ImageImageImageImage

Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (2-0) at Atlanta Hawks (0-1)

Moderators: Knightro, Howard Mass, SOUL, Def Swami, UCF, UCFJayBird, ChosenSavior

jayrehme
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,466
And1: 345
Joined: Feb 15, 2006
Location: Fort Myers, FL
 

Re: Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (2-0) at Atlanta Hawks (0-1) 

Post#221 » by jayrehme » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:50 pm

SOUL wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:I just think it's important to realize the impact Isaac can have for a team. I don't think its a coincidence that the one year Isaac played at FSU they had their best regular-season record in program history. I also don't think its a coincidence that adding a healthy Isaac to virtually the same roster we had the previous season helped turn us into a playoff team and top 10 defense.

It's just so incredibly rare to have a 22-year old that can already affect the game defensively (in basically his second year) like he does. He is going to be on a lot of very good NBA teams in his career and will rack up all-defensive team selections. Won't be surprised in the least if he gets a DPOY award or two either.

I just don't see how some arent sold.


It's mostly just a lot of strawman arguments and long-winded posts about how he's not a great offensive player at 21 or something. Anybody that watches him play knows his impact even if the numbers aren't there, which happened a bit last year.


I've noticed Isaac's awareness on defense is translating to offense this year as well. He just has a high basketball IQ and his skills are catching up. The guy's ceiling is through the roof.
Nyce_1
RealGM
Posts: 10,636
And1: 4,645
Joined: Jun 29, 2009
Location: Tampa
 

Re: Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (2-0) at Atlanta Hawks (0-1) 

Post#222 » by Nyce_1 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:53 pm

man...i love Markelle. Kid is going to be a beast and we're so lucky to have him.

it's been just 3 games but you see him getting more comfortable. 33 games in 2 years...of course there will be rust. He's working himself back to regaining his feel for the game and I see the progression over 3 games. I'm not worried about layups or makes/misses. His shots will fall. However, MAN.....his defensive potential, IQ, passing and athleticism....I'm beyond excited about his potential and fit on our team.

What makes me more excited is I'll be moving back to Orlando and can catch these games live.
magicman112
Head Coach
Posts: 6,949
And1: 1,755
Joined: Oct 31, 2001

Re: Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (2-0) at Atlanta Hawks (0-1) 

Post#223 » by magicman112 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:03 pm

Nyce_1 wrote:man...i love Markelle. Kid is going to be a beast and we're so lucky to have him.

it's been just 3 games but you see him getting more comfortable. 33 games in 2 years...of course there will be rust. He's working himself back to regaining his feel for the game and I see the progression over 3 games. I'm not worried about layups or makes/misses. His shots will fall. However, MAN.....his defensive potential, IQ, passing and athleticism....I'm beyond excited about his potential and fit on our team.

What makes me more excited is I'll be moving back to Orlando and can catch these games live.


Yeah he brings things to the table that this team has been missing for awhile. Like the exchange where he got the steal and then got it up the court to Frazier.
User avatar
swarlesbarkley
Starter
Posts: 2,004
And1: 1,061
Joined: Jun 18, 2014
   

Re: Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (2-0) at Atlanta Hawks (0-1) 

Post#224 » by swarlesbarkley » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:17 pm

Vuc is off to a rough start shooting 13/29 from the field. Looks super soft out there and weak mentally (fouled out in the 3rd quarter in Detroit!?). Just preseason, obviously, but hopefully that all improves.
Xatticus
Analyst
Posts: 3,639
And1: 3,396
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
         

Re: Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (2-0) at Atlanta Hawks (0-1) 

Post#225 » by Xatticus » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:21 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:Pepe is going to die on the Isaac isn’t any good hill. Just like he is still dying on the “AG will forever be a limited offensive player” hill that dates back all the way to 2016. I mean he said the other day that Isaac will be a borderline rotational player in this league and isn’t a starter.

