Regular Season Game 25: Houston Rockets (16-8) at Orlando Magic (11-13) - 7pm ET

[MagicStarwipe]

Evan's ballhandling since FIFA has been really good. He had a sick crossover at some point of the game last night that really impressed me. He is having a great year, going to get paid this summer. Coach had a ton of great things to say about his defense last night postgame that I think is true. He's doing a lot of heavy lifting on that end and this year, and unlike years past, it's not diminishing his effort on the offensive end. His conditioning is excellent. I really enjoy watching him play basketball.

Assuming Evan keeps up his good play and get's paid for it, do you want to be locked into Vuc/Evan tandem for the next 3 to 4 years as our highest paid players?

I want to see the rest of the season with Fultz playing with them to see how that works. I really like 4 of our starters, Fultz, Fournier, Isaac, Vuc. In my realgm hat, I'd say yes, I'll go find a star SF that fits better on the market and everything's fixed! In reality, I don't know if that's possible. My general NBA theory is that the center position is the least valuable in the NBA and the most easily replaceable, so despite Vuc being my 2nd favorite on the team, I'd default to moving him if necessary.

I have to be honest, I'd have to consider not following the team for a while if that happens, because to me it would be committing to mediocrity. That's as much to do with being unsure of how much Fultz and Isaac will develop as it is to do with the Fournier/Vuc combo.

[j-ragg]

we really are gonna have Vuc and Fournier for 3 different contracts aren't we

[zaymon]

we really are gonna have Vuc and Fournier for 3 different contracts aren't we

I dont think having 2 all star level players on our roster is a bad thing. We just need to find a number one option and cut bad players from rotation. If we had another wing on Fournier level we would be super dangerous but Ross is just not good enough overall player. He is great as a shooter but he just cant handle like Evan can. If we had more players on Vucevic and Fournier level we would be in playoffs every year, but we have reserve level players like Dj, AG, Ross, MCW and bunch of young players who dont know how to win. Isaac is great but you cant carry a team with that level of offense and Fultz is not exactly a great starter without his 3 point shot. People act like Vucevic and Fournier played with Curry, Kawhi and Beal their whole carrier.

[VFX]

we really are gonna have Vuc and Fournier for 3 different contracts aren't we

I dont think having 2 all star level players on our roster is a bad thing. We just need to find a number one option and cut bad players from rotation.

Are they they though? One of the two has been an all star once. Also, you keep saying this, but it’s easier said than done. How does this team simply find a “number one option” being a 7/8 seed and nearly capped. Its funny how resistant people are to moving in a different direction despite many seasons of data suggesting inefficiency.

[basketballRob]

MCW- 8 shot attempts
Jonathan Issac (6th overall pick)- 7 shot attempts -plays 27 minutes

i'm trying to wrap my head around this

Isaac picking up that 3rd foul in the second quarter limited his minutes tonight. Had to come out with 7 minutes left. But the lack of shots is a head scratcher. Wish we would go down into the post more often so he could hit that little turnaround 10 footer or make a move to the basket.

MCW has just been chucking the last two games. When he plays his limited role he is fine but anything else and he is unplayable.

I'm generally unconcerned with shot distributions. What annoys me greatly is when a lack of ball movement effectively neutralizes your own players' ability to contribute at the offensive end. We've had this problem for years.

I get that MCW is just trying to make plays, but he is just miserable at the offensive end. In theory, I can see how he would be a useful piece on a certain type of roster, but I don't think we have that roster. I don't see why he gets regular rotation minutes and I don't believe our roster is good enough that he should be taking a spot that could go to a developmental guard. If you need MCW to give you a shot at getting into the playoffs, then where the hell is your roster actually going?

I've noticed that no one gets open when MCW had the ball. You can't pass the ball if no one's open.

The young players Isaac, Fultz, and Bamba all run from the ball if they missed a shot earlier. I don't see a reason why Bamba shouldn't shoot at least 5 3 pt shots a game.

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[Xatticus]

we really are gonna have Vuc and Fournier for 3 different contracts aren't we

I dont think having 2 all star level players on our roster is a bad thing. We just need to find a number one option and cut bad players from rotation.

