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The case for Kristaps Porzingis

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The case for Kristaps Porzingis 

Post#101 » by Blue_and_Whte » Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:33 pm

Skin wrote:
AshBlackstone wrote:
Skin wrote:History as an indicator is criminal. How many black athletic American players have failed in the NBA? Should we use that against players coming up?




The difference between the two is that lots of black athletes also succeed as NBA players. Whereas white Euro bigs whose number one selling point is their athletic ability....NEVER succeed. They're batting .000 or close to it.

Stay classy.

Porzingis has more than just athleticism going for him, but I don't think you'll see it that way because I think your bias on this issue is on a whole other level, AshBlackstone.
You can call it what it is, dude is being a bigot.


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Re: The case for Kristaps Porzingis 

Post#102 » by AshBlackstone » Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:23 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
Skin wrote:
AshBlackstone wrote:


The difference between the two is that lots of black athletes also succeed as NBA players. Whereas white Euro bigs whose number one selling point is their athletic ability....NEVER succeed. They're batting .000 or close to it.

Stay classy.

Porzingis has more than just athleticism going for him, but I don't think you'll see it that way because I think your bias on this issue is on a whole other level, AshBlackstone.
You can call it what it is, dude is being a bigot.


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Bigoted against my own people? This goes beyond just European white bigs. White NBA basketball players whose number one selling point is athletic ability leading up to the draft always fail. Always. They are made out to be better athletes than they really are. This guy is no exception. But let's keep pretending that this time...it's different.
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Re: The case for Kristaps Porzingis 

Post#103 » by Blue_and_Whte » Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:27 pm

AshBlackstone wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:
Skin wrote:Stay classy.

Porzingis has more than just athleticism going for him, but I don't think you'll see it that way because I think your bias on this issue is on a whole other level, AshBlackstone.
You can call it what it is, dude is being a bigot.


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Bigoted against my own people? This goes beyond just European white bigs. White NBA basketball players whose number one selling point is athletic ability leading up to the draft always fail. Always. They are made out to be better athletes than they really are. This guy is no exception. But let's keep pretending that this time...it's different.

Whatever....You dont get a pass just because you're a Euro. If someone kept saying BLACK Euros always fail people would be all up in arms.
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Re: The case for Kristaps Porzingis 

Post#104 » by AshBlackstone » Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:41 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
AshBlackstone wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:You can call it what it is, dude is being a bigot.


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Bigoted against my own people? This goes beyond just European white bigs. White NBA basketball players whose number one selling point is athletic ability leading up to the draft always fail. Always. They are made out to be better athletes than they really are. This guy is no exception. But let's keep pretending that this time...it's different.

Whatever....You dont get a pass just because you're a Euro. If someone kept saying BLACK Euros always fail people would be all up in arms.



I'm not a Euro, I'm white...though with Euro heritage.

It's not even about white Euros. It's about white players in general whose main selling point is athletic ability on draft day. Sorry that you're offended by the truth. But the fact of the matter is, white players who fit into that profile have never been successful...because their athletic ability has always been over sold.

If thinking that a particular type of player from my own race is always overrated...makes me a bigot, so be it. You're entitled to that opinion, no matter how wrong it is.

It's unfortunate that white player who fits this kid's profile has ever been successful in my lifetime. But just because you don't like it, doesn't make it not true.
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Re: The case for Kristaps Porzingis 

Post#105 » by BadMofoPimp » Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:43 pm

I always figured people liked Euro players (white or black) because they are better schooled on the fundamentals and I also thought they were less athletic than American players.
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Re: The case for Kristaps Porzingis 

Post#106 » by AshBlackstone » Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:49 pm

TheTrooper wrote:
AshBlackstone wrote:
Skin wrote:History as an indicator is criminal. How many black athletic American players have failed in the NBA? Should we use that against players coming up?




The difference between the two is that lots of black athletes also succeed as NBA players. Whereas white Euro bigs whose number one selling point is their athletic ability....NEVER succeed. They're batting .000 or close to it.

Who are those white euro bigs whose number one selling point is their athletic ability ?




This is beyond white Euro bigs, and really...you can make this case about white players in general whose main selling point is their extreme athletic ability being over sold to the general public.

