How The Magic Can Put Jalen Suggs In A Position To Thrive From Day One (Dime)

[pepe1991]

He plays defense so Pepe doesn’t understand his value added.

My all time favorite players are Duncan and Durant... So it's clear i value defense. But not Mo Bamba and Aaron Gordon type of "defense" where players goes fishing for blocks or steals and ruins concept of team defense due > 60 BBIQ . 37 years old Duncan could hardly move and was better defender than those 2 were in mid 20s by using his brain only.

Anyway, i don't think things Wagner was able to do at college are that transending in nba.
I don't think he has latheral quickness nor strenght to be anything more than average defender. If he plays SF he will be tasked to guard some of most athletic players in whole world.

His shooting today isn't really his strenght, he isn't terrible nor he has broken form, but it doesn't go in at good rate.

As a ballhandler, against elite athletes, i just can't see him creating any serious ,effective offense. His handles are not that good and he does not have quick enough first step to be effective if he is slotted at SF.

I also don't think his best postion in nba is SF, it's probably PF. Especially if he is 6'10 now.

Now, can you move him at PF and play Isaac at Center? Maybe. But to me that's too many moving parts of roster to be sucessful, especially because it's just easier to use top 5-8 pick in 2022 to draft "normal" center anyway.

I'm not "mad" on Orlando for drafting him, but it's boring safe pick. Low upside, low ceiling.

I think you are underestimating him. Not many players move like him at 6'10. Players like him are often silent parts of contenders.
Hedo Turkoglu, Tayshaun Prince.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

He moves at least as good as Turkoglu and his shooting and passing also feels more advanced.

Guys like Turkogulu and Galinari were able to beat their men off dribble because they were amazing shooters so defenders would overreact to their pumpfakes and spotups and sprint to contest it, it would allow them to serve them pumpfake, keep defenders on heels and pass by. But if player can't shoot and in same time can't beat his man off dribble (especially because defenders can sag off a bit ) how execlly he will influence offense?
I mean, do you really want to run pick&pop mid range jumpers with him? I don't. No serious offense will implement that in their set.

Franz right now flat out is not good shooter. We have 234 shot attemps to prove it. He wasn't even average college outside shooter. It doesn't even take in account that he never felt comfortable taking them. There were many times where he was wide open and just pass shot for worst shot or his teammate's worst shot.
I mean his brother actually shot ball better at college level than he did, and his brother flat out can't be nba "shooter". (or nba player for that matter...)

In his pre-college years, Wagner’s main appeal was his jumper. Wagner shot 38.4% from three on 125 attempts as a 17-year-old. He had a .472 3-point attempt rate and shot an absurd 89.2% from the foul line. So, it was a tad bit surprising when Wagner shot 31.1% from three as a freshman at Michigan.

This is clear indicator that size and lenght at college level bothered him to the point where he never felt confident shooting. In NBA 3 point line is even further and athletes are 5 times better.

He hit 37.7% of his 69 two-point makes away from the rim but more on the account of his non-dunk finishes that didn’t qualifying as coming within the immediate basket area. For the most part, Wagner hasn’t yet shown much dexterity or particularly impressive touch on his runners (at times launching what seemed like a catapult floater) and struggles to create enough separation to launch high quality pull-up jumpers from mid-range because of his long, slow release.


Franz overall isn't terrible pick if you are fine with 8th pick being 10 years pro, role player like Aminu is ( also 8th pick). But if you want some star player or game changer, you won't find one in him.

[Knightro]

37 years old Duncan could hardly move and was better defender than those 2 were in mid 20s by using his brain only.

Anyway, i don't think things Wagner was able to do at college are that transending in nba.
I don't think he has latheral quickness nor strenght to be anything more than average defender. If he plays SF he will be tasked to guard some of most athletic players in whole world.

I have no idea if Wagner will be good or not, but I do think it's interesting that you pointed out that Duncan was still a successful defender even when his movement skills had deteriorated, but then you cite Wagner's lack of movement as a reason why he won't be a good defender.

Now granted I know guarding wings vs. guarding bigs is a different animal, but one of Wagner's biggest selling points was his BBIQ and instincts defensively so I'm optimistic.