Despite all we have seen from him, at 22 in basically his sophomore year he is already convinced of that. It’s a lost cause


Wait, Gordon isn't limited offensive player ?

OBPM negative, well below average TS% for position, still below average 3 point shot, among PFs 23rd in ORPM , right there with Marvin Wiliams and Kaminsky .

Guy puts up points because he shoots 13 times a game, also, by eFG, below league average.

So in Gordon's case, half of decade and counting, i was right. ON Payton - i was right, on Trae inability to shoot with any efficiency ( so far ) - i was right. On Lonzo inabilty to shoot from college- i was right. I also wanted no part of Cam Reddish so let's see how that plays out.
On flip side i was first on Dončić hype train in times this place used Hezonja and JJ Redick comparisons :roll:

Recently i jumped on Lavine bandwagon, i belive that guy will be breakout star this year . Does too many things well not to, has terrible BBIQ but that could be fixed with Satoransky, Porter and Lauri next to him, making decision making bit easier.


I suppose it depends on your definition of limited, but I think Gordon has far exceeded whatever the intent was in 2016. I mean, if we are to parse the language on a literal level, everyone is limited offensively.

And I would highly recommend that you use RPM when it is available. BPM utilizes box scores to offer a rudimentary approximation of RPM. Because we don't have historical data for RPM, BPM allows us to compare players of different eras, but keep in mind that it isn't actually the same thing.
magicman112
Head Coach
Posts: 6,949
And1: 1,755
Joined: Oct 31, 2001

Re: Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (2-0) at Atlanta Hawks (0-1) 

Post#226 » by magicman112 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:38 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
SOUL wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Call me when Isaac puts up 20ppg season :roll:


Are you still not impressed with Isaac? It takes a lot of reasoning not to like him right now, especially with improved passing and even if he only gets *slightly* better on offense this year with the defense he's shown.



When you draft player at 6# you want star or superstar, not complimentary player. Isaac is definition of complimentary player. Even right now , when in preseason (...preseason, another reason why i don't care) ,when everybody rave about him, he only puts 11 PPG on 40% FG despite playing more than other starters and having free reign to do whatever he wants on offense, especially when he plays with camp players and backups, yet he still plays in same fashion no matter what.

Once again, i don't care about preseason, i'm yet to post anything about Fultz since he returned, despite him shooting like he is 50s basketball player.

There are s*** loud of supertalented ,proven players who look like crap during preseason because they don't really care or use preseason to try stuff , Jazz Conley and Bogdanovic were 0-14 FG for a night and on other side of spectrum you have Jah Okafor and Dragan Bender who out of nowhere in preseason look like legit players. Bender is averaging 11 points and 2 blocks a game while shooting 50% for 3.

Just use that as context, preseason and guys who will be third string bigs and Isaac, Gordon, Vuc, Gobert, Griffin,Drummon, ( you name it) are averaging same numbers. That's why i simply don't give a crap about preseason and find overreaction based on basically "practice" games hilarious.


Here's the players picked sixth over the past 10 years.

2009 Jonny Flynn
2010 Ekpe Udoh
2011 Jan Vesely
2012 Damian Lillard
2013 Nerlens Noel
2014 Marcus Smart
2015 Willie Cauley-Stein
2016 Buddy Hield
2017 JI
2018 Mo
2019 Jarret Culver

There's one star there. Of course you want a star or superstar with anyone you pick but that's the thing with the draft as I'm sure you know. I do agree with you that preseason is meaningless in the long run and you shouldn't put too much stock into what you see in those games.
User avatar
rcklsscognition
RealGM
Posts: 21,346
And1: 6,622
Joined: Mar 23, 2009
Contact:
 

Re: Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (2-0) at Atlanta Hawks (0-1) 

Post#227 » by rcklsscognition » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:41 pm

Fultz is good on defense around screens, I am very pleased.
Image
pepe1991
General Manager
Posts: 9,899
And1: 7,939
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (2-0) at Atlanta Hawks (0-1) 

Post#228 » by pepe1991 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:50 pm

Xatticus wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:Pepe is going to die on the Isaac isn’t any good hill. Just like he is still dying on the “AG will forever be a limited offensive player” hill that dates back all the way to 2016. I mean he said the other day that Isaac will be a borderline rotational player in this league and isn’t a starter.

