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Regular Season Game 7: Sacramento Kings (4-3) at Orlando Magic (2-4)

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Re: Regular Season Game 7: Sacramento Kings (4-3) at Orlando Magic (2-4) 

Post#481 » by OrlandO » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:12 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
MagicMadness wrote:Just keep losing.

Six years after the Dwight trade, and I feel like I'm watching re-runs - again - of a show I already hated. This is soooo boring. :sleep:

Philly had the right idea.


Philly just lucked out on getting Embiid. If they took Exum or Bucks taken Embiid, Philly would be just as bad as we are. They just got lucky.

No, they didn't. They tanked and put themselves in position to draft a generational talent, in fact, two of them with Simmons. Thats what smart organizations that don't want to be mediocre for 15 years do.

No team does what Philly did.
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Re: Regular Season Game 7: Sacramento Kings (4-3) at Orlando Magic (2-4) 

Post#482 » by PrimeThyme » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:15 pm

They don't have to pull a Philly, but they certainly have the ability to put themselves in better positions to draft higher in the lottery then they have the last 3 years. Its been very half-assed tanking.
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Re: Regular Season Game 7: Sacramento Kings (4-3) at Orlando Magic (2-4) 

Post#483 » by magicman112 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:42 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
Philly just lucked out on getting Embiid. If they took Exum or Bucks taken Embiid, Philly would be just as bad as we are. They just got lucky.

No, they didn't. They tanked and put themselves in position to draft a generational talent, in fact, two of them with Simmons. Thats what smart organizations that don't want to be mediocre for 15 years do.


They still would be as bad as the Magic if they didn't get lucky that Bucks didn't take Embiid or they drafted Exum instead and all that tanking would have made them mediocre. They got extremely lucky Embiid fell to them and he played healthy then became a monster. Otherwise, if they had Exum instead, they would suck as as bad as Magic right now. Just the LUCK of the draw with no master plan except they prayed hard to get lucky in the lottery and we didn't. That is why it is a lottery.


They were SUPREMELY lucky Embiid recovered like he did. Some big men don't like Greg Oden. And remember Simmons was out his entire rookie year they were lucky he recovered and was as advertised.
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Re: Regular Season Game 7: Sacramento Kings (4-3) at Orlando Magic (2-4) 

Post#484 » by OrlandO » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:43 pm

Post Hennigan Stress Disorder running rampant around here 7 games into the season. This is a new rebuild... how about we let Weltman rebuild without holding him accountable for Hennigan's failures?
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Re: Regular Season Game 7: Sacramento Kings (4-3) at Orlando Magic (2-4) 

Post#485 » by Optimus_Steel » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:53 pm

OrlandO wrote:Post Hennigan Stress Disorder running rampant around here 7 games into the season. This is a new rebuild... how about we let Weltman rebuild without holding him accountable for Hennigan's failures?
Because it's year 7 and we are fed up with losing with no end in sight.
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Re: Regular Season Game 7: Sacramento Kings (4-3) at Orlando Magic (2-4) 

Post#486 » by fklt » Thu Nov 1, 2018 12:22 am

OrlandO wrote:Post Hennigan Stress Disorder running rampant around here 7 games into the season. This is a new rebuild... how about we let Weltman rebuild without holding him accountable for Hennigan's failures?


was the genius behind being the only team that plays their starters against everybody's 3rd stringers caused by hennigan as well? they've made lots of decisions, enough times to have an impression on them already.

I've never seen a draft pick, a relatively high one at that, being traded for a worse, future pick. you know sooner the pick the more value it has right? might have been the dumbest move ever made and these guys did it.

we had amazing luck; there were no 15-win, impossible to catch teams in the draft race, we had an unbelievable streak of injuries where not even one person would blame us for throwing the towel for the season, and we were in a draft with seemingly generational talent. they wasted this very rare combination of opportunities. do you have the confidence that they wouldn't waste future opportunities?

coming into last trade deadline vuc's value was at his highest its ever been. even though it was apparent that we had no ambition of winning, we let that slip and we're probably gonna let our best player of the last 2 years expire at the end of this season. does this sound much better than trading oladipo for ibaka?

they've basically displayed zero nuance in their draft strategy. using all of their draft picks that they've not traded away (hah, flattening drafts), on players with long arms and long arms only. they've created a team with all 3 of its young stars are a carbon copy of each other. then they complemented them with a team with no shooting and playmaking, that would amplify their weaknesses and stunt their growth.

