Regular Season Game 36: Utah Jazz (22-12) at Orlando Magic (16-19) - 7pm ET

[p0peye]

I look at rebuilding and tanking as one and the same. At some point every team has to tear it down or suck at some point to win a title.

And a lot of teams who won Championships in the last two decades had their own top draft pick and we're pretty bad to get them. The warriors had Curry, Cavs had Irving, Spurs had Duncan, Miami had Wade, Mavs had Dirk. None of teams would have won with out these guys. When i look at these teams it's a combination of good drafting (including a top draft pick) and getting lucky in F/As.

Rebuilding and tanking do not necessary go hand in hand and rarely do we see tanking culture to produce winning team. Cavs were a bunch of losers before LeBron return despite tanking efforts and three #1 picks. Philly is classic exemplar of supposedly proper rebuild by tanking - currently sitting at 5th place in East.

In sports as much as in life, school or business, culture is foundation for success. We have accrued more than enough of high lottery picks, but most of them - as with Philly or Lakers - didn't become game changers. Time to man up and play to win. If we're no better than 8th seed, than fight for a chance to get to 7th. Or to win 2 games in first round. If star becomes available, maybe a trade will happen. Maybe we sign one in 2021. Maybe Isaac becomes a star too.

I'd just hate it to see Magic get back to miserable team it was until last season.

And, it is always easier to sign free agents or make trades when you have a team that wins games. If the Magic can build upon last years team outside of injuries hurting them, then it will be tremendously easier to make moves for players fans want.

Indeed.

[Rainwater]

What tanking team has won championship? Can't think of one in last two decades.

I look at rebuilding and tanking as one and the same. At some point every team has to tear it down or suck at some point to win a title.

And a lot of teams who won Championships in the last two decades had their own top draft pick and we're pretty bad to get them. The warriors had Curry, Cavs had Irving, Spurs had Duncan, Miami had Wade, Mavs had Dirk. None of teams would have won with out these guys. When i look at these teams it's a combination of good drafting (including a top draft pick) and getting lucky in F/As.

Rebuilding and tanking do not necessary go hand in hand and rarely do we see tanking culture to produce winning team. Cavs were a bunch of losers before LeBron return despite tanking efforts and three #1 picks. Philly is classic exemplar of supposedly proper rebuild by tanking - currently sitting at 5th place in East.

In sports as much as in life, school or business, culture is foundation for success. We have accrued more than enough of high lottery picks, but most of them - as with Philly or Lakers - didn't become game changers. Time to man up and play to win. If we're no better than 8th seed, than fight for a chance to get to 7th. Or to win 2 games in first round. If star becomes available, maybe a trade will happen. Maybe we sign one in 2021. Maybe Isaac becomes a star too.

I'd just hate it to see Magic get back to miserable team it was until last season.

I disagree tanking is rebuilding but just putting a name on it. Philly would have just been considered rebuilding if they just did not own up to it. The problem with tanking/rebuilding, while inevitable, is that the time frame may vary and their is no promise it will work. You may have to rebuild more than once for it to work.

Rebuilding/tanking correctly is matter of things just falling into place in terms of f/a and draft picks. The Cavs in Lebron's second return is a good example this. If the Cavs did not have #1 draft pick to draft Irving and the #1 draft pick to trade for Love, I highly doubt that LeBron would have signed with the Cavs. Therefore, if Cleveland never rebuilt/tanked they would have never gotten the assets to attract LeBron. Same thing with Wade in Miami. Curry with Durant. Spurs would have never gotten Duncan if they did not tank after the Robinson injury.

Rebuilding/tanking is a combination of things, not just a good draft pick. A good draft pick is just part of it.

[OrlandO]

I predict we will trade Gordon in the offseason

Seems very likely his days here are numbered unless he goes on a heck of a hot streak to buy himself more time. He's failed to develop his scoring, shooting, handling and playmaking. You can't play through him, you can't play him full time at SF, and due to his strong desire to be a shot creator he's not really serving as a complimentary teammate to anyone. He could be used better at his natural PF position next to multiple star wings, but what does that matter if he has no future here in that role? Weltman's now got two of his own projects as starters in Fultz and Isaac... he'll likely want to compliment them with a better fitting wing sooner than later. Unfortunately for AG he is looking more and more like the odd man out.

