Orlando FO doesn’t pick up & Call - Trade Offers

[MoMM]

For me I'm not disappointed by the job they've done.

1. They've drafted pretty well (Outside of Bamba). Issac/Okeke/Anthony all look like they're going to be really good players.

2. They were able to get a starting/6th man quality PG and asset in Fultz for pretty much nothing.

3. They were able to make the playoffs in back-to-back seasons while providing the young guys structure, experience, and roles to play during their development period

4. They were able to push the values of Gordon/Vucevic/Fournier a lot higher and flip them for better assets than they would've yielded for a few years ago because of said structure and fit that was implemented with Cifford.

5. Now with the unfortunate injuries (really being a blessing in disguise and lucky) the inevitable top 1-7 Pick in this deep draft they can draft a potential star player.

For a small market team in a new aged NBA where tanking isn't as effective anymore. They're really not in a bad spot at all. People here are just fed up because things aren't happening fast enough or the way they want it to.

So the justification of the last 4 years comes down to them nailing this draft and the roster being as healthy as it was in 2018-2019.

I also don’t believe Fournier and AG have had their value “pushed” under this FO. They would potentially be trading them as rentals. AG likely had more value before his last contract. Injuries are the only reason Orlando earns a top 5 pick in this draft not because of the FO. If they had their way we’d be picking 16th after getting swept by Brooklyn.

I’m actually praying for a 100% healthy season... not so Orlando’s FO can prove doubters wrong. Moreso to prove once and for all that they can’t use that as their excuse when everything breaks perfectly for them in a losing season inevitably ended in the first round regardless.

Of course tanking the season wasn't in their plans... But if they knock this pick out of the park do we really care about how it happened in 3-4 years? That's like docking the Spurs in 97 for drafting Tim Duncan as the first pick when David Robinson went down. All we care about now is Duncan won 5 Championships with the Spurs and they were able to build around him/draft really well during his Career.

That's why I don't understand why everyone would be so pessimistic now. We're tanking, the team hasn't lost/compromised our talent assets which made them good enough to make the playoffs the last few years (as everyone is injured) and we're in a running to draft a potential All-Star. Unless this team rips off X amount of wins I would think this is what everyone would have wanted.

It makes no sense to me...

I am fine with keeping Evan and Birch, but if we won't re-sign them we should trade them for whatever we can. For Evan we can get a nice package and for Birch at least a 2nd round pick, IMO.

As for AG, perhaps they will trade him only in the offseason when we know for sure what we got in the draft (which position), so we can use AG to improve our weakest position.

[VFX]

For me I'm not disappointed by the job they've done.

1. They've drafted pretty well (Outside of Bamba). Issac/Okeke/Anthony all look like they're going to be really good players.

2. They were able to get a starting/6th man quality PG and asset in Fultz for pretty much nothing.

3. They were able to make the playoffs in back-to-back seasons while providing the young guys structure, experience, and roles to play during their development period

4. They were able to push the values of Gordon/Vucevic/Fournier a lot higher and flip them for better assets than they would've yielded for a few years ago because of said structure and fit that was implemented with Cifford.

5. Now with the unfortunate injuries (really being a blessing in disguise and lucky) the inevitable top 1-7 Pick in this deep draft they can draft a potential star player.

For a small market team in a new aged NBA where tanking isn't as effective anymore. They're really not in a bad spot at all. People here are just fed up because things aren't happening fast enough or the way they want it to.

So the justification of the last 4 years comes down to them nailing this draft and the roster being as healthy as it was in 2018-2019.

I also don’t believe Fournier and AG have had their value “pushed” under this FO. They would potentially be trading them as rentals. AG likely had more value before his last contract. Injuries are the only reason Orlando earns a top 5 pick in this draft not because of the FO. If they had their way we’d be picking 16th after getting swept by Brooklyn.

I’m actually praying for a 100% healthy season... not so Orlando’s FO can prove doubters wrong. Moreso to prove once and for all that they can’t use that as their excuse when everything breaks perfectly for them in a losing season inevitably ended in the first round regardless.

