Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG

[pepe1991]

Gordon is odd case for sure.

On surcefe there is all the talent needed to become star but something is off. For longest time.

I don't agree that Magic are holding him back. When he is given reing, and that's the case last 2 years, he simply does not make team much better. Or better at all.

His strenghts suit him best for PF ,yet it seems like it's him who wants to play on perimeter. I think part of his staynig plan was to play on perimeter even more with Isaac.

That's why over 5 years we never saw him try, work or play like traditional big, or learning how to doanything postups ( and he probably should), but we see him in practice and during HT shooting fadeaway 2s and stepback 3s.
At some point you simply have to question his BBIQ and why it's so important to him how he "looks" while playing basketball instad of doing what actually works for him while playing basketball.

He wants to be that flashy star that does showoff dunks ( vs Pistons) and looks like Harden or George on the floor,when, in reality, he would probably look waaaay better and actually become star if he plays more like Giannis. Pure energy guy with impressiv stamina, leaping and lenght that simply overpoweres people with athletics and skill.

But nah, he elects style over substance. It took Griffin 8 years to finally figure that he sucks at long 2s and he should go back to basics . Postups, dunks and 3s. And nothing in between. Hopefully Gordon learns faster.

[Leopold Stoich]

Grant being bad should come to no surprise to anyone that has been watching our games and watched Grant in his previous years. It's tremendously upsetting to watch a FO continually not address the glaring issue at our PG position. Would it hurt to play Briscoe over Grant and see the experiment, probably not because it can't get any worse. My only gripe is that Briscoe probably doesn't have that many reps with our starters so chemistry could be rough. Grant and Bamba on the floor is an absolute eyesore, Bamba isn't a go-to offensive player for us but Jesus Christ, if I have to watch Grant dribble the soul out of the ball and watch Bamba PnR open all the way to the basket without him passing it to him, I might have a stroke. If WeHam doesn't address this soon, I'm going really dislike moving forward with them.

[VFX]

That’s kind of what I’m anticipating though. He will never be able to play up to his true potential here, and I think that ends up with us trading him for someone of lesser value while AG if traded to the right situation will blossom.

I really don’t get the “face of the franchise”. Like how do you figure? lol. He is still playing second fiddle to Vuc and Fournier. Claiming that he is that makes me think that we have also made some attempt to build around him and with the Isaac and Bamba picks you could much easier make the argument that we have done the opposite. Drafting DSJ, moving up to get Doncic, or trading for a PG would make me think we were building around him or trying to set him up for the most success.

Right now especially with how his deal is structured, I don’t think by any means he is viewed as a face of the franchise. He is much more a trade piece than anything.

While buddy ball is still prevalent here, AG is definitely the player with the most exposure in Orlando in all other areas. Other than with Ibaka, which wasn’t AGs best showing, he’s been featured in every lineup imaginable and given a healthy amount of minutes. Have the current and previous regimes given him the talent to feed off of? No. But to say he was undervalued isn’t true.

I’ve said it before and I’ll continue to say that trading AG would be a better move than keeping him due to the choices this current FO have made in regards to talent acquisition. He’s in the position now where his trade value return is greater than his production on the floor.

Let me ask you this, if you put him on a playoff team like Indiana or Utah right now and let him play off Mitchell or Dipo and next to very good role players do you think he would put up significantly better numbers and be viewed in a different light? I do, and I think many others do as well. That's why I say he is undervalued and unfairly criticized by a lot of this fanbase because in my eyes he has been held back in many ways by this awful roster and lack of PG play, and he gets judged a lot of times as if that hasn't been the case. I think AG could be extremely valuable to this team with the right pieces around him but unfortunately, we have failed to do that.

Yes. I think he thrives much more than playing with Orlando’s roster. I don’t disagree at all. However, you are 100% right that every management has completely failed to find that missing player/players to highlight what his strengths are. Current management drafts two bigs needing help offensively and perpetuates the glaring weaknesses this roster has had. Now here we are.

Anything holding back AG’s career can be blamed on the ineptitude of Orlando’s FO management, talent acquisition, and development. Like others have said, he’s a third or second option at best. I obviously haven’t been his biggest fan, but that probably is because I’ve always failed to see him as a number one option that has been asked to do more than he’s capable. Is that fair? No, but I can only judge what I’ve seen.

[Skin]

Gordon is odd case for sure.

On surcefe there is all the talent needed to become star but something is off. For longest time.

I don't agree that Magic are holding him back. When he is given reing, and that's the case last 2 years, he simply does not make team much better. Or better at all.

His strenghts suit him best for PF ,yet it seems like it's him who wants to play on perimeter. I think part of his staynig plan was to play on perimeter even more with Isaac.

