Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII

woosah · Post #1041 » by **woosah** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:52 pm

Tayswagzzz wrote:Could we be looking at the possibility of acquiring Shumpert? Think he'd be a good fit.

I would like this too. I can't believe NY is really looking to move him. Hopefully Henny is working on it.

OrlandO · Post #1042 » by **OrlandO** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:53 pm

Afflalo is the only player I wouldn't mind keeping. Nelson, although I appreciate his loyalty, continues to drop off and he's as inconsistent as ever. I also like Big Baby's toughness and hustle, but I'm concerned about his fitness/skillset as he ages... he will be 30 in a couple years and I feel he'll drop off very quickly around then. Afflalo is a good shooter and doesn't require athleticism to contribute. Of course, keeping or moving him will highly depend on where we put dipo and who we draft next summer...

Neon1 · Post #1043 » by **Neon1** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:55 pm

Orlwillbeback wrote:Hark's per game averages suck because his usage has actually dropped from 14.5 to 13.5 this year.

USG% Only effects your FGA,3PA, FTA, AST, TOV and thus your PPG.

the difference between 14.5% and 13.5 is very minimal.

12-13 PER36
11.4ppg 6.1rpg 0.9apg 1.6spg 1.1bpg 1.3tov 2.6fpg (14.5%, 10.3fga, 2.1three, 2.3fta)
13-14 PER36
11.8ppg 4.8rpg 0.8apg 1.9spg 0.4bpg 1.7tov 2.5fpg (13.5%, 8.8fga, 2.3three, 3.8fta)
13-14 PER36 *with adjusting his usg% to 14.5%
12.6ppg 4.8rpg 0.9apg 1.9apg 0.4bpg 1.8tov 2.5fpg (14.5%, 9.5fga, 2.5three, 4.1fta)

As you can see, Offensively, he is exactly the same guy as last year. Technically, he is actually a little better. Harkless regressed on the effort/hustle/mental side of things. Even if you believe remotely in PER....Last year he had a PER of 12.5, This year is its...12.5

Orlwillbeback · Post #1044 » by **Orlwillbeback** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:01 pm

Neon1 wrote:
Orlwillbeback wrote:Hark's per game averages suck because his usage has actually dropped from 14.5 to 13.5 this year.

USG% Only effects your FGA,3PA, FTA, AST, TOV and thus your PPG.

the difference between 14.5% and 13.5 is very minimal.

12-13 PER36
11.4ppg 6.1rpg 0.9apg 1.6spg 1.1bpg 1.3tov 2.6fpg (14.5%, 10.3fga, 2.1three, 2.3fta)
13-14 PER36
11.8ppg 4.8rpg 0.8apg 1.9spg 0.4bpg 1.7tov 2.5fpg (13.5%, 8.8fga, 2.3three, 3.8fta)
12.6ppg 4.8rpg 0.9apg 1.9apg 0.4bpg 1.8tov 2.5fpg (14.5%, 9.5fga, 2.5three, 4.1fta)
^^^^This is what he would be this year with an adjusted usage back up to 14.5%.

As you can see, Offensively, he is exactly the same guy as last year. Technically, he is actually a little better. Harkless regressed on the effort/hustle/mental side of things.

Right I moreso made this comment in response to those who say Harkless regressed this year.

He is getting less rebounds, but it worth noting that he is playing alongside better rebounders too. Oladipo and Nicholson are much better rebounders than he was playing with last year. Right now the Magic are one of the best rebounding teams in the nba.

I still think we need to see how harkless performs with 20 usage before we write him off. His improvement in ts is encouraging.

Neon1 · Post #1045 » by **Neon1** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:06 pm

Orlwillbeback wrote:He is getting less rebounds, but it worth noting that he is playing alongside better rebounders too. Oladipo and Nicholson are much better rebounders than he was playing with last year. Right now the Magic are one of the best rebounding teams in the nba.

I still think we need to see how harkless performs with 20 usage before we write him off. His improvement in ts is encouraging.

