Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc

[Optimus_Steel]

Bigs normally don't struggle that much in their transition to NBA, that goes for both college and non-college kids.
Game is esencially same for them, close to the rim, playing against other tall guys. Where guards have to adjust to defense, trapping, ball screens , bigger court, different 3 point line, faster opponents off dribble...

Bamba is kind a cought in no man's land of nba.
He is nowhere near skilled to play like traditional bigs such as Vučević, Gasol bros, Horford, Embiid, yet he does not have agility or energy to play like WSC or Deandre Jordan or McGee ( rim runners).

Too early to really draw any conclusions but he indeed reminds me a lot of Thon Maker, allegedly athletic ,fast ,shooting 3s center.

Spoiler:

who is probably playing last year in nba after 3 years

These draft picks have been playing basketball for years by the time draft time comes. If they don't already have a reliable skill set by then the overwhelming chance is that they will be never acquire it. Yes they will improve but marginally, not the vast improvement necessary.

[pepe1991]

Bigs normally don't struggle that much in their transition to NBA, that goes for both college and non-college kids.
Game is esencially same for them, close to the rim, playing against other tall guys. Where guards have to adjust to defense, trapping, ball screens , bigger court, different 3 point line, faster opponents off dribble...

Bamba is kind a cought in no man's land of nba.
He is nowhere near skilled to play like traditional bigs such as Vučević, Gasol bros, Horford, Embiid, yet he does not have agility or energy to play like WSC or Deandre Jordan or McGee ( rim runners).

Too early to really draw any conclusions but he indeed reminds me a lot of Thon Maker, allegedly athletic ,fast ,shooting 3s center.

Spoiler:

who is probably playing last year in nba after 3 years

These draft picks have been playing basketball for years by the time draft time comes. If they don't already have a reliable skill set by then the overwhelming chance is that they will be never acquire it. Yes they will improve but marginally, not the vast improvement necessary.

Yea. I mean at age of 20 most of them have been playing basketball for decade in some form or another. There are kids who at age of 22 already play/practice basketball for 16 years. Acting like it's normal and expected to draft somebody without single basketball skill is crazy

[drsd]

He had a bad couple games shooting the ball but he's still in top 10 in almost every statistical category for a rookie.

http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/rookies

Bamba is 8th in rookie PER. But he is behind all the other Bigs: Ayton, Bagley III, Jackson Jr., Robinson, and Carter Jr.

[MoMM]

He had a bad couple games shooting the ball but he's still in top 10 in almost every statistical category for a rookie.

http://insider.espn.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/rookies

Bamba is 8th in rookie PER. But he is behind all the other Bigs: Ayton, Bagley III, Jackson Jr., Robinson, and Carter Jr.

PER doesn't account for defense, only blocks/steals that are interesting stats, but we all know that they can be misleading.

[MoMM]

Bigs normally don't struggle that much in their transition to NBA, that goes for both college and non-college kids.

Only if he played as a traditional big, he wants to be a guard standing at 3 point line. Man, mind your own business, get rebounds, blocks, dunks, hook shots... eventually in the future you can learn how to shot for 3 (Vuc, Lopez, etc) to expand your skills.

[Knightro]

Hiring him was the biggest problem without having a capable roster of actually accomplishing anything. Of course it’s going to have the pro-tank crowd hoping for losses. They’ll be mad when he does his job by winning multiple games in the inconsequential renaming months.

The hilarious part is going to be when Clifford continues to crack the whip on these guys in March and April and ends up pulling a .500 record after the all-star break once other teams have completely packed it in (his Charlotte teams did this every year) and costs the Magic a couple spots of draft position.

You’ll see even more melting then for sure.

[darthmerrick]

Bigs normally don't struggle that much in their transition to NBA, that goes for both college and non-college kids.
Game is esencially same for them, close to the rim, playing against other tall guys. Where guards have to adjust to defense, trapping, ball screens , bigger court, different 3 point line, faster opponents off dribble...

Bamba is kind a cought in no man's land of nba.
He is nowhere near skilled to play like traditional bigs such as Vučević, Gasol bros, Horford, Embiid, yet he does not have agility or energy to play like WSC or Deandre Jordan or McGee ( rim runners).

Too early to really draw any conclusions but he indeed reminds me a lot of Thon Maker, allegedly athletic ,fast ,shooting 3s center.

Spoiler:

who is probably playing last year in nba after 3 years

Maybe we make Bamba play PF? Don't know if he's quick enough to guard some of the PF's in this league, but he may match up better than getting pushed around at Center. Resign Vuc and trade Gordon.