That's why over 5 years we never saw him try, work or play like traditional big, or learning how to doanything postups ( and he probably should), but we see him in practice and during HT shooting fadeaway 2s and stepback 3s.
At some point you simply have to question his BBIQ and why it's so important to him how he "looks" while playing basketball instad of doing what actually works for him while playing basketball.

He wants to be that flashy star that does showoff dunks ( vs Pistons) and looks like Harden or George on the floor,when, in reality, he would probably look waaaay better and actually become star if he plays more like Giannis. Pure energy guy with impressiv stamina, leaping and lenght that simply overpoweres people with athletics and skill.

But nah, he elects style over substance. It took Griffin 8 years to finally figure that he sucks at long 2s and he should go back to basics . Postups, dunks and 3s. And nothing in between. Hopefully Gordon learns faster.

Well the Magic are not holding Evan and Vuc back. Are they making the team better?

Whenever AG has scored over 20 points we've won though. Maybe wins doesn't make the Magic better in your opinion. I dunno.

You can't expect him to have the desire to develop low post moves. He doesn't have the length or girth to pound inside. For that same reason, he has a better chance defending on the perimeter too. Giannis has an advantage with his length, so that's a bad example for him to try to mimick.

He's a dunker, but not a post up dunker who plays with his back to the basket. He's a transition dunker... a face to the basket dunker... a put back dunker. If he tried to mimick his game after Duncan, Aldridge, and Gasol type PFs, he'd be a flop. He has to be a guy that practices 3s. He can be the #3 option on a championship team similar to how Bosh, Love or Draymond have been with their ability to spread the floor and have other kinds of impacts in addition to that. But without the 3 ball, he's a bust. When Bosh and Love were with the Raptors and Wolves they were putting up huge numbers before they moved on to be glorified #3 options. That's what I want to see for AG here in Orlando. He can be a 20/8 guy... but not off 13-14 shots a game. In Minny, Love was getting 18-19 shots a game.

[IllMagic04]

all of us wants to see bamba play.

But there is also no denying that the more we lose, the harder it will be for the business side of things.

Why cant we add on what we have rather than replacing or taking it out? We did this with trading Tobias and Oladipo. And replaced those roles to increase usage of Gordon or Ibaka (eventually tRoss). Look what happened we had a setback and still have to recover.

Also, it not like Vuc has been the focal point of our offense since the beginning. Oladipo, Tobias, Afflalo were really the guys leading the charge.

Its just unfortunate that Vuc is our most reliable offensive player. Even Gordon puts up almost enough shots per game as Vuc but he cant even make shots as efficiently as Vuc does.

Leaders are neither born nor made, those who rise to the occassions are leaders.

There really has been no one else on our roster, outside of vuc and fournier, that has shown the capability to rise to the occassion consistently.

Is it because of the buddy ball usage thats why other players dont get opportunity? I doubt it. The past two years under Vogel, Gordon has been given the freedom to orchestrate the offense, and until now, those boneheaded plays are still what we see. Even Isaac have really been passive on offense, and to think people were making excuses for him during his college years that its because his coach preferred using Bacon. But until now...

bamba cant even protect the ball.

I like the future of Isaac and Bamba, but asking them to contribute on offense is, pun intended, a “long reach”.

we are going to lose anyway. That's what Im saying. If we continue to go at the pace we are going what are going win 33-35 games? What good is that? We need to find some direction. If the direction is for the core to be "B.I.G" then lets get that going. what are we waiting for? Im not really saying Vuc is the problem per say but right now it feels like he's in the way of the new direction. Your right Bamba and JI may not be offensive threats. In fact I don't think they will be. That's just bad drafting but that's a different topic but since we drafted them lets roll with them. Move on from Vuc and Evan, tank the rest of this season look to get a top5 pick and add some shooting/ playmaking in the draft and FA and now you have direction. Right now we have no direction

Im not sure if you can say that we have no direction or not. We already saw what happened last season with this roster, and we didnt really add to it. It seems to me that management is trying to subtlely tank. Also the NBA has started a crackdown on the sixers style of tanking.

Financially, it would hurt a lot on the business side of things to tank, getting endorsements or sponsorships would be really difficult.

We had a lot of injuries last year. Without those injuries we don't have Bamba right now.

[pepe1991]

Gordon is odd case for sure.

On surcefe there is all the talent needed to become star but something is off. For longest time.

I don't agree that Magic are holding him back. When he is given reing, and that's the case last 2 years, he simply does not make team much better. Or better at all.

His strenghts suit him best for PF ,yet it seems like it's him who wants to play on perimeter. I think part of his staynig plan was to play on perimeter even more with Isaac.