He has regressed. Not in skills, they are basically exactly the same. His EFFORT has regressed. The he isn't rebounding because of better rebounders is BS. Afflalo, Oladipo and even Jameer are rebounding just fine. He isn't rebounding simply because he just isn't rebounding. He isn't trying too. He is BARELY outrebounding our Point guard (Meer). All of his issues have been effort related. His actual defense (not splash plays, defense) has not been too hot either (for a guy that is being touted as his defense being his calling card).

Catledge · Post #1046 » by **Catledge** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:10 pm

People who say that we need to be realistic about what we have seem to feel no need to be realistic about the draft. The chances that even a top-5 pick becomes a superstar are small, and the chances are even smaller that a pick after 20 will be better than the players already in our rotation.

Orlwillbeback · Post #1047 » by **Orlwillbeback** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:16 pm

Neon1 wrote:
Orlwillbeback wrote:He is getting less rebounds, but it worth noting that he is playing alongside better rebounders too. Oladipo and Nicholson are much better rebounders than he was playing with last year. Right now the Magic are one of the best rebounding teams in the nba.

I still think we need to see how harkless performs with 20 usage before we write him off. His improvement in ts is encouraging.

He has regressed. Not in skills, they are basically exactly the same. His EFFORT has regressed. The he isn't rebounding because of better rebounders is BS. Afflalo, Oladipo and even Jameer are rebounding just fine. He isn't rebounding simply because he just isn't rebounding. He isn't trying too. He is BARELY outrebounding our Point guard (Meer). All of his issues have been effort related. His actual defense (not splash plays, defense) has not been too hot either (for a guy that is being touted as his defense being his calling card).

I agree that his defense has been bad. He doesn't seem very laterally quick.

rcklsscognition · Post #1048 » by **rcklsscognition** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:17 pm

Catledge wrote:People who say that we need to be realistic about what we have seem to feel no need to be realistic about the draft. The chances that even a top-5 pick becomes a superstar are small, and the chances are even smaller that a pick after 20 will be better than the players already in our rotation.

The chances go up and down each draft. They are way up this year.

Post #1049 » by **Def Swami** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:19 pm

MellowRose wrote:I hate AA.

19.7 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.4 apg, shooting 45% from the field and 47% from 3 and has PER of 18.48. Why we hating on Afflalo? :dontknow:

rcklsscognition · Post #1050 » by **rcklsscognition** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:23 pm

Def Swami wrote:
MellowRose wrote:I hate AA.

19.7 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.4 apg, shooting 45% from the field and 47% from 3 and has PER of 18.48. Why we hating on Afflalo?

I don't remember anyone here hating Afflalo for any reason other than that he is good and taking minutes away from other players.

Neon1 · Post #1051 » by **Neon1** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:25 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:
Def Swami wrote:
MellowRose wrote:I hate AA.

19.7 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.4 apg, shooting 45% from the field and 47% from 3 and has PER of 18.48. Why we hating on Afflalo?

I don't remember anyone here hating Afflalo for any reason other than that he is good and taking minutes away from other players.

Besides the fact that he really is not taking them from anybody. Yes, it is silly.

rcklsscognition · Post #1052 » by **rcklsscognition** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:39 pm

Neon1 wrote:
rcklsscognition wrote:
Def Swami wrote:19.7 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.4 apg, shooting 45% from the field and 47% from 3 and has PER of 18.48. Why we hating on Afflalo?

I don't remember anyone here hating Afflalo for any reason other than that he is good and taking minutes away from other players.

Besides the fact that he really is not taking them from anybody. Yes, it is silly.

He's taking them from Oladipo and Harkless and when he returns, Lamb. We have plenty of guards, we don't have bigs because of injuries.

woosah · Post #1053 » by **woosah** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:53 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:He's taking them from Oladipo and Harkless and when he returns, Lamb. We have plenty of guards, we don't have bigs because of injuries.

aaaaand we come back around to tank vs not tank because it's not "their" minutes. He's better than all of them and should play over them, oh but we want to be bad...yadda yadda yadda. Round and round, round we go.

Neon1 · Post #1054 » by **Neon1** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:02 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:
Neon1 wrote:
rcklsscognition wrote:
I don't remember anyone here hating Afflalo for any reason other than that he is good and taking minutes away from other players.

Besides the fact that he really is not taking them from anybody. Yes, it is silly.

