Regular Season Game 69: Orlando Magic (31-37) at Washington Wizardss (28-39)

[Ducklett]

Evan is no longer a starting NBA player in this league. Change my mind.

[I Rasharted]

Isaac played pretty good for a bit there. Otherwise this team can eat my shorts.

[j-ragg]

Isaac played pretty good for a bit there. Otherwise this team can eat my shorts.

He played really well in the 3rd then got rewarded with like 2 minutes in the 4th.

[VFX]

Games likes this is why i'm not happy with beating good teams without their best players. It just gives people false expectationS.


anyway, the key for us all year have been tross scoring off the bench. The guy isnt consistent. Thats the problem.

Beating top 5-8 teams without their best players, especially when the stakes are low for them at this point in the season, matters very little. Losing to New York, Chicago, Washington, Memphis, Cleveland, etc. is a sign of bigger problems.

I don’t know how anyone could be slightly invested in this roster after the last stretch of games. The last somewhat feel-good win was against the Pacers at home. Even they didn’t have Oladipo to reflect where their record sits right now, despite being a very capable team.

[Popsicle1228]

Magic main issuse is offense, as result of poor PG plays and poor floor spacing. But i talked about it through whole summer so it's pointless to keep harping about same topic, yet still team did nothing to adresss problem.
I'll just copy past my opp comment

him (Gordon) and Isaac simply can’t be your wings, to add more scoring Clifford is forced to play Ross through whole 4th quaters, and Ross is coint toss player, one game he’ll win you game, in other 2 he will shoot you out of it.

Guy shoots 46,7% FG in Ws
38,9% FG in Ls.
His TS in wins is 59%, in Ls 50%,
+/- in wins +14,7 , in Ls -18,1.

After allstar break his TS% slipped from 55% to 51 as he shoots below 36% overall.

Overall Magic flat out suffer from lack of shooting treats at wing. Almost all Isaac and Gordon 3s are ranked as "open " and "wide open" by nba.com. Even when they make 3s they don’t streach defense. Amount of shots they got while being open is best example of it , defenders don't glue to them, rather drift around and gamble on their shots.

Gordon shoots 34% for 3 on 164 attemps when closest defender is at least 6 feet away from him.
Isaac shoots 33% for 3 on 129 attemps when closest defender is at least 6 feet away for him.
Should i even talk about Iwundu and his shooting?

They simply don’t getting job done as marksman that are pivotal for funcional offense.
For example, on Clippers ( not far off in terms of talent, also lacking star ) prior trade to Philly, Harris ( 42,9%) and Gallinari (53 ,1%) shot for 3 while being wide open. Difference is night and day. That’s 10 and 20% turnaround that keeps defense honest and on heels, instad of hogging paint. When you add to that Evan’s struggle to hit anything from outside this year your whole floor geometry collapses under pressure in paint.

Comparing Magic wing shooting to other teams results similar stat disparity.
Nuggets, who have Jokić who does similar things ( just better on offense in terms of passing ) to Vuc, have Beasley, Murray,Morris and Hernagomez who, on 591 shot attemp being "wide open" knocked down 261 of them. That's 44% . In mean time DJ Augustin is ONLY Magic player who shoots 44% or better for 3 while being wide open (Ross,Vuc and Evan sitting at 42% as closest to that ).

When you build roster where :
PG is too small and is backup
SG has bad year
SF is PF
PF should be small ball C
C -gets blame for virtually no reason from fans

bench:
PG - non nba player
SG- yolo mode
SF - non nba player
PF - does not exist
C- as cheaf Ramsey would say " fish so raw still looks for Nemo"

You simply don't have objective reason to expect playoffs.

One of the best and simplest descriptions of Ross as a player that I have ever seen. YOLO mode

[OrlandoSaban]

As much as I am a big Magic fan, I am throwing in the towel. I race home every night to watch them (Most games start at 6:00 where I live)

I like a few guys on the team (Ross and JI) - I like the Coach. Some games I like Vuc but his "I don't give a **** attitude and laziness on defense drives me crazy.

[Knightro]

Beating top 5-8 teams without their best players, especially when the stakes are low for them at this point in the season, matters very little. Losing to New York, Chicago, Washington, Memphis, Cleveland, etc. is a sign of bigger problems.