[Optimus_Steel]

along with a few people, i dont view Suggs as a "flawed initiator". i dont view him as a 15 apg player. but then, there were only 2 players last year in double digit assists. I dont see any reason why Suggs couldnt be in the 6-7 apg range. as for his handle, he'll be a rookie, focusing solely on basketball, i dont see any worry that he cant tighten it up.

just dont agree with the premise of the article i guess.

The best thing I see about Suggs is that even from pages that always hated Orlando Magic and always will, it's really difficult to find clear weaknesses in his game.

Go check out the TOR RealGM...lots of rationalizing going on there. I thought all Canadians were nice

Having been in Canada to vacation, they are. Just touchy about the Raps.

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[zaymon]

My all time favorite players are Duncan and Durant... So it's clear i value defense. But not Mo Bamba and Aaron Gordon type of "defense" where players goes fishing for blocks or steals and ruins concept of team defense due > 60 BBIQ . 37 years old Duncan could hardly move and was better defender than those 2 were in mid 20s by using his brain only.

Anyway, i don't think things Wagner was able to do at college are that transending in nba.
I don't think he has latheral quickness nor strenght to be anything more than average defender. If he plays SF he will be tasked to guard some of most athletic players in whole world.

His shooting today isn't really his strenght, he isn't terrible nor he has broken form, but it doesn't go in at good rate.

As a ballhandler, against elite athletes, i just can't see him creating any serious ,effective offense. His handles are not that good and he does not have quick enough first step to be effective if he is slotted at SF.

I also don't think his best postion in nba is SF, it's probably PF. Especially if he is 6'10 now.

Now, can you move him at PF and play Isaac at Center? Maybe. But to me that's too many moving parts of roster to be sucessful, especially because it's just easier to use top 5-8 pick in 2022 to draft "normal" center anyway.

I'm not "mad" on Orlando for drafting him, but it's boring safe pick. Low upside, low ceiling.

I think you are underestimating him. Not many players move like him at 6'10. Players like him are often silent parts of contenders.
Hedo Turkoglu, Tayshaun Prince.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

He moves at least as good as Turkoglu and his shooting and passing also feels more advanced.

Guys like Turkogulu and Galinari were able to beat their men off dribble because they were amazing shooters so defenders would overreact to their pumpfakes and spotups and sprint to contest it, it would allow them to serve them pumpfake, keep defenders on heels and pass by. But if player can't shoot and in same time can't beat his man off dribble (especially because defenders can sag off a bit ) how execlly he will influence offense?
I mean, do you really want to run pick&pop mid range jumpers with him? I don't. No serious offense will implement that in their set.

Franz right now flat out is not good shooter. We have 234 shot attemps to prove it. He wasn't even average college outside shooter. It doesn't even take in account that he never felt comfortable taking them. There were many times where he was wide open and just pass shot for worst shot or his teammate's worst shot.
I mean his brother actually shot ball better at college level than he did, and his brother flat out can't be nba "shooter". (or nba player for that matter...)

In his pre-college years, Wagner’s main appeal was his jumper. Wagner shot 38.4% from three on 125 attempts as a 17-year-old. He had a .472 3-point attempt rate and shot an absurd 89.2% from the foul line. So, it was a tad bit surprising when Wagner shot 31.1% from three as a freshman at Michigan.

This is clear indicator that size and lenght at college level bothered him to the point where he never felt confident shooting. In NBA 3 point line is even further and athletes are 5 times better.

He hit 37.7% of his 69 two-point makes away from the rim but more on the account of his non-dunk finishes that didn’t qualifying as coming within the immediate basket area. For the most part, Wagner hasn’t yet shown much dexterity or particularly impressive touch on his runners (at times launching what seemed like a catapult floater) and struggles to create enough separation to launch high quality pull-up jumpers from mid-range because of his long, slow release.


Franz overall isn't terrible pick if you are fine with 8th pick being 10 years pro, role player like Aminu is ( also 8th pick). But if you want some star player or game changer, you won't find one in him.

Yeah a lot depends on his shot, but his indicators are propably better than Hedo. He is also better defender. I would love to have Hedo 2.0 on our team even tough he was never an allstar.

[fateis007]

My all time favorite players are Duncan and Durant... So it's clear i value defense. But not Mo Bamba and Aaron Gordon type of "defense" where players goes fishing for blocks or steals and ruins concept of team defense due > 60 BBIQ . 37 years old Duncan could hardly move and was better defender than those 2 were in mid 20s by using his brain only.