I'm looking at you Meyers Leonard and Jan Vesely.
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Re: The case for Kristaps Porzingis 

Post#107 » by AshBlackstone » Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:00 pm

Truth24 wrote:
AshBlackstone wrote:
InFlames wrote:
I've seen him everywhere from 7th to late lotto. I definitely dont see us taking him over Johnson/Okafor/Mudiay/Russell/Towns.



Stanley Johnson is a scrub. The other 4 I agree on.


Stanley Johnson is the farthest thing from a scrub and is the number 1 wing in this draft.



His ceiling is that of a #3 option. We already have that on our roster at that position. No thanks.
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Re: The case for Kristaps Porzingis 

Post#108 » by Skin » Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:28 pm

AshBlackstone wrote:
TheTrooper wrote:
AshBlackstone wrote:


The difference between the two is that lots of black athletes also succeed as NBA players. Whereas white Euro bigs whose number one selling point is their athletic ability....NEVER succeed. They're batting .000 or close to it.

Who are those white euro bigs whose number one selling point is their athletic ability ?




This is beyond white Euro bigs, and really...you can make this case about white players in general whose main selling point is their extreme athletic ability being over sold to the general public.

I'm looking at you Meyers Leonard and Jan Vesely.

I'm not sure why you're choosing to harp on athleticism being the one and only thing Porzingis is being touted for. It's nothing like that. He's not the white version of Dwight Howard. Porzingis has a rare and legit combination of basketball skills and size. He's a 7 footer who can dribble drive. He has shooting range that extends to the 3 point line. He has soft touch around the basket and can go with either hand. step-back, pull-up jumper, catch and shoot, fadeaway, turnaround jumper on post... the coordination is there for him to have these things in his arsenal. This isn't just an athlete. If he were, he would be exploding all over the place and have better rebound and shot block numbers.

I find it interesting that you can name Meyers Leonard and Jan Vesely who are as different from him as Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, Dirk Nowitzki, Rudy Gobert, Jonas Valanciunas, Jusuf Nurkic, Nikola Mirotic, Ersan Ilyasova, Donatas Motiejunas, Nikola Pekovic, Omer Asik or our own Vucevic are... I haven't even touched historically successful Euros. But I know why you keep harping on him only being "an athletic white Euro"... because if you actually starting considering his skills, then it would open up comparisons to many other successful white Euro basketball players. Let's call it what it is. :wink:
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Re: The case for Kristaps Porzingis 

Post#109 » by InFlames » Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:37 pm

AshBlackstone wrote:
TheTrooper wrote:
AshBlackstone wrote:


The difference between the two is that lots of black athletes also succeed as NBA players. Whereas white Euro bigs whose number one selling point is their athletic ability....NEVER succeed. They're batting .000 or close to it.

Who are those white euro bigs whose number one selling point is their athletic ability ?




This is beyond white Euro bigs, and really...you can make this case about white players in general whose main selling point is their extreme athletic ability being over sold to the general public.

I'm looking at you Meyers Leonard and Jan Vesely.


Porzingis actually has basketball skill though, its not just about his athleticism. He is a good ball-handler, a good shooter who can shoot in a variety of ways, and a good shot blocker and help defender. Vesely has no actual basketball skill and isn't a good comparison.
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Re: The case for Kristaps Porzingis 

Post#110 » by TheTrooper » Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:46 pm

AshBlackstone wrote:
TheTrooper wrote:
AshBlackstone wrote:


The difference between the two is that lots of black athletes also succeed as NBA players. Whereas white Euro bigs whose number one selling point is their athletic ability....NEVER succeed. They're batting .000 or close to it.

Who are those white euro bigs whose number one selling point is their athletic ability ?




This is beyond white Euro bigs, and really...you can make this case about white players in general whose main selling point is their extreme athletic ability being over sold to the general public.

I'm looking at you Meyers Leonard and Jan Vesely.

Well the thing is they are athletic and good athletes but that is it.They are even compared to black players pretty good athletes, that is not exaggerated.
I'm not that familiar with Leonard, but I can tell you Vesely is just athletic and......well just athletic. I have seen games where he had something like 1/10 free throws and similar fg %.

Yes I would agree to some part . Whites, unlike blacks, who are very athletic are only few and because of that they attract more attention and that helps them a lot when being drafted. Which is normal .The fan base is mostly white and they are I guess glad to see a white man who is athletically competitive with most blacks which generates a lot of hype for them and people often overlook everything else about them cos of that ,for whites, exceptional athleticism.