That's why over 5 years we never saw him try, work or play like traditional big, or learning how to doanything postups ( and he probably should), but we see him in practice and during HT shooting fadeaway 2s and stepback 3s.
At some point you simply have to question his BBIQ and why it's so important to him how he "looks" while playing basketball instad of doing what actually works for him while playing basketball.

He wants to be that flashy star that does showoff dunks ( vs Pistons) and looks like Harden or George on the floor,when, in reality, he would probably look waaaay better and actually become star if he plays more like Giannis. Pure energy guy with impressiv stamina, leaping and lenght that simply overpoweres people with athletics and skill.

But nah, he elects style over substance. It took Griffin 8 years to finally figure that he sucks at long 2s and he should go back to basics . Postups, dunks and 3s. And nothing in between. Hopefully Gordon learns faster.

Well the Magic are not holding Evan and Vuc back. Are they making the team better?

Whenever AG has scored over 20 points we've won though. Maybe wins doesn't make the Magic better in your opinion. I dunno.

You can't expect him to have the desire to develop low post moves. He doesn't have the length or girth to pound inside. For that same reason, he has a better chance defending on the perimeter too. Giannis has an advantage with his length, so that's a bad example for him to try to mimick.

He's a dunker, but not a post up dunker who plays with his back to the basket. He's a transition dunker... a face to the basket dunker... a put back dunker. If he tried to mimick his game after Duncan, Aldridge, and Gasol type PFs, he'd be a flop. He has to be a guy that practices 3s. He can be the #3 option on a championship team similar to how Bosh, Love or Draymond have been with their ability to spread the floor and have other kinds of impacts in addition to that. But without the 3 ball, he's a bust. When Bosh and Love were with the Raptors and Wolves they were putting up huge numbers before they moved on to be glorified #3 options. That's what I want to see for AG here in Orlando. He can be a 20/8 guy... but not off 13-14 shots a game. In Minny, Love was getting 18-19 shots a game.

Magic really don't hold anybody back, they probably should hold SImmons and Ross tho.

Last year he averaged 15 shots for 17 points.
This year there are players who average same amount of shots and score 20. So it's his problem, not problem of offense or lack of attemps. It's FTA and FTM that kept him from 20 points last year.
Hell there is even one rookie right now who scores 20 per game on 15 shots, but 5th year player can't. What does that tell you ?


http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/year/2018
you can see for yourself amount of FGA people who score 20ppg take, most of them don't shoot 19 per game.
Butler shot like 0,4 shots more and averaged 5 ppg more because he draw enough fouls.

Vast majority of nba players can be 20 ppg players on enough shots. That's not the point of basketball as team sport. Goal is to win games and if that empty stats don't translate they are not worth taking. Simple as that.

Whole bulk thing, he weights 225 pounds allegedly, that's same weight as 6'3 prime Dwayne Wade. Should bulk up anyway.

[Skin]

Gordon is odd case for sure.

On surcefe there is all the talent needed to become star but something is off. For longest time.

I don't agree that Magic are holding him back. When he is given reing, and that's the case last 2 years, he simply does not make team much better. Or better at all.

His strenghts suit him best for PF ,yet it seems like it's him who wants to play on perimeter. I think part of his staynig plan was to play on perimeter even more with Isaac.

That's why over 5 years we never saw him try, work or play like traditional big, or learning how to doanything postups ( and he probably should), but we see him in practice and during HT shooting fadeaway 2s and stepback 3s.
At some point you simply have to question his BBIQ and why it's so important to him how he "looks" while playing basketball instad of doing what actually works for him while playing basketball.

He wants to be that flashy star that does showoff dunks ( vs Pistons) and looks like Harden or George on the floor,when, in reality, he would probably look waaaay better and actually become star if he plays more like Giannis. Pure energy guy with impressiv stamina, leaping and lenght that simply overpoweres people with athletics and skill.

But nah, he elects style over substance. It took Griffin 8 years to finally figure that he sucks at long 2s and he should go back to basics . Postups, dunks and 3s. And nothing in between. Hopefully Gordon learns faster.

Well the Magic are not holding Evan and Vuc back. Are they making the team better?

Whenever AG has scored over 20 points we've won though. Maybe wins doesn't make the Magic better in your opinion. I dunno.

You can't expect him to have the desire to develop low post moves. He doesn't have the length or girth to pound inside. For that same reason, he has a better chance defending on the perimeter too. Giannis has an advantage with his length, so that's a bad example for him to try to mimick.

He's a dunker, but not a post up dunker who plays with his back to the basket. He's a transition dunker... a face to the basket dunker... a put back dunker. If he tried to mimick his game after Duncan, Aldridge, and Gasol type PFs, he'd be a flop. He has to be a guy that practices 3s. He can be the #3 option on a championship team similar to how Bosh, Love or Draymond have been with their ability to spread the floor and have other kinds of impacts in addition to that. But without the 3 ball, he's a bust. When Bosh and Love were with the Raptors and Wolves they were putting up huge numbers before they moved on to be glorified #3 options. That's what I want to see for AG here in Orlando. He can be a 20/8 guy... but not off 13-14 shots a game. In Minny, Love was getting 18-19 shots a game.