[VFX]

I look at rebuilding and tanking as one and the same. At some point every team has to tear it down or suck at some point to win a title.

And a lot of teams who won Championships in the last two decades had their own top draft pick and we're pretty bad to get them. The warriors had Curry, Cavs had Irving, Spurs had Duncan, Miami had Wade, Mavs had Dirk. None of teams would have won with out these guys. When i look at these teams it's a combination of good drafting (including a top draft pick) and getting lucky in F/As.

Rebuilding and tanking do not necessary go hand in hand and rarely do we see tanking culture to produce winning team. Cavs were a bunch of losers before LeBron return despite tanking efforts and three #1 picks. Philly is classic exemplar of supposedly proper rebuild by tanking - currently sitting at 5th place in East.

In sports as much as in life, school or business, culture is foundation for success. We have accrued more than enough of high lottery picks, but most of them - as with Philly or Lakers - didn't become game changers. Time to man up and play to win. If we're no better than 8th seed, than fight for a chance to get to 7th. Or to win 2 games in first round. If star becomes available, maybe a trade will happen. Maybe we sign one in 2021. Maybe Isaac becomes a star too.

I'd just hate it to see Magic get back to miserable team it was until last season.

And, it is always easier to sign free agents or make trades when you have a team that wins games. If the Magic can build upon last years team outside of injuries hurting them, then it will be tremendously easier to make moves for players fans want.

This is a classic misconception.

Brooklyn acquired Durant and Kyrie Irving last off-season with little post season success. None of which was due to them the year prior.

Kawhi and Paul George team up last season in Los Angeles randomly after they finished 8th in the western conference.

Does KP go to Dallas if they don’t DRAFT Doncic? No.

Stars go to play with stars. They don’t agree to join teams that are overachieving with mediocre talent and an obvious ceiling.

I’ll say it again in case some of you conveniently forgot somehow -

The Orlando Magic have only been successful as a franchise historically because of their DRAFT picks.

Penny, Shaq, Dwight, etc. are players who made this organization watchable and competitive. You need those players first to attract other talent.

As another poster pointed out a few days ago... teams that make the 7th/8th rarely do anything moving forward. They usually end up rebuilding entirely.

[Rainwater]

Rebuilding and tanking do not necessary go hand in hand and rarely do we see tanking culture to produce winning team. Cavs were a bunch of losers before LeBron return despite tanking efforts and three #1 picks. Philly is classic exemplar of supposedly proper rebuild by tanking - currently sitting at 5th place in East.

In sports as much as in life, school or business, culture is foundation for success. We have accrued more than enough of high lottery picks, but most of them - as with Philly or Lakers - didn't become game changers. Time to man up and play to win. If we're no better than 8th seed, than fight for a chance to get to 7th. Or to win 2 games in first round. If star becomes available, maybe a trade will happen. Maybe we sign one in 2021. Maybe Isaac becomes a star too.

I'd just hate it to see Magic get back to miserable team it was until last season.

And, it is always easier to sign free agents or make trades when you have a team that wins games. If the Magic can build upon last years team outside of injuries hurting them, then it will be tremendously easier to make moves for players fans want.

This is a classic misconception.

Brooklyn acquired Durant and Kyrie Irving last off-season with little post season success. None of which was due to them the year prior.

Kawhi and Paul George team up last season in Los Angeles randomly after they finished 8th in the western conference.

Stars go to play with stars. They don’t agree to join teams that are overachieving with mediocre talent and an obvious ceiling.

I’ll say it again in case some of you conveniently forgot somehow -

The Orlando Magic have only been successful as a franchise historically because of their DRAFT picks.

Penny, Shaq, Dwight, etc. are players who made this organization watchable and competitive. You need those players first to attract other talent.

