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2021-2022 Regular Season Game 19: Charlotte Hornets (11-8) at Orlando Magic (4-14) - 11/24/21 at 7pm ET

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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 19: Charlotte Hornets (11-8) at Orlando Magic (4-14) - 11/24/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#121 » by pepe1991 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:25 am

Bamba failed to draw FT foul (or any foul in bonus) for 8th time in last 9 games.
This has to be some record :lol:
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 19: Charlotte Hornets (11-8) at Orlando Magic (4-14) - 11/24/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#122 » by Knightro » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:35 am

otownflava21 wrote:21 FTA vs just 8 FTA for us. Is it the refs disrespect towards us or do we continue to fail to draw contact. This costed us the game


With Anthony out, there's a glaring lack of dynamic off the dribble ability right now. Hard to draw fouls when you lack guys who can get into the lane with some athleticism.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 19: Charlotte Hornets (11-8) at Orlando Magic (4-14) - 11/24/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#123 » by MagicStarwipe » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:44 am

Bamba is improved from past seasons. He's getting his first real big taste of in game experience. I have no major problems with him considering where the team is at currently and it's certainly possible that he could continue improving. I find it slightly weird to single him out so much considering all of the other shortcomings of the team right now.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 19: Charlotte Hornets (11-8) at Orlando Magic (4-14) - 11/24/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#124 » by pepe1991 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:23 am

MagicStarwipe wrote:Bamba is improved from past seasons. He's getting his first real big taste of in game experience. I have no major problems with him considering where the team is at currently and it's certainly possible that he could continue improving. I find it slightly weird to single him out so much considering all of the other shortcomings of the team right now.


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But he really didn't improve at all. His counting stats are better than prvious years because he plays almost twice as many minutes he used to play. His rebounding percentages, efficiency, even blocks percentages are actually lower than they were when he was backup. But ofc he will score more points & grab more rebounds in 30 min, opposite of 14 min.

If you look his raw production, he averaged last year 16 mpg 8,00 ppg , 5,8 rpg in 16 min on 53,5% eFG.
On 30 mpg , he averages 10,8 ppg, 9,1 rpg and 52,4% eFG.

That's execlly why i always tried to pull down "per 36 " inflated garbage stats that people here tried to use to project him as "elite player buried on bench".

I,personally never "singled him out". I was very low on him midway through year 2 because he just doesn't seem to care nor improved all that much from college to year two of nba. That trend of him being letargic and same player year in and year out is main reason i would post in "negative" way about him.
When season started and he had string of like preseason + 3 good regular season games, there were literally posts how he finally "breaking free from Clifford boot" , how he will be MIP, how he finally lives to potential. How amazing he is.
I found that talk annoying, to be honest, because sample size was 3 games. In contract year.
We now have only 19 games sample , but we already see all the bad habbits back.Habbits that made him be Cliffford's "whooping boy" and constantly in "doghouse".
If Orlando is today trying to win games- Bamba would be on bench.
Once Isaac is back -Bamba is going to bench.
If Orlando actually tries to put best players out there, Lopez would surpass him in rotation.

It's just obvious what he is. Bench player on top 5 worst team. If you can't be starter on top 5 worst team in nba, where execlly, in NBA, you can be good player?
Among Magic starters who has worst net rating? Bamba. In 3 out of 4 years in nba who every year has horrid net rating regardless of position, playing time and usage- Bamba.
In 3 out of 4 years who has been one of worst pick&roll bigs ? Bamba. Who is the worst pick&roll big among centers today? Bamba.

Orlando once upon a time invested 6th overall, lottery pick in him. We can keep investing money in him, we can resign him on 4 yeears contract, but what's the point ?At what point investing time and money in him become fruitless job? We could have invested money into new Hezonja or Payton's contract. We didn't. It pains me to say, both showed more than Bamba in first 3 years here.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 19: Charlotte Hornets (11-8) at Orlando Magic (4-14) - 11/24/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#125 » by cedric76 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:24 am

Ducklett wrote:
Knightro wrote:This team needs real playmaking from the point guard position. They have a lot of intriguing pieces, but they're just lacking that high end playmaker.


Isnt that why we drafted Suggs...


We drafted him because Barnes wasn't available when we picked, Suggs isn't a true PG

Fultz is our PG
with the 8th pick the Orlando Magic select Moses Moody
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 19: Charlotte Hornets (11-8) at Orlando Magic (4-14) - 11/24/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#126 » by drsd » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:47 am

Knightro wrote:GAMBLING
Magic +7


Orlando gets the Push: result!



..
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 19: Charlotte Hornets (11-8) at Orlando Magic (4-14) - 11/24/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#127 » by drsd » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:50 am

otownflava21 wrote:21 FTA vs just 8 FTA for us. Is it the refs disrespect towards us or do we continue to fail to draw contact. This costed us the game


Attacking defenders also results in them getting to foul trouble ; and thus softening on defense.