they hired a coach that they knew would compete for playoffs but gave him a team with no point guard or capability to compete.

hennigan managed to play an almost perfect game for 3 years. almost every decision of his had resulted in positive outcomes. many of which you approved, even though you're retconning that past excitement now. hennigan displayed much more consistency in his actions until the vogel era, which by then he effectively had been sidelined (per robbins), then this management ever did in their short tenure.
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Re: Regular Season Game 7: Sacramento Kings (4-3) at Orlando Magic (2-4) 

Post#487 » by OrlandO » Thu Nov 1, 2018 12:27 am

Optimus_Steel wrote:
OrlandO wrote:Post Hennigan Stress Disorder running rampant around here 7 games into the season. This is a new rebuild... how about we let Weltman rebuild without holding him accountable for Hennigan's failures?
Because it's year 7 and we are fed up with losing with no end in sight.

It's not year 7 for Weltman. It's year 2... and it's 2 years of having no money and very little assets to upgrade thanks to the previous GM. You think he's rolling out this team because he likes it? He isn't retooling, he's rebuilding. It's going to take time. EP and Mario are gone. Vuc and Ross are on deck. DJ is also on borrowed time, especially as a starter. Anyone confident Fournier or even AG will be here in two years? This team will look very different soon... and we don't know what it will be capable of 2-3 years from now. If people don't have the patience for this transition they should probably take a break from following the team for the sake of their sanity.
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Re: Regular Season Game 7: Sacramento Kings (4-3) at Orlando Magic (2-4) 

Post#488 » by MagicStarwipe » Thu Nov 1, 2018 12:35 am

I see nothing wrong with people voicing their displeasure here. What else is this place for if not to voice your feelings on the team?
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Re: Regular Season Game 7: Sacramento Kings (4-3) at Orlando Magic (2-4) 

Post#489 » by Knightro » Thu Nov 1, 2018 2:27 am

MagicMadness wrote:Philly had the right idea.


Let's talk about Philadelphia...

Sam Hinkie got hired in July of 2013. Here's the major moves from the process.

1. Traded Jrue Holiday to New Orleans for 2016 1st round pick (Nerlens Noel) and 2017 1st round pick (Elfrid Payton)
-So right off the bat, Hinkie started out in a better place than Weltman/Hammond did. He had a player on the roster he inherited that he was able to flip for TWO lottery picks. Magic had no such player. Outside of Gordon, they didn’t inherit anyone that would be worth one 1st rounder, much less two lotto picks.

2. Sixers finish 19-63 in Hinkie Year 1. Draft Joel Embiid 3rd overall in 2014
-Hinkie actually benefitted from Embid breaking his foot just days before the draft because Embiid was a lock to go No. 1 overall to Cleveland before that news broke. Remember this was before LeBron decided to come back and before the Cavs knew they were trading for Kevin Love. Philadelphia would have been left with the vastly inferior Andrew Wiggins as the Bucks were locked into Parker at 2 regardless. Hinkie also benefitted again from Embiid missing TWO full seasons with injuries, thus ensuring the Sixers would stay horrible those seasons he missed.

3. Traded the 10th overall pick in 2014 (Elfrid Payton) to Orlando for the 12th overall pick (Dario Saric) and a 2018 1st round pick (Landry Shamet)
-One of Hinkie’s better moves. Found out Rob Hennigan was hot for Payton and swindled him into giving Philadelphia their own 1st round pick back that the Magic had from the Dwight trade to move up two spots. Turns out Saric was the better player too!

4. Signed Robert Covington in November 2014
-One of the keys to effectively tanking is putting a massive premium on player development. Full credit goes to Brett Brown and his staff for uncovering a diamond in the rough.

5. Traded Michael Carter-Williams to Milwaukee as part of 3-team trade for the Lakers 2018 1st (Mikal Bridges who eventually became Zhaire Smith and a 2021 1st round pick from Miami)
-Another quality Hinkie trade. MCW won Rookie of the Year, but wasn't actually a good player. Hinkie traded him away shortly there after for what ended up being a higher lotto pick than they used on MCW in the first place.

