Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15

[Knightro]

208 nba players suited this year to play.
Cole Anthony is ranked 206th in TS%.

Worst than him? Not a single rookie.

edit: after new refresh, he is 207th among 208. Ish Smith only worst.

He is also 10th worst in BPM and 9th worst in win share.

But naturally, if you give monkey endless amount of time and the pen, he might write Hamlet...one day.

I'll give him credit for hitting 3 point shot that ended up being buzzerbeater. But 15 games in,as player, he has been below replacment level player, by wide margin. Magic going into a season without backup is just another self served kick in nuts from Weltman and Hammond. Trying to make playoffs with Fultz and rookie PG in rotation is like trying to win a race while overeating at mcdonalds for last year and half.

I know you and I have been down this road a million times already, but all I can say is that it will never not make me laugh when you declare the first 15 games of a guy's career is actually his entire career.

Has Cole Anthony turned it around? Is he even capable of turning it around? Maybe not on either front. But if we want to mess around with small sample sizes, in his last three games he has a .502 TS% which would jump him about 30 spots on your list into the mid 170s.

The guy might be destined to just not be that good, but 2 of his best games of the season have come in the last week and I'm interested to see if he can start to make more improvements.

[pepe1991]

208 nba players suited this year to play.
Cole Anthony is ranked 206th in TS%.

Worst than him? Not a single rookie.

edit: after new refresh, he is 207th among 208. Ish Smith only worst.

He is also 10th worst in BPM and 9th worst in win share.

But naturally, if you give monkey endless amount of time and the pen, he might write Hamlet...one day.

I'll give him credit for hitting 3 point shot that ended up being buzzerbeater. But 15 games in,as player, he has been below replacment level player, by wide margin. Magic going into a season without backup is just another self served kick in nuts from Weltman and Hammond. Trying to make playoffs with Fultz and rookie PG in rotation is like trying to win a race while overeating at mcdonalds for last year and half.

I know you and I have been down this road a million times already, but all I can say is that it will never not make me laugh when you declare the first 15 games of a guy's career is actually his entire career.

Has Cole Anthony turned it around? Is he even capable of turning it around? Maybe not on either front. But if we want to mess around with small sample sizes, in his last three games he has a .502 TS% which would jump him about 30 spots on your list into the mid 170s.

The guy might be destined to just not be that good, but 2 of his best games of the season have come in the last week and I'm interested to see if he can start to make more improvements.

Well there has been whole one college year where he was dreadful so it's not like we figured out in last 15 games anything.
More like one year + 15 games in nba.

Those rookies are 20,21. They didn't start play basketball yesterday. In his case, he is playing basketball for 10 years at least. He won't woke up one day and become something superior to what he was last 10 years.
Same was Gordon debate in 2016 and 2017. Some of posters expected he'll learn everything. Spoiler alert. Almost nothing happend 5 years later.

It's same case with Culver last year. Everybody was up in arms how he is just underused and will turn around. Year two, still has no offense.

Of course we can always deflect all critics with typical real gm excuses:
1) rookie - player who is actually rookie
2) basically rookie- for 4 years excuse why XY didn't play much
3) bad coach- after 3 years new line of excuses
4) bad team- always valid excuse, regardless of situation or years of experience
5) teammates hate him ---"buddyball stops Gordon to become Kawhi"

But this will only lead us to rabbithole of bums like Hezonja, Payton, Maker, Skal, Josh Jackson.... Most of them are bad for simple reason- not that talented.

[pepe1991]

Since i allegedly „hate“ rookies i decided to make huge list of top 10 picks and how many of them were terrible rookies that turned into great players. My sample size is 2012-2017 draft. Once again, only top 10 picks.