Magic really don't hold anybody back, they probably should hold SImmons and Ross tho.

Last year he averaged 15 shots for 17 points.
This year there are players who average same amount of shots and score 20. So it's his problem, not problem of offense or lack of attemps. It's FTA and FTM that kept him from 20 points last year.
Hell there is even one rookie right now who scores 20 per game on 15 shots, but 5th year player can't. What does that tell you ?


http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/year/2018
you can see for yourself amount of FGA people who score 20ppg take, most of them don't shoot 19 per game.
Butler shot like 0,4 shots more and averaged 5 ppg more because he draw enough fouls.

Vast majority of nba players can be 20 ppg players on enough shots. That's not the point of basketball as team sport. Goal is to win games and if that empty stats don't translate they are not worth taking. Simple as that.

Whole bulk thing, he weights 225 pounds allegedly, that's same weight as 6'3 prime Dwayne Wade. Should bulk up anyway.

The goal isn't to win games all the time. It shouldn't be our goal right now.

Look at Dallas... They are about to have Smith, Doncic and another Top 3 pick. CLE is gonna get the #1 or #2 pick and be right back at getting a new Superstar. We are going end up picking 7-9 and hoping another project develops in 3-5 years.

We are in the epitome of NBA abyss.

We need to be developing stars first and foremost. I don't care if AG isn't the most efficient player shooting the ball. We knew he needed to develop that part of his game. It's too be expected. But he also needs to develop a killer mentality and constantly attack. That comes when nothing is in your way. Like T-Mac when he first got here. AG doesn't need to play 3rd fiddle behind Evan and Vuc because they were the first vets to establish themselves here before him.

[Blue_and_Whte]

The photo and the video from the Lowe post are excellent.



It's like having EP back!*

*Disclaimer: This comment applies only to the specific scenario shown in the above photo. Any other interpretations of this comparison are not allowed.

Might be a better play just to let him chuck open threes than to let him try to facilitate...

I thought we were done with a PG that dribbles the air out of the ball but nope. He'll just dribble away seconds off the shot clock.

Both Grant and Simmons dribble for about 10 seconds before actually doing anything. Why is Simmons still here? I dont know man. There is a lot of talent at the top of this draft and I want in on that. I dont know how I would handle us picking 6th again and drafting a third straight role player to add to our team of role players. This has to be known to our FO.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Well the Magic are not holding Evan and Vuc back. Are they making the team better?

Whenever AG has scored over 20 points we've won though. Maybe wins doesn't make the Magic better in your opinion. I dunno.

You can't expect him to have the desire to develop low post moves. He doesn't have the length or girth to pound inside. For that same reason, he has a better chance defending on the perimeter too. Giannis has an advantage with his length, so that's a bad example for him to try to mimick.

He's a dunker, but not a post up dunker who plays with his back to the basket. He's a transition dunker... a face to the basket dunker... a put back dunker. If he tried to mimick his game after Duncan, Aldridge, and Gasol type PFs, he'd be a flop. He has to be a guy that practices 3s. He can be the #3 option on a championship team similar to how Bosh, Love or Draymond have been with their ability to spread the floor and have other kinds of impacts in addition to that. But without the 3 ball, he's a bust. When Bosh and Love were with the Raptors and Wolves they were putting up huge numbers before they moved on to be glorified #3 options. That's what I want to see for AG here in Orlando. He can be a 20/8 guy... but not off 13-14 shots a game. In Minny, Love was getting 18-19 shots a game.

Magic really don't hold anybody back, they probably should hold SImmons and Ross tho.

Last year he averaged 15 shots for 17 points.
This year there are players who average same amount of shots and score 20. So it's his problem, not problem of offense or lack of attemps. It's FTA and FTM that kept him from 20 points last year.
Hell there is even one rookie right now who scores 20 per game on 15 shots, but 5th year player can't. What does that tell you ?


http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/year/2018
you can see for yourself amount of FGA people who score 20ppg take, most of them don't shoot 19 per game.
Butler shot like 0,4 shots more and averaged 5 ppg more because he draw enough fouls.

Vast majority of nba players can be 20 ppg players on enough shots. That's not the point of basketball as team sport. Goal is to win games and if that empty stats don't translate they are not worth taking. Simple as that.

Whole bulk thing, he weights 225 pounds allegedly, that's same weight as 6'3 prime Dwayne Wade. Should bulk up anyway.

The goal isn't to win games all the time. It shouldn't be our goal right now.

