourt due to the the departures of Frye, Ilyasova, Dedmon, Smith, and Nicholson. By moving Gordon to the three spot in the starting rotation, we effectively had zero backups on the roster for Vucevic and Ibaka.

The terms of Biyombo's contract were not reflective of his status with the organization, but rather they were the result of exceptionally poor planning by Hennigan. We walked into a seller's market with a desperate need for frontcourt help.

In that summer:

BISMACK BIYOMBO: 4 years, $72 million with Magic

TIMOFEY MOZGOV: 4 years, $64 million with Lakers
ANDRE DRUMMOND: 5 years, $130 million with Pistons
HASSAN WHITESIDE: 4-years, $98 million with Heat
DWIGHT HOWARD: 3 years, $70 million with Hawks
JOAKIM NOAH: 4 years, $72 million with Knicks
JON LEUER: 4 years, $42 million with Pistons
AL HORFORD: 4 years, $113 million with the Celtics
IAN MAHINMI: 4 years, $64 million with the Wizards
COLE ALDRICH: 3 years, $22 million with Timberwolves
MEYERS LEONARD: 4 years, $41 million with Blazers
MILES PLUMLEE: 4 years, $52 million with Bucks

Every Vucevic fanboy in this forum had been droning on about how Ibaka was the perfect frontcourt partner for Vucevic. I don't know how anyone that was around this forum at that time can refute this.

You just debunked your own point with your examples.
Everybody from your list who got anywhere near Biyombo's lengt of contract and amount of money per year was viewed as - starters or guys brought up to replace starters.

This is Vogel's qoute for Biyombo after a trade

"He [Bismack Biyombo] was our primary target in free agency," said Vogel during the introduction of Biyombo last month. "Biz is a guy who’s going to come in and help us establish this identity that has been successful for me in Indiana that we want to bring here."

Whole Vuc is being traded thing was so out there and common sense that most of other fans and blogs and writers were talking about potential buyers for Vuc.

It didn't take long for ESPN to pick up a story about Vuc trade so in december of 2016 we had Nick SIlva writing this

There has been some speculation over the past 12 months that Magic center Nikola Vucevic might be made available, and the rumors could surface again since head coach Frank Vogel recently benched Vucevic and moved Biyombo into the starting lineup.”

Brian Windhorst went to podcast and flat out said that Magic were shopping Vučević in week when Biyombo was promoted as starter.


More of credible sources

Marc Stein:

Most rival executives expect the Magic to rank among the league’s most active teams between now and the Feb. 23 trade deadline; Nikola Vucevic, Mario Hezonja and Elfrid Payton have all been rumored to be in play. Orlando, though, is quietly 11-8 against sub-.500 teams, which actually ranks as the East’s best record among the seven clubs in the conference currently outside the top eight. The Magic, in other words, are holding their own against teams of the same standard in their bid to sneak into the postseason.

I don't see why are we revisining history ? Biyombo was brought here to be starter and Vuc was in that moment trade chip for suit more position of need as "Congo twins" were Magic direciton.
But one decided to not play defense and other was flat out dumpster fire on both ends so Magic finded themselfs in position where they could not afford to lose Ibaka for nothing ( traded ) and in situation where Biyombo starts on team with any desire to win more than 5 games in single season. So Vuc stayed.


That inflated market that brought money to centers didn't mean that most of them were not going to be starters. It ment quite opposite, most of them were brought to start or to replace current starters over time. Even biggest stinkers among them like Plumlee (who's competition was injuried Henson and underperforming Monroe at time).

First off, Dedmond didnt come back because the Magic elected not to re-sign him to a cheaper deal than Biz. Second, I think Henny signed Biz before he knew what kind of deals there were for Vooch. When they were crap, he decided to keep him. That offseason, the Front Office was sooooo desperate to get back to the playoffs, they didnt stop to realize what they really had.