2012:
Davis –great rookie, great player
MKG- pretty much average rookie and mediocre nba player ( even averaged more ppg in rookie year than for career )
Beal- great rookie, great player
Waiters- better rookie than player
Robinson- terrible rookie, terrible player
Lillard- great rookie, great player
Barnes –good rookie good player
Ross- average rookie, good player
Drummond- good rookie good player
Rivers- mediocre rookie, mediocre player

2013
Bennett- bust , scrub
Oladipo- good rookie good player
Porter – terrible rookie, good player
Zeller- mediocre rookie, mediocre player
Len- same as Zeller
Noel- better rookie than player
Mclemore- mediocre/ mediocre
KCP- mediocre rookie / average player
Burke- mediocre/ mediocre
Mccullum- mediocre rookie / great player

2014
Wiggins- mediocre / mediocre
Parker- good/ mediocre ( injuries)
Embiid- never was „rookie“
Gordon- mediocre/ average
Exum- crap/ crap
Smart- mediocre / mediocre
Randle - never was rookie/ good player
Stauskas –crap crap
Vonleh- crap crap
Payton- mediocre / mediocre

2015
Towns- great / great
Russell- average / average-fine ( whatever you see in him)
Jah- better rookie than player
Zingis –great / great
Hezonja- crap crap
WSC- mediocre / mediocre
Johnson- crap cpra
Mudiay- crap- crap
Kaminsky- better rookie than player
Winslow- better rookie than player

2016

Simmons- never was rookie
Ingram- average / good
Brown- mediocre /good( great)
Bender- crap / crap
Dunn- better rookie than player
Hield / should be unranked as lied about age but good rookie- good player
Murray good/ great
Chriss- crap crap
Poelti-mediocre / medicore
Maker- crap crap

2017
Fultz- crap / mediocre
Ball- crap / mediocre
Tatum- great / great
Jackson- crap crap
Fox- good/ good
Isaac- mediocre / good
Lauri- good / mediocre (getting better? )
Ntkilina- crap crap
Smith – better rookie than player
Collins- crap / meh ( i don't know, guy is always hurt)



Among 60 players , only 6 showed noticable improvments, Brown Ingram and McCullum made massive strides. That like what? 5% sucess rate?
So next time before you deflact any critic of rookie with " he will improve" think twice about it.
More players peaked in rookie year than ones who had massive improvments later.

Reason for this is rather simple one. Rookies are not 13 years old boys. They are grown up 20-21 years old players that are not your average highschool players that go to school, study, play with kids and play basketball. They are all basketball prodigies. Last 3,4 years before nba their life is altered in NBA direction. Almost all of them are working with private coaches, probably being payed under a dask to move to XY schools to work with XY coaches ,transfer in highschool to create hype, have massive social networks following and by the college year they spent like 10 years playing basketball and working with pro coaches for at least 2,3 years.

[Skybox]

Since i allegedly „hate“ rookies i decided to make huge list of top 10 picks and how many of them were terrible rookies that turned into great players. My sample size is 2012-2017 draft. Once again, only top 10 picks.

2012:
Davis –great rookie, great player
MKG- pretty much average rookie and mediocre nba player ( even averaged more ppg in rookie year than for career )
Beal- great rookie, great player
Waiters- better rookie than player
Robinson- terrible rookie, terrible player
Lillard- great rookie, great player
Barnes –good rookie good player
Ross- average rookie, good player
Drummond- good rookie good player
Rivers- mediocre rookie, mediocre player

2013
Bennett- bust , scrub
Oladipo- good rookie good player
Porter – terrible rookie, good player
Zeller- mediocre rookie, mediocre player
Len- same as Zeller
Noel- better rookie than player
Mclemore- mediocre/ mediocre
KCP- mediocre rookie / average player
Burke- mediocre/ mediocre
Mccullum- mediocre rookie / great player

2014
Wiggins- mediocre / mediocre
Parker- good/ mediocre ( injuries)
Embiid- never was „rookie“
Gordon- mediocre/ average
Exum- crap/ crap
Smart- mediocre / mediocre
Randle - never was rookie/ good player
Stauskas –crap crap
Vonleh- crap crap
Payton- mediocre / mediocre

2015
Towns- great / great
Russell- average / average-fine ( whatever you see in him)
Jah- better rookie than player
Zingis –great / great
Hezonja- crap crap
WSC- mediocre / mediocre
Johnson- crap cpra
Mudiay- crap- crap
Kaminsky- better rookie than player
Winslow- better rookie than player

2016

Simmons- never was rookie
Ingram- average / good
Brown- mediocre /good( great)
Bender- crap / crap
Dunn- better rookie than player
Hield / should be unranked as lied about age but good rookie- good player
Murray good/ great
Chriss- crap crap
Poelti-mediocre / medicore
Maker- crap crap

2017
Fultz- crap / mediocre
Ball- crap / mediocre
Tatum- great / great
Jackson- crap crap
Fox- good/ good
Isaac- mediocre / good
Lauri- good / mediocre (getting better? )
Ntkilina- crap crap
Smith – better rookie than player
Collins- crap / meh ( i don't know, guy is always hurt)



Among 60 players , only 6 showed noticable improvments, Brown Ingram and McCullum made massive strides. That like what? 5% sucess rate?
So next time before you deflact any critic of rookie with " he will improve" think twice about it.
More players peaked in rookie year than ones who had massive improvments later.