Despite all we have seen from him, at 22 in basically his sophomore year he is already convinced of that. It’s a lost cause


Wait, Gordon isn't limited offensive player ?

OBPM negative, well below average TS% for position, still below average 3 point shot, among PFs 23rd in ORPM , right there with Marvin Wiliams and Kaminsky .

Guy puts up points because he shoots 13 times a game, also, by eFG, below league average.

So in Gordon's case, half of decade and counting, i was right. ON Payton - i was right, on Trae inability to shoot with any efficiency ( so far ) - i was right. On Lonzo inabilty to shoot from college- i was right. I also wanted no part of Cam Reddish so let's see how that plays out.
On flip side i was first on Dončić hype train in times this place used Hezonja and JJ Redick comparisons :roll:

Recently i jumped on Lavine bandwagon, i belive that guy will be breakout star this year . Does too many things well not to, has terrible BBIQ but that could be fixed with Satoransky, Porter and Lauri next to him, making decision making bit easier.


I suppose it depends on your definition of limited, but I think Gordon has far exceeded whatever the intent was in 2016. I mean, if we are to parse the language on a literal level, everyone is limited offensively.

And I would highly recommend that you use RPM when it is available. BPM utilizes box scores to offer a rudimentary approximation of RPM. Because we don't have historical data for RPM, BPM allows us to compare players of different eras, but keep in mind that it isn't actually the same thing.



His RPM last year was 0,87 , that's 24th among PFs , behind Noel ,ahead of Noah Vonleh.
Compared to SFs ,he would be ranked 20#, below Daniel House Jr, ahead of Royce O'neal and Moe Harkless.


On greater scale, using all players that made a list, he was just outside top 100 players, 106#, with Khem Birch, Cory Joseph, bit worst than Marjanovic, and again, Noel.

Is he really worst than 100 players here? Probably not ,but also there are guys below him like Hield, Booker,Eric Gordon, Bogdanovic,Montrezl Harrell, Derozan who you can make strong argument are better contributors to their taems than Gordon is to his.

Problem with evaluation of Gordon is that he never played with great guard, but in same time he never played on a team where his role would be limited by coach. On Orlando he is easly second best player ,where team's first option shouldn't really be first option. And team's third option, Ross, on most playoff teams would not be option at all because lot of coaches would not touch player that takes shots like prime JR Smith in close games.
"A straight path never leads anywhere except to the objective."
Andre Gide
User avatar
MagicFrenchie
Senior
Posts: 580
And1: 714
Joined: May 17, 2018
Location: Paris
 

Re: Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (2-0) at Atlanta Hawks (0-1) 

Post#229 » by MagicFrenchie » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:54 pm

magicman112 wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:man...i love Markelle. Kid is going to be a beast and we're so lucky to have him.

it's been just 3 games but you see him getting more comfortable. 33 games in 2 years...of course there will be rust. He's working himself back to regaining his feel for the game and I see the progression over 3 games. I'm not worried about layups or makes/misses. His shots will fall. However, MAN.....his defensive potential, IQ, passing and athleticism....I'm beyond excited about his potential and fit on our team.

What makes me more excited is I'll be moving back to Orlando and can catch these games live.


Yeah he brings things to the table that this team has been missing for awhile. Like the exchange where he got the steal and then got it up the court to Frazier.


What I also love is that on the youtube highlights of our preseason games I see a lot of Fultz pictures on the preload, I think he's gonna bring a lot of curious viewers.
pepe1991
General Manager
Posts: 9,899
And1: 7,939
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (2-0) at Atlanta Hawks (0-1) 

Post#230 » by pepe1991 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:58 pm

magicman112 wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
SOUL wrote:
Are you still not impressed with Isaac? It takes a lot of reasoning not to like him right now, especially with improved passing and even if he only gets *slightly* better on offense this year with the defense he's shown.