As another poster pointed out a few days ago... teams that make the 7th/8th rarely do anything moving forward. They usually end up rebuilding entirely.

Truth

[p0peye]

Rebuilding and tanking do not necessary go hand in hand and rarely do we see tanking culture to produce winning team. Cavs were a bunch of losers before LeBron return despite tanking efforts and three #1 picks. Philly is classic exemplar of supposedly proper rebuild by tanking - currently sitting at 5th place in East.

In sports as much as in life, school or business, culture is foundation for success. We have accrued more than enough of high lottery picks, but most of them - as with Philly or Lakers - didn't become game changers. Time to man up and play to win. If we're no better than 8th seed, than fight for a chance to get to 7th. Or to win 2 games in first round. If star becomes available, maybe a trade will happen. Maybe we sign one in 2021. Maybe Isaac becomes a star too.

I'd just hate it to see Magic get back to miserable team it was until last season.

And, it is always easier to sign free agents or make trades when you have a team that wins games. If the Magic can build upon last years team outside of injuries hurting them, then it will be tremendously easier to make moves for players fans want.

This is a classic misconception.

Brooklyn acquired Durant and Kyrie Irving last off-season with little post season success. None of which was due to them the year prior.

Kawhi and Paul George team up last season in Los Angeles randomly after they finished 8th in the western conference.

Does KP go to Dallas if they don’t DRAFT Doncic? No.

Stars go to play with stars. They don’t agree to join teams that are overachieving with mediocre talent and an obvious ceiling.

I’ll say it again in case some of you conveniently forgot somehow -

The Orlando Magic have only been successful as a franchise historically because of their DRAFT picks.

Penny, Shaq, Dwight, etc. are players who made this organization watchable and competitive. You need those players first to attract other talent.

As another poster pointed out a few days ago... teams that make the 7th/8th rarely do anything moving forward. They usually end up rebuilding entirely.

Both Nets and Clippers proved to be playoff caliber team without stars, and they had been positioned themselves to have cap space to sign two stars in single offseason. That is what worked for them, not tanking for draft picks - which by the way, Nets had none for several years.

KP was traded to Dallas. That's also a road we should take to get a star, if it is available.

[VFX]

And, it is always easier to sign free agents or make trades when you have a team that wins games. If the Magic can build upon last years team outside of injuries hurting them, then it will be tremendously easier to make moves for players fans want.

This is a classic misconception.

Brooklyn acquired Durant and Kyrie Irving last off-season with little post season success. None of which was due to them the year prior.

Kawhi and Paul George team up last season in Los Angeles randomly after they finished 8th in the western conference.

Does KP go to Dallas if they don’t DRAFT Doncic? No.

Stars go to play with stars. They don’t agree to join teams that are overachieving with mediocre talent and an obvious ceiling.

I’ll say it again in case some of you conveniently forgot somehow -

The Orlando Magic have only been successful as a franchise historically because of their DRAFT picks.

Penny, Shaq, Dwight, etc. are players who made this organization watchable and competitive. You need those players first to attract other talent.

As another poster pointed out a few days ago... teams that make the 7th/8th rarely do anything moving forward. They usually end up rebuilding entirely.

Both Nets and Clippers proved to be playoff caliber team without stars, and they had been positioned themselves to have cap space to sign two stars in single offseason. That is what worked for them, not tanking for draft picks - which by the way, Nets had none for several years.

KP was traded to Dallas. That's also a road we should take to get a star, if it is available.

Except in neither of those situations do those players go to those teams if the other stars don’t go. Kawhi even made it part of the terms and it was a deal breaker. Does having those role players help? Yes. Was that the primary reason for their choice? No.

Dallas wouldn’t agree to trade assets for KP if they didn’t have a framework for him to immediately resign with them. He doesn’t agree to that if Doncic isn’t there.