[basketballRob]

Bigs normally don't struggle that much in their transition to NBA, that goes for both college and non-college kids.
Game is esencially same for them, close to the rim, playing against other tall guys. Where guards have to adjust to defense, trapping, ball screens , bigger court, different 3 point line, faster opponents off dribble...

Bamba is kind a cought in no man's land of nba.
He is nowhere near skilled to play like traditional bigs such as Vučević, Gasol bros, Horford, Embiid, yet he does not have agility or energy to play like WSC or Deandre Jordan or McGee ( rim runners).

Too early to really draw any conclusions but he indeed reminds me a lot of Thon Maker, allegedly athletic ,fast ,shooting 3s center.

Spoiler:

who is probably playing last year in nba after 3 years

Maybe we make Bamba play PF? Don't know if he's quick enough to guard some of the PF's in this league, but he may match up better than getting pushed around at Center. Resign Vuc and trade Gordon.

Bamba is a unicorn. When he tops out he'll probably be near the top of the league in 3 pt shooting and all-NBA defensive player. He's second on the team in defensive rating now and will probably be first by the end of the year.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2019.html#all_per_poss

[pepe1991]

Bigs normally don't struggle that much in their transition to NBA, that goes for both college and non-college kids.
Game is esencially same for them, close to the rim, playing against other tall guys. Where guards have to adjust to defense, trapping, ball screens , bigger court, different 3 point line, faster opponents off dribble...

Bamba is kind a cought in no man's land of nba.
He is nowhere near skilled to play like traditional bigs such as Vučević, Gasol bros, Horford, Embiid, yet he does not have agility or energy to play like WSC or Deandre Jordan or McGee ( rim runners).

Too early to really draw any conclusions but he indeed reminds me a lot of Thon Maker, allegedly athletic ,fast ,shooting 3s center.

Spoiler:

who is probably playing last year in nba after 3 years

Maybe we make Bamba play PF? Don't know if he's quick enough to guard some of the PF's in this league, but he may match up better than getting pushed around at Center. Resign Vuc and trade Gordon.

Bamba is a unicorn. When he tops out he'll probably be near the top of the league in 3 pt shooting and all-NBA defensive player. He's second on the team in defensive rating now and will probably be first by the end of the year.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2019.html#all_per_poss

[drsd]

Bamba is a unicorn. When he tops out he'll probably be near the top of the league in 3 pt shooting and all-NBA defensive player. He's second on the team in defensive rating now and will probably be first by the end of the year.

3-and-D from the Center slot. That is Bill Lambier territory!


..

[EAS Law]

While I can appreciate statistical analysis generally—please keep in mind that MCW won rookie of the year with a bunch of triple-doubles his rookie season and shortly after, was regarded as a total joke.

The truth is that because of the human element, stats in NBA basketball only mean so much. We should all probably just stop predicting the future and condemning our draft pick(s) and front office as busts about a half a season into their rookie campaign.

[drsd]

While I can appreciate statistical analysis generally—please keep in mind that MCW won rookie of the year with a bunch of triple-doubles his rookie season and shortly after, was regarded as a total joke.

The truth is that because of the human element, stats in NBA basketball only mean so much. We should all probably just stop predicting the future and condemning our draft pick(s) and front office as busts about a half a season into their rookie campaign.

Carter-Williams is in his "prime" now and is averaging 4/1/1
Sad.
(but he has made 15M playing a game, so that's good!)


..

[VFX]

Hiring him was the biggest problem without having a capable roster of actually accomplishing anything. Of course it’s going to have the pro-tank crowd hoping for losses. They’ll be mad when he does his job by winning multiple games in the inconsequential renaming months.

The hilarious part is going to be when Clifford continues to crack the whip on these guys in March and April and ends up pulling a .500 record after the all-star break once other teams have completely packed it in (his Charlotte teams did this every year) and costs the Magic a couple spots of draft position.

You’ll see even more melting then for sure.

Right. That’s not good in the grand scheme of things, so people should be justifiably unhappy. It’s a great thing for Clifford to show he’s capable of doing more with less, but all it’s going to do is delay this FO from actually doing anything to change this roster for the better. Essentially the main point of where this organization should be focused - maximizing talent acquisition.

It’s not just about the draft at this point. Yes, getting a better pick is great, but the last thing this FO needs is an excuse to continue to do nothing to this roster or (god forbid) resign players that have led us nowhere in past seasons. I could easily see it happening.

The crowd that think this Magic team are going to gain anything substantial from merely appearing in the playoffs are fooling themselves. Talent always wins out compared to moral victories because it’s the nba and not a Disney movie. Furthermore, anything accomplished with this roster means nothing considering these wins are off the backs of players that more than likely need to be traded.