When you draft player at 6# you want star or superstar, not complimentary player. Isaac is definition of complimentary player. Even right now , when in preseason (...preseason, another reason why i don't care) ,when everybody rave about him, he only puts 11 PPG on 40% FG despite playing more than other starters and having free reign to do whatever he wants on offense, especially when he plays with camp players and backups, yet he still plays in same fashion no matter what.

Once again, i don't care about preseason, i'm yet to post anything about Fultz since he returned, despite him shooting like he is 50s basketball player.

There are s*** loud of supertalented ,proven players who look like crap during preseason because they don't really care or use preseason to try stuff , Jazz Conley and Bogdanovic were 0-14 FG for a night and on other side of spectrum you have Jah Okafor and Dragan Bender who out of nowhere in preseason look like legit players. Bender is averaging 11 points and 2 blocks a game while shooting 50% for 3.

Just use that as context, preseason and guys who will be third string bigs and Isaac, Gordon, Vuc, Gobert, Griffin,Drummon, ( you name it) are averaging same numbers. That's why i simply don't give a crap about preseason and find overreaction based on basically "practice" games hilarious.


Here's the players picked sixth over the past 10 years.

2009 Jonny Flynn
2010 Ekpe Udoh
2011 Jan Vesely
2012 Damian Lillard
2013 Nerlens Noel
2014 Marcus Smart
2015 Willie Cauley-Stein
2016 Buddy Hield
2017 JI
2018 Mo
2019 Jarret Culver

There's one star there. Of course you want a star or superstar with anyone you pick but that's the thing with the draft as I'm sure you know. I do agree with you that preseason is meaningless in the long run and you shouldn't put too much stock into what you see in those games.


Some draft spots are pure f*** ups, 8th pick is historiclly the worst draft pick you can have. But look at 7th and 9th picks that same teams had as alteranatives
7th:
Lauri
Jamal Murray
Randle
Harrison Barnes
Steph Curry
Eric Gordon

9th
Andre Drummond
Kemba
Hayward
Derozan
( this 4 players were drafted 4 years in a row and all 4 were allstars)


So it comes down to simply making wrong decisions. In last few drafts teams flat out missed on Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Mitchell and Devin Booker. All of them were aveliable to grab for any team who drafted top 10 in lottery.
"A straight path never leads anywhere except to the objective."
Andre Gide
User avatar
swarlesbarkley
Starter
Posts: 2,004
And1: 1,061
Joined: Jun 18, 2014
   

Re: Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (2-0) at Atlanta Hawks (0-1) 

Post#231 » by swarlesbarkley » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:05 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Wait, Gordon isn't limited offensive player ?

OBPM negative, well below average TS% for position, still below average 3 point shot, among PFs 23rd in ORPM , right there with Marvin Wiliams and Kaminsky .

Guy puts up points because he shoots 13 times a game, also, by eFG, below league average.

So in Gordon's case, half of decade and counting, i was right. ON Payton - i was right, on Trae inability to shoot with any efficiency ( so far ) - i was right. On Lonzo inabilty to shoot from college- i was right. I also wanted no part of Cam Reddish so let's see how that plays out.
On flip side i was first on Dončić hype train in times this place used Hezonja and JJ Redick comparisons :roll:

Recently i jumped on Lavine bandwagon, i belive that guy will be breakout star this year . Does too many things well not to, has terrible BBIQ but that could be fixed with Satoransky, Porter and Lauri next to him, making decision making bit easier.


I suppose it depends on your definition of limited, but I think Gordon has far exceeded whatever the intent was in 2016. I mean, if we are to parse the language on a literal level, everyone is limited offensively.