Speaking of Porzingis he is not really that athletic and his athleticism is not his main selling point. Yeah....for a guy who is almost 7ft he is really mobile, solid leaper and has solid quickness, but he is not an athletic monster and that is certainly not his main selling point.
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Re: The case for Kristaps Porzingis 

Post#111 » by AshBlackstone » Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:53 pm

InFlames wrote:
AshBlackstone wrote:
TheTrooper wrote:Who are those white euro bigs whose number one selling point is their athletic ability ?




This is beyond white Euro bigs, and really...you can make this case about white players in general whose main selling point is their extreme athletic ability being over sold to the general public.

I'm looking at you Meyers Leonard and Jan Vesely.


Porzingis actually has basketball skill though, its not just about his athleticism. He is a good ball-handler, a good shooter who can shoot in a variety of ways, and a good shot blocker and help defender. Vesely has no actual basketball skill and isn't a good comparison.



You say that he's not good at basketball, but you pretty much just read Vesely's pre-draft scouting report to me...verbatim. The similarities to pre-draft Vesely are real.
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Re: The case for Kristaps Porzingis 

Post#112 » by InFlames » Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:54 pm

AshBlackstone wrote:
InFlames wrote:
AshBlackstone wrote:


This is beyond white Euro bigs, and really...you can make this case about white players in general whose main selling point is their extreme athletic ability being over sold to the general public.

I'm looking at you Meyers Leonard and Jan Vesely.


Porzingis actually has basketball skill though, its not just about his athleticism. He is a good ball-handler, a good shooter who can shoot in a variety of ways, and a good shot blocker and help defender. Vesely has no actual basketball skill and isn't a good comparison.



You say that he's not good at basketball, but you pretty much just read Vesely's pre-draft scouting report to me...verbatim. The similarities to pre-draft Vesely are real.


Ok
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Re: The case for Kristaps Porzingis 

Post#113 » by AshBlackstone » Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:56 pm

Skin wrote:
AshBlackstone wrote:
TheTrooper wrote:Who are those white euro bigs whose number one selling point is their athletic ability ?




This is beyond white Euro bigs, and really...you can make this case about white players in general whose main selling point is their extreme athletic ability being over sold to the general public.

I'm looking at you Meyers Leonard and Jan Vesely.

I'm not sure why you're choosing to harp on athleticism being the one and only thing Porzingis is being touted for. It's nothing like that. He's not the white version of Dwight Howard. Porzingis has a rare and legit combination of basketball skills and size. He's a 7 footer who can dribble drive. He has shooting range that extends to the 3 point line. He has soft touch around the basket and can go with either hand. step-back, pull-up jumper, catch and shoot, fadeaway, turnaround jumper on post... the coordination is there for him to have these things in his arsenal. This isn't just an athlete. If he were, he would be exploding all over the place and have better rebound and shot block numbers.

I find it interesting that you can name Meyers Leonard and Jan Vesely who are as different from him as Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, Dirk Nowitzki, Rudy Gobert, Jonas Valanciunas, Jusuf Nurkic, Nikola Mirotic, Ersan Ilyasova, Donatas Motiejunas, Nikola Pekovic, Omer Asik or our own Vucevic are... I haven't even touched historically successful Euros. But I know why you keep harping on him only being "an athletic white Euro"... because if you actually starting considering his skills, then it would open up comparisons to many other successful white Euro basketball players. Let's call it what it is. :wink:





No, the main selling point is in fact his athletic ability. Because that's what the scouting report harps on. Yes, he's been touted to have the same alleged skillset as your standard Euro-bigs...but more athletic. The emphasis is clearly about him using his quickness and athleticism to do things other Euro-bigs can't..which is protect the rim.

And the comparison to Vesely is extremely valid. Go back and read Vesely's pre-draft scouting report.

And by the way, half of the Euros you just listed...are NOT what you want from a top 5 pick. Why are you even mentioning Gobert, Nurkic, Mirotic, Ilyasova, Motiejunas, or Asik? If this guy goes in the top 5, and turns out to be any of those players right now...he would be an epic disappointment.
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Re: The case for Kristaps Porzingis 

Post#114 » by InFlames » Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:59 pm

Here are some quotes about Jan Vesely pre draft

"He was not terribly effective as a jump-shooter, though, garnering .78 points per shot he attempted, 5th worst in this group—almost all of which in catch and shoot situations."

