Game 21: Phoenix Suns (9-10) @ Orlando Magic (9-11)

[Blue_and_Whte]

Classy guy. I hope people smile and find joy in your pain so you can see that it's not cool to be happy for someone else's pain. Trash post.

they're children, perpetual losers in arguing against Vooch. Being consistently wrong for 7 years now takes a toll on the mind, especially those who are mental midgets as evident above.

I don't consider myself a Vuc hater, just want to see us contenders again, but if anything the haters have been right 6 out of the 7 years. Not really fair to count the first couple years, but you did.

The fact that you think his haters have been right at all, least of all 6 of 7 years means your're a hater. I don't have time to go back but we've consistently been worse without him on the floor. Ridiculous statement. Noticed you didn't say anything about the guy who's happy a human got injured, wonder how you actual feel about it.

[Blue_and_Whte]

can 407 trash get banned for crap like that?

Just put it on your foe list.

[PrimeThyme]

lets see what it looks like against the Bucks, Lakers, Rockets, Pelicans, Jazz, Nuggets.

How would we look against those teams with Vuc? We have shown zero ability to beat good teams this season with or without Vuc. That’s my entire point. I would never make the argument that we are better without him becuase I don’t believe we are, but I’m also not going to write off everything we’ve seen so far. I do believe there is benefit in other players taking on bigger scoring roles for this team even if it hurts us in the short term.

I would like to see us not rely on Vuc as such a crutch scoring wise when he gets back. That doesn’t take away all the other good things he does for this team though.

[pepe1991]

can 407 trash get banned for crap like that?

Just put it on your foe list.

Celebrating anybody got hurt is ban-worthy imo.
You just have to be human garbage to think that way.

I was on verge of crying when George broke a leg. You can't be sports fan and think that way.

[pepe1991]

lets see what it looks like against the Bucks, Lakers, Rockets, Pelicans, Jazz, Nuggets.

How would we look against those teams with Vuc? We have shown zero ability to beat good teams this season with or without Vuc. That’s my entire point. I would never make the argument that we are better without him becuase I don’t believe we are, but I’m also not going to write off everything we’ve seen so far. I do believe there is benefit in other players taking on bigger scoring roles for this team even if it hurts us in the short term.

I would like to see us not rely on Vuc as such a crutch scoring wise when he gets back. That doesn’t take away all the other good things he does for this team though.

Last year we:
beat Houston once
beat Lakers both times
beat Jazz once
lost to Nuggets both times
beat Pelicans twice

In all Ws Vučević played just saying

[Blue_and_Whte]

lets see what it looks like against the Bucks, Lakers, Rockets, Pelicans, Jazz, Nuggets.

How would we look against those teams with Vuc? We have shown zero ability to beat good teams this season with or without Vuc. That’s my entire point. I would never make the argument that we are better without him becuase I don’t believe we are, but I’m also not going to write off everything we’ve seen so far. I do believe there is benefit in other players taking on bigger scoring roles for this team even if it hurts us in the short term.

I would like to see us not rely on Vuc as such a crutch scoring wise when he gets back. That doesn’t take away all the other good things he does for this team though.

I don't know. But I'm anticipating looking better based on the last two years of data and the fact that we're not in a monumental and uncharacteristic shooting slump. Not to mention we beat good teams last year with Vuc pretty routinely, with largely the same group. As ezzzp pointed out, the bench has been the problem, not the starters so offensively we need the bench to play well particularly Ross and DJ's scoring.

[Blue_and_Whte]

can 407 trash get banned for crap like that?

Just put it on your foe list.

Celebrating anybody got hurt is ban-worthy imo.
You just have to be human garbage to think that way.

I was on verge of crying when George broke a leg. You can't be sports fan and think that way.

Well he isn't the only that said he was happy Vuc got hurt.

[Bensational]

lets see what it looks like against the Bucks, Lakers, Rockets, Pelicans, Jazz, Nuggets.

How would we look against those teams with Vuc? We have shown zero ability to beat good teams this season with or without Vuc. That’s my entire point. I would never make the argument that we are better without him becuase I don’t believe we are, but I’m also not going to write off everything we’ve seen so far. I do believe there is benefit in other players taking on bigger scoring roles for this team even if it hurts us in the short term.

