Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow!

[basketballRob]

If heard two people now make references to pirates when talking about Cole, due to his appearance. What's a good pirate nickname for him? Capt'n Cole. Calico Cole. Cole of Penzance.

https://images.app.goo.gl/URLMzyx7BVoEhcQo9


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[Skybox]

The problem with what you're saying pepe is the forum has been this inactive since we went on that hot streak and first made the playoffs back in 2019. The last two seasons since that moment have been as dead as I've ever seen it. I personally was apathetic to this team and could barely bring myself to watch a game past halftime, much less post on a nightly basis.

I know countless others who felt/feel the same way. Trading Vuc/Fournier/AG isn't what put the board into this state. Keeping that core together for so long and the ceiling of this team so low is what did.

When we add two top 10 picks and Isaac/Fultz to this group next year I expect more activity and excitement to return. Far more than we had during the last couple seasons of the core we traded away.

A mediocre treadmill team breeds even more inactivity than an awful rebuilding one. The latter at least gives some hope.

Also Reality...noone outside of this Forum cares one bit about this forum, particularly the ORL Magic

[drsd]

Also Reality...noone outside of this Forum cares one bit about this forum, particularly the ORL Magic

But we have Howard, and the rest of the board can't have him!


..

[RookieStar]

Also, let's be honest. How many people left the board because they just got sick of dealing with the ezzzp's and pepe's?

I stopped really posting and just came back because I was tired of the bickering and slugfest going on between posters and I couldnt even understand how it was related to the Magic anymore.

In my profile I "joined" 2009 but I was a lurker waaaaay longer than that. I was there when the Darko "fedex me a printer" thread first appeared as well as the founding of the Church (bandwagon) of Diener was first consecrated.

Then the bickering started with poster I never heard of and I stopped. Same when the Darko D-huggers and Vince fan boys invaded our board. Got tired reading of it.

Now that there are a few posters and this board somehow *cleaned* itself up (albeit with a few mud still present) Im back to posting lol

[Skin]

If heard two people now make references to pirates when talking about Cole, due to his appearance. What's a good pirate nickname for him? Capt'n Cole. Calico Cole. Cole of Penzance.

https://images.app.goo.gl/URLMzyx7BVoEhcQo9


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After last game, I say his nickname should be Capt'n Jack Shot-o!

[Knightro]

Read on Twitter

[RookieStar]

Read on Twitter

EXCELLENT! We aren't taking chances then.

[Xatticus]

Look, i didn't try to start anything nor this is topic worth of too much words. Today, only 8 different threads had any new posts written. And i think i made 2 of 8. So it's not hard to figure nobody is posting anything.
Also it's not really hard to track down numbers and figure that there is very little interest in current "new" team, despite hardcore fans claiming they like and elect to watch young players "develop". Years of tv ratings prove that simply is not a case for majority of fans.

Fans like winning, compeating and shiny new toys, young teams generate buzz on start but fizzle down without sucess very fast. Case and point, Pelicans went from " muct watch" by mainstream media to " yea... that Ingram guy, is he still playing basketball? " . You can track down allstar votes and see how little attention span nba fans have when it comes to young players and/or interest of fans in watching actual development.
Lonzo had 960 000 votes for allstar game in 2019 and 57 000 in 2021. Guy lost 94% of votes because fans moved to new shiny toy to adore and worship. D'angello Russell also saw 90% drop in votes , Trae Young lost like 2 million votes despite playing better, with team that was playing better.

We can here debate until our heads turn purple about direcition and how much is this "win win" or " suck suck" or whatever, the reality is, we did execlly this in 2012.
Reality is also that Magic had top 5 worst record 5 times in last 9 years. This is nothing new to a team. Some people here just conviced themselfs it is.
Also in mean time, lottery reform changed, and Magic ,despite having 4th worst record, still have better chance at drafting OUTSIDE of top 5 than inside top 4, just like other pick they own, still has much bigger chance being late lottery or lost pick than actually turning into high pick for Orlando.