Reason for this is rather simple one. Rookies are not 13 years old boys. They are grown up 20-21 years old players that are not your average highschool players that go to school, study, play with kids and play basketball. They are all basketball prodigies. Last 3,4 years before nba their life is altered in NBA direction. Almost all of them are working with private coaches, probably being payed under a dask to move to XY schools to work with XY coaches ,transfer in highschool to create hype, have massive social networks following and by the college year they spent like 10 years playing basketball and working with pro coaches for at least 2,3 years.

Your point is well-taken. Another conclusion I draw from your exhibit is "Why the hell would a mediocre (not bad) team throw away what we have for a deep dive into that crapshoot? It's not that I don't want a high pick, I'm just suggesting that, at the same time, we should scour the league's benches for trades for as of yet unrealized talent (with slightly more intel available after a year or two in the NBA). Based on your examples, odds of scoring in the draft are far from favorable compared to trades. If we ended up giving away both AG and Evan while swinging and missing on a few good guesses - I'd be ok with that effort (especially if it gets us that higher pick as consolation).

Also, most highly-ranked American rookies are 19 after one year in college.

[basketballRob]

I think Cole's got a chance because of his defense. He's already a far superior defender than Fournier and will probably surpass him offensively one day

Fournier's defensive rating 115.6 lol
Cole's defensive rating 104.5.

[X_O_Z]

On Cole’s defense...

For you Pepe

1st:
Cole and all other rookies in this year’s draft had to play NBA level basketball off the gates without Summer league games after being drafted less than a month. That’s without having time to be evaluated through Summer league games and months of training with coaching staff, etc. Give them credit.

2nd.
Cole, has not much have basketball games for almost 8 months before draft night in which he was coming off from an injury that he was not fully healed at that time. Credit to him again.

3rd.
Cole had to pick up the role of starter after Fultz injury which had happened few weeks back. Mind you, he is playing a position that would require him to play against some of the best NBA players that are playing in his position. This is not an easy task at all.

4th.
Cole have to learn some plays and understand the system right away, unlike the rookies of the past where they have time during the summer league and off season time. Cole (along with other rookies of course) did not have this privilege.

Credit to Cole for during best he can in such a short noticed/starter role. Pepe, your sample size of where he is currently ranked is to early to tell. The eye test tells me he can still improve in areas in his game. The one thing I will say is that once Cole shots starts to fall, than the weakness in his game becomes a small margin. He is already becoming a pesky defender and is a great rebounder. His shot selection is improving for the past 3-4 games. The one thing that I am concern is his passing abilities which isn’t all that great, but that can be improved on..

Pepe, I think you and I can both agree on some of my points on here. Your numbers don’t lie, but its also 15 game in so still plenty of time. Also too, I know you list players from the past decade and where they stand now in comparison with their rookie year, but they don’t all play POINT GUARD position which is the hardest position to play.

[OrlandO]

I think Cole's got a chance because of his defense. He's already a far superior defender than Fournier and will probably surpass him offensively one day

Fournier's defensive rating 115.6 lol
Cole's defensive rating 104.5.

Cole's defensive rating as a starter: 117

[Skin]

Cole just let's guys drive past him and shoot over him. He's terrible. Like Jameer level bad.

[basketballRob]

Cole just let's guys drive past him and shoot over him. He's terrible. Like Jameer level bad.

I haven't seen that at all, he's been very good keeping players in front of him. He drifts away from them on the perimeter is where he gets hurt.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[basketballRob]

I think Cole's got a chance because of his defense. He's already a far superior defender than Fournier and will probably surpass him offensively one day

Fournier's defensive rating 115.6 lol
Cole's defensive rating 104.5.