I would like to see us not rely on Vuc as such a crutch scoring wise when he gets back. That doesn’t take away all the other good things he does for this team though.

Well we know how we looked with Vuc against the Bucks and Nuggets because we played them with him already this season and lost both times. People have stuck their heads in the sand for years when it comes to comparing the team's win-loss record with and without Vuc. His presence marks a marginal improvement at best. The fact is the team finds ways to play without him. It's like Boston without Kyrie (but Kyrie is a headcase and a douchebag, whereas Vuc is just a bloke that coaches rely on too much).

Without Vuc, Fultz has stepped up to replace his impact in scoring and passing. I'd like to see what the offense would look like if Vuc basically played like Birch as more of a role player. He'd surely finish more of those rolls and paint hand offs that Birch isn't able to, or he'd be open for 3's at the top of the perimeter. But then he has to be more consistent hitting those shots to make them worthwhile - which he hasn't been this season. He would give a better passing edge to hit AG and Isaac if they cut.

But then we're paying Vuc $28M to be a role player, and that's a massive overpay.

Really, it's time to move on from him and replace him with a standard workhorse C who can hold the fort for Bamba, and hopefully get back another impact player to help with scoring when this hot shooting surely dips back down.

[Catledge]

I am extremely unhappy that Vooch got hurt and wish it had not happened, but I can see the silver lining that some see with Isaac and Fultz having been forced to be more aggressive.

Having said that, I think it's crazy to argue that we are better without Vooch for all of the reasons that others have mentioned.

One further thing to note has been the steady growth in minutes for Fultz. He went from never playing more than 25 minutes to playing 30+ in 4 of our last 6 games. When Vooch returns, I expect that he and the team will benefit enormously from a more aggressive Fultz playing full starter's minutes. It's going to mean more good looks in close for Vooch.

[KillMonger]

lets see what it looks like against the Bucks, Lakers, Rockets, Pelicans, Jazz, Nuggets.

How would we look against those teams with Vuc? We have shown zero ability to beat good teams this season with or without Vuc. That’s my entire point. I would never make the argument that we are better without him becuase I don’t believe we are, but I’m also not going to write off everything we’ve seen so far. I do believe there is benefit in other players taking on bigger scoring roles for this team even if it hurts us in the short term.

I would like to see us not rely on Vuc as such a crutch scoring wise when he gets back. That doesn’t take away all the other good things he does for this team though.

Well we know how we looked with Vuc against the Bucks and Nuggets because we played them with him already this season and lost both times. People have stuck their heads in the sand for years when it comes to comparing the team's win-loss record with and without Vuc. His presence marks a marginal improvement at best. The fact is the team finds ways to play without him. It's like Boston without Kyrie (but Kyrie is a headcase and a douchebag, whereas Vuc is just a bloke that coaches rely on too much).

Without Vuc, Fultz has stepped up to replace his impact in scoring and passing. I'd like to see what the offense would look like if Vuc basically played like Birch as more of a role player. He'd surely finish more of those rolls and paint hand offs that Birch isn't able to, or he'd be open for 3's at the top of the perimeter. But then he has to be more consistent hitting those shots to make them worthwhile - which he hasn't been this season. He would give a better passing edge to hit AG and Isaac if they cut.

But then we're paying Vuc $28M to be a role player, and that's a massive overpay.

Really, it's time to move on from him and replace him with a standard workhorse C who can hold the fort for Bamba, and hopefully get back another impact player to help with scoring when this hot shooting surely dips back down.

You really think we're moving on from vuc when we had the chance to already do that this past summer. If we going to get an impact player the guy that's going to get us that is AG. If we had better players vuc wouldn't be such a focal point, but on this roster if you keep it real with yourself he's the best player. Focusing the offense around your best player who so happens to be a good offensive player? The logic is sound. That being said if we got better players in here vuc would be one of the best complimentary players in the game.....but as it stands now, on this roster there isn't really anybody to be complimentary to. Either way vuc is unselfish he'll pass it around if the offense dictates it and the play is there. Honestly I trust him more as a passer than I do DJ.