And I would highly recommend that you use RPM when it is available. BPM utilizes box scores to offer a rudimentary approximation of RPM. Because we don't have historical data for RPM, BPM allows us to compare players of different eras, but keep in mind that it isn't actually the same thing.



His RPM last year was 0,87 , that's 24th among PFs , behind Noel ,ahead of Noah Vonleh.
Compared to SFs ,he would be ranked 20#, below Daniel House Jr, ahead of Royce O'neal and Moe Harkless.


On greater scale, using all players that made a list, he was just outside top 100 players, 106#, with Khem Birch, Cory Joseph, bit worst than Marjanovic, and again, Noel.

Is he really worst than 100 players here? Probably not ,but also there are guys below him like Hield, Booker,Eric Gordon, Bogdanovic,Montrezl Harrell, Derozan who you can make strong argument are better contributors to their taems than Gordon is to his.

Problem with evaluation of Gordon is that he never played with great guard, but in same time he never played on a team where his role would be limited by coach. On Orlando he is easly second best player ,where team's first option shouldn't really be first option. And team's third option, Ross, on most playoff teams would not be option at all because lot of coaches would not touch player that takes shots like prime JR Smith in close games.


If we're talking about Gordon, he's really the only one who showed up for the entire playoff series against Toronto. Vucevic, an advanced stat dream (8th best RPM in the league last year), was a huge nothing burger for us. I'm typically a stats guy because they are objective, but sometimes they don't tell the whole story. I think that's the case with Gordon and Isaac.

I'm a Minnesota Vikings fan and have been shown, very clearly, why stats sometimes don't tell the whole story. RE: Kirk Cousins.
magicman112
Head Coach
Posts: 6,949
And1: 1,755
Joined: Oct 31, 2001

Re: Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (2-0) at Atlanta Hawks (0-1) 

Post#232 » by magicman112 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:13 pm

swarlesbarkley wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
I suppose it depends on your definition of limited, but I think Gordon has far exceeded whatever the intent was in 2016. I mean, if we are to parse the language on a literal level, everyone is limited offensively.

And I would highly recommend that you use RPM when it is available. BPM utilizes box scores to offer a rudimentary approximation of RPM. Because we don't have historical data for RPM, BPM allows us to compare players of different eras, but keep in mind that it isn't actually the same thing.



His RPM last year was 0,87 , that's 24th among PFs , behind Noel ,ahead of Noah Vonleh.
Compared to SFs ,he would be ranked 20#, below Daniel House Jr, ahead of Royce O'neal and Moe Harkless.


On greater scale, using all players that made a list, he was just outside top 100 players, 106#, with Khem Birch, Cory Joseph, bit worst than Marjanovic, and again, Noel.

Is he really worst than 100 players here? Probably not ,but also there are guys below him like Hield, Booker,Eric Gordon, Bogdanovic,Montrezl Harrell, Derozan who you can make strong argument are better contributors to their taems than Gordon is to his.

Problem with evaluation of Gordon is that he never played with great guard, but in same time he never played on a team where his role would be limited by coach. On Orlando he is easly second best player ,where team's first option shouldn't really be first option. And team's third option, Ross, on most playoff teams would not be option at all because lot of coaches would not touch player that takes shots like prime JR Smith in close games.


If we're talking about Gordon, he's really the only one who showed up for the entire playoff series against Toronto. Vucevic, an advanced stat dream (8th best RPM in the league last year), was a huge nothing burger for us. I'm typically a stats guy because they are objective, but sometimes they don't tell the whole story. I think that's the case with Gordon and Isaac.

I'm a Minnesota Vikings fan and have been shown, very clearly, why stats sometimes don't tell the whole story. RE: Kirk Cousins.


When Vuc wasn't himself in that series I knew any shot we had at winning it was over. Can't have your all-star play like that.
pepe1991
General Manager
Posts: 9,899
And1: 7,939
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (2-0) at Atlanta Hawks (0-1) 

Post#233 » by pepe1991 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:19 pm

swarlesbarkley wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
I suppose it depends on your definition of limited, but I think Gordon has far exceeded whatever the intent was in 2016. I mean, if we are to parse the language on a literal level, everyone is limited offensively.