Cole's defensive rating as a starter: 117

Hopefully his next 7 games as a starter are better than his first 7.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[Bensational]

Cole just let's guys drive past him and shoot over him. He's terrible. Like Jameer level bad.

I don't mean to laugh at you, but I genuinely get a laugh every time I see you complain about Cole since he's everything I figured you'd want out of a prospect. Alpha attitude, got some dawg, lives for the spotlight, good athleticism and hops, hustles.

But then to you he's just a bad chucker.

Funny how much we can misread people sometimes (me on you).

[Skybox]

If you want”Alpha”, you’ve got to accept some “chucker”...they’re almost the same thing, especially in a rookie.

[Skin]

Cole just let's guys drive past him and shoot over him. He's terrible. Like Jameer level bad.

I don't mean to laugh at you, but I genuinely get a laugh every time I see you complain about Cole since he's everything I figured you'd want out of a prospect. Alpha attitude, got some dawg, lives for the spotlight, good athleticism and hops, hustles.

But then to you he's just a bad chucker.

Funny how much we can misread people sometimes (me on you).

I think you're just misreading the player.

Cole does have some dawg in him but he's a harmless chihuahua. Little guy has got a lotta bark, but no bite.

[pepe1991]

Cole just let's guys drive past him and shoot over him. He's terrible. Like Jameer level bad.

I don't mean to laugh at you, but I genuinely get a laugh every time I see you complain about Cole since he's everything I figured you'd want out of a prospect. Alpha attitude, got some dawg, lives for the spotlight, good athleticism and hops, hustles.

But then to you he's just a bad chucker.

Funny how much we can misread people sometimes (me on you).

I think you're just misreading the player.

Cole does have some dawg in him but he's a harmless chihuahua. Little guy has got a lotta bark, but no bite.

SO.... like Oubre?
Oubre is one of few players that gives Cole fight for worst nba starter. Oubre is one of few, if not only nba starter who averages more shots than points.

[Skin]

I don't mean to laugh at you, but I genuinely get a laugh every time I see you complain about Cole since he's everything I figured you'd want out of a prospect. Alpha attitude, got some dawg, lives for the spotlight, good athleticism and hops, hustles.

But then to you he's just a bad chucker.

Funny how much we can misread people sometimes (me on you).

I think you're just misreading the player.

Cole does have some dawg in him but he's a harmless chihuahua. Little guy has got a lotta bark, but no bite.

SO.... like Oubre?
Oubre is one of few players that gives Cole fight for worst nba starter. Oubre is one of few, if not only nba starter who averages more shots than points.

I don't know what's going on with Oubre this year. It's unlike his track record. I think he would've done better here than GS.

That said, I never considered Oubre an alpha. Just a dawg. His player value is similar to AG. That's the trade I wanted. Not someone who would put us over the top. Just someone who could help rebalance the roster. Better fit next to Isaac.

I would not have wanted to trade 15 for Oubre, but if I knew we were drafting Cole then I would have. No way we could get Oubre for Cole right now even with Oubre playing badly and matching salary (+ Aminu or something).

[dsg2021]

AG hasn’t learned anything in 5 years? Smh that’s very wrong. He’s dramatically improved handle, passing, and his awareness on both sides of the ball, especially defensively. He’s also taken the mantle of star-stopping and being a bigger force on defense. And he knows his best strengths in offense, something that only needs to be set up by much better guards (than he’s ever played with so far), all with great passing awareness to boot. And a very improved set/open 3 shot in 5 years.

[dsg2021]

For a 15th pick, Cole Anthony is money.

[mrtcsm]

Well, he has definitely improved the last three games with his shot selection while maintaining his aggressiveness. I enjoy to see him crash the boards and challenge opponents when they are driving to the rim. Hopefully this meaningless season will allow him to continue learning the game and develop the confidence he needs to thrive. Time will tell...

[zaymon]

Well, he has definitely improved the last three games with his shot selection while maintaining his aggressiveness. I enjoy to see him crash the boards and challenge opponents when they are driving to the rim. Hopefully this meaningless season will allow him to continue learning the game and develop the confidence he needs to thrive. Time will tell...

First game he didnt use that awful floater. He needs to work at it in the offseason if he wants to use it

[Skin]

For a 15th pick, Cole Anthony is money.

This perspective helps.