Look at Dallas... They are about to have Smith, Doncic and another Top 3 pick. CLE is gonna get the #1 or #2 pick and be right back at getting a new Superstar. We are going end up picking 7-9 and hoping another project develops in 3-5 years.

We are in the epitome of NBA abyss.

We need to be developing stars first and foremost. I don't care if AG isn't the most efficient player shooting the ball. We knew he needed to develop that part of his game. It's too be expected. But he also needs to develop a killer mentality and constantly attack. That comes when nothing is in your way. Like T-Mac when he first got here. AG doesn't need to play 3rd fiddle behind Evan and Vuc because they were the first vets to establish themselves here before him.

AG absolutely needs to play third fiddle because hes a bad one on one scorer. However, in an effort to try and land a franchise player I be willing to put up with his terrible one on one play. I think im jumping on the tank with whomever is there. I find myself already thinking ahead to the draft and caring more about seeing how bamba and AG play than wins.

[magicman112]

Might be a better play just to let him chuck open threes than to let him try to facilitate...

I thought we were done with a PG that dribbles the air out of the ball but nope. He'll just dribble away seconds off the shot clock.

Both Grant and Simmons dribble for about 10 seconds before actually doing anything. Why is Simmons still here? I dont know man. There is a lot of talent at the top of this draft and I want in on that. I dont know how I would handle us picking 6th again and drafting a third straight role player to add to our team of role players. This has to be known to our FO.

I was glad to get Simmons initially. He had played well for the Spurs and the contract he got was economical and he showed some promise last season but this year he's just taken a nose dive. Trying to create his own And-1 Mixtape out there. When he plays within himself and doesn't try to be the second coming he can do well. As far as the FO goes seems like they're waiting for something to happen instead of making things happen.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I thought we were done with a PG that dribbles the air out of the ball but nope. He'll just dribble away seconds off the shot clock.

Both Grant and Simmons dribble for about 10 seconds before actually doing anything. Why is Simmons still here? I dont know man. There is a lot of talent at the top of this draft and I want in on that. I dont know how I would handle us picking 6th again and drafting a third straight role player to add to our team of role players. This has to be known to our FO.

I was glad to get Simmons initially. He had played well for the Spurs and the contract he got was economical and he showed some promise last season but this year he's just taken a nose dive. Trying to create his own And-1 Mixtape out there. When he plays within himself and doesn't try to be the second coming he can do well. As far as the FO goes seems like they're waiting for something to happen instead of making things happen.

We can only guess at what they're doing. Maybe they think we're already bad enough to get a high pick. I'd like to think that they're busy on the phones. I just they are exploring deals, that they're not looking to try to revive our season. I hope its a full on dedication to our younger guys and the draft. Tired of this kinda tanking kinda not mess we've got going on.

[tiderulz]

Gordon is odd case for sure.

On surcefe there is all the talent needed to become star but something is off. For longest time.

I don't agree that Magic are holding him back. When he is given reing, and that's the case last 2 years, he simply does not make team much better. Or better at all.

His strenghts suit him best for PF ,yet it seems like it's him who wants to play on perimeter. I think part of his staynig plan was to play on perimeter even more with Isaac.

That's why over 5 years we never saw him try, work or play like traditional big, or learning how to doanything postups ( and he probably should), but we see him in practice and during HT shooting fadeaway 2s and stepback 3s.
At some point you simply have to question his BBIQ and why it's so important to him how he "looks" while playing basketball instad of doing what actually works for him while playing basketball.

He wants to be that flashy star that does showoff dunks ( vs Pistons) and looks like Harden or George on the floor,when, in reality, he would probably look waaaay better and actually become star if he plays more like Giannis. Pure energy guy with impressiv stamina, leaping and lenght that simply overpoweres people with athletics and skill.

But nah, he elects style over substance. It took Griffin 8 years to finally figure that he sucks at long 2s and he should go back to basics . Postups, dunks and 3s. And nothing in between. Hopefully Gordon learns faster.

Well the Magic are not holding Evan and Vuc back. Are they making the team better?

Whenever AG has scored over 20 points we've won though. Maybe wins doesn't make the Magic better in your opinion. I dunno.

You can't expect him to have the desire to develop low post moves. He doesn't have the length or girth to pound inside. For that same reason, he has a better chance defending on the perimeter too. Giannis has an advantage with his length, so that's a bad example for him to try to mimick.

He's a dunker, but not a post up dunker who plays with his back to the basket. He's a transition dunker... a face to the basket dunker... a put back dunker. If he tried to mimick his game after Duncan, Aldridge, and Gasol type PFs, he'd be a flop. He has to be a guy that practices 3s. He can be the #3 option on a championship team similar to how Bosh, Love or Draymond have been with their ability to spread the floor and have other kinds of impacts in addition to that. But without the 3 ball, he's a bust. When Bosh and Love were with the Raptors and Wolves they were putting up huge numbers before they moved on to be glorified #3 options. That's what I want to see for AG here in Orlando. He can be a 20/8 guy... but not off 13-14 shots a game. In Minny, Love was getting 18-19 shots a game.