Are they they though? One of the two has been an all star once. Also, you keep saying this, but it’s easier said than done. How does this team simply find a “number one option” being a 7/8 seed and nearly capped. Its funny how resistant people are to moving in a different direction despite many seasons of data suggesting inefficiency.

Yeah. I'm not sure what All-Star level really means. It's not like the best players in the league make the All-Star team in any given year. The composition of rosters has a significant impact on who makes the teams. If we had more offensive talent last year (e.g. Durant), it's very unlikely that Vucevic is an All-Star. That doesn't mean he is any less of a player. For example, one could argue that Indiana has three players (Sabonis, Brogdon, and Oladipo) that are better than anyone on our roster, but which of them is a lock to make an All-Star team if they are all healthy? There are only so many field goal attempts to go around and Warren and Lamb are going to get their share as well.

I want to win games and you have to get value for your money if you are going to accomplish that. Labeling someone an All-Star isn't particularly meaningful to that end. Rashard Lewis and Ray Allen spent five years together in Seattle. They scored a lot of points and had one winning season. You can go ahead and call Vucevic and Fournier All-Star level players if you want to, but what does that really mean? How far is that going to get us?

[Blue_and_Whte]

I am really curious to see with Vucevic's return appearing imminent if everyone who has shot the ball better since he got hurt can maintain their levels of play once the big man is back.

Fournier and Ross in particular, but also Gordon, Bamba and others.

Niks presence has nothing to do with their ability to make shots. I believe that's just everyone coming out of their slump.

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[VFX]

I dont think having 2 all star level players on our roster is a bad thing. We just need to find a number one option and cut bad players from rotation.

Are they they though? One of the two has been an all star once. Also, you keep saying this, but it’s easier said than done. How does this team simply find a “number one option” being a 7/8 seed and nearly capped. Its funny how resistant people are to moving in a different direction despite many seasons of data suggesting inefficiency.

Yeah. I'm not sure what All-Star level really means. It's not like the best players in the league make the All-Star team in any given year. The composition of rosters has a significant impact on who makes the teams. If we had more offensive talent last year (e.g. Durant), it's very unlikely that Vucevic is an All-Star. That doesn't mean he is any less of a player. For example, one could argue that Indiana has three players (Sabonis, Brogdon, and Oladipo) that are better than anyone on our roster, but which of them is a lock to make an All-Star team if they are all healthy? There are only so many field goal attempts to go around and Warren and Lamb are going to get their share as well.

I want to win games and you have to get value for your money if you are going to accomplish that. Labeling someone an All-Star isn't particularly meaningful to that end. Rashard Lewis and Ray Allen spent five years together in Seattle. They scored a lot of points and had one winning season. You can go ahead and call Vucevic and Fournier All-Star level players if you want to, but what does that really mean? How far is that going to get us?

Yeah, I agree with the Indiana example. The dynamics of the team have to make sense in the context of the system. There are many teams with “allstar” level players, that are primary options, on teams going nowhere. System is more important and Orlando’s isn’t great offensively.

Fournier on paper hits value and provides a needed skillset. That being said, where does the value reach a crossroads with the results? Committing more money to him as a second/third option on offense would make sense. Doing it without a primary option, similar to the Vuc argument, makes less sense. People argue that we aren’t “building around” these players but then also say we need a primary option to carry the offense while simultaneously handing out large contracts. Sounds like wishful thinking and reverse building.

The talent needs to change, but it has to make sense long term systematically. It’s never as simple as “get good players get rid of bad players”. Then again, I wouldn’t say doubling and tripling down on the same core offensively for years and expecting wildly different results is effective either.

[zaymon]

I dont think having 2 all star level players on our roster is a bad thing. We just need to find a number one option and cut bad players from rotation.

Are they they though? One of the two has been an all star once. Also, you keep saying this, but it’s easier said than done. How does this team simply find a “number one option” being a 7/8 seed and nearly capped. Its funny how resistant people are to moving in a different direction despite many seasons of data suggesting inefficiency.