I don’t know how anyone could be slightly invested in this roster after the last stretch of games. The last somewhat feel-good win was against the Pacers at home. Even they didn’t have Oladipo to reflect where their record sits right now, despite being a very capable team.

They are what they are. A mid 30s win roster.

The real question for me is, what's next?

They showed with Clifford and better health they had the capability of jumping from 25 to 35.

Do they have the capability to make another jump next year to 45? Doesn't seem likely whatsoever with the way the roster is presently constructed.

Are they willing to go BACKWARDS to 25 wins (or less) in 2019 to give them a better chance at getting to 45 wins in 2020 or 2021?

They probably should be, but I don't think they will be.

[swarlesbarkley]

When you build roster where :
PG is too small and is backup
SG has bad year
SF is PF
PF should be small ball C
C -gets blame for virtually no reason from fans

Vooch is a fine player, and it's probably not his fault that he's thrown into a leadership position because he doesn't have that kind of talent, but he is currently the leader of this team and he often plays like he doesn't care. I'm well aware that's me projecting and assuming what's going on in his head, but since the all star break he hasn't shown much of anything on the defensive side which is where a player can show leadership on the court. The most fire we've seen from him since the break has been when he short-man syndromed a tech after getting bullied by a lesser player (can't remember the game/player now because he's been bullied by quite a few scrubs lately).

I'm sure he is much better suited to be a 2nd or 3rd option on a great team, but he's currently our 1st option/leader/all star and deserves every bit of the criticism he's receiving for completely throwing away a chance at the playoffs against Chicago, Cleveland, Memphis, New York, and Washington.

It wouldn't be terrible if he signed somewhere else this offseason to force management into finding a different 1st option that plays with leadership and a faster pace to take advantage of our young guys.

[Optimus_Steel]

It's not "lack of effort" it's simply lack of talent.
Vuc is good/great nba player, Ross has nights where he can look like useful player but overall he isn't worth gamble ( coin toss type player ) on better team.

Rest of a roster is replacment level/role players who would not be starters on good teams and some of them would not even be in rotation of better teams.

Clifford is forced to play Ross in 4th quaters as he is only player capable of scoring on set defense and only guard/wing on roster who actually draws some attention from defense.

Anyway, when you see healthy Heat roster Dragić Whiteside, Waiters, Wade, Winslow, Richardson, Adebayo, it's no suprise they are in playoffs, simply more talented team.

Magic have mishmash of "defenders" in league where nobody defense and crazy amount of non shooters in league where everybody shoots.
Drafting Bamba , Isaac, Iwundu, Frazier through 2 years is all you need to know . Old farts getting runned over by modern nba.

Its not Vuc or Ross or anyone one player. This team simply lacks talent up and down the roster. We have no player that can get to the basket and score or draw fouls. Or a player you can give the ball to and say here get me a basket. We have some good shooters but overall a poor shooting roster. The bench is very thin and limited in terms of raw talent. The PG plays is limited at best. There is also a mismatch or talent with too many frontcourt players and not enough perimeter talent. That's not on one player, that's on management and team ownership. There is some talent on the team but overall its a poorly talented team as compared to the rest of the NBA.

[Bergmaniac]

We just don't have players who can consistently score or create down the stretch when the opposing defence gives full effort and the refs allow more contact. That's been the biggest issue all year. Last night was one of the worst examples since we couldn't create any good looks down the stretch and had to resort to Ross or DJ taking extremely tough shots. DJ is a great shooter, but really not much of a playmaker, Evan has lost a step this season and really struggles when defences tighten up to create separation, Gordon doesn't have the ballhandling skills to get good looks consistently in these situations, and Vucevic has struggled mightily to score in the clutch most of the season, even when he was great in almost all other areas, and that's become even more of an issue lately.

Not surprisingly, we have the worst offensive efficiency in the clutch of all teams in the league - https://stats.nba.com/teams/clutch-advanced/?sort=OFF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season . And what's more annoying is that we are actually a very good defensive team in the clutch (7th in the league), so we don't need to be all that good offensively, just by being decent we would have won a lot more games, but alas...