Also, that doesn’t refute any of what I said about Orlando’s history. People just shouldn’t be surprised when the Magic aren’t players in free agency because they attempted to build backwards. It’s rarer for stars to sign with teams that don’t already have stars. That might happen with Isaac, but we are a long way away from that.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I predict we will trade Gordon in the offseason

Seems very likely his days here are numbered unless he goes on a heck of a hot streak to buy himself more time. He's failed to develop his scoring, shooting, handling and playmaking. You can't play through him, you can't play him full time at SF, and due to his strong desire to be a shot creator he's not really serving as a complimentary teammate to anyone. He could be used better at his natural PF position next to multiple star wings, but what does that matter if he has no future here in that role? Weltman's now got two of his own projects as starters in Fultz and Isaac... he'll likely want to compliment them with a better fitting wing sooner than later. Unfortunately for AG he is looking more and more like the odd man out.

I agree the problem is that we need an elite player and AG doesn't fetch us that. We'd have to gut the whole team essentially starting from scratch which i would be fine with as long as they pick a direction.

[basketballRob]

I'm thinking most of the top 10 players were selected in the teens and later.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[p0peye]

This is a classic misconception.

Brooklyn acquired Durant and Kyrie Irving last off-season with little post season success. None of which was due to them the year prior.

Kawhi and Paul George team up last season in Los Angeles randomly after they finished 8th in the western conference.

Does KP go to Dallas if they don’t DRAFT Doncic? No.

Stars go to play with stars. They don’t agree to join teams that are overachieving with mediocre talent and an obvious ceiling.

I’ll say it again in case some of you conveniently forgot somehow -

The Orlando Magic have only been successful as a franchise historically because of their DRAFT picks.

Penny, Shaq, Dwight, etc. are players who made this organization watchable and competitive. You need those players first to attract other talent.

As another poster pointed out a few days ago... teams that make the 7th/8th rarely do anything moving forward. They usually end up rebuilding entirely.

Both Nets and Clippers proved to be playoff caliber team without stars, and they had been positioned themselves to have cap space to sign two stars in single offseason. That is what worked for them, not tanking for draft picks - which by the way, Nets had none for several years.

KP was traded to Dallas. That's also a road we should take to get a star, if it is available.

Except in neither of those situations do those players go to those teams if the other stars don’t go. Kawhi even made it part of the terms and it was a deal breaker. Does having those role players help? Yes. Was that the primary reason for their choice? No.

Dallas wouldn’t agree to trade assets for KP if they didn’t have a framework for him to immediately resign with them. He doesn’t agree to that if Doncic isn’t there.

Also, that doesn’t refute any of what I said about Orlando’s history. People just shouldn’t be surprised when the Magic aren’t players in free agency because they attempted to build backwards. It’s rarer for stars to sign with teams that don’t already have stars. That might happen with Isaac, but we are a long way away from that.

Dallas real risk was that KP might not come back to his former pre-injury self, not that he will not resign. It's hard to imagine him taking QO with him being seriously injured as he was.

Indeed stars fancy other stars, naturally, but they also require team of well-fitting roleplayers in strong organization fostering winning attitude. Rarely do you see them flock to Knicks, despite cap space, lottery picks or being in NY.

[VFX]

Both Nets and Clippers proved to be playoff caliber team without stars, and they had been positioned themselves to have cap space to sign two stars in single offseason. That is what worked for them, not tanking for draft picks - which by the way, Nets had none for several years.

KP was traded to Dallas. That's also a road we should take to get a star, if it is available.

Except in neither of those situations do those players go to those teams if the other stars don’t go. Kawhi even made it part of the terms and it was a deal breaker. Does having those role players help? Yes. Was that the primary reason for their choice? No.

Dallas wouldn’t agree to trade assets for KP if they didn’t have a framework for him to immediately resign with them. He doesn’t agree to that if Doncic isn’t there.

Also, that doesn’t refute any of what I said about Orlando’s history. People just shouldn’t be surprised when the Magic aren’t players in free agency because they attempted to build backwards. It’s rarer for stars to sign with teams that don’t already have stars. That might happen with Isaac, but we are a long way away from that.

