Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 3.0

[BadMofoPimp]

I don't think this is the critique of Black you think it is.

Ok I want to clear up some misconceptions here...

I like Anthony Black.

I think he's a good prospect. I like his size. I like his quick hands. I like his quick feet. I think he has FANTASTIC defensive potential which is valuable and something a lot of people don't put enough stock into when making evaluations.

But right now he doesn't do anything offensively.

He barely shoots.

He barely dribbles.

Most possessions he runs over to a corner and just stands and if a pass doesn't come his way he just runs back the other direction. And if a pass does come his way, he doesn't shoot unless he's absolutely wide open.

I don't know if that is specifically how they're asking him to play or if it's just in his nature to assume a complimentary role. My sense is that it's more of the latter since he was a low usage player (comparatively speaking) in college and even back to high school.

There has been basically zero meaningful on ball reps out of him in the entire season and the dude has played almost 1000 minutes.

To assume he could even possibly be the starting point guard for this team as early as next season just feels insane to me.

Every minute Black plays is another minute where Franz and Paolo are the defacto point guards.

Now if the argument is "good, that's ultimately what we want" then so be it. But if all you want out of your point guard is a catch-and-shoot guy offensively who defends at a high level, then go out and get an actual elite shooter, ya know?

Agreed. At this point I am starting to think that last years draft picks are either massive projects or busts. Hope they can provem wrong!

[pepe1991]

Our problem with Black is that we don't even try to play him at PG. From gates it has been that way. We are more interested into putting him on the floor,albet without any purpose ,than playing him as PG.

Basically he is off ball SF and nothing else, or at least that's a role he has been playing whole year long.

For instance, he only was part of 35 pick&rolls as handler whole season.

There is also potential conflict of interest heading into next season. If you want to win games and do something, playing Black exstended min probably won't help you. Also if you elect to go through with that plan, you can easly have season worst than current one. Is that bad message to send to Franz and Paolo? That you are not seeking for any roster improvment and just take them for granted?

I don't know. Players aren't idiots, if you are Franz at least part of your brain already figured Dennis Schroder is best PG you ever played with yet that guy is nba backup. So why your team isn't doing more to actually find better PGs, if you know how important it is for a team to have one?


Somebody posted how Franz- Paolo pass more to each other than the others. It means several things like: great chemistry, good feeling for a game, but it also shows how they trust more in each other than they trust the other players on a roster. And you can't really blame them.
You pass to Fultz outside 12 feet and he just dribbles it out. You pass Suggs and if it's not catch& shoot it's normally instant bad decision in making, you pass to Isaac or Okeke or Houstan and nobody recives ball back ( 0,5 assists a game ), you pass it to Black and he just passes out of everything.

I'm really looking forward to playin & playoffs to see how our players react when somebody puts defensive effort on our limited offensive creativity. I think it will be telling and very helpful going forward, and help make roster decisions.

[Skybox]

Our problem with Black is that we don't even try to play him at PG. From gates it has been that way. We are more interested into putting him on the floor,albet without any purpose ,than playing him as PG.

Basically he is off ball SF and nothing else, or at least that's a role he has been playing whole year long.

For instance, he only was part of 35 pick&rolls as handler whole season.

There is also potential conflict of interest heading into next season. If you want to win games and do something, playing Black exstended min probably won't help you. Also if you elect to go through with that plan, you can easly have season worst than current one. Is that bad message to send to Franz and Paolo? That you are not seeking for any roster improvment and just take them for granted?

I don't know. Players aren't idiots, if you are Franz at least part of your brain already figured Dennis Schroder is best PG you ever played with yet that guy is nba backup. So why your team isn't doing more to actually find better PGs, if you know how important it is for a team to have one?


Somebody posted how Franz- Paolo pass more to each other than the others. It means several things like: great chemistry, good feeling for a game, but it also shows how they trust more in each other than they trust the other players on a roster. And you can't really blame them.
You pass to Fultz outside 12 feet and he just dribbles it out. You pass Suggs and if it's not catch& shoot it's normally instant bad decision in making, you pass to Isaac or Okeke or Houstan and nobody recives ball back ( 0,5 assists a game ), you pass it to Black and he just passes out of everything.

I'm really looking forward to playin & playoffs to see how our players react when somebody puts defensive effort on our limited offensive creativity. I think it will be telling and very helpful going forward, and help make roster decisions.

Absolutely! Agree 100%. People mockingly refer to “Buddy Ball” like it was Vuc & Fournier’s fault that there weren’t any other trusted offensive players on the court with them. This rendition is more effective but has the same low ceiling. Playoffs will likely be somewhat disheartening. I expect and hope we’ll skip the play-in so we can watch more than a one-game playoff story.

[Skybox]

I don't think this is the critique of Black you think it is.

Ok I want to clear up some misconceptions here...

I like Anthony Black.