Anyway, i don't think things Wagner was able to do at college are that transending in nba.
I don't think he has latheral quickness nor strenght to be anything more than average defender. If he plays SF he will be tasked to guard some of most athletic players in whole world.

His shooting today isn't really his strenght, he isn't terrible nor he has broken form, but it doesn't go in at good rate.

As a ballhandler, against elite athletes, i just can't see him creating any serious ,effective offense. His handles are not that good and he does not have quick enough first step to be effective if he is slotted at SF.

I also don't think his best postion in nba is SF, it's probably PF. Especially if he is 6'10 now.

Now, can you move him at PF and play Isaac at Center? Maybe. But to me that's too many moving parts of roster to be sucessful, especially because it's just easier to use top 5-8 pick in 2022 to draft "normal" center anyway.

I'm not "mad" on Orlando for drafting him, but it's boring safe pick. Low upside, low ceiling.

I think you are underestimating him. Not many players move like him at 6'10. Players like him are often silent parts of contenders.
Hedo Turkoglu, Tayshaun Prince.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

He moves at least as good as Turkoglu and his shooting and passing also feels more advanced.

Guys like Turkogulu and Galinari were able to beat their men off dribble because they were amazing shooters so defenders would overreact to their pumpfakes and spotups and sprint to contest it, it would allow them to serve them pumpfake, keep defenders on heels and pass by. But if player can't shoot and in same time can't beat his man off dribble (especially because defenders can sag off a bit ) how execlly he will influence offense?
I mean, do you really want to run pick&pop mid range jumpers with him? I don't. No serious offense will implement that in their set.

Franz right now flat out is not good shooter. We have 234 shot attemps to prove it. He wasn't even average college outside shooter. It doesn't even take in account that he never felt comfortable taking them. There were many times where he was wide open and just pass shot for worst shot or his teammate's worst shot.
I mean his brother actually shot ball better at college level than he did, and his brother flat out can't be nba "shooter". (or nba player for that matter...)

In his pre-college years, Wagner’s main appeal was his jumper. Wagner shot 38.4% from three on 125 attempts as a 17-year-old. He had a .472 3-point attempt rate and shot an absurd 89.2% from the foul line. So, it was a tad bit surprising when Wagner shot 31.1% from three as a freshman at Michigan.

This is clear indicator that size and lenght at college level bothered him to the point where he never felt confident shooting. In NBA 3 point line is even further and athletes are 5 times better.

He hit 37.7% of his 69 two-point makes away from the rim but more on the account of his non-dunk finishes that didn’t qualifying as coming within the immediate basket area. For the most part, Wagner hasn’t yet shown much dexterity or particularly impressive touch on his runners (at times launching what seemed like a catapult floater) and struggles to create enough separation to launch high quality pull-up jumpers from mid-range because of his long, slow release.


Franz overall isn't terrible pick if you are fine with 8th pick being 10 years pro, role player like Aminu is ( also 8th pick). But if you want some star player or game changer, you won't find one in him.

Good Old Pepe using a small sample size of a 19 year old and his clairvoyant abilities to make a subjective opinion on a players ENTIRE career. my god man, give it a season atleast. God forbid he he actually shoots just a 5-10% better from the 3, considering he shoots 80%+ from the line and has a good form. But nope, he is a 10 year role player at best boys, wrap it up. The psychic has spoken.

[tiderulz]

lol, Hedo came into the league as a 21 yr old shooting 41% from the field 31% from 3, didnt even take 3+ 3pt attempts until his 4th year in the league. so bad shooter AND hesitant to shoot in the beginning. Franz at 19 is ahead of Hedo's development as an outside shooter. And Franz is by far more developed as a defender. again, as a 19 yr old. I'll just sit back and watch how Franz develops. its going to be interested to see when he stops growing and see what his final position will be. Can he still stay at SF, will he be a combo forward or move to PF full time. who knows, we have 4 years to see. here we are again, proclaiming what a 19 yr old will be and what his ceiling is before he even gets on the court for us.