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[zaymon]

I am extremely unhappy that Vooch got hurt and wish it had not happened, but I can see the silver lining that some see with Isaac and Fultz having been forced to be more aggressive.

Having said that, I think it's crazy to argue that we are better without Vooch for all of the reasons that others have mentioned.

One further thing to note has been the steady growth in minutes for Fultz. He went from never playing more than 25 minutes to playing 30+ in 4 of our last 6 games. When Vooch returns, I expect that he and the team will benefit enormously from a more aggressive Fultz playing full starter's minutes. It's going to mean more good looks in close for Vooch.

People here like to discover wheel one more time when Clifford explained many things during his daily interviews. Coach said that we will be playing through Vucevic less as our offense is changing (fultz). Its such a simple concept. Vucevic doesnt wants or needs to be number one option we just didnt have much choice.

[JF5]

Yeah, this team is not better without Vuc. Beating a few bad teams doesn't change much. What I like about this are guys like Fultz and Fournier taking the lead out there. Issac is the only disappointment but hes so good defensively he gets a pass.

[Blue_and_Whte]

lets see what it looks like against the Bucks, Lakers, Rockets, Pelicans, Jazz, Nuggets.

How would we look against those teams with Vuc? We have shown zero ability to beat good teams this season with or without Vuc. That’s my entire point. I would never make the argument that we are better without him becuase I don’t believe we are, but I’m also not going to write off everything we’ve seen so far. I do believe there is benefit in other players taking on bigger scoring roles for this team even if it hurts us in the short term.

I would like to see us not rely on Vuc as such a crutch scoring wise when he gets back. That doesn’t take away all the other good things he does for this team though.

Well we know how we looked with Vuc against the Bucks and Nuggets because we played them with him already this season and lost both times. People have stuck their heads in the sand for years when it comes to comparing the team's win-loss record with and without Vuc. His presence marks a marginal improvement at best. The fact is the team finds ways to play without him. It's like Boston without Kyrie (but Kyrie is a headcase and a douchebag, whereas Vuc is just a bloke that coaches rely on too much).

Without Vuc, Fultz has stepped up to replace his impact in scoring and passing. I'd like to see what the offense would look like if Vuc basically played like Birch as more of a role player. He'd surely finish more of those rolls and paint hand offs that Birch isn't able to, or he'd be open for 3's at the top of the perimeter. But then he has to be more consistent hitting those shots to make them worthwhile - which he hasn't been this season. He would give a better passing edge to hit AG and Isaac if they cut.

But then we're paying Vuc $28M to be a role player, and that's a massive overpay.

Really, it's time to move on from him and replace him with a standard workhorse C who can hold the fort for Bamba, and hopefully get back another impact player to help with scoring when this hot shooting surely dips back down.

We played them during a team wide shooting slump, and in no capacity is bamba a workhorse. were not turning vooch into birch...thats absurd lastly, he isnt role player on this team. i believe youre overreacting to a small sample size against bad teams.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Yeah, this team is not better without Vuc. Beating a few bad teams doesn't change much. What I like about this are guys like Fultz and Fournier taking the lead out there. Issac is the only disappointment but hes so good defensively he gets a pass.

we absolutely need to keep playing through fultz but we can also play through vooch as a facilitator and scorer.

[PrimeThyme]

Last year we:
beat Houston once
beat Lakers both times
beat Jazz once
lost to Nuggets both times
beat Pelicans twice

In all Ws Vučević played just saying

We've already lost to the Nuggets/Bucks this season with Vuc. Pelicans are beatable with or without Vuc. Lakers are 100% improved from last season and have the best record in the NBA. Vuc could move the needle in the Jazz/Houston game but both teams are still better than us and would be favored with or without Vuc playing.

We are just a mediocre team regardless of if he plays or not. Are we better with him? Yes, but I just don't think that means as much as some people make it seem. Clifford teams we're known for feasting on weaker competition in Charlotte as well.

[KillMonger]

can 407 trash get banned for crap like that?

Just put it on your foe list.

yep, he's a lame for what he said.....welcome to the foe's list clown

[Tarheel]

Just me that thinks it might be nice to have more than one player to run the offense through going forward?