I think he's a good prospect. I like his size. I like his quick hands. I like his quick feet. I think he has FANTASTIC defensive potential which is valuable and something a lot of people don't put enough stock into when making evaluations.

But right now he doesn't do anything offensively.

He barely shoots.

He barely dribbles.

Most possessions he runs over to a corner and just stands and if a pass doesn't come his way he just runs back the other direction. And if a pass does come his way, he doesn't shoot unless he's absolutely wide open.

I don't know if that is specifically how they're asking him to play or if it's just in his nature to assume a complimentary role. My sense is that it's more of the latter since he was a low usage player (comparatively speaking) in college and even back to high school.

There has been basically zero meaningful on ball reps out of him in the entire season and the dude has played almost 1000 minutes.

To assume he could even possibly be the starting point guard for this team as early as next season just feels insane to me.

Every minute Black plays is another minute where Franz and Paolo are the defacto point guards.

Now if the argument is "good, that's ultimately what we want" then so be it. But if all you want out of your point guard is a catch-and-shoot guy offensively who defends at a high level, then go out and get an actual elite shooter, ya know?

Me too. On the nose…and it’s not the same situation as Fultz at all.

[The-Stallion70]

Is Black's usage low mainly because of "fit" or because we have so many other scoring options as others have suggested on here? This implies that Black would be putting up way bigger numbers on another team.

Or is it low because the guy really cant shoot the ball and for a guard who is playing point and typically has the ball way above the three point line and trying to attack in a 24 second shot clock, this is way bigger problem.

I don't buy the argument that he has to sacrifice his offense when our team is 24th in offensive efficiency. It's not like we are holding back Tracy mcGrady here, who still got 15 a game playing next to Vince in Toronto.

[The-Stallion70]

Now if the argument is "good, that's ultimately what we want" then so be it. But if all you want out of your point guard is a catch-and-shoot guy offensively who defends at a high level, then go out and get an actual elite shooter, ya know?

Yup and we also didn't need to use THE SIXTH PICK on an Alex Caruso clone.

[Bakomagic]

Now if the argument is "good, that's ultimately what we want" then so be it. But if all you want out of your point guard is a catch-and-shoot guy offensively who defends at a high level, then go out and get an actual elite shooter, ya know?

Yup and we also didn't need to use THE SIXTH PICK on an Alex Caruso clone.

Haha, it’s too early for this talk, Caruso is old enough to collect social security, AB can even legally drink.

[basketballRob]

Yep, he just turned 20 and has played a role on our best team in over a decade.

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[CocoaFan]

Who does Jalen Suggs for Jalen Green straight up? I know most of you will have a knee jerk no and I'm not sure I would do it either but it sure is a better fit for our roster where we are grooming Black to be our starting PG. I just don't see the long term fit with Suggs at the SG and Black as the PG. Green would bring that potential 3rd scoring threat we desperately need. Just spit balling.

[Residual-Heat]

Who does Jalen Suggs for Jalen Green straight up? I know most of you will have a knee jerk no and I'm not sure I would do it either but it sure is a better fit for our roster where we are grooming Black to be our starting PG. I just don't see the long term fit with Suggs at the SG and Black as the PG. Green would bring that potential 3rd scoring threat we desperately need. Just spit balling.

why dont you see them being a long term fit?

That trade is an easy no for me. Suggs is the right fit at SG with Paolo and Franz, and a better fit for them than Green. The question is whether or not Black is the right fit, and whether he'll ever even be a starting PG. We need to find a way to get a starting PG immediately and let Black be the back up. In time, maybe Black can prove himself to be a starer.

[MasterGMer]

I really think AB is coming along especially after Cavs game. He showed his aggressiveness. But the thing is he needs to do it more. Right now he has a non all rookie performance. And our expectations are higher. I hope he develops and I believe he will be a good player


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[eyriq]

I really think AB is coming along especially after Cavs game. He showed his aggressiveness. But the thing is he needs to do it more. Right now he has a non all rookie performance. And our expectations are higher. I hope he develops and I believe he will be a good player


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A subplot to this final stretch is AB doing enough to jump onto an all-rookie team.

[Knightro]

Is Black's usage low mainly because of "fit" or because we have so many other scoring options as others have suggested on here? This implies that Black would be putting up way bigger numbers on another team.

Or is it low because the guy really cant shoot the ball and for a guard who is playing point and typically has the ball way above the three point line and trying to attack in a 24 second shot clock, this is way bigger problem.

I don't buy the argument that he has to sacrifice his offense when our team is 24th in offensive efficiency. It's not like we are holding back Tracy mcGrady here, who still got 15 a game playing next to Vince in Toronto.

I agree with this.

Black averaged 13.5 PPG, 4.0 APG as a high school senior and 12.8 PPG and 3.9 APG as a college freshman.

It stands to reason that there is NOT some big scorer or big assist guy who simply isn't getting an opportunity in there.

