Xatticus wrote:pepe1991 wrote:You have a dogmatic and obtuse manner about you. You attack the character of individuals you dislike and you incessantly push false narratives to create an alternate reality that I think you actually believe, but which is absurd from my perspective.
Example: You detest Bamba. You are constantly attacking his character.
This is apsurd. It's hilarious that you accuse me for having personal attacks of players, but in same time you have no issue going after my character.
False narratives ? Comming from guy who called Nikola Vučević and Evan Fournier "turds" but was gushing over Payton and Bamba. Hypocricy ? Maybe you don't like their skin color? Place of birth ?

It's so easy to create fale narrative. But i actually never do it.
I call bad players- bad players.
You have tried, convicted, and sentenced Bamba before he has even been given an honest opportunity to develop. He has been jerked around by a crotchety and stubborn old mule that had no business being around a young roster.
Excuses excuses. They always sound best for ones who make them.
Nikola Vučević -gone. Khem Birch- gone, Guess who still didn't start nor took opportunity to prove himself? Bamba.
Stubborn old mule ? Interesting way how to describe coach who is pretty much about same age as most veteran coaches.
16 out of 30 coaches on start of 2019-20 season were at least 50 years old. 6 were older than 60.
One was given the opportunity to flourish. The other hasn't been thus far. That's the difference.
Difference is clear. But not one you suggest. One was no lottery pick that grabbed chance to prove himself in nba, in second year and runned with it. By year 3 was top 8 nba rebounder , by year four was 16# in nba in scoring and 6# in nba in rebounding.
Other... did nothing. He was matched with Wendell Carter, another draft dissapointment, and yet, Wendell was simply better.
If you can't see the hypocrisy in how you treat the two of them, then I don't know what to tell you.
And you can't see hypocricy by calling two time allstar turd and being fanboy of 6,4 ppg, -0,3 RPM / one of worst BPM players in nba, who also happend to have one of worst net ratings ? This also is my direct respons to your argument that "Bamba was better than Vuc at his stage". Bamba's advanced stats are pathetic. But that's not only important point. Other, far more important that he Vučević numbers were against nba starters. Against superstars and stars who he was tasked to play with from year 2 up to this date. Mo Bamba is bench player who plays almost all his min against bench players, yet ,still has terrible numbers, both counting numbers and advanced ones.
As for going into this rabbithole of "anti and pro" Bamba i refuse to get too deep into it because it's d*** measuring contest.
IT's like Payton thing. Every time he had bad game his fanboys were offline. Every time he had semi fine game his fanboys were witch-hunting around forum for "haters".
I don't "hate" Bamba nor i hate anybody. But like it's case with Cole ( where we both tend to agree) i have my opinion about him and it will take some hard lifting by his behalf to see him as anything more than physical speciment who has very poor work ethic, who is lazy and who after 3 yeras of nba never developed any basketball skill.
I get that English isn't your first language, so I'm not going to mock your ignorance. You do have the internet though? You do have idioms wherever your are from or wherever you live? You do have google? I think you play dumb when it suits you (e.g. per game stats).
I didn't call Vucevic or Fournier turds. I called them polished turds. It's a reference to the idiom that "you can't polish a turd". It means that you can't make something bad more appealing. Surely you can appreciate why this doesn't apply to Bamba or Payton? We never paid them a king's ransom. We never tried to construct teams around them. Payton was never even given an extension. He never even earned as much as $3M in a season from the Orlando Magic. This franchise paid Vucevic around $90M and it was on the hook for another $60M+ until he was traded. We constructed rosters around him. We traded Oladipo and a lottery pick to try to find a front-court partner to complement his deficiencies.
I don't think you have an appreciation for how terrible Vucevic was at Bamba's age. He walked into a lineup with JJ Redick, Jameer Nelson, and Arron Afflalo. That team had the remnants of what was a competitive squad the year before. The big change? Howard for Vucevic. The team cratered because Vucevic sucked at the age of 22. A lot of credit for that also goes to Harkless. The point is: you don't give up on players before they've had the opportunity to develop. I get why you point out Bamba's net differentials, but do you not understand that Vucevic's were just as bad at the same age? He didn't actually put together a decent season until the age of 27. His first legitimately good season came a year later. This past season when he put up "career numbers" he was terrible. So we got a window of about two decent years from him in nine seasons.
You blame the wrong **** people for this franchise's lot. It's staring you in the face. It's the dudes on the floor that are responsible for the losses. Wes Iwundu is not why this franchise has sucked. I feel like there must be some pepe on the Dallas forums blaming their failures on Tyler Bey's shooting.
Orlando never tried to build rosters around Vuc and Evan.
You mentioned Oladipo for Ibaka swap, but failed to mention that in same free agency, Magic signed Biyombo on 4 years , $80M contract as clear indicator that they didn't want to build around Vučević. But as soon as season started it was obvious that Biyombo has no business being nba rotation player, let alone starter.
I don't think you have an appreciation for how terrible Vucevic was at Bamba's age
I love how you always flip this argument and compare seasons instad of age, when it fits your argument, but now you will compare age? Vuc, in 4th nba season averaged 19 ppg and 11 rpg, in both major box score categories was in top 20.
Will Bamba average 19 -11 ? Will Bamba in any league average 19-11? Answer is probably not.
He walked into a lineup with JJ Redick, Jameer Nelson, and Arron Afflalo. That team had the remnants of what was a competitive squad the year before. The big change? Howard for Vucevic
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait what?
So 2011-12 roster who had 37-29 record had:
Ryan Anderson ( second leading scorer)
Jason Richardson ( career 37% shooter)
Hedo Turkogulu
coach. SVG.
2012-13 Magic roster
2012-13
Turkogulu playing 11 games whole season ( injury, steroids)
Nelson playing 56 games
19 yeras old Harkless starting
E'Twaun Moore (55th pick) averaging 22 mpg and starting 28 games.
Tobias Harris playing first serious NBA min of his career
JJ Redick traded mid season
coach: JVCome on man, you are better than this fiasco of argument.
I get why you point out Bamba's net differentials, but do you not understand that Vucevic's were just as bad at the same age?
No, they were really not.
2012-13 Vuc -8,3 net rating
2013-14 -5,3
2014-15 - 6,1
2015-16 - 1,2
2016-17 - 3,5
they were always negative , actaully very expected given Magic records through that, but he was never sniffing anywhere near -10, where Bamba has been twice in three years. Also i don't really compare net rating of players on contending team vs players on sucking teams, i always compare them relative to team's net rating. Vuc net rating was pretty much always in line with teams rating through this year and he was always among better performing ones.
This past season when he put up "career numbers" he was terrible. So we got a window of about two decent years from him in nine seasons.
I don't agree with this , obviously. Vučević was great player from year 3 to year 9. Orlando just always was in that semi-rebuild, semi-wannabe competitive limbo, and as usual, didn't attract free agents to improve team and in same time didn't draft good enough to develop own stars.
Vučević didn't fail Orlando, Orlando was failed by army of sky high lottery picks, including Bamba, that never brought any sucess to a team. From 2013 to 2018, Magic drafted 8 lottery piayers and not a single one turned into star for them. If you need your fault-guy, look there first.
And as you mentioned contracts, Vuc today isn't even top 40 player on payroll. Opposite of it, Orlando burns salary of Isaac and Fultz who have regular DNP-injury attached to their names for vast majority of their careers.
Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans. -John Lennon