The Official Franz Wagner Thread

[Optimus_Steel]

I see a lot of Shane Battier in Wagner and i like that!
Also, for me as a german Its Great to have a german (maybe two) on this Team

That was my thought as well, Shane Battier glue guy type, which would be fantastic at #8.

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[drsd]

they showed pictures during the draft. said he put on 20 lbs of muscle during covid. i dont know, but working with college weight program at 18 likely did help

This reminded me of the Davis' flex photo that "shows" all that mass.


And then I found this. He's really keeping with it!

[drsd]

After we got Suggs at 5, there was no way we were taking another guard at 8.

For me this is actually why I am happy the Magic did not draft Moody. Wagner is the better fit. And the Magic is guarded out now.
(It's also why keeping #33 made no sense; Orlando must develop Suggs).

[drsd]

Depending on how the front office viewed Moody (can he play the 3, or is he just a 2), this pick IMO came down to Wagner/Williams.

If this is correct, the Magic did drat BPA at #8.


..

[Knightro]

We'll never know for sure, but at this point I believe if Suggs had gone to Toronto at 4, the Magic were going to take Barnes at 5 and then follow that up with someone not named Franz Wagner at 8.

I think it would have been Ziaire Williams most likely.

[thelead]

We'll never know for sure, but at this point I believe if Suggs had gone to Toronto at 4, the Magic were going to take Barnes at 5 and then follow that up with someone not named Franz Wagner at 8.

I think it would have been Ziaire Williams most likely.

Talk about going the complete opposite direction based on what a team in front of us does.

I really hope Franz pans out. We have no one like him. I see the Chuma comparisons but Franz is much bigger.

[D J C]

Love Franz and this pick for the franchise. Doesn't have that superstar potential, but has a very good chance at being a top 7 rotation player and I like his odds to become and elite role player. Might even get to the level of an old Magic favorite, Hedo, but with much better defense.

A few numbers that are very promising for him:

83.5% FT - very promising for his growth a shooter, especially in a complimentary role

17.4 AST % on a 2.3 AST/TO ratio - has shown the potential to be one of the better 6'10" passers in the league

40.6% 3PT on 3.8 3PA/G in 17 games in conference play - has shown the ability to hit the 3 at a high rate in a decent sample size against good competition

His advanced metrics are outstanding for a sophomore as well.. 5th in the nation in BPM, 3rd in the nation in DBPM
1st in B10 in defensive win shares and 4th in B10 in total win shares..

All of this on a top 5 team in the country. He's the type of player any team can use. All of this while still under 20 y/o, younger than Mobley, Suggs, Barnes, Ziaire, etc and only a month older than Cade.

So for the people getting down on his 'potential'.. don't, because he still has plenty of it. Maybe not the potential to be a top 10 player, but the potential to be a true impact player is sky high.

[cedric76]

i wanted Moody so bad but Wagner wasnt too far behind

[Skin]

just for fun, here is a draft pic of everyone taking a group photo, if you're curious about everyones height. Cade is measured at 6' 8" def looks atleast 2 inches shorter then Franz. Mosley looking like a beast

The thing that concerns me most about Wagner is that, based on this photo, he has no legs!

[dsg2021]

Love Franz and this pick for the franchise. Doesn't have that superstar potential, but has a very good chance at being a top 7 rotation player and I like his odds to become and elite role player. Might even get to the level of an old Magic favorite, Hedo, but with much better defense.

A few numbers that are very promising for him:

83.5% FT - very promising for his growth a shooter, especially in a complimentary role

17.4 AST % on a 2.3 AST/TO ratio - has shown the potential to be one of the better 6'10" passers in the league

40.6% 3PT on 3.8 3PA/G in 17 games in conference play - has shown the ability to hit the 3 at a high rate in a decent sample size against good competition

His advanced metrics are outstanding for a sophomore as well.. 5th in the nation in BPM, 3rd in the nation in DBPM
1st in B10 in defensive win shares and 4th in B10 in total win shares..

All of this on a top 5 team in the country. He's the type of player any team can use. All of this while still under 20 y/o, younger than Mobley, Suggs, Barnes, Ziaire, etc and only a month older than Cade.

So for the people getting down on his 'potential'.. don't, because he still has plenty of it. Maybe not the potential to be a top 10 player, but the potential to be a true impact player is sky high.

Really well said!

[Just Plain Mark]

I didn't watch much of Wagner but I did watch a lot of Barnes because I'm an FSU alum. My concerns about Barnes weren't just his efficiency numbers from 3 and the FT line, but his mindset. He doesn't want to take jumpers off the PnR, or standing still, and that significantly impacts his offensive creativity and effectiveness. Maybe he'll fix his form and maybe that improved form will lead to an improved offensive mindset, but I think presenting Barnes' issue as just a shooting mechanics flaw is inaccurate.

I was also surprised at how well Wagner ran the pick and roll. Does anyone have numbers that compare the volume and effectiveness of Wagner and Barnes in pick and roll situations?

[Nyce_1]

for a comparison, how this:

Otto Porter Jr?

[zaymon]

I didn't watch much of Wagner but I did watch a lot of Barnes because I'm an FSU alum. My concerns about Barnes weren't just his efficiency numbers from 3 and the FT line, but his mindset. He doesn't want to take jumpers off the PnR, or standing still, and that significantly impacts his offensive creativity and effectiveness. Maybe he'll fix his form and maybe that improved form will lead to an improved offensive mindset, but I think presenting Barnes' issue as just a shooting mechanics flaw is inaccurate.