On the other hand, Vesely's athleticism shines through with the way he was able to convert opportunities around the basket, shooting 74% from the field in these situations, first in this group."

- Draft Express

"Weaknesses: Vesely needs to continue improving his offensive skills. He's still a work in progress as a player as his athleticism and "wow plays" exceed his effectiveness and consistency ... He has had a decent season but more was expected from him coming into the year ... He is limited to one or two dribbles when creating off the dribble and needs to improve his 1-on-1 game and ball-handling skills ... Has to become more efficient/consistent shooter overall (50% FG, 46% FT, 46.3% 3FG in Euroleague and 74.1 % FG, 51% FT, 31.8% 3FG in NLB League) ... Hasn't added any weight since last year and will have to get stronger in order to compete in the NBA; still has trouble finishing plays under pressure ... Has strength and athleticism but not productive enough as a rebounder (4.4 rpg in NLB League and only 2.9 rpg in Euroleague) ... Could run into some problems fitting into an NBA position as his length slows him some on the perimeter in the half court set and he lacks the strength and toughness to play in the paint right now ..."

- Nbadraft.net


Fine me one site where anyone said anything good about Vesely's shooting ability or offense in general. Best I've seen is that he is good at getting to the free throw line and cutting.

Here is Porzingis from nbadraft.net

"Strengths: As a legit 7 footer he has perfect height for the role, combined with long arms and big hands ... Despite the size he prefers to play as a small forward, showing amazing body control, coordination and ball handling skills ... Porzignis excels in transition situations, where he can use his speed, fluidity and athleticism to outrun defenders ... During the past season he has improved his off the ball game, exploiting cuts and backdoors to get the rim ... He’s a solid shooter, with range also from three point, showing a remarkable confidence and variety of solutions: step-back, pull-up jumper, catch and shoot are all part of his repertoire ... On the defensive side he’s really effective as a weak side defender, with his quickness and athleticism he can cover a lot of space in a few steps to alter or block shots ... Furthermore his lateral mobility makes him a solid P&R defender, a key skill for a big man, especially at NBA level ... His footwork also allows him to switch onto the guards forcing them to take difficult shots ... Born in August of 1995 making him one of the youngest players in the draft ..."

You think that is similar at all to Vesely?
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Re: The case for Kristaps Porzingis 

Post#115 » by AshBlackstone » Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:13 pm

InFlames wrote:Here are some quotes about Jan Vesely pre draft

"He was not terribly effective as a jump-shooter, though, garnering .78 points per shot he attempted, 5th worst in this group—almost all of which in catch and shoot situations."

On the other hand, Vesely's athleticism shines through with the way he was able to convert opportunities around the basket, shooting 74% from the field in these situations, first in this group."

- Draft Express

"Weaknesses: Vesely needs to continue improving his offensive skills. He's still a work in progress as a player as his athleticism and "wow plays" exceed his effectiveness and consistency ... He has had a decent season but more was expected from him coming into the year ... He is limited to one or two dribbles when creating off the dribble and needs to improve his 1-on-1 game and ball-handling skills ... Has to become more efficient/consistent shooter overall (50% FG, 46% FT, 46.3% 3FG in Euroleague and 74.1 % FG, 51% FT, 31.8% 3FG in NLB League) ... Hasn't added any weight since last year and will have to get stronger in order to compete in the NBA; still has trouble finishing plays under pressure ... Has strength and athleticism but not productive enough as a rebounder (4.4 rpg in NLB League and only 2.9 rpg in Euroleague) ... Could run into some problems fitting into an NBA position as his length slows him some on the perimeter in the half court set and he lacks the strength and toughness to play in the paint right now ..."

- Nbadraft.net


Fine me one site where anyone said anything good about Vesely's shooting ability or offense in general. Best I've seen is that he is good at getting to the free throw line and cutting.