And I would highly recommend that you use RPM when it is available. BPM utilizes box scores to offer a rudimentary approximation of RPM. Because we don't have historical data for RPM, BPM allows us to compare players of different eras, but keep in mind that it isn't actually the same thing.



His RPM last year was 0,87 , that's 24th among PFs , behind Noel ,ahead of Noah Vonleh.
Compared to SFs ,he would be ranked 20#, below Daniel House Jr, ahead of Royce O'neal and Moe Harkless.


On greater scale, using all players that made a list, he was just outside top 100 players, 106#, with Khem Birch, Cory Joseph, bit worst than Marjanovic, and again, Noel.

Is he really worst than 100 players here? Probably not ,but also there are guys below him like Hield, Booker,Eric Gordon, Bogdanovic,Montrezl Harrell, Derozan who you can make strong argument are better contributors to their taems than Gordon is to his.

Problem with evaluation of Gordon is that he never played with great guard, but in same time he never played on a team where his role would be limited by coach. On Orlando he is easly second best player ,where team's first option shouldn't really be first option. And team's third option, Ross, on most playoff teams would not be option at all because lot of coaches would not touch player that takes shots like prime JR Smith in close games.


If we're talking about Gordon, he's really the only one who showed up for the entire playoff series against Toronto. Vucevic, an advanced stat dream (8th best RPM in the league last year), was a huge nothing burger for us. I'm typically a stats guy because they are objective, but sometimes they don't tell the whole story. I think that's the case with Gordon and Isaac.

I'm a Minnesota Vikings fan and have been shown, very clearly, why stats sometimes don't tell the whole story. RE: Kirk Cousins.



Really? entire playoffs?
Game 1 - 10 points ( 3-10 )
Game 3 - 10 points ( 4-10)
Game 5- 11 points ( 4-11)

He literally had 2 good games , in both games that he had his stats up ( 20 ,25 points) team lost by 20.

But hey "entire playoffs".
Oh once more little nugget about two games he played "well", team was outscored by 60 points while he was on the floor in them.

Greatness.

And don't put words in my mouth, Vuc played like crap whole playoffs. But let's stop pretending that Gordon was some Kawhi- type leve of player out there. He literally stuffed stat sheet in terrible games and layed egg in close ones. His worst game was elimination game , fifth one. Where he was 0-4 for 3, had 4 TOs, 1 assist and game was over after 1 quater.
"A straight path never leads anywhere except to the objective."
Andre Gide
basketballRob
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,344
And1: 1,733
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (2-0) at Atlanta Hawks (0-1) 

Post#234 » by basketballRob » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:27 pm

swarlesbarkley wrote:Vuc is off to a rough start shooting 13/29 from the field. Looks super soft out there and weak mentally (fouled out in the 3rd quarter in Detroit!?). Just preseason, obviously, but hopefully that all improves.
Hopefully he doesn't do what Nick Anderson did. He missed two big Ft's in the Finals and could never shoot FT's again.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
swarlesbarkley
Starter
Posts: 2,004
And1: 1,061
Joined: Jun 18, 2014
   

Re: Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (2-0) at Atlanta Hawks (0-1) 

Post#235 » by swarlesbarkley » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:49 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
swarlesbarkley wrote:If we're talking about Gordon, he's really the only one who showed up for the entire playoff series against Toronto. Vucevic, an advanced stat dream (8th best RPM in the league last year), was a huge nothing burger for us. I'm typically a stats guy because they are objective, but sometimes they don't tell the whole story. I think that's the case with Gordon and Isaac.

I'm a Minnesota Vikings fan and have been shown, very clearly, why stats sometimes don't tell the whole story. RE: Kirk Cousins.