[MartinsIzAfraud]

This team is compiled of some of the softest players I have ever seen. They get down and hang the heads as if they're middle schoolers. You NEVER hear of a team only meeting or anyone calling out "The Team" its always x player saying I need to get better etc etc.

Year 7 or is it 8 and we got fooled again

[OrlChamps2030]

This team is compiled of some of the softest players I have ever seen. They get down and hang the heads as if they're middle schoolers. You NEVER hear of a team only meeting or anyone calling out "The Team" its always x player saying I need to get better etc etc.

Year 7 or is it 8 and we got fooled again

This team would be a national embarrassment in the playoffs. I succumbed to rooting for the playoff push but I may revert back to rooting for losses. Still plenty of time to secure a top 7-10 pick.

[drsd]

When you build roster where :
PG is too small and is backup
SG has bad year
SF is PF
PF should be small ball C
C -gets blame for virtually no reason from fans

bench:
PG - non nba player
SG- yolo mode
SF - non nba player
PF - does not exist
C- as cheaf Ramsey would say " fish so raw still looks for Nemo"

You simply don't have objective reason to expect playoffs.

One could quibble her or there, but this clearly reflects the record of the Magic.

Orlando lacks talent and thus loses games.

/..

[VFX]

Beating top 5-8 teams without their best players, especially when the stakes are low for them at this point in the season, matters very little. Losing to New York, Chicago, Washington, Memphis, Cleveland, etc. is a sign of bigger problems.

I don’t know how anyone could be slightly invested in this roster after the last stretch of games. The last somewhat feel-good win was against the Pacers at home. Even they didn’t have Oladipo to reflect where their record sits right now, despite being a very capable team.

They are what they are. A mid 30s win roster.

The real question for me is, what's next?

They showed with Clifford and better health they had the capability of jumping from 25 to 35.

Do they have the capability to make another jump next year to 45? Doesn't seem likely whatsoever with the way the roster is presently constructed.

Are they willing to go BACKWARDS to 25 wins (or less) in 2019 to give them a better chance at getting to 45 wins in 2020 or 2021?

They probably should be, but I don't think they will be.

This is why I’m not a fan of WeHam at all. They are just trying to meet the demands of ownership by keeping Orlando competitive, when we simply lack the talent to do so. This roster isn’t good and has had the same problems for years. They should have traded Ross and Vuc before the deadline but here we are.

I’m praying we don’t bring back Vuc. Why? Because I want them to actually do their goddamn jobs and solve the nonexistent offense. This team is massively boring, one dimensional, and too dependent on his play in the post. Not only that, but there is no room for growth on that end unless people believe Fultz is going to be the solution. Defensive potential is only interesting if you have players that can put away the competition.

[pepe1991]

Beating top 5-8 teams without their best players, especially when the stakes are low for them at this point in the season, matters very little. Losing to New York, Chicago, Washington, Memphis, Cleveland, etc. is a sign of bigger problems.

I don’t know how anyone could be slightly invested in this roster after the last stretch of games. The last somewhat feel-good win was against the Pacers at home. Even they didn’t have Oladipo to reflect where their record sits right now, despite being a very capable team.

They are what they are. A mid 30s win roster.

The real question for me is, what's next?

They showed with Clifford and better health they had the capability of jumping from 25 to 35.

Do they have the capability to make another jump next year to 45? Doesn't seem likely whatsoever with the way the roster is presently constructed.

Are they willing to go BACKWARDS to 25 wins (or less) in 2019 to give them a better chance at getting to 45 wins in 2020 or 2021?

They probably should be, but I don't think they will be.

This is why I’m not a fan of WeHam at all. They are just trying to meet the demands of ownership by keeping Orlando competitive, when we simply lack the talent to do so. This roster isn’t good and has had the same problems for years. They should have traded Ross and Vuc before the deadline but here we are.

I’m praying we don’t bring back Vuc. Why? Because I want them to actually do their goddamn jobs and solve the nonexistent offense. This team is massively boring, one dimensional, and too dependent on his play in the post. Not only that, but there is no room for growth on that end unless people believe Fultz is going to be the solution. Defensive potential is only interesting if you have players that can put away the competition.