Here is Porzingis from nbadraft.net

"Strengths: As a legit 7 footer he has perfect height for the role, combined with long arms and big hands ... Despite the size he prefers to play as a small forward, showing amazing body control, coordination and ball handling skills ... Porzignis excels in transition situations, where he can use his speed, fluidity and athleticism to outrun defenders ... During the past season he has improved his off the ball game, exploiting cuts and backdoors to get the rim ... He’s a solid shooter, with range also from three point, showing a remarkable confidence and variety of solutions: step-back, pull-up jumper, catch and shoot are all part of his repertoire ... On the defensive side he’s really effective as a weak side defender, with his quickness and athleticism he can cover a lot of space in a few steps to alter or block shots ... Furthermore his lateral mobility makes him a solid P&R defender, a key skill for a big man, especially at NBA level ... His footwork also allows him to switch onto the guards forcing them to take difficult shots ... Born in August of 1995 making him one of the youngest players in the draft ..."

You think that is similar at all to Vesely?





What those two scouting reports basically say, is that Porzingis is a better shooting Jan Vesely. Both are "extremely athletic" for Euros and long. Both excel in transition. Both can guard multiple positions. Both excel on cuts to the basket Both aren't big enough physically to bang in the NBA. All of this..."allegedly" of course.

Yeah, they're pretty similar. Aside from the difference in shooting, these two scouting reports say the same thing...but worded differently.
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Re: The case for Kristaps Porzingis 

Post#116 » by InFlames » Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:22 pm

AshBlackstone wrote:
InFlames wrote:Here are some quotes about Jan Vesely pre draft

"He was not terribly effective as a jump-shooter, though, garnering .78 points per shot he attempted, 5th worst in this group—almost all of which in catch and shoot situations."

On the other hand, Vesely's athleticism shines through with the way he was able to convert opportunities around the basket, shooting 74% from the field in these situations, first in this group."

- Draft Express

"Weaknesses: Vesely needs to continue improving his offensive skills. He's still a work in progress as a player as his athleticism and "wow plays" exceed his effectiveness and consistency ... He has had a decent season but more was expected from him coming into the year ... He is limited to one or two dribbles when creating off the dribble and needs to improve his 1-on-1 game and ball-handling skills ... Has to become more efficient/consistent shooter overall (50% FG, 46% FT, 46.3% 3FG in Euroleague and 74.1 % FG, 51% FT, 31.8% 3FG in NLB League) ... Hasn't added any weight since last year and will have to get stronger in order to compete in the NBA; still has trouble finishing plays under pressure ... Has strength and athleticism but not productive enough as a rebounder (4.4 rpg in NLB League and only 2.9 rpg in Euroleague) ... Could run into some problems fitting into an NBA position as his length slows him some on the perimeter in the half court set and he lacks the strength and toughness to play in the paint right now ..."

- Nbadraft.net


Fine me one site where anyone said anything good about Vesely's shooting ability or offense in general. Best I've seen is that he is good at getting to the free throw line and cutting.

Here is Porzingis from nbadraft.net

"Strengths: As a legit 7 footer he has perfect height for the role, combined with long arms and big hands ... Despite the size he prefers to play as a small forward, showing amazing body control, coordination and ball handling skills ... Porzignis excels in transition situations, where he can use his speed, fluidity and athleticism to outrun defenders ... During the past season he has improved his off the ball game, exploiting cuts and backdoors to get the rim ... He’s a solid shooter, with range also from three point, showing a remarkable confidence and variety of solutions: step-back, pull-up jumper, catch and shoot are all part of his repertoire ... On the defensive side he’s really effective as a weak side defender, with his quickness and athleticism he can cover a lot of space in a few steps to alter or block shots ... Furthermore his lateral mobility makes him a solid P&R defender, a key skill for a big man, especially at NBA level ... His footwork also allows him to switch onto the guards forcing them to take difficult shots ... Born in August of 1995 making him one of the youngest players in the draft ..."

You think that is similar at all to Vesely?





What those two scouting reports basically say, is that Porzingis is a better shooting Jan Vesely. Both are "extremely athletic" for Euros and long. Both excel in transition. Both can guard multiple positions. Both excel on cuts to the basket Both aren't big enough physically to bang in the NBA. All of this..."allegedly" of course.

Yeah, they're pretty similar. Aside from the difference in shooting, these two scouting reports say the same thing...but worded differently.


Hey man I agree, if you take away the two biggest differences (shooting and ball-handling) they are pretty similar! Almost verbatim like you said.
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Re: The case for Kristaps Porzingis 

Post#117 » by Skin » Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:37 pm

AshBlackstone wrote:
Skin wrote:
AshBlackstone wrote:


This is beyond white Euro bigs, and really...you can make this case about white players in general whose main selling point is their extreme athletic ability being over sold to the general public.