I really like how Suggs and F-Wagner attack in this regard. And Bamba's unwillingness to promote contact is why Carter will be the starting C when Isaac comes for the PF slot.


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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 19: Charlotte Hornets (11-8) at Orlando Magic (4-14) - 11/24/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#128 » by drsd » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:57 am

The box score says it all: strong play from the starting five and horrible, terribly and bench play.

Some positives:
1) F-Wagner dominated Hayward
2) Good to see Suggs run the natural point as a lead guard effectively
3) Another double-double for the front-court double. Carter and Bamba are excellent compliments
4) M-Wagner continues to prove his value to this team

Negatives:
All the rest.

Lost the TO battle by 4
Lost the FG% battle
Lost the FT-attempt battle horribly


,,,


The Magic simply beed Fultz and Isaac to provide reasonable depth.

Orlando has 11 road games over the next 16, and the losses will now really pile on. This 'Cats game was Orlando's last, best hope to win this year.


..
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 19: Charlotte Hornets (11-8) at Orlando Magic (4-14) - 11/24/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#129 » by drsd » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:58 am

SOUL wrote:Also sorry for being grumpy. Told myself this season I wouldn't argue silly things but it's ingrained in me :lol:


Like whether the Magic can win 20 games this season?


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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 19: Charlotte Hornets (11-8) at Orlando Magic (4-14) - 11/24/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#130 » by Optimus_Steel » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:14 pm

drsd wrote:
SOUL wrote:Also sorry for being grumpy. Told myself this season I wouldn't argue silly things but it's ingrained in me


Like whether the Magic can win 20 games this season?


..
That is going to be tough....

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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 19: Charlotte Hornets (11-8) at Orlando Magic (4-14) - 11/24/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#131 » by Bergmaniac » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:46 pm

I was shocked when I looked at the boxscore at the end of the game and saw we had only 14 turnovers, it felt like we had way more. Suggs has the vision and passing skills to be a good playmaker, he knows how to read the game very well for a rookie, but his handle is a huge problem, you can't be an effective ballhandler in the NBA with such a loose handle.

Given the way both teams played I was shocked it was close throughout, it felt like the Hornets were always in control.

Franz with a bounceback game, nice to see. His brother had some good moments too.

JTG_92940618 wrote:I've never seen a player like Bamba where the eye test and the stats are so at odds.

One thing is for sure, he's exploitable when it matters.

I don't think there is much of a discrepancy, His stats are mediocre and so is his play most of the time. 11 PPG on a league average efficiency when you are mostly shooting wide open jumpers and you are on a team that gives you plenty of shots due to lack of talent is nothing to write home about. He is getting 9 RPG which is about average for a starting centre who plays 30 MPG. His foul drawing rate is really bad. Only the block average stand out as an impressive stat.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 19: Charlotte Hornets (11-8) at Orlando Magic (4-14) - 11/24/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#132 » by tiderulz » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:56 pm

cedric76 wrote:
Ducklett wrote:
Knightro wrote:This team needs real playmaking from the point guard position. They have a lot of intriguing pieces, but they're just lacking that high end playmaker.


Isnt that why we drafted Suggs...


We drafted him because Barnes wasn't available when we picked, Suggs isn't a true PG

Fultz is our PG

well Suggs isnt a true SG either. he is more PG than SG
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 19: Charlotte Hornets (11-8) at Orlando Magic (4-14) - 11/24/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#133 » by Knightro » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:41 pm

tiderulz wrote:well Suggs isnt a true SG either. he is more PG than SG


Suggs is definitely a PG.

He has a point guard brain and a willingness and ability to make the correct reads and the correct passes. His problem is that he's just struggling so badly right now handling the ball.

Anthony has more dynamic ball handling than Suggs, but he has much more of a scoring mentality. He lacks the natural playmaking for others than Suggs appears to possess.

And then you have Fultz who is going to be back at some point too. Who knows how they plan on working him into the mix.

It's a bit of a jumbled mess right now.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 19: Charlotte Hornets (11-8) at Orlando Magic (4-14) - 11/24/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#134 » by ChosenSavior » Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:03 pm

SOUL wrote:Also sorry for being grumpy. Told myself this season I wouldn't argue silly things but it's ingrained in me :lol:


I feel you haha! With the way this team is though, it isn't worth getting into petty arguments with anyone. People are going to dislike who they dislike. Come next year, there will be a new set of players that will be the ire of this board. Sunrise, sunset...

First and foremost, I do want to wish you all a Happy Thanksgiving and Happy Holidays overall wherever you all may reside. You all be safe out there and enjoy time with your loved ones.

I did actually get a chance to watch this game in full while preparing the turkey lol. I thought Suggs played solid actually, just needs the experience in that role on the NBA level to get accustomed to it. He will need to learn how to adjust to NBA speed and physicality. Each game I feel he is figuring it out. Franz had a nice bounce back game. Our front court was decent but when I'm watching the game, I do not like how we switch our bigs out so much when guarding the pick and roll. Of course Bamba is going to look ineffective when he is drawn all the way out of the paint and switched onto perimeter players which was done routinely by the Hornets (nice job on Borrego to attack the mismatch and shame on us for not implementing a better defensive strategy). Our guards have to do a better job staying attached when they get screened.