Really? entire playoffs?
Game 1 - 10 points ( 3-10 )
Game 3 - 10 points ( 4-10)
Game 5- 11 points ( 4-11)

He literally had 2 good games , in both games that he had his stats up ( 20 ,25 points) team lost by 20.

But hey "entire playoffs".
Oh once more little nugget about two games he played "well", team was outscored by 60 points while he was on the floor in them.

Greatness.

And don't put words in my mouth, Vuc played like crap whole playoffs. But let's stop pretending that Gordon was some Kawhi- type leve of player out there. He literally stuffed stat sheet in terrible games and layed egg in close ones. His worst game was elimination game , fifth one. Where he was 0-4 for 3, had 4 TOs, 1 assist and game was over after 1 quater.


I don't think I put words in your mouth?

I'll take Gordon at 47% with Kawhi guarding him for the series over Vuc at 38% with Gasol guarding him. Really don't care if the stats came in big losses - what's he supposed to do, not try to score because they're losing? It's the playoffs. Vuc couldn't even muster average stats in those big losses. So according to you (here's where I am putting words in your mouth), Vuc is either a quitter (doesn't try in big losses), or just can't score even when it's "easier". Whomp whomp.
pepe1991
General Manager
Posts: 9,899
And1: 7,939
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (2-0) at Atlanta Hawks (0-1) 

Post#236 » by pepe1991 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:13 pm

swarlesbarkley wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
swarlesbarkley wrote:If we're talking about Gordon, he's really the only one who showed up for the entire playoff series against Toronto. Vucevic, an advanced stat dream (8th best RPM in the league last year), was a huge nothing burger for us. I'm typically a stats guy because they are objective, but sometimes they don't tell the whole story. I think that's the case with Gordon and Isaac.

I'm a Minnesota Vikings fan and have been shown, very clearly, why stats sometimes don't tell the whole story. RE: Kirk Cousins.



Really? entire playoffs?
Game 1 - 10 points ( 3-10 )
Game 3 - 10 points ( 4-10)
Game 5- 11 points ( 4-11)

He literally had 2 good games , in both games that he had his stats up ( 20 ,25 points) team lost by 20.

But hey "entire playoffs".
Oh once more little nugget about two games he played "well", team was outscored by 60 points while he was on the floor in them.

Greatness.

And don't put words in my mouth, Vuc played like crap whole playoffs. But let's stop pretending that Gordon was some Kawhi- type leve of player out there. He literally stuffed stat sheet in terrible games and layed egg in close ones. His worst game was elimination game , fifth one. Where he was 0-4 for 3, had 4 TOs, 1 assist and game was over after 1 quater.


I don't think I put words in your mouth?

I'll take Gordon at 47% with Kawhi guarding him for the series over Vuc at 38% with Gasol guarding him. Really don't care if the stats came in big losses - what's he supposed to do, not try to score because they're losing? It's the playoffs. Vuc couldn't even muster average stats in those big losses. So according to you (here's where I am putting words in your mouth), Vuc is either a quitter (doesn't try in big losses), or just can't score even when it's "easier". Whomp whomp.


Kawhi didn't guard Gordon, matter of fact most of the time nobody did. Raptors were double teamming Ross in middle of a floor to stop him from going through screens ,and every time Vuc was near the paint, 3 Raptors players would leave their assignments to rush double ( and triple team).

Gordon took 20 threes in that series, in 17 of them he was open ( closest defender at least 4 feet away from him) and between that 17 , in 10 of them he was wide open ( closest defender at least 6 feet away).
That's how they operated. Focused everything on Ross and Vuc and dared others to beat them. Later they did similar thing to Giannis.