Dallas real risk was that KP might not come back to his former pre-injury self, not that he will not resign. It's hard to imagine him taking QO with him being seriously injured as he was.

Indeed stars fancy other stars, naturally, but they also require team of well-fitting roleplayers in strong organization fostering winning attitude. Rarely do you see them flock to Knicks, despite cap space, lottery picks or being in NY.

Yeah because the Nets, Clippers, and Mavericks of the last 5 years have all been sterling examples of winning culture. /green

[p0peye]

Except in neither of those situations do those players go to those teams if the other stars don’t go. Kawhi even made it part of the terms and it was a deal breaker. Does having those role players help? Yes. Was that the primary reason for their choice? No.

Dallas wouldn’t agree to trade assets for KP if they didn’t have a framework for him to immediately resign with them. He doesn’t agree to that if Doncic isn’t there.

Also, that doesn’t refute any of what I said about Orlando’s history. People just shouldn’t be surprised when the Magic aren’t players in free agency because they attempted to build backwards. It’s rarer for stars to sign with teams that don’t already have stars. That might happen with Isaac, but we are a long way away from that.

Dallas real risk was that KP might not come back to his former pre-injury self, not that he will not resign. It's hard to imagine him taking QO with him being seriously injured as he was.

Indeed stars fancy other stars, naturally, but they also require team of well-fitting roleplayers in strong organization fostering winning attitude. Rarely do you see them flock to Knicks, despite cap space, lottery picks or being in NY.

Yeah because the Nets, Clippers, and Mavericks of the last 5 years have all been sterling examples of winning culture. /green

Indeed they have, save for Mavs who were simply lucky. Despite having no stars, they surprised most people as they clawed their ways to playoffs earning respect as competitor from fans, media and - as it turns out - from players, too.

[zaymon]

I predict we will trade Gordon in the offseason

Seems very likely his days here are numbered unless he goes on a heck of a hot streak to buy himself more time. He's failed to develop his scoring, shooting, handling and playmaking. You can't play through him, you can't play him full time at SF, and due to his strong desire to be a shot creator he's not really serving as a complimentary teammate to anyone. He could be used better at his natural PF position next to multiple star wings, but what does that matter if he has no future here in that role? Weltman's now got two of his own projects as starters in Fultz and Isaac... he'll likely want to compliment them with a better fitting wing sooner than later. Unfortunately for AG he is looking more and more like the odd man out.

I agree the problem is that we need an elite player and AG doesn't fetch us that. We'd have to gut the whole team essentially starting from scratch which i would be fine with as long as they pick a direction.

Well AG wont fetch us elite player thats for sure, but maybe we will get a future pick, developing young guy or veteran on a good contract. Weltman positioned us for a trade, we will see what happens. I dont think there is disgruntled superstar to get right now, which is fine becouse AG contract is getting better and better. Problem is starting from next year i would rather give minutes to Isaac and Okeke than Gordon. Aaron still is valueable player despite his lack of skill and decision making. He can cut or move the ball on offense, and guard offensive wings/ forwards in defense. Maybe some organization panicks they have no one to guard Leonard, Lebron, George, Giannis, Siakam, Simmons before the trade deadline.

[VFX]

Dallas real risk was that KP might not come back to his former pre-injury self, not that he will not resign. It's hard to imagine him taking QO with him being seriously injured as he was.

Indeed stars fancy other stars, naturally, but they also require team of well-fitting roleplayers in strong organization fostering winning attitude. Rarely do you see them flock to Knicks, despite cap space, lottery picks or being in NY.

Yeah because the Nets, Clippers, and Mavericks of the last 5 years have all been sterling examples of winning culture. /green

Indeed they have, save for Mavs who were simply lucky. Despite having no stars, they surprised most people as they clawed their ways to playoffs earning respect as competitor from fans, media and - as it turns out - from players, too.