He's always been a complimentary kind of player, which is ultimately what he's very, very likely to end up being here.

And yes, I know they had a long winning streak this year with Black starting, but that's more outlier than reality.

It's incredibly difficult to have success offensively when one of your guards has a usage rate under 15%. It's basically 4 on 5.

[Knightro]

A subplot to this final stretch is AB doing enough to jump onto an all-rookie team.

The odds of that happening?

Watch on YouTube

[zaymon]

In the end it will be Suggs OR Black or neither of them starting.
Black skill level is dissapointing, but man the way he moves at his size is hypnotising. Not JI level, but close to Suggs and he is bigger.

[CocoaFan]

Who does Jalen Suggs for Jalen Green straight up? I know most of you will have a knee jerk no and I'm not sure I would do it either but it sure is a better fit for our roster where we are grooming Black to be our starting PG. I just don't see the long term fit with Suggs at the SG and Black as the PG. Green would bring that potential 3rd scoring threat we desperately need. Just spit balling.

why dont you see them being a long term fit?

That trade is an easy no for me. Suggs is the right fit at SG with Paolo and Franz, and a better fit for them than Green. The question is whether or not Black is the right fit, and whether he'll ever even be a starting PG. We need to find a way to get a starting PG immediately and let Black be the back up. In time, maybe Black can prove himself to be a starer.

I'm looking at it that I think Green will develop into an elite scorer and Black could make up for the lost defense with Suggs. I think we need 1 more elite offensive player and I don't see Suggs or Black ever developing into that. I can't argue that it may be Black we need to replace and not Suggs.

[The-Stallion70]

Now if the argument is "good, that's ultimately what we want" then so be it. But if all you want out of your point guard is a catch-and-shoot guy offensively who defends at a high level, then go out and get an actual elite shooter, ya know?

Yup and we also didn't need to use THE SIXTH PICK on an Alex Caruso clone.

Haha, it’s too early for this talk, Caruso is old enough to collect social security, AB can even legally drink.

It isn't too early buddy, Killian Hayes got waived by his team.

Teams have to see returns from lottery picks so try to learn something.

[The-Stallion70]

man, paolo and franz have spoiled people man.....most rookies don't really provide a lot of impact in year 1....expecting more from a backup? all those players you mentioned played more minutes than black....2 out of the 3 of those guys played at least 80 games in their rookie season, black won't....not exactly apples to apples

A backup who was THE SIXTH PICK

you seem to have forgot that part

not really, my expectations are for any rookie is to just show flashes....AB has done that so far i can't complain....i just wish we see him play more and not be victim to dnp's....can't speak for anyone else but i can't be so definitive in year 1...there's so much more work and time ahead of the kid it's not even funny....thankfully enough he's one of those guys that's always in the gym, i'm good with what i've seen so far he's building a good foundation

Man people are just suckers for pain

Don't look now kiddo but there are plenty of rookies this season who are doing much more than just "showing flashes" and many of them were taken much lower than 6th as well.

Lively in Dallas, Jaquez, Miller and Wemby just off the top of my head.

Black's winshares number is in the middle of the pack and this is really only because he has shared the court with our stars.

[basketballRob]

Is Black's usage low mainly because of "fit" or because we have so many other scoring options as others have suggested on here? This implies that Black would be putting up way bigger numbers on another team.

Or is it low because the guy really cant shoot the ball and for a guard who is playing point and typically has the ball way above the three point line and trying to attack in a 24 second shot clock, this is way bigger problem.

I don't buy the argument that he has to sacrifice his offense when our team is 24th in offensive efficiency. It's not like we are holding back Tracy mcGrady here, who still got 15 a game playing next to Vince in Toronto.

I agree with this.

Black averaged 13.5 PPG, 4.0 APG as a high school senior and 12.8 PPG and 3.9 APG as a college freshman.

It stands to reason that there is NOT some big scorer or big assist guy who simply isn't getting an opportunity in there.

He's always been a complimentary kind of player, which is ultimately what he's very, very likely to end up being here.

And yes, I know they had a long winning streak this year with Black starting, but that's more outlier than reality.

It's incredibly difficult to have success offensively when one of your guards has a usage rate under 15%. It's basically 4 on 5.

He averaged over 20 ppg when he was the EYBL MVP.

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[RookieStar]

Who does Jalen Suggs for Jalen Green straight up? I know most of you will have a knee jerk no and I'm not sure I would do it either but it sure is a better fit for our roster where we are grooming Black to be our starting PG. I just don't see the long term fit with Suggs at the SG and Black as the PG. Green would bring that potential 3rd scoring threat we desperately need. Just spit balling.

Jalen Green isn't even a top-10 pick in a redraft in his class. Dude is an inefficient chucker that really hasn't shown much improvement compared to Suggs. Every year Suggs improves and it shows in the numbers and games