Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LIX Offseason Edition)

[rcklsscognition]

There's next to no time to improve. The guys have been off for about 2.5 months. They took some vacations probably after the season was over, probably got 2 months of decent work in. So there's like 6 of them there. They work on their physical bodies and then they get shots up. They're not running offensive sets, working on defense, etc. They're working on things they use in offense and defense, but not the whole thing. It's just not possible. There's not enough people around, not enough coaching, not enough time.

What did you expect to see out of Nicholson after 2-2.5 months? If there's something specific? How do you think he could have improved it so quickly over that time, by doing what?

There's just not really any way for someone to improve more than 1 or 2 parts of their game in the offseason. FT shooting, dribbling, strength, and conditioning are some of the few things that will improve over the summer. The other things you can work on, but if you're not simulating games, it's hard to get that work to translate. You can shoot 1,000 jumpers in the practice gym, but when you get on the court when you're getting pressed and bumped, it's just totally different.

So what we see from Nicholson is improved strength and conditioning. We would be wise to be realistic in how much a player can perform each season. They've been playing organized basketball with professional coaches for years. Looking ahead, how many progression cycles do Nicholson, Harkless, Oladipo, etc need to go through until they're on their level career path?

[rcklsscognition]

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video ... utube.html

Anyone see this video on CNN? It's an 8 year old girl dribbling really well. Then at the end, a hash tag comes up, something like #OrlandoMagicOnLineTwo.

[mattyBoi]

Some you all are judging Dipo's game wayyyyyyy too hard. Like its getting to the point where its becoming apparent that its straight up hating. This has played very well, showed elite defense, elite first step, great ballhandling, great ability to draw fouls, ability to rise up around the basket and make plays, confidence in his three and pullups off the dribble. I'm more than happy with what he's shown so far, dude is going to be a star. He is going to be included in the top half of Point Guards in his first year if he really does stay at the position.

[mattyBoi]

And you can definitely improve your game in 3 months. Improvement is fluid, it just happens, things click for you out of no where. You can improve your game at any time. And most definitely you can improve strength and build muscle in 3 months.

[rcklsscognition]

Top half of all NBA point guards in year one? What is the opposite word for hating to describe one's opinion?.

[The Real Dalic]

Some you all are judging Dipo's game wayyyyyyy too hard. Like its getting to the point where its becoming apparent that its straight up hating. This has played very well, showed elite defense, elite first step, great ballhandling, great ability to draw fouls, ability to rise up around the basket and make plays, confidence in his three and pullups off the dribble. I'm more than happy with what he's shown so far, dude is going to be a star. He is going to be included in the top half of Point Guards in his first year if he really does stay at the position.

I don't think anyone is hating or are being too hard on him. I disagree with some of them but its not hating.

But I think Dipos doing a great job at the 1 considering he's playing a position he's not entirely comfortable with.

Most rookies have a problem controlling the ball let alone controlling the tempo/rhythm of a game. It takes about half a season maybe more for most rookies to get a feel for the game (unless you're Jordan, James, Jabbar, Johnson, etc). IIRC, I remember Harkless saying late in the season that the game finally started slowing down for him.

I'm gonna give Dipo some time before I start criticizing his game.

[Hotshot Hower]

Top half of all NBA point guards in year one? What is the opposite word for hating to describe one's opinion?.

This is a fan forum board, this one in particular of the Orlando Magic.

We get it, you're a realist who likes to spread his/her logic who usually has their homer glasses off.

Though If I was a betting man and McLemore has a "solid 1st game" in Summler League, you'll be biased (just like a lot of us are regarding Oladipo) and be the first to bring that crap in here.

I understand your logic, I do. Though it's becoming a bit redundant to ALWAYS be on the opposite side of praise, more of the lines your thinking regarding Oladipo is usually "glass half-full" when other posters praise and yes, put Oladipo on a peadstool because of a small sample size (two Summer League games). We're FANS, that's we should do. That is, have hope, praise, overvalue, and have high expectations even it doesn't make sense (yet). In this instance, regarding Oladipo.

Love your insight, but just accept the majority that make bold assumptions/opinions even if they do seem pre-mature.

[Hotshot Hower]

Some you all are judging Dipo's game wayyyyyyy too hard. Like its getting to the point where its becoming apparent that its straight up hating. This has played very well, showed elite defense, elite first step, great ballhandling, great ability to draw fouls, ability to rise up around the basket and make plays, confidence in his three and pullups off the dribble. I'm more than happy with what he's shown so far, dude is going to be a star. He is going to be included in the top half of Point Guards in his first year if he really does stay at the position.

I don't think anyone is hating or are being too hard on him. I disagree with some of them but its not hating.

But I think Dipos doing a great job at the 1 considering he's playing a position he's not entirely comfortable with.

Most rookies have a problem controlling the ball let alone controlling the tempo/rhythm of a game. It takes about half a season maybe more for most rookies to get a feel for the game (unless you're Jordan, James, Jabbar, Johnson, etc). IIRC, I remember Harkless saying late in the season that the game finally started slowing down for him.