6. Sixers finish 18-64 in Hinkie Year 2. Draft Jahlil Okafor 3rd overall in 2015.
-Okafor was a bust

7. Acquired Carl Landry, Nik Stauskas and Jason Thompson from Sacramento for the rights to swap 1st round picks in 2016 (didn’t swap) and 2017 (Sixers used the pick swap to jump from 5 to 3) and a 2019 first round pick (traded to Boston to move up from 3 to 1 to draft Fultz)
-Hinkie’s masterpiece. Swindled an inexperienced and unaware Vlade Divac by absorbing a lot of bad salary for what amounted to two years of the Kings’ ping pong balls and a lotto pick. But… the only reason this trade was able to happen in the first place is because the Sixers had the financial flexibility to absorb the money, something the Magic do not currently have.

Hinkie leaves the team in April of 2016, two months before the 2016 draft.

8. Sixers finish 10-72 in Hinkie Year 3. Draft Ben Simmons 1st overall in 2016.
Star player. But again, the only reason they won 10 games in the third year of their rebuild is because Embiid was injured and Okafor was a bust. Simmons breaks his foot and misses the entire year.

It's easy to say "just tank like the Sixers did!" but that overlooks the fact that Embiid missed his entire first two seasons which DIRECTLY led to them being bad enough to even be in a position to draft Simmons and Fultz in the first place.

People like to say the Sixers got unlucky with their injuries, but realistically it was actually a benefit for them in the long-run. Embiid's injuries put them in a position to get Simmons. Simmons' injuries put them in a position to get Fultz. Not to mention that Embiid's pre-draft injury was the only reason why they were able to land him in the first place!
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Re: Regular Season Game 7: Sacramento Kings (4-3) at Orlando Magic (2-4) 

Post#490 » by MagicMadness » Thu Nov 1, 2018 3:31 am

Fine, we don't have to be exactly like Philly.

But I still want a high lottery pick.
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Re: Regular Season Game 7: Sacramento Kings (4-3) at Orlando Magic (2-4) 

Post#491 » by Knightro » Thu Nov 1, 2018 11:26 am

MagicMadness wrote:Fine, we don't have to be exactly like Philly.

But I still want a high lottery pick.


Touché.

I don't think many folks, including myself, will disagree with you on that.
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Re: Regular Season Game 7: Sacramento Kings (4-3) at Orlando Magic (2-4) 

Post#492 » by basketballRob » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:11 pm

BAMBAEXPRESS wrote:
thelead wrote:How does Isaac play 14 minutes and only rack up 2 points and 1 rebound?


I am starting to think he just doesn’t have that motor to take his game to the next level.

OR

he is referring to Fournier and Vuc our of respect.

I am not sure.
Last year several people made comments about Isaac's motor. This year it's about Bamba. After this year we'll be praising Bamba and trashing another rookie.

Sorry about quoting an old thread but I remember hearing about Isaac's motor quite a bit last year and how he didn't have the stamina or physical stature to play an entire season.

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Re: Regular Season Game 7: Sacramento Kings (4-3) at Orlando Magic (2-4) 

Post#493 » by MagicFan4Lyfe » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:42 pm

basketballRob wrote:
BAMBAEXPRESS wrote:
thelead wrote:How does Isaac play 14 minutes and only rack up 2 points and 1 rebound?


I am starting to think he just doesn’t have that motor to take his game to the next level.

OR

he is referring to Fournier and Vuc our of respect.

I am not sure.
Last year several people made comments about Isaac's motor. This year it's about Bamba. After this year we'll be praising Bamba and trashing another rookie.

Sorry about quoting an old thread but I remember hearing about Isaac's motor quite a bit last year and how he didn't have the stamina or physical stature to play an entire season.

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I have never said anything about Isaac's motor.

But Bamba's motor is something that has been questioned pre-draft:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/1/22/16917558/texas-mohamed-bamba-2018-nba-draft

"Bamba also lacks the intensity and toughness you’d prefer in a defensive anchor. He rarely boxes out and relies primarily on his length to grab rebounds that come near him—which is fine, but the point is there’s room for improvement in rebounding out of his area, boxing out, and playing with more effort. When other players are sprinting, you might find Bamba in cruise control."

"But Longhorns fans get frustrated by his tendency to float on the perimeter, and for good reason: He’s not very good at shooting from there. Bamba wasn’t a good 3-point shooter in high school. His free throw percentage has always hovered in the mid-60s. He has only average touch on his hook shots. And he’s no better shooting from midrange, hitting just 22.2 percent of his attempts. Bamba can shoot, but there’s not a lot of evidence he can shoot well."