Lot of this is empty filler talk and non of this will matter. But i got tired about reading how it "hurts our tank, we have to reach top 3" like there are any major, groundbreaking things when it comes to odds that change moving few spots up and down.

the word record has 40,1% chance for top 3 pick
2 worst has 40,1% for top 3 pick
3rd worst has 40,1% for top 3 pick
4th worst has 36,66% for top 3 pick
5th worst has 31,6% for top 3 pick.

if you think that's groundbreaking "improvment" you should really be angry at your math teacher. Especially because both lotteries AFTER reform showed that somebody in 5-12 range is almost guaranteed to be drafting in top 3 pick because their cumulative odds of leapfrogging are simply too high.
If i had to bet, i would bet that 1# pick will go to Toronto, for start, they never won lottery and they were forced to leave country. Sounds like fitting reward from commisionaire from not at all rigged ( eye roll) lottery.

So the rebuild is already a failure because it hasn't lured hordes of fans back immediately on the heels of the three trades? I mean... there has certainly been more activity on the board since the trades, but it hasn't met your threshold for success? It's going to take time to rebuild interest after nine years of ineptitude. I can't speak for anyone else, but I've watched more Magic basketball since the trades happened than I did over the course of the season up to that point. I've already seen more of Devin Cannady than I'd ever hope to.

And let's be clear here... we didn't break up the 1998 Bulls. We broke up one of the worst teams in the league, so I don't understand why you keep using words like "winning" and "competing".

Yes. Some rebuilds fail. A lot of talent came through Orlando over the last nine years, but our rebuild failed because we held onto the wrong pieces. I don't know what you are so bothered about. Just about anything is preferable to the last nine years. I don't know what the next nine years will look like, but worst case scenario is something similar to the last nine years. The Orlando Magic have moved on from the business of polishing turds, at least temporarily.

Magic 9 years rebuild didn't fail because they held onto wrong peaces but because they kept adding wrong players in draft.

Sometimes it was obvious f***ery from day one ( Payton, Bamba) sometimes it was complete lack of sense how to develop player ( Gordon, Oladipo played out of position), sometimes it was poor evaluation of talent ( Hezonja). But in all cases it comes down to taking wrong players.

The Orlando Magic have moved on from the business of polishing turds, at least temporarily

Fultz and Bamba say hello
Given projected ceiling of Cole - Brandon Jennings , you can add him too to turd party.

I'm not bothered with rebuild, i just find hilarious that people think Magic are now doing something "brand new" when they just doing what they have done for 9 years and kept failing.

No.

Consider the Bulls or Jazz dynasties of the 80s and 90s. Look at the revolving doors that the Bulls had at point guard or center. Look at the revolving doors the Jazz had at everything but point guard and power forward. The names and faces changed, but the teams consistently won 50+ games because the cores of those teams were strong. It didn't matter whether or not Felton Spencer, Mark Eaton, or Greg Ostertag was playing center, the Jazz won games. It didn't matter if the Bulls played BJ Armstrong, Steve Kerr, John Paxson, or Craig Hodges at point guard, they won games.

We have consistently lost over the past nine years because the core of this team has been 25-win talent. You are still trying to blame the team's failures on a point guard that didn't even finish out his rookie-scale contract. This team has been awful because we were committing over half the team's payroll and usage to what should have been the bench unit on sub-MLE contracts.

Yes. Some of the prospects that this team brings in will fail. That's not a problem unless we start handing them $100M contracts.

[Xatticus]

The problem with what you're saying pepe is the forum has been this inactive since we went on that hot streak and first made the playoffs back in 2019. The last two seasons since that moment have been as dead as I've ever seen it. I personally was apathetic to this team and could barely bring myself to watch a game past halftime, much less post on a nightly basis.