[pepe1991]

lol, Hedo came into the league as a 21 yr old shooting 41% from the field 31% from 3, didnt even take 3+ 3pt attempts until his 4th year in the league. so bad shooter AND hesitant to shoot in the beginning. Franz at 19 is ahead of Hedo's development as an outside shooter. And Franz is by far more developed as a defender. again, as a 19 yr old. I'll just sit back and watch how Franz develops. its going to be interested to see when he stops growing and see what his final position will be. Can he still stay at SF, will he be a combo forward or move to PF full time. who knows, we have 4 years to see. here we are again, proclaiming what a 19 yr old will be and what his ceiling is before he even gets on the court for us.

Hedo shot 51% for 3 for Efes year prior entering draft.. but hey... Let's use rookie stats of non lottery pick who landed on contender (55 wins team) and use that to comparison to college seasons of other player. Hilaroius.
Hedo's early years where hard as he played on one of best NBA team those years. But he was drafted as plus shooter. It was always his strenght.
Comparison with him and Wagner is simply misleading. They are white and 6'10, so are probably 100000 other people

[tiderulz]

i dont engage certain people anymore. feel free to post whatever you want.

[drsd]

lol, Hedo came into the league as a 21 yr old shooting 41% from the field 31% from 3, didnt even take 3+ 3pt attempts until his 4th year in the league. so bad shooter AND hesitant to shoot in the beginning. Franz at 19 is ahead of Hedo's development as an outside shooter. And Franz is by far more developed as a defender. again, as a 19 yr old. I'll just sit back and watch how Franz develops. its going to be interested to see when he stops growing and see what his final position will be. Can he still stay at SF, will he be a combo forward or move to PF full time. who knows, we have 4 years to see. here we are again, proclaiming what a 19 yr old will be and what his ceiling is before he even gets on the court for us.

To be fair to the Wagner naysayers, of which I am NOT one of, Türkoğlu was the #16 pick in his draft and not #8.


..

[tiderulz]

lol, Hedo came into the league as a 21 yr old shooting 41% from the field 31% from 3, didnt even take 3+ 3pt attempts until his 4th year in the league. so bad shooter AND hesitant to shoot in the beginning. Franz at 19 is ahead of Hedo's development as an outside shooter. And Franz is by far more developed as a defender. again, as a 19 yr old. I'll just sit back and watch how Franz develops. its going to be interested to see when he stops growing and see what his final position will be. Can he still stay at SF, will he be a combo forward or move to PF full time. who knows, we have 4 years to see. here we are again, proclaiming what a 19 yr old will be and what his ceiling is before he even gets on the court for us.

To be fair to the Wagner naysayers, of which I am NOT one of, Türkoğlu was the #16 pick in his draft and not #8.


..

its all fair. And Hedo turned out to be a really good player, even if he was never an allstar (which is a popularity contest more than anything nowadays). Franz is coming in shooting 34% on 3.5 fga's. so he is willing to take the shot and makes it more than 1/3 of the time. i look forward to seeing what type of player he becomes, without putting any artificial ceiling on him, or any labels about what he can and cant do.

[orthoman]

Suggs is an Alpha Dog...just give him the ball and let him run with it.

Who gives a s***... who shoots....just let him go and distribute.

[basketballRob]

lol, Hedo came into the league as a 21 yr old shooting 41% from the field 31% from 3, didnt even take 3+ 3pt attempts until his 4th year in the league. so bad shooter AND hesitant to shoot in the beginning. Franz at 19 is ahead of Hedo's development as an outside shooter. And Franz is by far more developed as a defender. again, as a 19 yr old. I'll just sit back and watch how Franz develops. its going to be interested to see when he stops growing and see what his final position will be. Can he still stay at SF, will he be a combo forward or move to PF full time. who knows, we have 4 years to see. here we are again, proclaiming what a 19 yr old will be and what his ceiling is before he even gets on the court for us.

To be fair to the Wagner naysayers, of which I am NOT one of, Türkoğlu was the #16 pick in his draft and not #8.


..

its all fair. And Hedo turned out to be a really good player, even if he was never an allstar (which is a popularity contest more than anything nowadays). Franz is coming in shooting 34% on 3.5 fga's. so he is willing to take the shot and makes it more than 1/3 of the time. i look forward to seeing what type of player he becomes, without putting any artificial ceiling on him, or any labels about what he can and cant do.

He mentioned in the Magic podcast that he shot the ball bad last season and can do better.

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