"-Motor really runs hot and cold. Looks disinterested at times. Walks around, doesn't jog off the court when subbed out. -Needs to play with more toughness to maximize his defensive potential. Gets posted up without much resistance. Defensive fundamentals have room to improve. Bites on fakes. Doesn't take great angles on the perimeter. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Mohamed-Bamba-91224/ ©DraftExpress"

"Proved to be a game changing shot blocker, a productive lob target, and an imposing offensive rebounder when his motor ran hot."
Others view him as the type of prospect who gets a general manager in trouble -- oozing with talent and smarts yet ridden with the casual demeanor and inconsistent motor that is too often stuck in neutral.

ESPN +https://www.nba.com/draft/2018/prospects/mohamed_bamba#/



The lack of motor and looking disinterested and floating around the 3 point line has been something that has been commented by several others prior to the draft and the same issues still persist with Bamba.
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Re: Regular Season Game 7: Sacramento Kings (4-3) at Orlando Magic (2-4) 

Post#494 » by basketballRob » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:08 pm

BAMBAEXPRESS wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
BAMBAEXPRESS wrote:
I am starting to think he just doesn’t have that motor to take his game to the next level.

OR

he is referring to Fournier and Vuc our of respect.

I am not sure.
Last year several people made comments about Isaac's motor. This year it's about Bamba. After this year we'll be praising Bamba and trashing another rookie.

Sorry about quoting an old thread but I remember hearing about Isaac's motor quite a bit last year and how he didn't have the stamina or physical stature to play an entire season.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app


I have never said anything about Isaac's motor.

But Bamba's motor is something that has been questioned pre-draft:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/1/22/16917558/texas-mohamed-bamba-2018-nba-draft

"Bamba also lacks the intensity and toughness you’d prefer in a defensive anchor. He rarely boxes out and relies primarily on his length to grab rebounds that come near him—which is fine, but the point is there’s room for improvement in rebounding out of his area, boxing out, and playing with more effort. When other players are sprinting, you might find Bamba in cruise control."

"But Longhorns fans get frustrated by his tendency to float on the perimeter, and for good reason: He’s not very good at shooting from there. Bamba wasn’t a good 3-point shooter in high school. His free throw percentage has always hovered in the mid-60s. He has only average touch on his hook shots. And he’s no better shooting from midrange, hitting just 22.2 percent of his attempts. Bamba can shoot, but there’s not a lot of evidence he can shoot well."


"-Motor really runs hot and cold. Looks disinterested at times. Walks around, doesn't jog off the court when subbed out. -Needs to play with more toughness to maximize his defensive potential. Gets posted up without much resistance. Defensive fundamentals have room to improve. Bites on fakes. Doesn't take great angles on the perimeter. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Mohamed-Bamba-91224/ DraftExpress"

"Proved to be a game changing shot blocker, a productive lob target, and an imposing offensive rebounder when his motor ran hot."
Others view him as the type of prospect who gets a general manager in trouble -- oozing with talent and smarts yet ridden with the casual demeanor and inconsistent motor that is too often stuck in neutral.

ESPN +https://www.nba.com/draft/2018/prospects/mohamed_bamba#/



The lack of motor and looking disinterested and floating around the 3 point line has been something that has been commented by several others prior to the draft and the same issues still persist with Bamba.
Well hopefully next year at this time the narrative will be about how good he is. I know you have mostly praised him but the 40 minutes he's played this year has turned almost the whole board against him.

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Re: Regular Season Game 7: Sacramento Kings (4-3) at Orlando Magic (2-4) 

Post#495 » by Blue_and_Whte » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:45 am

basketballRob wrote:
BAMBAEXPRESS wrote:
thelead wrote:How does Isaac play 14 minutes and only rack up 2 points and 1 rebound?


I am starting to think he just doesn’t have that motor to take his game to the next level.

OR

he is referring to Fournier and Vuc our of respect.

I am not sure.
Last year several people made comments about Isaac's motor. This year it's about Bamba. After this year we'll be praising Bamba and trashing another rookie.

Sorry about quoting an old thread but I remember hearing about Isaac's motor quite a bit last year and how he didn't have the stamina or physical stature to play an entire season.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

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