He's taking them from Oladipo and Harkless and when he returns, Lamb. We have plenty of guards, we don't have bigs because of injuries.

I like Lamb, but his talents are not overwhelming enough to be trading away proven GOOD talent "out of the way" for. Harkless at this point hasn't shown enough promise to move Afflalo out of the way for either, but that is more arguable at least.

There is a case you can make for Oladipo solely based on the size of the investment (2nd overall) that has been made by the organization on his behalf. As long as they are using Oladipo as a PG/SG Afflalo is not blocking his playing time.

Oladipo hasn't been getting high minutes because Vaughn is still playing Nelson higher minutes then has gotten during his career (up from 28.5-30.5), and he has still been giving E'Twaun Moore lots of playing time off the bench (22mpg).

The move to make, at least this season, is either trading Nelson, or decreasing his minutes and/orE'Twaun's minutes more to get Oladipo on the court more.

flying_mollusk · Post #1055 » by **flying_mollusk** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:54 pm

Tanking=intentionally losing. Ill repeat that this isnt tanking. It's adding as much youth talent as possible and letting the chips fall where they may.

I dont understand how people can make the same arguments against trading Afflalo as they did for not trading Redick. They are the same exact arguments. "Valuable vet to teach youngsters. What we get will be as good as Redick. Etc etc." Except nobody would be against that trade now.

The fact is management refused to do the same things when we had Dwight early on. They put tough guy vets around Dwight and we ended up not getting younger good prospects to surround him that could only be drafted high. Imagine if we had let the youth movement do its thing and gotten Paul or Williams in 2005. The Dwightmare never would have happened.

Orlwillbeback · Post #1056 » by **Orlwillbeback** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:13 pm

we **** need tobias

****

Post #1057 » by **Bensational** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:32 pm

Def Swami wrote:
MellowRose wrote:I hate AA.

19.7 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.4 apg, shooting 45% from the field and 47% from 3 and has PER of 18.48. Why we hating on Afflalo?

I don't mind AA, but the biggest disappointment is that those are his best numbers as a primary option on a rebuilding team. Whilst nobody else is offering anything better at the moment, at least we can all agree that Vuc/Nicholson/Harris/Oladipo have the potential to develop into bigger impact players.

Overall, I'm not too disappointed in the way minutes are being shared just yet. Although I can't lie, seeing MCW tear it up in a starter's role and keeping Philly legit definitely makes me wonder what Oladipo could do in a similar role.

OrlandoNed · Post #1058 » by **OrlandoNed** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:29 pm

Good news for us regarding the den/nyk pick! Javale McGee is out indefinitely with a stress fracture in his leg. Hate to sound happy for somebody's injury, but we might get another lotto pick.

rcklsscognition · Post #1059 » by **rcklsscognition** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:31 pm

Afflalo is one of the best players on our team, period. I'm not disputing that. I have said all along I think we got Afflalo 2 seasons too early. We won't need him till next year or the year after that realistically. By then we'll have to find someone like him that is younger or just resign him to a new contract. And I really don't want to get into paying veterans a lot of money on their last contracts.

It's a timing thing. I'd love to have a player like Afflalo on the team on 2015-2016 when we make our first push back into the playoffs.

What do we gain from Afflalo shooting the ball 15 times a game and scoring 20+ points a night, eating up 35MPG? Compare that to what we could gain from playing younger players in those minutes. Not talking about winning, but a) you potentially find a sleeper on your team and b) you speed up development and get to see tendencies of players develop. Harkless played a ton of minutes last year and that gave us a head start on projecting his career. That is valuable. You can use that information in trades and the draft to be a more efficient team.

j_n · Post #1060 » by **j_n** » Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:33 pm

OrlandoNed wrote:Good news for us regarding the den/nyk pick! Javale McGee is out indefinitely with a stress fracture in his leg. Hate to sound happy for somebody's injury, but we might get another lotto pick.

The Nuggets arent relevant anyomre, they looked terrible to start the season and they play in a tougher confrence.

Only if the Chandler takes his time coming back and the knicks lose Anthony for a while than we could hope for a lottery pick, otherwise the east is just too bad for them to miss the playoffs.