Yeah. I'm not sure what All-Star level really means. It's not like the best players in the league make the All-Star team in any given year. The composition of rosters has a significant impact on who makes the teams. If we had more offensive talent last year (e.g. Durant), it's very unlikely that Vucevic is an All-Star. That doesn't mean he is any less of a player. For example, one could argue that Indiana has three players (Sabonis, Brogdon, and Oladipo) that are better than anyone on our roster, but which of them is a lock to make an All-Star team if they are all healthy? There are only so many field goal attempts to go around and Warren and Lamb or going to get their share as well.

I want to win games and you have to get value for your money if you are going to accomplish that. Labeling someone an All-Star isn't particularly meaningful to that end. Rashard Lewis and Ray Allen spent five years together in Seattle. They scored a lot of points and had one winning season. You can go ahead and call Vucevic and Fournier All-Star level players if you want to, but what does that really mean? How far is that going to get us?

What i mean by all star level (i agree all star doesnt mean anything thats why i use all star level) is contender/ ECF level starter. When you look at Bucks for comparison in my opinion Fournier is around Middleton level (personally i think Evan is better), and Vucevic is twice as good as Lopez. When you look at Pacers i think Vucevic is the best overall player. Brogdon is great but he never had to deal with attention Fournier gets every game.
If we had solid veteran starters replacing DJ/Fultz/AG with Vucevic and Fournier being number 1 and 2 option we are fighting for top4 every year imo. If we somehow aquire elite ball handler i think we are contenders with Vuc and Evan being 2 and 3 option. You need real luck to draft a legitimate number one option. Last 8 years had 3-5 such players in top 10 depending how you feel about Zion and Morant. Lets say we round it to 4 players in 8 years so 1 player every two years. If you are lucky to be one of the 3 worst teams you have 14 % to get such a player, divided by 2 its 7%. You need 10 YEARS to have 51% to have a shot at such a player and you still can blow it like Phoenix or Sacramento. We can go the Knicks way, 20 years and we will have whooping 76% chance to have a shot at such a player.
Sorry maybe i am delusional but i will try my chances with Fultz, middle of the draft or disgruntled superstar while having above average starters on the team.

[Knightro]

Niks presence has nothing to do with their ability to make shots. I believe that's just everyone coming out of their slump.

Not really what I meant.

I was coming at it from more of the perspective that we know Vucevic is going likely resume his role as the No. 1 offensive option. So those 16+ shots a night are going to come at the expense of other players.

FGA per game without Vucevic
Fournier: +5.2
Fultz +3.4
Isaac +3.0
Birch: +2.8
Ross +1.9
Bamba +1.4
Gordon +0.9
MCW: +0.3
Augustin -1.3

Obviously Birch will be losing pretty much all of his shots and likely his playing time too.

Efficiency wise, Isaac will probably benefit from fewer shots, but Fournier and Ross both seemed to flourish with the increased usage.

[The Real Dalic]

So glad I missed the past two games. Doesn't seem like I missed much.

[Blue_and_Whte]

So glad I missed the past two games. Doesn't seem like I missed much.

Expected outcome.

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[Optimus_Steel]

Cliff's saving our guys for the 2nd half run!

He will prove y'all wrong!!!

Idk if you are joking or not but this is actually a good point. Managing minutes reduces chances for injuries and players are more rested for later in the season. It's part of the reason we made that 2nd half run, as well with good luck. It's a long season.

[ezzzp]

Niks presence has nothing to do with their ability to make shots. I believe that's just everyone coming out of their slump.

Not really what I meant.

I was coming at it from more of the perspective that we know Vucevic is going likely resume his role as the No. 1 offensive option. So those 16+ shots a night are going to come at the expense of other players.

FGA per game without Vucevic
Fournier: +5.2
Fultz +3.4
Isaac +3.0
Birch: +2.8
Ross +1.9
Bamba +1.4
Gordon +0.9
MCW: +0.3
Augustin -1.3

Obviously Birch will be losing pretty much all of his shots and likely his playing time too.

Efficiency wise, Isaac will probably benefit from fewer shots, but Fournier and Ross both seemed to flourish with the increased usage.

Most of that increase is related to more minutes.