If I'm being honest, outside of Suggs and Franz, I'm not really emotionally attached to anyone on this roster. However as long as they play for the Magic, I'm gonna root for them as hard as it may be... :lol:
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 19: Charlotte Hornets (11-8) at Orlando Magic (4-14) - 11/24/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#135 » by JTG_92940618 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:02 pm

Bergmaniac wrote:
JTG_92940618 wrote:I've never seen a player like Bamba where the eye test and the stats are so at odds.

One thing is for sure, he's exploitable when it matters.

I don't think there is much of a discrepancy, His stats are mediocre and so is his play most of the time. 11 PPG on a league average efficiency when you are mostly shooting wide open jumpers and you are on a team that gives you plenty of shots due to lack of talent is nothing to write home about. He is getting 9 RPG which is about average for a starting centre who plays 30 MPG. His foul drawing rate is really bad. Only the block average stand out as an impressive stat.


Fair post but just two points; firstly, I was more referring to "advanced", all-in-one stats like BPM, VORP, RAPTOR, and so forth but, like counting stats, these usually have him around league average.

For example, BPM = 0.4. Top 40% of the league
VORP = 0.3. Top 18% of the league (they allow all players to qualify here)
Total RAPTOR = -1.2, 167th, top 66% of the league

The second point is that I don't really see an average player when I watch him but that's probably recency bias if I really think about it. I think people would agree that he started the season better and has gone downhill since (monthly splits bear this out. See below). Maybe if my mind was able to average out his season so far he would be an average-looking player to me.

I suppose the takeaway here is Bamba has been inconsistent.

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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 19: Charlotte Hornets (11-8) at Orlando Magic (4-14) - 11/24/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#136 » by basketballRob » Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:10 am

drsd wrote:
SOUL wrote:Also sorry for being grumpy. Told myself this season I wouldn't argue silly things but it's ingrained in me


Like whether the Magic can win 20 games this season?


..
Apparently we have the second hardest schedule left.

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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 19: Charlotte Hornets (11-8) at Orlando Magic (4-14) - 11/24/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#137 » by Ducklett » Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:17 am

basketballRob wrote:
drsd wrote:
SOUL wrote:Also sorry for being grumpy. Told myself this season I wouldn't argue silly things but it's ingrained in me


Like whether the Magic can win 20 games this season?


..
Apparently we have the second hardest schedule left.

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We are the second worst team in the league, so it makes sense that everyone we play is better than us would make for a hard schedule...
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 19: Charlotte Hornets (11-8) at Orlando Magic (4-14) - 11/24/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#138 » by SOUL » Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:35 am

Ducklett wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
drsd wrote:
Like whether the Magic can win 20 games this season?


..
Apparently we have the second hardest schedule left.

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We are the second worst team in the league, so it makes sense that everyone we play is better than us would make for a hard schedule...


Yeah. Also people read SOS stuff wrong like it's an indicator for the rest of the season. We can play a few top teams in the next few games and that SOS shoots down pretty far. We actually have played a decently hard schedule but haven't played the Bulls/Heat/Warriors a lot yet. We have a Bulls game next game and Warriors soon so it'll shoot down a bit.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 19: Charlotte Hornets (11-8) at Orlando Magic (4-14) - 11/24/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#139 » by drsd » Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:49 am

Knightro wrote:
tiderulz wrote:well Suggs isnt a true SG either. he is more PG than SG


Suggs is definitely a PG.

He has a point guard brain and a willingness and ability to make the correct reads and the correct passes. His problem is that he's just struggling so badly right now handling the ball.

Anthony has more dynamic ball handling than Suggs, but he has much more of a scoring mentality. He lacks the natural playmaking for others than Suggs appears to possess.

And then you have Fultz who is going to be back at some point too. Who knows how they plan on working him into the mix.

It's a bit of a jumbled mess right now.


And-1

I project Suggs to be a bigger version of Jameer Nelson. Suggs is definitely a PG and not a combo-guard.

For me the question is Fultz, not Suggs, moving forward. If Fultz cannot be a SG, then Orlando will need to trade him. There is no other scenario to play out.

..
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 19: Charlotte Hornets (11-8) at Orlando Magic (4-14) - 11/24/21 at 7pm ET 

Post#140 » by pepe1991 » Fri Nov 26, 2021 8:25 am

Suggs makes it harder to himself than it should. Last game he would make 3 dribbles and settle for fadeaway long 2 despite he had his defender already shaken and wobbling with first step and could easly attack rim or go for floater.
Prediction day after Vuc, Gordon, Evan departure - most fans who are celebrating birth of new rebuild will be crying how rebuild is painful before 2022-23 season ends.
Date of writeup: March 26th, 2021.

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