Magic sign F Joe Ingles - 2 years, $22M with a team option on 2nd year

[SOUL]

Also Rockets are going all in (and are kinda forced to in a way) but at the cost of paying a lot for FVV, burying Amen right away (which people would be pissed at here), still unsure about Jalen/KPJ/Jabari as players, AND they don't have their own pick because of the OKC trade in 2024 and 2026 (luckily they own Brooklyn's picks, but still)

[Optimus_Steel]

Also Rockets are going all in (and are kinda forced to in a way) but at the cost of paying a lot for FVV, burying Amen right away (which people would be pissed at here), still unsure about Jalen/KPJ/Jabari as players, AND they don't have their own pick because of the OKC trade in 2024 and 2026 (luckily they own Brooklyn's picks, but still)

Didn't realize they don't have their own picks, wow.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using RealGM mobile app

[jezzerinho]

Look, he's a solid pro and brings some important attributes.

The criticism isnt with him directly. Its the glacial pace of the team's development. The complete inertia to make the moves that make you better quickly.

Miami was a laughing stock of a roster what, 3 years ago? The Suns made their consolidation the minute they knew they had a star in Booker and a maybe star in Ayton. The Pacers pounced for Hali. The Kings for Sabonis, Huerter. The Cavs for Allen and Mitchell.

Meanwhile Orlando, who has arguably the better path to success with two complementary stars at the most important positions for NBA success, plus some.great pieces on decent deals, PLUS ASSETS, continues to tread water.

Wtf are we waiting for? Global warming to end?

Miami had cap space to/Butler wanted to sign in South Beach.. rest of roster is literally draft guys and undrafted role players who people would categorize as not having inertia with homegrown talent (added Lowry/Love/etc once they were winning)
Booker is an 8 year pro who didn't make the playoffs his first 5 seasons at all
Fox and Kings were 5 years in as well before making the playoffs
Cavs might be a decent comp but still were in a unique position to give Jazz exactly what they were looking for for Mitchell.. TBD if they are better since Mitchell is already having trade rumors a year after he's traded

What is so glacial about it? Just finished season 2 of this with +12 wins despite being super injured. Were we supposed to compete Paolo's rookie year? Hell, before Paolo and midway through Franz and Suggs rookie year while literally JUST trading everybody away?

I think some people want us to speedrun the Hennigan 2.0 train and compete before young guys are even impactful. Paolo won ROY despite being in the 150s as far as like actual player impact.

If Paolo/Franz continue their trajectory especially this year, the rest of the roster is inconsequential in terms of bringing people in.. they will want to join us and trades/ring chasing vets are suddenly easier.

Why does doing something in a trade/FA window always have to bring out the "Hennigan 2.0" argument? Teams all around us are managing the trade market just fine, but if we were to dabble we'd end up destroying the franchise?

I get they dont want to rush. Even if theyre genuinely doing it for the team and not to prolong their jobs here, they have to be cogniscent of three things:

1) Big contract extensions are on the horizon and they wont be able to extend all their guys on rookie deals
2) Theres a glut of players, esp in combo guard position and they all need playing tine to develop.
3) Bringing in marginal, rotational guys like Harris and Ingles adds experience to the lockerroom, but not so much to the floor. An on-court general would teach these young guys so much its not funny.

Thats not to even get into the merits/demerits of individual players.

[SOUL]

Look, he's a solid pro and brings some important attributes.

The criticism isnt with him directly. Its the glacial pace of the team's development. The complete inertia to make the moves that make you better quickly.

Miami was a laughing stock of a roster what, 3 years ago? The Suns made their consolidation the minute they knew they had a star in Booker and a maybe star in Ayton. The Pacers pounced for Hali. The Kings for Sabonis, Huerter. The Cavs for Allen and Mitchell.

Meanwhile Orlando, who has arguably the better path to success with two complementary stars at the most important positions for NBA success, plus some.great pieces on decent deals, PLUS ASSETS, continues to tread water.

Wtf are we waiting for? Global warming to end?

Miami had cap space to/Butler wanted to sign in South Beach.. rest of roster is literally draft guys and undrafted role players who people would categorize as not having inertia with homegrown talent (added Lowry/Love/etc once they were winning)
Booker is an 8 year pro who didn't make the playoffs his first 5 seasons at all
Fox and Kings were 5 years in as well before making the playoffs
Cavs might be a decent comp but still were in a unique position to give Jazz exactly what they were looking for for Mitchell.. TBD if they are better since Mitchell is already having trade rumors a year after he's traded

What is so glacial about it? Just finished season 2 of this with +12 wins despite being super injured. Were we supposed to compete Paolo's rookie year? Hell, before Paolo and midway through Franz and Suggs rookie year while literally JUST trading everybody away?