I'm looking at you Meyers Leonard and Jan Vesely.

I'm not sure why you're choosing to harp on athleticism being the one and only thing Porzingis is being touted for. It's nothing like that. He's not the white version of Dwight Howard. Porzingis has a rare and legit combination of basketball skills and size. He's a 7 footer who can dribble drive. He has shooting range that extends to the 3 point line. He has soft touch around the basket and can go with either hand. step-back, pull-up jumper, catch and shoot, fadeaway, turnaround jumper on post... the coordination is there for him to have these things in his arsenal. This isn't just an athlete. If he were, he would be exploding all over the place and have better rebound and shot block numbers.

I find it interesting that you can name Meyers Leonard and Jan Vesely who are as different from him as Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, Dirk Nowitzki, Rudy Gobert, Jonas Valanciunas, Jusuf Nurkic, Nikola Mirotic, Ersan Ilyasova, Donatas Motiejunas, Nikola Pekovic, Omer Asik or our own Vucevic are... I haven't even touched historically successful Euros. But I know why you keep harping on him only being "an athletic white Euro"... because if you actually starting considering his skills, then it would open up comparisons to many other successful white Euro basketball players. Let's call it what it is. :wink:





No, the main selling point is in fact his athletic ability. Because that's what the scouting report harps on. Yes, he's been touted to have the same alleged skillset as your standard Euro-bigs...but more athletic. The emphasis is clearly about him using his quickness and athleticism to do things other Euro-bigs can't..which is protect the rim.

And the comparison to Vesely is extremely valid. Go back and read Vesely's pre-draft scouting report.

And by the way, half of the Euros you just listed...are NOT what you want from a top 5 pick. Why are you even mentioning Gobert, Nurkic, Mirotic, Ilyasova, Motiejunas, or Asik? If this guy goes in the top 5, and turns out to be any of those players right now...he would be an epic disappointment.

Where did I say that's what you want out of a Top 5 pick? Swerve! You can try to change the topic by completely missing the point, but it doesn't help your case. The point was to counter your comparisons of Porzingis to Leonard/Vesely (2 underwhelming Euros who have nothing in common with him). I can easily name other Euros who have nothing in common with him who aren't total busts.

Comparing any two players and eliminating the comparison of shooting skill is a lazy argument full of fault.
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The case for Kristaps Porzingis 

Post#118 » by tooler » Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:39 pm

FWIW, I expect Rob and our scouts to be able to see through the hype if he's not actually that great in workouts.
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Re: The case for Kristaps Porzingis 

Post#119 » by AshBlackstone » Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:43 pm

Skin wrote:
AshBlackstone wrote:
Skin wrote:I'm not sure why you're choosing to harp on athleticism being the one and only thing Porzingis is being touted for. It's nothing like that. He's not the white version of Dwight Howard. Porzingis has a rare and legit combination of basketball skills and size. He's a 7 footer who can dribble drive. He has shooting range that extends to the 3 point line. He has soft touch around the basket and can go with either hand. step-back, pull-up jumper, catch and shoot, fadeaway, turnaround jumper on post... the coordination is there for him to have these things in his arsenal. This isn't just an athlete. If he were, he would be exploding all over the place and have better rebound and shot block numbers.

I find it interesting that you can name Meyers Leonard and Jan Vesely who are as different from him as Marc Gasol, Pau Gasol, Dirk Nowitzki, Rudy Gobert, Jonas Valanciunas, Jusuf Nurkic, Nikola Mirotic, Ersan Ilyasova, Donatas Motiejunas, Nikola Pekovic, Omer Asik or our own Vucevic are... I haven't even touched historically successful Euros. But I know why you keep harping on him only being "an athletic white Euro"... because if you actually starting considering his skills, then it would open up comparisons to many other successful white Euro basketball players. Let's call it what it is. :wink:





No, the main selling point is in fact his athletic ability. Because that's what the scouting report harps on. Yes, he's been touted to have the same alleged skillset as your standard Euro-bigs...but more athletic. The emphasis is clearly about him using his quickness and athleticism to do things other Euro-bigs can't..which is protect the rim.

And the comparison to Vesely is extremely valid. Go back and read Vesely's pre-draft scouting report.