I'm gonna give Dipo some time before I start criticizing his game.

Indeed, well put. I think Dipo's ahead of the curve in terms of the demand/expectations/ample playing time he's getting. He's showing it, just not in all facets and on a consistent basis. Remember, it's TWO games.

Though if his shot's not falling (like against OKC) he does other things to be effective. He looked more controlled, didn't gamble as much, and got the team in it's sets more effectively.

To me, the coaches want to "push" him, but has a pretty long leash. Though at the same time, he's very critical of himself and after every post-game wants to look at film in regards to what he did effectively/non-effectively. In retrospect, it's very mature of him and the BIGGEST thing I've seen thus far is when something isn't working, he looks to be effective in some other facet of the game. He'll get more games under his belt which will improve his comfort/grasp of what he can do and what's eventually expected, but he's still at the crawling stage. Wait, until he starts walking.

[Blue_and_Whte]

on a scale of 1 to 10, imma give Oladipo a 6 for his play at the point since it's not his primary position..

I like that. So far he's been meh but I like that he contributes in other ways. (Getting to the line, defense)

[RYgoBOOM]

I watched the games for the first time and I was very impressed with the way Oladipo played at the point. Kids handle is a LOT better than people made it out to be.

[arkknight1988]

Jammer is bound to miss 20 games again this year. There will be plenty of chances for dipo

[magicsanta]

Am I the only one who believes that player developement is fundamentally different than tanking?

Player Developement is the combination of measures inteded to improve the players, with the ultimate goal of assembling a team that's capable of winning games, by improving its members individually. It's not the only thing it takes to build a contender, but it's prioritary for young crappy teams, at early stages of a rebuilding process, mainly because:

a) They don't have all the pieces yet and will likely deal some of their current players, hence optimizing the performace of the team as a whole is not prioritary over developing the players, especially those planned to be in the team's future;

b) who normally need to work on certain aspects of their games and have relatively big room for improvement because of their youth and inexperience, which emphasizes the importance and pertinence of player development.

However, if you're really good at player development, chances are your team will win more games, even if it's not its most direct goal -it is its ultimate goal-, if developing players didn't help teams win, it wouldn't make sense whatsoever.

Prioritizing PD over maximizing wins is one thing, that I'm all for at this stage, tanking (losing on purpose) is totally different and I'm against it.

[magicman112]

I watched the games for the first time and I was very impressed with the way Oladipo played at the point. Kids handle is a LOT better than people made it out to be.

Yes and his shot wasn't falling but he still managed to get into double figures by getting to the line. Which is something that was severely lacking last season.

[JBSouthpaw]

And you can definitely improve your game in 3 months. Improvement is fluid, it just happens, things click for you out of no where. You can improve your game at any time. And most definitely you can improve strength and build muscle in 3 months.

exactly. I lost 15lbs in 2 months while have a full time job. Actually dropped 20lbs, gained 5lbs of muscle.

Pro athletes should be doing 2-4 hours a day, 5 days a week outside of conditioning, honing their skills. MINIMUM.

so, 20 hours a week, for 10 weeks is 200 hours of working on your game. So I hope there would be SOME improvement.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I hoped Nicholson would be a little closer defensively he still needs so much work on it. At least he sucked a little less on Monday.

Me too. But the good news is it's early and he looked alot better yesterday. Still not hitting the glass like I thought he would.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Am I the only one who believes that player developement is fundamentally different than tanking?

Player Developement is the combination of measures inteded to improve the players, with the ultimate goal of assembling a team that's capable of winning games, by improving its members individually. It's not the only thing it takes to build a contender, but it's prioritary for young crappy teams, at early stages of a rebuilding process, mainly because:

a) They don't have all the pieces yet and will likely deal some of their current players, hence optimizing the performace of the team as a whole is not prioritary over developing the players, especially those planned to be in the team's future;

b) who normally need to work on certain aspects of their games and have relatively big room for improvement because of their youth and inexperience, which emphasizes the importance and pertinence of player development.

However, if you're really good at player development, chances are your team will win more games, even if it's not its most direct goal -it is its ultimate goal-, if developing players didn't help teams win, it wouldn't make sense whatsoever.

Prioritizing PD over maximizing wins is one thing, that I'm all for at this stage, tanking (losing on purpose) is totally different and I'm against it.

No. I said before the start of last season, and I quote "It's not tanking, it's developing young players. The result of that is losing alot of games." The coaches aren't telling the players to losing games on purpose.

[_DudeItsMagic_]

i think we can all agree that Oladipo after 2 games at PG is better than Duhon

[RYgoBOOM]

i think we can all agree that Oladipo after 2 games at PG is better than Duhon

So true

[backasswards]

I see Dipo as a Gilbert Arenas type.

[LBPTarHeel27]

I think it's time to merge every thread on the board in to here. It's getting tough to keep track of what thread each ignorant comment was made in. Let's consolidate...the same conversations are being had in every damn thread.