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2021-2022 Regular Season Game 74: Orlando Magic (20-53) at Oklahoma City Thunder (20-52) - 3/23/22 - 8pm ET

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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 74: Orlando Magic (20-53) at Oklahoma City Thunder (20-52) - 3/23/22 - 8pm ET 

Post#101 » by drsd » Thu Mar 24, 2022 5:55 pm

zaymon wrote:
drsd wrote:For me this game reveals the importance of Carter. In the same way the Howard trade led to Vučević; perhaps the Vučević trtade leads to Carter. There is nice balance in that.


WCJ is still underappreciated. His interior defense is solid, 56,7 DFG%. I think that number would be lower if Bamba was not a liability and our guards outside Harris and Suggs were not disaster on defense. He will look even better with competent teammates. He has all star potential.


If the Magic do nothing this off-season, this is the roster on opening night.

Suggs/Anthony
Fultz/Hampton
F-Wagner/Ross
Isaac/Okeke
Carter/M-Wagner

Add a couple rookies, and a couple vets, I am very excited by that team.


..
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 74: Orlando Magic (20-53) at Oklahoma City Thunder (20-52) - 3/23/22 - 8pm ET 

Post#102 » by zaymon » Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:12 pm

drsd wrote:
zaymon wrote:
drsd wrote:For me this game reveals the importance of Carter. In the same way the Howard trade led to Vučević; perhaps the Vučević trtade leads to Carter. There is nice balance in that.


WCJ is still underappreciated. His interior defense is solid, 56,7 DFG%. I think that number would be lower if Bamba was not a liability and our guards outside Harris and Suggs were not disaster on defense. He will look even better with competent teammates. He has all star potential.


If the Magic do nothing this off-season, this is the roster on opening night.

Suggs/Anthony
Fultz/Hampton
F-Wagner/Ross
Isaac/Okeke
Carter/M-Wagner

Add a couple rookies, and a couple vets, I am very excited by that team.


..


I am not convinced Fultz is a future starter. I would rather see Suggs/Harris.
My money is on Banchero going number 1 !
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 74: Orlando Magic (20-53) at Oklahoma City Thunder (20-52) - 3/23/22 - 8pm ET 

Post#103 » by davey_wavy » Thu Mar 24, 2022 6:16 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Magic_Kingdom wrote:
cedric76 wrote:
It s a terrible example to show our players, imagine how they felt when coach played bench players over them so secure a loss

Agree 100%. There's nothing we can do about management sitting players for "injuries", but in-game tanking is embarrassing and pathetic. Franz only played 22 minutes at +20 while Brazdeikis played 23 minutes at -39, Schofield played 23 minutes at -26 and Dowtin played 30 minutes at -22.

So much of sports is psychological. Teams that intentionally lose do not just hit a switch and decide it's ok to start winning now. You have to learn how to win. The Magic are literally learning how to lose.

This is an absolute low point in the history of this franchise. Weltman, Hammond and Mosley should all feel dirty. And when they end up picking 6th like OKC did last year, they will deserve it. Ready to see Weltman's disappointed face on TV at the draft lottery again as the only team-building strategy he is capable of implementing -- luck -- goes down the drain.

they have been losing all year. this one game isnt going to change any mindset they already had


The NBA is a business. Sometimes you need to get your hands dirty in order to push forward
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 74: Orlando Magic (20-53) at Oklahoma City Thunder (20-52) - 3/23/22 - 8pm ET 

Post#104 » by jezzerinho » Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:55 pm

zaymon wrote:
drsd wrote:For me this game reveals the importance of Carter. In the same way the Howard trade led to Vučević; perhaps the Vučević trtade leads to Carter. There is nice balance in that.


WCJ is still underappreciated. His interior defense is solid, 56,7 DFG%. I think that number would be lower if Bamba was not a liability and our guards outside Harris and Suggs were not disaster on defense. He will look even better with competent teammates. He has all star potential.


I don't think Carter Jr really has the playing profile to attract All-star votes, but that doesn't mean that he isn't capable of contributing to a playoff team by providing two-way production at a high level. He's like Horace just pulled up in a DeLorean. Love watching him.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 74: Orlando Magic (20-53) at Oklahoma City Thunder (20-52) - 3/23/22 - 8pm ET 

Post#105 » by jezzerinho » Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:29 pm

Magic_Kingdom wrote:
cedric76 wrote:
thelead wrote:You’ll be fine. I promise. Just pretend the season is already over.