Of course tanking the season wasn't in their plans... But if they knock this pick out of the park do we really care about how it happened in 3-4 years? That's like docking the Spurs in 97 for drafting Tim Duncan as the first pick when David Robinson went down. All we care about now is Duncan won 5 Championships with the Spurs and they were able to build around him/draft really well during his Career.

That's why I don't understand why everyone would be so pessimistic now. We're tanking, the team hasn't lost/compromised our talent assets which made them good enough to make the playoffs the last few years (as everyone is injured) and we're in a running to draft a potential All-Star. Unless this team rips off X amount of wins I would think this is what everyone would have wanted.

It makes no sense to me...

I understand the logic.

What I don’t understand is how they are given a pass by people for things completely out of their control, but at the same time aren’t scrutinized for complete lack of direction since they were hired. Roster decisions are still theirs to make.

If they draft the next building block, great. It might just save their jobs coupled with the injury excuse they’ve used almost every season.

[swarlesbarkley]

RE: Fultz

If his college shot ever comes back, he's immediately going to be in the all star conversation. Obviously that's a BIG IF at this point, but his 3pt shot visually improved since joining Orlando and I have to think that Weham have gotten some assurance from the medical team that it can return otherwise we would be making PG contingency plans (could be Cole, but that seemed like a BPA and 6th man-type guy). Still really bizarre to me how different his 2pt shot is compared to his 3pt shot. Just thinking about me playing at the YMCA, I have no idea how I'd be able to mentally change the way I shoot based on distance (ie 18 footer vs 23 footer).

If it doesn't come back, he would need to have a squad of shooters around him and he'd still be super successful. Even at full strength, the Magic rarely have more than 2 shooters on the floor at the same time so we haven't been able to see that part of Fultz yet.

I think Weham would trade AG for Oladipo if they had some sort of info that Fultz's shot can't come back.

Oladipo/Fultz/Cole
Fournier/Ross
Ennis/Okeke
Isaac
Vuc/Bamba
+ 2021 FRP

That's a squad that could be a 3-6 seed in the East. The fact that they haven't pulled the trigger on that deal tells me they have more faith in Fultz.

[Skybox]

RE: Fultz

If his college shot ever comes back, he's immediately going to be in the all star conversation. Obviously that's a BIG IF at this point, but his 3pt shot visually improved since joining Orlando and I have to think that Weham have gotten some assurance from the medical team that it can return otherwise we would be making PG contingency plans (could be Cole, but that seemed like a BPA and 6th man-type guy). Still really bizarre to me how different his 2pt shot is compared to his 3pt shot. Just thinking about me playing at the YMCA, I have no idea how I'd be able to mentally change the way I shoot based on distance (ie 18 footer vs 23 footer).

If it doesn't come back, he would need to have a squad of shooters around him and he'd still be super successful. Even at full strength, the Magic rarely have more than 2 shooters on the floor at the same time so we haven't been able to see that part of Fultz yet.

I think Weham would trade AG for Oladipo if they had some sort of info that Fultz's shot can't come back.

Oladipo/Fultz/Cole
Fournier/Ross
Ennis/Okeke
Isaac
Vuc/Bamba
+ 2021 FRP

That's a squad that could be a 3-6 seed in the East. The fact that they haven't pulled the trigger on that deal tells me they have more faith in Fultz.

I'm not as high on Oladipo in '21 as you, but I could get behind that if he wanted to be here and didn't expect 30m/yr.

I like your take on Fultz. He moves through crowds so effortlessly at times. It just seems like he should easily avg. 20ppg if he was more aggressive. He also seems to finish really well at the rim. That's my eye test...but he doesn't score a lot and he doesn't get to the line a lot considering what looks like an aggressive style. I still think he's worth surrounding with shooters (I didn't say "building team around him". I hear that crap about Vuc all the time). The way he controls the pace and penetrates and kicks-the game looks slowed down (kind of like SGA). If only he shot a bit better to keep them honest...I think he's way more formidable than Elfrid and he's still very young. I'm still in but it wouldn't keep me from drafting a combo guard like Suggs if he's BPA (not to replace but work together like Fox/Haliburton).

[Tarheel]

Still really bizarre to me how different his 2pt shot is compared to his 3pt shot. Just thinking about me playing at the YMCA, I have no idea how I'd be able to mentally change the way I shoot based on distance (ie 18 footer vs 23 footer).