Image

Image

Image

this one is picture perfect example why you can't have too many non shooters, they only pay close attention to Dj here, Green drifts away from Gordon and nobody even cares that Iwundu exists

Image

Just go through all this and tell me they cared about his shooting. I dare you.
"A straight path never leads anywhere except to the objective."
Andre Gide
Nyce_1
RealGM
Posts: 10,636
And1: 4,645
Joined: Jun 29, 2009
Location: Tampa
 

Re: Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (2-0) at Atlanta Hawks (0-1) 

Post#237 » by Nyce_1 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:45 pm

MagicFrenchie wrote:
magicman112 wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:man...i love Markelle. Kid is going to be a beast and we're so lucky to have him.

it's been just 3 games but you see him getting more comfortable. 33 games in 2 years...of course there will be rust. He's working himself back to regaining his feel for the game and I see the progression over 3 games. I'm not worried about layups or makes/misses. His shots will fall. However, MAN.....his defensive potential, IQ, passing and athleticism....I'm beyond excited about his potential and fit on our team.

What makes me more excited is I'll be moving back to Orlando and can catch these games live.


Yeah he brings things to the table that this team has been missing for awhile. Like the exchange where he got the steal and then got it up the court to Frazier.


What I also love is that on the youtube highlights of our preseason games I see a lot of Fultz pictures on the preload, I think he's gonna bring a lot of curious viewers.

most of them are my burner accounts. Think i'm turning into a stan, lol.
orlando_joe
Rookie
Posts: 1,241
And1: 479
Joined: Dec 27, 2015
     

Re: Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (2-0) at Atlanta Hawks (0-1) 

Post#238 » by orlando_joe » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:30 pm

[quote="ChosenSavior"]Isaac pretty much owns John Collins's soul. He must've took the comments on here that Collins was a better player than he was personal.[/quote

sure the rookie gm snub has something to do with it also
User avatar
swarlesbarkley
Starter
Posts: 2,004
And1: 1,061
Joined: Jun 18, 2014
   

Re: Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (2-0) at Atlanta Hawks (0-1) 

Post#239 » by swarlesbarkley » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:46 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Just go through all this and tell me they cared about his shooting. I dare you.


I think it's funny that you had to pull screenshots from highlight clips to make your point here. If it were obvious, just a simple highlight video would've worked.

I watched the video you grabbed the first two screenshots from. The first image was great ball movement that got Gordon free as the last person in a chain of 2-3 passes. The second image was Kawhi (who was guarding Gordon) getting caught on a Vuc screen and Gordon taking advantage. Maybe lazy defense here but basically the same play as the DJ game winner.

Also in the video - Gordon making a tough shots near the rim with Kawhi guarding, Kawhi running Gordon off the 3 and Gordon driving and finding Iwundu, Gordon making a stepback 2 with Danny Green closely guarding him two times, in fact, the only play where they weren't "guarding" Gordon was in the first image, which, again, was more a result of great ball movement - not their philosophy to leave him wide open.
pepe1991
General Manager
Posts: 9,899
And1: 7,939
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Preseason Game 3: Orlando Magic (2-0) at Atlanta Hawks (0-1) 

Post#240 » by pepe1991 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:10 pm

swarlesbarkley wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Just go through all this and tell me they cared about his shooting. I dare you.


I think it's funny that you had to pull screenshots from highlight clips to make your point here. If it were obvious, just a simple highlight video would've worked.

I watched the video you grabbed the first two screenshots from. The first image was great ball movement that got Gordon free as the last person in a chain of 2-3 passes. The second image was Kawhi (who was guarding Gordon) getting caught on a Vuc screen and Gordon taking advantage. Maybe lazy defense here but basically the same play as the DJ game winner.

Also in the video - Gordon making a tough shots near the rim with Kawhi guarding, Kawhi running Gordon off the 3 and Gordon driving and finding Iwundu, Gordon making a stepback 2 with Danny Green closely guarding him two times, in fact, the only play where they weren't "guarding" Gordon was in the first image, which, again, was more a result of great ball movement - not their philosophy to leave him wide open.


you can watch any highlight video from youtube from that games to figure it on your own .
Out of 20 threes he took, 17 were not contested.
So, yea, ... they simply didn't guard him that much.
"A straight path never leads anywhere except to the objective."
Andre Gide

Return to Orlando Magic