Aaron scored 20+ 13 times last year. we lost 6 of those times.

[Skin]

Gordon is odd case for sure.

On surcefe there is all the talent needed to become star but something is off. For longest time.

I don't agree that Magic are holding him back. When he is given reing, and that's the case last 2 years, he simply does not make team much better. Or better at all.

His strenghts suit him best for PF ,yet it seems like it's him who wants to play on perimeter. I think part of his staynig plan was to play on perimeter even more with Isaac.

That's why over 5 years we never saw him try, work or play like traditional big, or learning how to doanything postups ( and he probably should), but we see him in practice and during HT shooting fadeaway 2s and stepback 3s.
At some point you simply have to question his BBIQ and why it's so important to him how he "looks" while playing basketball instad of doing what actually works for him while playing basketball.

He wants to be that flashy star that does showoff dunks ( vs Pistons) and looks like Harden or George on the floor,when, in reality, he would probably look waaaay better and actually become star if he plays more like Giannis. Pure energy guy with impressiv stamina, leaping and lenght that simply overpoweres people with athletics and skill.

But nah, he elects style over substance. It took Griffin 8 years to finally figure that he sucks at long 2s and he should go back to basics . Postups, dunks and 3s. And nothing in between. Hopefully Gordon learns faster.

Well the Magic are not holding Evan and Vuc back. Are they making the team better?

Whenever AG has scored over 20 points we've won though. Maybe wins doesn't make the Magic better in your opinion. I dunno.

You can't expect him to have the desire to develop low post moves. He doesn't have the length or girth to pound inside. For that same reason, he has a better chance defending on the perimeter too. Giannis has an advantage with his length, so that's a bad example for him to try to mimick.

He's a dunker, but not a post up dunker who plays with his back to the basket. He's a transition dunker... a face to the basket dunker... a put back dunker. If he tried to mimick his game after Duncan, Aldridge, and Gasol type PFs, he'd be a flop. He has to be a guy that practices 3s. He can be the #3 option on a championship team similar to how Bosh, Love or Draymond have been with their ability to spread the floor and have other kinds of impacts in addition to that. But without the 3 ball, he's a bust. When Bosh and Love were with the Raptors and Wolves they were putting up huge numbers before they moved on to be glorified #3 options. That's what I want to see for AG here in Orlando. He can be a 20/8 guy... but not off 13-14 shots a game. In Minny, Love was getting 18-19 shots a game.

Aaron scored 20+ 13 times last year. we lost 6 of those times.

Yeah, but we started tanking. We haven't started that yet.

[tiderulz]

Well the Magic are not holding Evan and Vuc back. Are they making the team better?

Whenever AG has scored over 20 points we've won though. Maybe wins doesn't make the Magic better in your opinion. I dunno.

You can't expect him to have the desire to develop low post moves. He doesn't have the length or girth to pound inside. For that same reason, he has a better chance defending on the perimeter too. Giannis has an advantage with his length, so that's a bad example for him to try to mimick.

He's a dunker, but not a post up dunker who plays with his back to the basket. He's a transition dunker... a face to the basket dunker... a put back dunker. If he tried to mimick his game after Duncan, Aldridge, and Gasol type PFs, he'd be a flop. He has to be a guy that practices 3s. He can be the #3 option on a championship team similar to how Bosh, Love or Draymond have been with their ability to spread the floor and have other kinds of impacts in addition to that. But without the 3 ball, he's a bust. When Bosh and Love were with the Raptors and Wolves they were putting up huge numbers before they moved on to be glorified #3 options. That's what I want to see for AG here in Orlando. He can be a 20/8 guy... but not off 13-14 shots a game. In Minny, Love was getting 18-19 shots a game.

Aaron scored 20+ 13 times last year. we lost 6 of those times.

Yeah, but we started tanking. We haven't started that yet.

3 of those losses were before new year.

[Skin]

Aaron scored 20+ 13 times last year. we lost 6 of those times.

Yeah, but we started tanking. We haven't started that yet.

3 of those losses were before new year.

Nice, we're showing progression this year!

[rcklsscognition]

That’s kind of what I’m anticipating though. He will never be able to play up to his true potential here, and I think that ends up with us trading him for someone of lesser value while AG if traded to the right situation will blossom.