I think some people want us to speedrun the Hennigan 2.0 train and compete before young guys are even impactful. Paolo won ROY despite being in the 150s as far as like actual player impact.

If Paolo/Franz continue their trajectory especially this year, the rest of the roster is inconsequential in terms of bringing people in.. they will want to join us and trades/ring chasing vets are suddenly easier.

Why does doing something in a trade/FA window always have to bring out the "Hennigan 2.0" argument? Teams all around us are managing the trade market just fine, but if we were to dabble we'd end up destroying the franchise?

I get they dont want to rush. Even if theyre genuinely doing it for the team and not to prolong their jobs here, they have to be cogniscent of three things:

1) Big contract extensions are on the horizon and they wont be able to extend all their guys on rookie deals
2) Theres a glut of players, esp in combo guard position and they all need playing tine to develop.
3) Bringing in marginal, rotational guys like Harris and Ingles adds experience to the lockerroom, but not so much to the floor. An on-court general would teach these young guys so much its not funny.

Thats not to even get into the merits/demerits of individual players.

I mean there's not much to respond to when people write their opinions but don't elaborate on what plan you prefer but now that you did I know a bit better but I'm still not seeing the exact "general" besides FVV so went for $43 mil AAV and Toronto fans are rejoicing in the street lol

I think they are cognizant though.. we'll see.. this roster is not close to being done at all.. I'm basically just looking at all the stars from up and coming teams a few years ago that are good now and the teams are vastly different besides maybe the stars and a few good role guys. Ever changing NBA/CBA rules make things hard to compare team building wise though from even a few years ago

[pepe1991]

Yea, we will have:
Bol, Suggs, Fultz, Isaac, Franz, Cole, Harris and Okeke as FA in 2024 or 2025.

There will whole lot: walked for nothing scenarios.

Btw i don't think us making playoffs is lock as many others.
We had .500 record after 25 games but also no injuries whatsoever. On injury list we were average-injuried team only because of Isaac

[SOUL]

Basically to me, we had so many guys under contract that free agency was always going to be a snore. It is what it is. New CBA rules dropped and basically said like "This is how you have to operate" and so a bunch of teams are making short-term deals besides rookie max extension guys or some of the more valuable players that teams don't mind splurging on. Hell, new NBA is showing guys can get re-signed and still moved by the end of the year so even resigning your guy doesn't indicate future.

This roster is primed for consolidation though, but under no rush to do it if it's not the right player. And we see teams blow it up every trade deadline and offseason.

Also have to consider the fact it takes two to tango.. lot of the guys potentially for sale right now are from teams that don't want to tank and want win-now guys (Portland), might ask for too much (Wagner), or the star isn't a guard and overlaps with Franz/Paolo

[SOUL]

We had .500 record after 25 games but also no injuries whatsoever. On injury list we were average-injuried team only because of Isaac

We were pretty healthy second half but also can't understate the insane amount of injuries before it, even if you take out Chuma and Isaac:

Franz (healthy besides 2)
Paolo (relatively healthy, bum ankle for 10 games)
Bol (relatively healthy but bad)
Markelle/Cole (missed 22 games each, not healthy early, healthy later)
Moe Wagner/WCJ (missed 25 games each more mid season, ankle/foot stuff)
Suggs/Harris (missed 30 ish games each all over season, diff injuries)

That's 7 rotation guys missing 160 games combined if you don't count Isaac, who was def in the rotation when he was back

Kings 8th most games guy (Fox at 73 games) would be our 2nd most played. Kinda crazy.

[pepe1991]

We had .500 record after 25 games but also no injuries whatsoever. On injury list we were average-injuried team only because of Isaac

We were pretty healthy second half but also can't understate the insane amount of injuries before it, even if you take out Chuma and Isaac:

Franz (healthy besides 2)
Paolo (relatively healthy, bum ankle for 10 games)
Bol (relatively healthy but bad)
Markelle/Cole (missed 22 games each, not healthy early, healthy later)
Moe Wagner/WCJ (missed 25 games each more mid season, ankle/foot stuff)
Suggs/Harris (missed 30 ish games each all over season, diff injuries)

That's 7 rotation guys missing 160 games combined if you don't count Isaac, who was def in the rotation when he was back

Kings 8th most games guy (Fox at 73 games) would be our 2nd most played. Kinda crazy.