I was also surprised at how well Wagner ran the pick and roll. Does anyone have numbers that compare the volume and effectiveness of Wagner and Barnes in pick and roll situations?

If i remember correctly Barnes was in 47th percentile while Wagner was in 73th as a pick and roll ball handler.
Like i said few days ago, to me Wagner belonged in the Barnes vs Kuminga conversation. So glad we eventually picked "my guy"

[Knightro]

for a comparison, how this:

Otto Porter Jr?

Not bad.

Maybe some Portland era Nic Batum in there with more defense?

[yoyojw17]

I CAN'T WAIT.... AUGUST 8th can't come fast enough!

Suggs, Wagner, Anthony, Okeke and Hampton on full display would make one of the most interesting summers for a looooooong time!!!

GO MAGIC!!!

[UCFJayBird]

It basically comes down to this: Can he develop into a legitimate, consistent, 3 point threat? If the answer is yes, great pick. his defense is solid, he's good at cutting to the basket, and if he can hit the long ball and spread the floor he'll be a valuable addition.

If he doesn't develop that shot, it will have been an overreach and he should've gone in the middle of the round. Time will tell. But it's kind of telling that he has to develop his shot to be worthy of that pick (IMO). That means unless he just blows everyone away in development and turns into a Dirk or something, we're all going to, at best, say he was a good pick at #8 (not great, not a steal, etc, just good).

well, he just shot 34% on 3.5 attempts, raising up from 31% the year before. so he has already shown improvement. 34% walking into the league isnt a sniper, but it isnt bad. repetition should increase that

I dont know how much work there really needs to be on the 3 ball. I mean FT shooting is there and he shot 40% on 3.6 attempts per game for that 22 game stretch.

I mean if he is a consistent 40% shooter than it's going to be a great find for us. But that's a big if. I mean just look at Terrence Ross. he shot 37% his last season in college, and he hasn't cracked 40% in the NBA once (though has come close a few times). Ross is a streaky shooter, and when he gets hot look out, but even someone known for their shooting struggles to get into the upper 30s over the course of a season.

a) The NBA three is not the same as NCAA. It might just be another foot and a half, and it's becoming less of an issue for players, but it's still an adjustment.

b) The rigors of the NBA are just different than college. We've seen great shooters in college fade in the NBA, and Wagner was a good shooter, but not great.

c) 22 games is too small a sample size IMO. I'll go with the 35% he shot for the season, which is good, not great.

If he shoots close to 40% from three he'll be a great additional to the squad.

[thelead]

I CAN'T WAIT.... AUGUST 8th can't come fast enough!

Suggs, Wagner, Anthony, Okeke and Hampton on full display would make one of the most interesting summers for a looooooong time!!!

GO MAGIC!!!

That's like half of our regular season team

[Nyce_1]

for a comparison, how this:

Otto Porter Jr?

Not bad.

Maybe some Portland era Nic Batum in there with more defense?

ohhh Portland Batum is a good one.

[The Effect]

Weird how so many people loved Barnes but hate Wagner, even though they are the same type of player
big facilitators with elite defense that can play multiple spots
Difference is Barnes is more athletic whereas Wagner can actually shoot

And in the head to head matchup in the tourney, barnes was a complete nonfactor against Wagner

Wagner wasnt my choice, but after getting Suggs, we almost had to go wing, and Wagner was the fit Weham like. I personally thought the Ziaire hype was real and they would take him, but personally was hoping we found a way to get Jalen Johnson as that wing, but i get why they took Wagner, and hey, atleast he can shoot better than most the guys in this draft. People keeps harping on his 3pt, but hes a SF and is 6'10 (ive seen 6'9 and up to 6'11 so ill average it) who shot 34%, what more do people want?




And as for comparisons, the one that makes the most sense to me is a poor mans Lamar Odem. Not quite as athletic, but very similar size and skill set

[GelbeWand09]

well, he just shot 34% on 3.5 attempts, raising up from 31% the year before. so he has already shown improvement. 34% walking into the league isnt a sniper, but it isnt bad. repetition should increase that

I dont know how much work there really needs to be on the 3 ball. I mean FT shooting is there and he shot 40% on 3.6 attempts per game for that 22 game stretch.

I mean if he is a consistent 40% shooter than it's going to be a great find for us. But that's a big if. I mean just look at Terrence Ross. he shot 37% his last season in college, and he hasn't cracked 40% in the NBA once (though has come close a few times). Ross is a streaky shooter, and when he gets hot look out, but even someone known for their shooting struggles to get into the upper 30s over the course of a season.

a) The NBA three is not the same as NCAA. It might just be another foot and a half, and it's becoming less of an issue for players, but it's still an adjustment.

b) The rigors of the NBA are just different than college. We've seen great shooters in college fade in the NBA, and Wagner was a good shooter, but not great.

c) 22 games is too small a sample size IMO. I'll go with the 35% he shot for the season, which is good, not great.

If he shoots close to 40% from three he'll be a great additional to the squad.

Yea but this doesnt take into account, the difficulty of the 3 point attempts. I'm pretty sure Ross is a 40% 3 Point shooter if he only takes Joe Harris like ones. He takes a ton of off balance or heavy guarded threes.