I really don’t get the “face of the franchise”. Like how do you figure? lol. He is still playing second fiddle to Vuc and Fournier. Claiming that he is that makes me think that we have also made some attempt to build around him and with the Isaac and Bamba picks you could much easier make the argument that we have done the opposite. Drafting DSJ, moving up to get Doncic, or trading for a PG would make me think we were building around him or trying to set him up for the most success.

Right now especially with how his deal is structured, I don’t think by any means he is viewed as a face of the franchise. He is much more a trade piece than anything.

While buddy ball is still prevalent here, AG is definitely the player with the most exposure in Orlando in all other areas. Other than with Ibaka, which wasn’t AGs best showing, he’s been featured in every lineup imaginable and given a healthy amount of minutes. Have the current and previous regimes given him the talent to
feed off of? No. But to say he was undervalued isn’t true.

I’ve said it before and I’ll continue to say that trading AG would be a better move than keeping him due to the choices this current FO have made in regards to talent acquisition. He’s in the position now where his trade value return is greater than his production on the floor.

Let me ask you this, if you put him on a playoff team like Indiana or Utah right now and let him play off Mitchell or Dipo and next to very good role players do you think he would put up significantly better numbers and be viewed in a different light? I do, and I think many others do as well. That's why I say he is undervalued and unfairly criticized by a lot of this fanbase because in my eyes he has been held back in many ways by this awful roster and lack of PG play, and he gets judged a lot of times as if that hasn't been the case. I think AG could be extremely valuable to this team with the right pieces around him but unfortunately, we have failed to do that.

He might be worse. Better scorers would mean less shots for him. He'd probably put up 12-14 a game most nights.

[pepe1991]

Well the Magic are not holding Evan and Vuc back. Are they making the team better?

Whenever AG has scored over 20 points we've won though. Maybe wins doesn't make the Magic better in your opinion. I dunno.

You can't expect him to have the desire to develop low post moves. He doesn't have the length or girth to pound inside. For that same reason, he has a better chance defending on the perimeter too. Giannis has an advantage with his length, so that's a bad example for him to try to mimick.

He's a dunker, but not a post up dunker who plays with his back to the basket. He's a transition dunker... a face to the basket dunker... a put back dunker. If he tried to mimick his game after Duncan, Aldridge, and Gasol type PFs, he'd be a flop. He has to be a guy that practices 3s. He can be the #3 option on a championship team similar to how Bosh, Love or Draymond have been with their ability to spread the floor and have other kinds of impacts in addition to that. But without the 3 ball, he's a bust. When Bosh and Love were with the Raptors and Wolves they were putting up huge numbers before they moved on to be glorified #3 options. That's what I want to see for AG here in Orlando. He can be a 20/8 guy... but not off 13-14 shots a game. In Minny, Love was getting 18-19 shots a game.

Magic really don't hold anybody back, they probably should hold SImmons and Ross tho.

Last year he averaged 15 shots for 17 points.
This year there are players who average same amount of shots and score 20. So it's his problem, not problem of offense or lack of attemps. It's FTA and FTM that kept him from 20 points last year.
Hell there is even one rookie right now who scores 20 per game on 15 shots, but 5th year player can't. What does that tell you ?


http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/year/2018
you can see for yourself amount of FGA people who score 20ppg take, most of them don't shoot 19 per game.
Butler shot like 0,4 shots more and averaged 5 ppg more because he draw enough fouls.

Vast majority of nba players can be 20 ppg players on enough shots. That's not the point of basketball as team sport. Goal is to win games and if that empty stats don't translate they are not worth taking. Simple as that.

Whole bulk thing, he weights 225 pounds allegedly, that's same weight as 6'3 prime Dwayne Wade. Should bulk up anyway.

The goal isn't to win games all the time. It shouldn't be our goal right now.

Look at Dallas... They are about to have Smith, Doncic and another Top 3 pick. CLE is gonna get the #1 or #2 pick and be right back at getting a new Superstar. We are going end up picking 7-9 and hoping another project develops in 3-5 years.

We are in the epitome of NBA abyss.

We need to be developing stars first and foremost. I don't care if AG isn't the most efficient player shooting the ball. We knew he needed to develop that part of his game. It's too be expected. But he also needs to develop a killer mentality and constantly attack. That comes when nothing is in your way. Like T-Mac when he first got here. AG doesn't need to play 3rd fiddle behind Evan and Vuc because they were the first vets to establish themselves here before him.

Both Dallas and Cavs won rings in last 7 years. They are good to tank for next 5 years from what i care ( and probably their fans too ).
Magic don't tank. They didn't tank since 2012-13.
Because they don't tank they get average talents on draft that need years to develop into nba level players. Not stars, just nba level players.

I don't belive in killer mentality, killer insticts and such lables created by low quality talk shows of people who are "experts " in basketball by having fashion Institute of Technology college diploma( SA Smith ) or diploma in history ( Max Kellerman) or god forbid anything that Skip Clueless ever says or Shannon Sharpe, dude who said that he was horrible college student and admited that college was just gimmick to him.