It s a terrible example to show our players, imagine how they felt when coach played bench players over them so secure a loss

Agree 100%. There's nothing we can do about management sitting players for "injuries", but in-game tanking is embarrassing and pathetic. Franz only played 22 minutes at +20 while Brazdeikis played 23 minutes at -39, Schofield played 23 minutes at -26 and Dowtin played 30 minutes at -22.

So much of sports is psychological. Teams that intentionally lose do not just hit a switch and decide it's ok to start winning now. You have to learn how to win. The Magic are literally learning how to lose.

This is an absolute low point in the history of this franchise. Weltman, Hammond and Mosley should all feel dirty. And when they end up picking 6th like OKC did last year, they will deserve it. Ready to see Weltman's disappointed face on TV at the draft lottery again as the only team-building strategy he is capable of implementing -- luck -- goes down the drain.


I fundamentally disagree. Firstly, small market teams have to do something to combat the wave of FA movements of stars, coaches and GMs towards the more lucrative markets. Sure they then rely on the loyalty of the star they hopefully draft, but at least it's taking proper advantage of the NBA system that hopes to equalise the league talent-wise.

Secondly, I agree that winning and losing are habits. But i actually think that the Magic are handling this side of things pretty well. Their starting unit is generally playing hard and to win and they're being allowed to it. The bench is the Tank Division which comes in and lets opponents back in the game. There's a demotivating element to that tactic for the starters but i get the feeling they're being managed well and know what the team has to do.

What i think is very clever is that they're being regularly let off the leash, especially against better teams, where they can go and compete for the win without too much of a tanking brake being applied. I don't believe for a minute that these players are being ruined by the team's necessity to go after a top player.

The sad part is that this year the tank is going to earn a pretty low reward, but it's still a valid exercise.

Next year, with a pretty full roster deck tomchoose from and some tough personnel.decisioms to be made in the backcourt, we'll likely see what the team is really capable of. I don't imagine for one second that the minutes played this season will be a negative influence on how they play in 22/23.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 74: Orlando Magic (20-53) at Oklahoma City Thunder (20-52) - 3/23/22 - 8pm ET 

Post#106 » by jezzerinho » Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:32 pm

zaymon wrote:
drsd wrote:
zaymon wrote:
WCJ is still underappreciated. His interior defense is solid, 56,7 DFG%. I think that number would be lower if Bamba was not a liability and our guards outside Harris and Suggs were not disaster on defense. He will look even better with competent teammates. He has all star potential.


If the Magic do nothing this off-season, this is the roster on opening night.

Suggs/Anthony
Fultz/Hampton
F-Wagner/Ross
Isaac/Okeke
Carter/M-Wagner

Add a couple rookies, and a couple vets, I am very excited by that team.


..


I am not convinced Fultz is a future starter. I would rather see Suggs/Harris.


For Fultz to be worth persisting with, he has to take a major leap forward. The sad part is, the exact same can be said of all our guards. All have glaring deficiencies which make their futures pretty unsure.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 74: Orlando Magic (20-53) at Oklahoma City Thunder (20-52) - 3/23/22 - 8pm ET 

Post#107 » by thelead » Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:35 pm

jezzerinho wrote:
zaymon wrote:
drsd wrote:
If the Magic do nothing this off-season, this is the roster on opening night.

Suggs/Anthony
Fultz/Hampton
F-Wagner/Ross
Isaac/Okeke
Carter/M-Wagner

Add a couple rookies, and a couple vets, I am very excited by that team.


..


I am not convinced Fultz is a future starter. I would rather see Suggs/Harris.


For Fultz to be worth persisting with, he has to take a major leap forward. The sad part is, the exact same can be said of all our guards. All have glaring deficiencies which make their futures pretty unsure.

Which is why I'm not opposed to drafting Ivey if we can. We have ZERO guys that we can pencil in as starters at either guard position for the next 5+ years.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 74: Orlando Magic (20-53) at Oklahoma City Thunder (20-52) - 3/23/22 - 8pm ET 

Post#108 » by jezzerinho » Thu Mar 24, 2022 9:26 pm

Ivey is fool's gold imo. Certainly for the duration of his rookie contract.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 74: Orlando Magic (20-53) at Oklahoma City Thunder (20-52) - 3/23/22 - 8pm ET 

Post#109 » by zaymon » Fri Mar 25, 2022 5:16 am

jezzerinho wrote:Ivey is fool's gold imo. Certainly for the duration of his rookie contract.