And by the way, half of the Euros you just listed...are NOT what you want from a top 5 pick. Why are you even mentioning Gobert, Nurkic, Mirotic, Ilyasova, Motiejunas, or Asik? If this guy goes in the top 5, and turns out to be any of those players right now...he would be an epic disappointment.

Where did I say that's what you want out of a Top 5 pick? Swerve! You can try to change the topic by completely missing the point, but it doesn't help your case. The point was to counter your comparisons of Porzingis to Leonard/Vesely (2 underwhelming Euros who have nothing in common with him). I can easily name other Euros who have nothing in common with him who aren't total busts.

Comparing any two players and eliminating the comparison of shooting skill is a lazy argument full of fault.




And to be fair, Vesely actually shot fairly well from 3 point range prior to coming over. 46 percent in one league? That's pretty freaking good.

So really, the only clear advantage this guy has shown...is ball handling.

I'm not missing the point. This guy is projected top 5, and you're bringing up unsuccessful Euro players to try and somehow enhance your argument.
AshBlackstone
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Re: The case for Kristaps Porzingis 

Post#120 » by AshBlackstone » Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:44 pm

InFlames wrote:
AshBlackstone wrote:
InFlames wrote:Here are some quotes about Jan Vesely pre draft

"He was not terribly effective as a jump-shooter, though, garnering .78 points per shot he attempted, 5th worst in this group—almost all of which in catch and shoot situations."

On the other hand, Vesely's athleticism shines through with the way he was able to convert opportunities around the basket, shooting 74% from the field in these situations, first in this group."

- Draft Express

"Weaknesses: Vesely needs to continue improving his offensive skills. He's still a work in progress as a player as his athleticism and "wow plays" exceed his effectiveness and consistency ... He has had a decent season but more was expected from him coming into the year ... He is limited to one or two dribbles when creating off the dribble and needs to improve his 1-on-1 game and ball-handling skills ... Has to become more efficient/consistent shooter overall (50% FG, 46% FT, 46.3% 3FG in Euroleague and 74.1 % FG, 51% FT, 31.8% 3FG in NLB League) ... Hasn't added any weight since last year and will have to get stronger in order to compete in the NBA; still has trouble finishing plays under pressure ... Has strength and athleticism but not productive enough as a rebounder (4.4 rpg in NLB League and only 2.9 rpg in Euroleague) ... Could run into some problems fitting into an NBA position as his length slows him some on the perimeter in the half court set and he lacks the strength and toughness to play in the paint right now ..."

- Nbadraft.net


Fine me one site where anyone said anything good about Vesely's shooting ability or offense in general. Best I've seen is that he is good at getting to the free throw line and cutting.

Here is Porzingis from nbadraft.net

"Strengths: As a legit 7 footer he has perfect height for the role, combined with long arms and big hands ... Despite the size he prefers to play as a small forward, showing amazing body control, coordination and ball handling skills ... Porzignis excels in transition situations, where he can use his speed, fluidity and athleticism to outrun defenders ... During the past season he has improved his off the ball game, exploiting cuts and backdoors to get the rim ... He’s a solid shooter, with range also from three point, showing a remarkable confidence and variety of solutions: step-back, pull-up jumper, catch and shoot are all part of his repertoire ... On the defensive side he’s really effective as a weak side defender, with his quickness and athleticism he can cover a lot of space in a few steps to alter or block shots ... Furthermore his lateral mobility makes him a solid P&R defender, a key skill for a big man, especially at NBA level ... His footwork also allows him to switch onto the guards forcing them to take difficult shots ... Born in August of 1995 making him one of the youngest players in the draft ..."

You think that is similar at all to Vesely?





What those two scouting reports basically say, is that Porzingis is a better shooting Jan Vesely. Both are "extremely athletic" for Euros and long. Both excel in transition. Both can guard multiple positions. Both excel on cuts to the basket Both aren't big enough physically to bang in the NBA. All of this..."allegedly" of course.

Yeah, they're pretty similar. Aside from the difference in shooting, these two scouting reports say the same thing...but worded differently.


Hey man I agree, if you take away the two biggest differences (shooting and ball-handling) they are pretty similar! Almost verbatim like you said.




And based on the 3 point shooting numbers, the shooting really isn't a huge difference. Vesely shot 46 percent in one league from 3 point range, per your stats.

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