Lot of us cried before deadline about lack of direction and they didn't trade Vuc and Ross, and instad of than -getting actual contributor for playoffs and hunt for 6th seed - they made a trade for Fultz .And after that they refuse to acknowledge that guy won't play this season ( just like Bamba ) because it would be bad PR and could impact ticket sell. And because Markelle missing esencially second year in a row would mean putting spotlight on their moves.

Must feel great being GM in Orlando, doing nothing most of the time, you are payed like all other GMs , just you get zero attention from media because frankly, nobody cares about Orlando Magic.

[VFX]

They are what they are. A mid 30s win roster.

The real question for me is, what's next?

They showed with Clifford and better health they had the capability of jumping from 25 to 35.

Do they have the capability to make another jump next year to 45? Doesn't seem likely whatsoever with the way the roster is presently constructed.

Are they willing to go BACKWARDS to 25 wins (or less) in 2019 to give them a better chance at getting to 45 wins in 2020 or 2021?

They probably should be, but I don't think they will be.

This is why I’m not a fan of WeHam at all. They are just trying to meet the demands of ownership by keeping Orlando competitive, when we simply lack the talent to do so. This roster isn’t good and has had the same problems for years. They should have traded Ross and Vuc before the deadline but here we are.

I’m praying we don’t bring back Vuc. Why? Because I want them to actually do their goddamn jobs and solve the nonexistent offense. This team is massively boring, one dimensional, and too dependent on his play in the post. Not only that, but there is no room for growth on that end unless people believe Fultz is going to be the solution. Defensive potential is only interesting if you have players that can put away the competition.

Lot of us cried before deadline about lack of direction and they didn't trade Vuc and Ross, and instad of than -getting actual contributor for playoffs and hunt for 6th seed - they made a trade for Fultz .And after that they refuse to acknowledge that guy won't play this season ( just like Bamba ) because it would be bad PR and could impact ticket sell. And because Markelle missing esencially second year in a row would mean putting spotlight on their moves.

Must feel great being GM in Orlando, doing nothing most of the time, you are payed like all other GMs , just you get zero attention from media because frankly, nobody cares about Orlando Magic.

That’s the issue. I have no problem with what they did with Fultz. Actually, I’m happy they made A move for the future for once. They negated that by putting themselves in a position to win now with this roster despite not having the necessary talent.

Trading Vuc would have been a powerful GM move. Instead, they went with the “let’s wait and see” approach again and it’ll cost them everything if Orlando misses the playoffs. No glorious “playoff experience” that people keep harping about as some kind of overwhelming metric that will make Orlando relevant again. Simultaneously Orlando will miss the elite talent that we desperately need on this roster by picking in the back of the lottery.

They have nowhere to go now and are starting from square one if they don’t resign them to prop up the fake offense they never built or addressed. Doubtful they choose that path and concede they made the wrong choices. If they don’t want to look incompetent or take risks, they’ll just resign them for whatever and keep Orlando mediocre.

[GameOver25]

Never thought it'd come to this, but I haven't watched the last 4 games and think it's done wonders. Still read the thread after each game and sucks to see nothing has changed with Trashgic, but it feels good knowing that I didn't have to witness it with my own eyes.

[Optimus_Steel]

We just don't have players who can consistently score or create down the stretch when the opposing defence gives full effort and the refs allow more contact. That's been the biggest issue all year. Last night was one of the worst examples since we couldn't create any good looks down the stretch and had to resort to Ross or DJ taking extremely tough shots. DJ is a great shooter, but really not much of a playmaker, Evan has lost a step this season and really struggles when defences tighten up to create separation, Gordon doesn't have the ballhandling skills to get good looks consistently in these situations, and Vucevic has struggled mightily to score in the clutch most of the season, even when he was great in almost all other areas, and that's become even more of an issue lately.

Not surprisingly, we have the worst offensive efficiency in the clutch of all teams in the league - https://stats.nba.com/teams/clutch-advanced/?sort=OFF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season . And what's more annoying is that we are actually a very good defensive team in the clutch (7th in the league), so we don't need to be all that good offensively, just by being decent we would have won a lot more games, but alas...

This really shows how bad we are in the clutch. Its not just the eye test, the numbers test bare it out. Unless this team has a large 4th quarter lead they lose, and even having a nice lead is an adventure just to hang on.