I know countless others who felt/feel the same way. Trading Vuc/Fournier/AG isn't what put the board into this state. Keeping that core together for so long and the ceiling of this team so low is what did.

When we add two top 10 picks and Isaac/Fultz to this group next year I expect more activity and excitement to return. Far more than we had during the last couple seasons of the core we traded away.

A mediocre treadmill team breeds even more inactivity than an awful rebuilding one. The latter at least gives some hope.

Also Reality...noone outside of this Forum cares one bit about this forum, particularly the ORL Magic

Sure they do. They'd never admit it, but they certainly read it.

[VFX]

Once again, people don’t understand what tanking means.

Never fails.


For reference, Orlando is currently tanking. The front office actively traded vets for draft picks and potential.

The previous years weren’t tanking... it was called being bad, building nonsensical rosters, and having zero talent.

Only a Front Office can tank.

[drsd]

Once again, people don’t understand what tanking means.

Never fails.


For reference, Orlando is currently tanking. The front office actively traded vets for draft picks and potential.

The previous years weren’t tanking... it was called being bad, building nonsensical rosters, and having zero talent.

Only a Front Office can tank.

And-1, and to add.

Let's imagine the Magic is currently the 7-seed and only 1-game out of the 6-seed, do we rest Ross, Porter, and Carter-Williams against the Pelicans? The correct is NO.

Correct tanking is not about actually trying to lose. It is about having management and coaching tryly evaluate the roster to make off-season decisions for the next year. That is why Hampton and Bamba are now getting good minutes even though they are 3rd stringers on any other (non-taking) roster.

Incorrect tanking is what the Sixers did: ensuring there is no talent on the roster so that from game-1 games can be lost. That is amoral.

..

[drsd]

Curious how much this season is tracking the 2017/18 season. Early, hopeful wins followed by a disastrous mid-season, and no rebound. Of course the Magic made the post-season the following two years !

[pepe1991]

So the rebuild is already a failure because it hasn't lured hordes of fans back immediately on the heels of the three trades? I mean... there has certainly been more activity on the board since the trades, but it hasn't met your threshold for success? It's going to take time to rebuild interest after nine years of ineptitude. I can't speak for anyone else, but I've watched more Magic basketball since the trades happened than I did over the course of the season up to that point. I've already seen more of Devin Cannady than I'd ever hope to.

And let's be clear here... we didn't break up the 1998 Bulls. We broke up one of the worst teams in the league, so I don't understand why you keep using words like "winning" and "competing".

Yes. Some rebuilds fail. A lot of talent came through Orlando over the last nine years, but our rebuild failed because we held onto the wrong pieces. I don't know what you are so bothered about. Just about anything is preferable to the last nine years. I don't know what the next nine years will look like, but worst case scenario is something similar to the last nine years. The Orlando Magic have moved on from the business of polishing turds, at least temporarily.

Magic 9 years rebuild didn't fail because they held onto wrong peaces but because they kept adding wrong players in draft.

Sometimes it was obvious f***ery from day one ( Payton, Bamba) sometimes it was complete lack of sense how to develop player ( Gordon, Oladipo played out of position), sometimes it was poor evaluation of talent ( Hezonja). But in all cases it comes down to taking wrong players.

The Orlando Magic have moved on from the business of polishing turds, at least temporarily

Fultz and Bamba say hello
Given projected ceiling of Cole - Brandon Jennings , you can add him too to turd party.

I'm not bothered with rebuild, i just find hilarious that people think Magic are now doing something "brand new" when they just doing what they have done for 9 years and kept failing.

No.

Consider the Bulls or Jazz dynasties of the 80s and 90s. Look at the revolving doors that the Bulls had at point guard or center. Look at the revolving doors the Jazz had at everything but point guard and power forward. The names and faces changed, but the teams consistently won 50+ games because the cores of those teams were strong. It didn't matter whether or not Felton Spencer, Mark Eaton, or Greg Ostertag was playing center, the Jazz won games. It didn't matter if the Bulls played BJ Armstrong, Steve Kerr, John Paxson, or Craig Hodges at point guard, they won games.