People thinking he is Morant are for a rude awakening.
My money is on Banchero going number 1 !
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 74: Orlando Magic (20-53) at Oklahoma City Thunder (20-52) - 3/23/22 - 8pm ET 

Post#110 » by thelead » Fri Mar 25, 2022 5:40 am

zaymon wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:Ivey is fool's gold imo. Certainly for the duration of his rookie contract.


People thinking he is Morant are for a rude awakening.

I think the Morant comps are a bit much but Indiana Pacers Oladipo could be his ceiling... but if we're being honest, there are no easy 'home-runs' in this draft. He could easily be a bench player if things don't work out. But the same can be said about nearly every prospect in every draft. Even Ja had his doubters due to being at a smaller school.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 74: Orlando Magic (20-53) at Oklahoma City Thunder (20-52) - 3/23/22 - 8pm ET 

Post#111 » by pepe1991 » Fri Mar 25, 2022 6:48 am

thelead wrote:
zaymon wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:Ivey is fool's gold imo. Certainly for the duration of his rookie contract.


People thinking he is Morant are for a rude awakening.

I think the Morant comps are a bit much but Indiana Pacers Oladipo could be his ceiling... but if we're being honest, there are no easy 'home-runs' in this draft. He could easily be a bench player if things don't work out. But the same can be said about nearly every prospect in every draft. Even Ja had his doubters due to being at a smaller school.


Given who Memphis plays without Morant, it's also obvious that Morant is amazing talent but in order to have sucess, you have to have elite supporting cast around him.
Jackson, Adams, Bane are playing phenomenal basketball . Last night, no Morant, in 23 min Adams goes for 17 rebounds, 6 assists, 3 blocks, 3 steals. Bane scores 30 in 24 min :lol: with plus minus of +40.


But ofc, it's worth nothing that Memphis never tanked for Morant. They had solid team and had massive leap in draft to get him.


Ivey isn't Morant. He is scoring two guard. Oladipo, Mitchell are some positive comparisons. But in order to be able to be go to scorer, he has to be efficient. I don't see how that will happen on team like Magic where not a single other guard can shoot or score with any efficiency. If Magic draft him, than only logical would be to find trade suitors for guys like Hampton, Cole, Fultz or Suggs.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 74: Orlando Magic (20-53) at Oklahoma City Thunder (20-52) - 3/23/22 - 8pm ET 

Post#112 » by drsd » Fri Mar 25, 2022 7:36 am

zaymon wrote:
drsd wrote:
zaymon wrote:
WCJ is still underappreciated. His interior defense is solid, 56,7 DFG%. I think that number would be lower if Bamba was not a liability and our guards outside Harris and Suggs were not disaster on defense. He will look even better with competent teammates. He has all star potential.


If the Magic do nothing this off-season, this is the roster on opening night.

Suggs/Anthony
Fultz/Hampton
F-Wagner/Ross
Isaac/Okeke
Carter/M-Wagner

Add a couple rookies, and a couple vets, I am very excited by that team.


..


I am not convinced Fultz is a future starter. I would rather see Suggs/Harris.


Sure, but to quote me, "If the Magic do nothing this off-season...".

The "do-nothing" off season would actually look more like:
I think the above is added by taking BPA in the first round (Smith if the Magic get a pick, the Holmgren, then Mathurin - dependent on availability), taking a Euro-stash center in the second round (i.e. Ismael Kamagate) , resign Harris to something like a two year 30M deal, and make a qualifying offer to Bamba and accept whatever happens from that.

Orlando thus becomes:

Suggs/Anthony
Harris/Fultz/Hampton
F-Wagner/Ross
Isaac/Okeke
Carter/M-Wagner

With a rookie and a maybe on Bamba. That's already a potential 13-man roster.


....

I should state: I am not actually in favor of such an off season. I would rather the Magic package their FRP, Anthony, and a SnT Bamba to make a run at Brown.

..
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 74: Orlando Magic (20-53) at Oklahoma City Thunder (20-52) - 3/23/22 - 8pm ET 

Post#113 » by zaymon » Fri Mar 25, 2022 8:28 am

drsd wrote:
zaymon wrote:
drsd wrote:
If the Magic do nothing this off-season, this is the roster on opening night.

Suggs/Anthony
Fultz/Hampton
F-Wagner/Ross
Isaac/Okeke
Carter/M-Wagner

Add a couple rookies, and a couple vets, I am very excited by that team.


..


I am not convinced Fultz is a future starter. I would rather see Suggs/Harris.


Sure, but to quote me, "If the Magic do nothing this off-season...".