[Bergmaniac]

Bigs normally don't struggle that much in their transition to NBA, that goes for both college and non-college kids.
Game is esencially same for them, close to the rim, playing against other tall guys. Where guards have to adjust to defense, trapping, ball screens , bigger court, different 3 point line, faster opponents off dribble...

Bamba is kind a cought in no man's land of nba.
He is nowhere near skilled to play like traditional bigs such as Vučević, Gasol bros, Horford, Embiid, yet he does not have agility or energy to play like WSC or Deandre Jordan or McGee ( rim runners).

Too early to really draw any conclusions but he indeed reminds me a lot of Thon Maker, allegedly athletic ,fast ,shooting 3s center.

Spoiler:

who is probably playing last year in nba after 3 years

Maybe we make Bamba play PF? Don't know if he's quick enough to guard some of the PF's in this league, but he may match up better than getting pushed around at Center. Resign Vuc and trade Gordon.

Bamba is a unicorn. When he tops out he'll probably be near the top of the league in 3 pt shooting and all-NBA defensive player. He's second on the team in defensive rating now and will probably be first by the end of the year.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2019.html#all_per_poss

The individual defensive rating calculated by basketball-reference is a pretty useless stat. Centres almost always have the best one and good perimeter defenders are almost always underrated by it because blocks and defensive rebounds are main components there. Vucevic leads the Magic in it this year and he had the best DRTG of the starters in most previous seasons too. Obviously Bamba is nowhere near as good as a defender right now as Isaac despite what the individual DRTG says.

[basketballRob]

Maybe we make Bamba play PF? Don't know if he's quick enough to guard some of the PF's in this league, but he may match up better than getting pushed around at Center. Resign Vuc and trade Gordon.

Bamba is a unicorn. When he tops out he'll probably be near the top of the league in 3 pt shooting and all-NBA defensive player. He's second on the team in defensive rating now and will probably be first by the end of the year.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2019.html#all_per_poss

The individual defensive rating calculated by basketball-reference is a pretty useless stat. Centres almost always have the best one and good perimeter defenders are almost always underrated by it because blocks and defensive rebounds are main components there. Vucevic leads the Magic in it this year and he had the best DRTG of the starters in most previous seasons too. Obviously Bamba is nowhere near as good as a defender right now as Isaac despite what the individual DRTG says.

No it doesn't. It goes by how many points you score and the player you're guarding per 100 possessions.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[Bergmaniac]

Bamba is a unicorn. When he tops out he'll probably be near the top of the league in 3 pt shooting and all-NBA defensive player. He's second on the team in defensive rating now and will probably be first by the end of the year.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2019.html#all_per_poss

The individual defensive rating calculated by basketball-reference is a pretty useless stat. Centres almost always have the best one and good perimeter defenders are almost always underrated by it because blocks and defensive rebounds are main components there. Vucevic leads the Magic in it this year and he had the best DRTG of the starters in most previous seasons too. Obviously Bamba is nowhere near as good as a defender right now as Isaac despite what the individual DRTG says.

No it doesn't. It goes by how many points you score and the player you're guarding per 100 possessions.

Sure it does. it's explained here - https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ratings.html . Defensive rebounds and blocks are part of the formula. That's why according to it Westbrook is the best defender on the Thunder even though nobody who watches the games thinks so and why Vucevic is always among the Magic leaders.

[pepe1991]

B reference has "fake" ,broken formula for off and def rating.

Bamba's actual net rating by NBA.com is -17

92,5 offensive
117,5 defensive

[NotACat]

I don't think we should be concerned about Bamba's numbers, his body is going to change a lot in the next year or 2 and then we'll be able to see what kind of player he can be.

I'm more concerned about his touch in the 4-8ft range and general feel of the game. I think l we should be giving him more perimeter opportunities and opportunities to create there in iso situations against other bigs.

[drsd]

I don't think we should be concerned about Bamba's numbers, his body is going to change a lot in the next year or 2 and then we'll be able to see what kind of player he can be.

I'm more concerned about his touch in the 4-8ft range and general feel of the game. I think l we should be giving him more perimeter opportunities and opportunities to create there in iso situations against other bigs.

Bamba is 2 years of body-gym work from being an NBA starter. We have always known that.

So: what will the Vučević construct extension be? Full max (130M AT 4 YEARS). Declining from 30M start (80M AT 3 YEARS) ?



edit: Vučević's infant helps the Magic resign him. There is little doubt to that.



..

[rcklsscognition]

Birch looks like he's been using the Orlando gym facilities to his full advantage. I hope we keep him around, he's got potential to be a per36 double double guy we can call on from time to time.