I (unfortunately) disagree with this. I'm 32 now but have been playing since I was a kid - my form from 3 is different to my mid-range shot (not as big a difference as Markelle, but I've never had TOS). This is because I never went to the gym or built up any upper body muscle, so from 3 a lot more of the 'push' has to come from my legs, from mid-range and in I can just jump and flick the ball in using arm/shoulder strength only.

It's the same with Fultz, though I don't think it's strength, per se. I think he doesn't trust the arm/shoulder enough to put that much load through it, or if he does it won't be comfortable, so he compensates by adding force with his legs. You can see in the way he loads up to shoot from 3 (it's why it takes him so long to get the shot off and why he leaves the ground less - the leg force is going into the shot rather than the jump).

Not to say it can't be fixed (I think with rehab he may begin to trust it again), but the idea that it can because his mid-range form is a lot better is something of a misnomer to me.

[Skybox]

Still really bizarre to me how different his 2pt shot is compared to his 3pt shot. Just thinking about me playing at the YMCA, I have no idea how I'd be able to mentally change the way I shoot based on distance (ie 18 footer vs 23 footer).

I (unfortunately) disagree with this. I'm 32 now but have been playing since I was a kid - my form from 3 is different to my mid-range shot (not as big a difference as Markelle, but I've never had TOS). This is because I never went to the gym or built up any upper body muscle, so from 3 a lot more of the 'push' has to come from my legs, from mid-range and in I can just jump and flick the ball in using arm/shoulder strength only.

It's the same with Fultz, though I don't think it's strength, per se. I think he doesn't trust the arm/shoulder enough to put that much load through it, or if he does it won't be comfortable, so he compensates by adding force with his legs. You can see in the way he loads up to shoot from 3 (it's why it takes him so long to get the shot off and why he leaves the ground less - the leg force is going into the shot rather than the jump).

Not to say it can't be fixed (I think with rehab he may begin to trust it again), but the idea that it can because his mid-range form is a lot better is something of a misnomer to me.

That's the way I was always taught...consistent upper body, lower body adds the range...like selecting a longer club in golf, but same swing.

[swarlesbarkley]

Well it seems like we have the belle of the ball of this year's trade deadline in Gordon. If Weham had any negotiation skills, they would be able to leverage deals from the 4-5 teams into a trade that we win. It's going to be really disappointing if we don't move Gordon with this much interest because we'll get less and less value for him the closer we get to his contract ending.

[swarlesbarkley]

Still really bizarre to me how different his 2pt shot is compared to his 3pt shot. Just thinking about me playing at the YMCA, I have no idea how I'd be able to mentally change the way I shoot based on distance (ie 18 footer vs 23 footer).

I (unfortunately) disagree with this. I'm 32 now but have been playing since I was a kid - my form from 3 is different to my mid-range shot (not as big a difference as Markelle, but I've never had TOS). This is because I never went to the gym or built up any upper body muscle, so from 3 a lot more of the 'push' has to come from my legs, from mid-range and in I can just jump and flick the ball in using arm/shoulder strength only.

It's the same with Fultz, though I don't think it's strength, per se. I think he doesn't trust the arm/shoulder enough to put that much load through it, or if he does it won't be comfortable, so he compensates by adding force with his legs. You can see in the way he loads up to shoot from 3 (it's why it takes him so long to get the shot off and why he leaves the ground less - the leg force is going into the shot rather than the jump).

Not to say it can't be fixed (I think with rehab he may begin to trust it again), but the idea that it can because his mid-range form is a lot better is something of a misnomer to me.

Interesting. I appreciate the info. For the record I'm not saying that since his mid-range looks a certain way that means he can make his 3 look that way. I'm saying his mid and 3 shot was the same form in college so if he can get the same form back from NBA 3 there will be a huge improvement. As it is right now - it's gotta be difficult mentally to switch shot styles depending on distance especially since he didn't have to think about that prior to TOS. In your case maybe it wasn't difficult because it was always different - but for Fultz it's new.

[EasternMagic]

anyone who reads this snippet from the article and thinks that it's 100% accurate is just ignorant.