Big Shot Bob once even mocked whole clutch thing after hitting game winner for Lakers

"If I hit it, we win; if I miss, y'all are going to blame the stars for losing the game anyway. There's no pressure on me."

[OrlandO]

Gordon is odd case for sure.

On surcefe there is all the talent needed to become star but something is off. For longest time.

I don't agree that Magic are holding him back. When he is given reing, and that's the case last 2 years, he simply does not make team much better. Or better at all.

His strenghts suit him best for PF ,yet it seems like it's him who wants to play on perimeter. I think part of his staynig plan was to play on perimeter even more with Isaac.

That's why over 5 years we never saw him try, work or play like traditional big, or learning how to doanything postups ( and he probably should), but we see him in practice and during HT shooting fadeaway 2s and stepback 3s.
At some point you simply have to question his BBIQ and why it's so important to him how he "looks" while playing basketball instad of doing what actually works for him while playing basketball.

He wants to be that flashy star that does showoff dunks ( vs Pistons) and looks like Harden or George on the floor,when, in reality, he would probably look waaaay better and actually become star if he plays more like Giannis. Pure energy guy with impressiv stamina, leaping and lenght that simply overpoweres people with athletics and skill.

But nah, he elects style over substance. It took Griffin 8 years to finally figure that he sucks at long 2s and he should go back to basics . Postups, dunks and 3s. And nothing in between. Hopefully Gordon learns faster.

Hennigan said a few years ago Gordon thinks of himself as a SF... and you can see that reflected in his play style in recent years. I think Clifford is trying to fix this.

[npiper17]

Well the Magic are not holding Evan and Vuc back. Are they making the team better?

Whenever AG has scored over 20 points we've won though. Maybe wins doesn't make the Magic better in your opinion. I dunno.

You can't expect him to have the desire to develop low post moves. He doesn't have the length or girth to pound inside. For that same reason, he has a better chance defending on the perimeter too. Giannis has an advantage with his length, so that's a bad example for him to try to mimick.

He's a dunker, but not a post up dunker who plays with his back to the basket. He's a transition dunker... a face to the basket dunker... a put back dunker. If he tried to mimick his game after Duncan, Aldridge, and Gasol type PFs, he'd be a flop. He has to be a guy that practices 3s. He can be the #3 option on a championship team similar to how Bosh, Love or Draymond have been with their ability to spread the floor and have other kinds of impacts in addition to that. But without the 3 ball, he's a bust. When Bosh and Love were with the Raptors and Wolves they were putting up huge numbers before they moved on to be glorified #3 options. That's what I want to see for AG here in Orlando. He can be a 20/8 guy... but not off 13-14 shots a game. In Minny, Love was getting 18-19 shots a game.

Magic really don't hold anybody back, they probably should hold SImmons and Ross tho.

Last year he averaged 15 shots for 17 points.
This year there are players who average same amount of shots and score 20. So it's his problem, not problem of offense or lack of attemps. It's FTA and FTM that kept him from 20 points last year.
Hell there is even one rookie right now who scores 20 per game on 15 shots, but 5th year player can't. What does that tell you ?


http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/year/2018
you can see for yourself amount of FGA people who score 20ppg take, most of them don't shoot 19 per game.
Butler shot like 0,4 shots more and averaged 5 ppg more because he draw enough fouls.

Vast majority of nba players can be 20 ppg players on enough shots. That's not the point of basketball as team sport. Goal is to win games and if that empty stats don't translate they are not worth taking. Simple as that.

Whole bulk thing, he weights 225 pounds allegedly, that's same weight as 6'3 prime Dwayne Wade. Should bulk up anyway.

The goal isn't to win games all the time. It shouldn't be our goal right now.

Look at Dallas... They are about to have Smith, Doncic and another Top 3 pick. CLE is gonna get the #1 or #2 pick and be right back at getting a new Superstar. We are going end up picking 7-9 and hoping another project develops in 3-5 years.

We are in the epitome of NBA abyss.

We need to be developing stars first and foremost. I don't care if AG isn't the most efficient player shooting the ball. We knew he needed to develop that part of his game. It's too be expected. But he also needs to develop a killer mentality and constantly attack. That comes when nothing is in your way. Like T-Mac when he first got here. AG doesn't need to play 3rd fiddle behind Evan and Vuc because they were the first vets to establish themselves here before him.

Dallas won’t have a top 3 pick this year. If it falls 1-5 it goes to the Hawks. It was part of the Doncic trade.

[Def Swami]

Austin Rivers trying to appeal to Weltman and Hammond; probably sees a starting opportunity in Orlando lol.

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