That’s strange, I could have sworn it was because they were cities, and large markets, they all have personal connections to and decided to join together. The point is that if players aren’t deciding to team up together, truly competing organizations are drafting their core cornerstones. They aren’t signing them in free agency without already having an obvious star.

The only example contrary to this is Houston.

[BadMofoPimp]

This is a classic misconception.

Brooklyn acquired Durant and Kyrie Irving last off-season with little post season success. None of which was due to them the year prior.

Kawhi and Paul George team up last season in Los Angeles randomly after they finished 8th in the western conference.

Does KP go to Dallas if they don’t DRAFT Doncic? No.

Stars go to play with stars. They don’t agree to join teams that are overachieving with mediocre talent and an obvious ceiling.

I’ll say it again in case some of you conveniently forgot somehow -

The Orlando Magic have only been successful as a franchise historically because of their DRAFT picks.

Penny, Shaq, Dwight, etc. are players who made this organization watchable and competitive. You need those players first to attract other talent.

As another poster pointed out a few days ago... teams that make the 7th/8th rarely do anything moving forward. They usually end up rebuilding entirely.

Both Nets and Clippers proved to be playoff caliber team without stars, and they had been positioned themselves to have cap space to sign two stars in single offseason. That is what worked for them, not tanking for draft picks - which by the way, Nets had none for several years.

KP was traded to Dallas. That's also a road we should take to get a star, if it is available.

Except in neither of those situations do those players go to those teams if the other stars don’t go. Kawhi even made it part of the terms and it was a deal breaker. Does having those role players help? Yes. Was that the primary reason for their choice? No.

Dallas wouldn’t agree to trade assets for KP if they didn’t have a framework for him to immediately resign with them. He doesn’t agree to that if Doncic isn’t there.

Also, that doesn’t refute any of what I said about Orlando’s history. People just shouldn’t be surprised when the Magic aren’t players in free agency because they attempted to build backwards. It’s rarer for stars to sign with teams that don’t already have stars. That might happen with Isaac, but we are a long way away from that.

I predict years of heartache and anguish for those pro-tankers. Because, it will never happen here no matter how many times they post about it.

[VFX]

Both Nets and Clippers proved to be playoff caliber team without stars, and they had been positioned themselves to have cap space to sign two stars in single offseason. That is what worked for them, not tanking for draft picks - which by the way, Nets had none for several years.

KP was traded to Dallas. That's also a road we should take to get a star, if it is available.

Except in neither of those situations do those players go to those teams if the other stars don’t go. Kawhi even made it part of the terms and it was a deal breaker. Does having those role players help? Yes. Was that the primary reason for their choice? No.

Dallas wouldn’t agree to trade assets for KP if they didn’t have a framework for him to immediately resign with them. He doesn’t agree to that if Doncic isn’t there.

Also, that doesn’t refute any of what I said about Orlando’s history. People just shouldn’t be surprised when the Magic aren’t players in free agency because they attempted to build backwards. It’s rarer for stars to sign with teams that don’t already have stars. That might happen with Isaac, but we are a long way away from that.

I predict years of heartache and anguish for those pro-tankers. Because, it will never happen here no matter how many times they post about it.

Who said it was or will?

[BadMofoPimp]

Except in neither of those situations do those players go to those teams if the other stars don’t go. Kawhi even made it part of the terms and it was a deal breaker. Does having those role players help? Yes. Was that the primary reason for their choice? No.

Dallas wouldn’t agree to trade assets for KP if they didn’t have a framework for him to immediately resign with them. He doesn’t agree to that if Doncic isn’t there.

Also, that doesn’t refute any of what I said about Orlando’s history. People just shouldn’t be surprised when the Magic aren’t players in free agency because they attempted to build backwards. It’s rarer for stars to sign with teams that don’t already have stars. That might happen with Isaac, but we are a long way away from that.

I predict years of heartache and anguish for those pro-tankers. Because, it will never happen here no matter how many times they post about it.

Who said it was or will?

People claimed it could happen, but that type of trade will never happen with the Orlando magic organization. Not if management intend to keep their jobs.