We got Harris, , Bol,Fultz and Wendell because they are injury prone so it comes with therithory.

Still, we tend to lead this lists because of Isaac who averages to this date what? 27 games a year, in years where he plays at all?

[tooler]

Paolo (relatively healthy, bum ankle for 10 games)

Don't forget Paolo playing through a strange nerve issue in his arm.

[RookieStar]

Paolo (relatively healthy, bum ankle for 10 games)

Don't forget Paolo playing through a strange nerve issue in his arm.

Yeah... he used that as an excuse ofr have a poor shooting 3pt percentage

[tiderulz]

Paolo (relatively healthy, bum ankle for 10 games)

Don't forget Paolo playing through a strange nerve issue in his arm.

Yeah... he used that as an excuse ofr have a poor shooting 3pt percentage

was it an excuse or a legit reason?

[jezzerinho]

Basically to me, we had so many guys under contract that free agency was always going to be a snore. It is what it is. New CBA rules dropped and basically said like "This is how you have to operate" and so a bunch of teams are making short-term deals besides rookie max extension guys or some of the more valuable players that teams don't mind splurging on. Hell, new NBA is showing guys can get re-signed and still moved by the end of the year so even resigning your guy doesn't indicate future.

This roster is primed for consolidation though, but under no rush to do it if it's not the right player. And we see teams blow it up every trade deadline and offseason.

Also have to consider the fact it takes two to tango.. lot of the guys potentially for sale right now are from teams that don't want to tank and want win-now guys (Portland), might ask for too much (Wagner), or the star isn't a guard and overlaps with Franz/Paolo

In dont see why the new CAP makes it a snore. In fact, its widely acknowledged that we wont be seeing Gobert sized trade deals for a good while. The price of trading for a big contract has dropped significantly. Swings and roundabouts.

[Skybox]

Also Rockets are going all in (and are kinda forced to in a way) but at the cost of paying a lot for FVV, burying Amen right away (which people would be pissed at here), still unsure about Jalen/KPJ/Jabari as players, AND they don't have their own pick because of the OKC trade in 2024 and 2026 (luckily they own Brooklyn's picks, but still)

I don't think Amen gets buried. FVV can actually play some off ball or just shoot from PG spot, allowing him AND Amen to slide around the lineup as needed. Amen is big enough to play and defend 1-3, with the goal being to ultimately take over the point. HOU overpaid FVV, in part, as an investment in Amen's development alongside a strong mentor and example who is on a relatively short but rich deal -with that transition in mind. I think it's a brilliant signing for HOU...even if they don't jump into contention, FVV and Udoka will snap those wild young clowns into shape or weed them out, IMO. This is perfect for raw but gifted Thompson, who's lofty draft status is based largely on measurables and hints of vision, etc...takes the heat off of him to play PG right away. ORL really can't do that with Black, IMO, because Fultz and Suggs can't take up the shooting slack alongside him, IMO. Houston's got some shooters too...so even Whitmore can get some air support while he plays HIS game and, hopefully, develops a more complete arsenal. Watch Jabari remind everyone why he was in contention for #1 last year (no regrets-Paolo is the MAN ) with strong PG play and a more disciplined offense.

HOU may or may not make a playoff jump in the deep WEST (probably if they sign another vet starter) but I'm sure they will grow their young talent - a LOT with their new leader(s) in place.

[RookieStar]

Don't forget Paolo playing through a strange nerve issue in his arm.

Yeah... he used that as an excuse ofr have a poor shooting 3pt percentage

was it an excuse or a legit reason?

Only Paolo knows...

[Skybox]

Look, he's a solid pro and brings some important attributes.

The criticism isnt with him directly. Its the glacial pace of the team's development. The complete inertia to make the moves that make you better quickly.

Miami was a laughing stock of a roster what, 3 years ago? The Suns made their consolidation the minute they knew they had a star in Booker and a maybe star in Ayton. The Pacers pounced for Hali. The Kings for Sabonis, Huerter. The Cavs for Allen and Mitchell.

Meanwhile Orlando, who has arguably the better path to success with two complementary stars at the most important positions for NBA success, plus some.great pieces on decent deals, PLUS ASSETS, continues to tread water.

Wtf are we waiting for? Global warming to end?