The "do-nothing" off season would actually look more like:
I think the above is added by taking BPA in the first round (Smith if the Magic get a pick, the Holmgren, then Mathurin - dependent on availability), taking a Euro-stash center in the second round (i.e. Ismael Kamagate) , resign Harris to something like a two year 30M deal, and make a qualifying offer to Bamba and accept whatever happens from that.

Orlando thus becomes:

Suggs/Anthony
Harris/Fultz/Hampton
F-Wagner/Ross
Isaac/Okeke
Carter/M-Wagner

With a rookie and a maybe on Bamba. That's already a potential 13-man roster.


....

I should state: I am not actually in favor of such an off season. I would rather the Magic package their FRP, Anthony, and a SnT Bamba to make a run at Brown.

..


Brown trade is far from realistic. Especially with the way Boston is playing right now.

A lot depends if we want to be competetive next year. If we do, resigning Harris makes sense becouse Anthony and Hampton are definetly not starter material right now.
Isaac, Carter and Harris are experienced enough to lead the team to some wins. Wagner is a special player he impacts winning even this year. Question is who plays point guard. If Suggs makes a leap we will be very dangerous.
If we want to lose Bamba, Anthony and Hampton should get major minutes, Gary shouldnt be retained.
My money is on Banchero going number 1 !
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 74: Orlando Magic (20-53) at Oklahoma City Thunder (20-52) - 3/23/22 - 8pm ET 

Post#114 » by jezzerinho » Fri Mar 25, 2022 9:58 am

I think Brogdon would be the ideal get for Orl. Won't cost a ton to get him, you put up with the fact he's often banged up and you rotate him in regular season.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 74: Orlando Magic (20-53) at Oklahoma City Thunder (20-52) - 3/23/22 - 8pm ET 

Post#115 » by tiderulz » Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:54 pm

jezzerinho wrote:I think Brogdon would be the ideal get for Orl. Won't cost a ton to get him, you put up with the fact he's often banged up and you rotate him in regular season.

ive thought about him and could be a good mentor for Suggs, both being a bit of a combo guard. Brogdon obviously being a better shooter and Suggs a better defender. would depend on what Indiana would want in return, whether they are ready to turn the keys over to Haliburton
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 74: Orlando Magic (20-53) at Oklahoma City Thunder (20-52) - 3/23/22 - 8pm ET 

Post#116 » by The-Stallion70 » Sat Mar 26, 2022 4:37 pm

I would draft Ivey, he has that extra gear and seems to push himself extremely hard. The guy is an elite athlete by NBA standards and has elite motor.

For the Magic, I would take Ivey because I am not convinced that Banchero, Smith or Holmgren are really better than Wendell or Isaac.

Cole and Markelle are both solid, Suggs is far too mistake prone at this point and tbh i think he projects best as a team's Marcus Smart/Bruce Brown in the defensive role player mold. Tbh i am okay with moving on from Suggs and going with Cole/Markelle as the young backcourt.

I like RJ but I think he is a rung below the other guards in terms of upside.
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This trade wasn't some conspiracy - it was just a GM wanting AD bad enough where in most people's eyes he overpaid by a long shot to get him.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 74: Orlando Magic (20-53) at Oklahoma City Thunder (20-52) - 3/23/22 - 8pm ET 

Post#117 » by Blue_and_Whte » Sun Mar 27, 2022 1:30 am

zaymon wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:Ivey is fool's gold imo. Certainly for the duration of his rookie contract.


People thinking he is Morant are for a rude awakening.

Right because we all knew Wagner would be better than Suggs at this point in their young careers. Nobody knows what these guys turn into but a Morant comp is more than fair for Ivey.
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Re: 2021-2022 Regular Season Game 74: Orlando Magic (20-53) at Oklahoma City Thunder (20-52) - 3/23/22 - 8pm ET 

Post#118 » by zaymon » Sun Mar 27, 2022 9:28 am

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
zaymon wrote:
jezzerinho wrote:Ivey is fool's gold imo. Certainly for the duration of his rookie contract.


People thinking he is Morant are for a rude awakening.

Right because we all knew Wagner would be better than Suggs at this point in their young careers. Nobody knows what these guys turn into but a Morant comp is more than fair for Ivey.


I had Wagner one spot above Suggs at my big board before draft ;)
I mean i see a lot of similarities between Ivey and Morant but one huge difference- decision making.
Ivey will never have Morant innate basketball processing.
Even Morant contribution to winning was questioned at times and thats with his elite decision making. I dont see Ivey as a difference maker at all. Would prefer to draft some forward or legitimate wing at the same spot.
My money is on Banchero going number 1 !

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