Miami had cap space to/Butler wanted to sign in South Beach.. rest of roster is literally draft guys and undrafted role players who people would categorize as not having inertia with homegrown talent (added Lowry/Love/etc once they were winning)
Booker is an 8 year pro who didn't make the playoffs his first 5 seasons at all
Fox and Kings were 5 years in as well before making the playoffs
Cavs might be a decent comp but still were in a unique position to give Jazz exactly what they were looking for for Mitchell.. TBD if they are better since Mitchell is already having trade rumors a year after he's traded

What is so glacial about it? Just finished season 2 of this with +12 wins despite being super injured. Were we supposed to compete Paolo's rookie year? Hell, before Paolo and midway through Franz and Suggs rookie year while literally JUST trading everybody away?

I think some people want us to speedrun the Hennigan 2.0 train and compete before young guys are even impactful. Paolo won ROY despite being in the 150s as far as like actual player impact.

If Paolo/Franz continue their trajectory especially this year, the rest of the roster is inconsequential in terms of bringing people in.. they will want to join us and trades/ring chasing vets are suddenly easier.

Why does doing something in a trade/FA window always have to bring out the "Hennigan 2.0" argument? Teams all around us are managing the trade market just fine, but if we were to dabble we'd end up destroying the franchise?

I get they dont want to rush. Even if theyre genuinely doing it for the team and not to prolong their jobs here, they have to be cogniscent of three things:

1) Big contract extensions are on the horizon and they wont be able to extend all their guys on rookie deals
2) Theres a glut of players, esp in combo guard position and they all need playing tine to develop.
3) Bringing in marginal, rotational guys like Harris and Ingles adds experience to the lockerroom, but not so much to the floor. An on-court general would teach these young guys so much its not funny.

Thats not to even get into the merits/demerits of individual players.

YES...Robin Lopez is funny and a good "veteran presence" but is, at best, a marginal impact. FVV will be the best guy on HOU many nights and will command accountability from the young talented knuckleheads all over the HOU roster. Actually commanding respect as a solid player, especially, with the ball in your hand at PG is exponentially more impactful than any other position. Adding a high-priced QB is a lot different than a great LB. That's why Jaylen Brown, for example, is a great player, perhaps worth a Supermax on some teams, but not the guy you build with as your "leader". Ingles is somewhere in between, IMO. If he's healthy, he'll make big shots, brilliant passes, clever defensive plays. More on-court impact than Robin, but far less of a needle-mover than a starting PG would be.

I like the signing, but it's of marginal importance. He'll help us win games and inspire some development, but it's not a big play. FO is clearly banking on internal development and they may be right.

[Magic#1]

Niang would have been nice, but Ingles with the cap flexibility is very understandable and his intangibles will be very helpful for this team even if it's for one year. We're in a good position to potentially trade for a major piece whenever the next star becomes available.

[fendilim]

I like the ingles signing. He seems a generally good guy and well loved by his teammates.

Crafty player as well, I think he has a lot of experience to share on and off the court.

[davey_wavy]

All-Star Player or potential All Star, early to mid 20s, what's to be paid, gets us closer to contention..

You: NOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I HATE IT

35 year old shooter with minimal tools, average player at best, knows he's worth less than the MLE

You: YESSSSSSSS. LOVE THE SIGNING!!

[Residual-Heat]

so how much potential capspace do the Magic have next season? Isaac unguaranteed, Fultz expiring, Cole expiring RFA, Ingles team option, Chuma expiring, Harris expiring, Bol if he's back will be an expiring contract.

WCJ 12 mill, Paolo 12 mill, Suggs 9 mill, Wagner 6 mill, Black 6 mill, Howard 5 mill, Houstan 2 mill. Thats like 50 mill combined. Like 80 mill under the salary cap. We'll see what contract Mo Wagner gets, but thats still a lot of cap space.

There arent a lot of great options in 2024 FA and im sure some will sign extensions before they become FAs, but here's quick list:

Vassell RFA im sure Spurs will match but worth trying anyway
Jaylen Brown not the best fit but very good player
Dejountae Murray i dont like him
Hield not a bad option
Klay old
Jaden Mcdaniels not the best fit, but i like him a lot
Edwards, Lamelo will sign extensions.
Tyrese Maxey RFA same with Vassell
GTJ not a bad option
Dinwiddie not a bad option
Josh Hart not a bad option
Vanderbilt could be ok
Batum
Tyus Jones
Nik Claxton if we want to move away from WCJ, though Nets will try to keep him
Harden no
Josh Okogie maybe if he learns to shoot could be a solid bench player

[OrlandoSaban]

The move is a 7 out of 10 for me. Sure he's a vet on a two year deal. He's in his mid 30s. He's been banged up the last two years. His 3&D prowess will be reliable. How much he has left in the tank is the question.

Seems like an expensive assistant assistant coach to me