We have consistently lost over the past nine years because the core of this team has been 25-win talent. You are still trying to blame the team's failures on a point guard that didn't even finish out his rookie-scale contract. This team has been awful because we were committing over half the team's payroll and usage to what should have been the bench unit on sub-MLE contracts.

Yes. Some of the prospects that this team brings in will fail. That's not a problem unless we start handing them $100M contracts.

2013- 2015 Magic were activilty tanking. Fact. Especially in first two years. Worst nba record, third worst nba record and fifth worst nba record are proof of it.

2017 and 2018- fifth worst record , fifth worst record. Not active tanking like they do today, but sucking and late season tanking rosters ( as i've already debunked claim of not tanking in 2018, when in fact Magic were starting Mack, hezonja, Biyombo and Purvis).

We already handed 2 broken players contracts they have no business getting on open market. So new circle of sucking already started.

. You are still trying to blame the team's failures on a point guard

3 and half yeras investment into each and every year top 3 worst PG most defenetly played into Magic suckingess.
Having no starting level PG since Jameer Nelson 10 years ago, despite PG being most important position in modern basketball. most defenetly played into fact Magic keep on being terrible team for a decade, and still suck.

[basketballRob]

I believe Ennis has to play around 11 more games to qualify as one of the league leaders in 3 PT percentage. He's played 39 games and I think you have to play 70% of the games to qualify.

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[tiderulz]

Magic 9 years rebuild didn't fail because they held onto wrong peaces but because they kept adding wrong players in draft.

Sometimes it was obvious f***ery from day one ( Payton, Bamba) sometimes it was complete lack of sense how to develop player ( Gordon, Oladipo played out of position), sometimes it was poor evaluation of talent ( Hezonja). But in all cases it comes down to taking wrong players.


Fultz and Bamba say hello
Given projected ceiling of Cole - Brandon Jennings , you can add him too to turd party.

I'm not bothered with rebuild, i just find hilarious that people think Magic are now doing something "brand new" when they just doing what they have done for 9 years and kept failing.

No.

Consider the Bulls or Jazz dynasties of the 80s and 90s. Look at the revolving doors that the Bulls had at point guard or center. Look at the revolving doors the Jazz had at everything but point guard and power forward. The names and faces changed, but the teams consistently won 50+ games because the cores of those teams were strong. It didn't matter whether or not Felton Spencer, Mark Eaton, or Greg Ostertag was playing center, the Jazz won games. It didn't matter if the Bulls played BJ Armstrong, Steve Kerr, John Paxson, or Craig Hodges at point guard, they won games.

We have consistently lost over the past nine years because the core of this team has been 25-win talent. You are still trying to blame the team's failures on a point guard that didn't even finish out his rookie-scale contract. This team has been awful because we were committing over half the team's payroll and usage to what should have been the bench unit on sub-MLE contracts.

Yes. Some of the prospects that this team brings in will fail. That's not a problem unless we start handing them $100M contracts.

2013- 2015 Magic were activilty tanking. Fact. Especially in first two years. Worst nba record, third worst nba record and fifth worst nba record are proof of it.

2017 and 2018- fifth worst record , fifth worst record. Not active tanking like they do today, but sucking and late season tanking rosters ( as i've already debunked claim of not tanking in 2018, when in fact Magic were starting Mack, hezonja, Biyombo and Purvis).

We already handed 2 broken players contracts they have no business getting on open market. So new circle of sucking already started.

. You are still trying to blame the team's failures on a point guard

3 and half yeras investment into each and every year top 3 worst PG most defenetly played into Magic suckingess.
Having no starting level PG since Jameer Nelson 10 years ago, despite PG being most important position in modern basketball. most defenetly played into fact Magic keep on being terrible team for a decade, and still suck.

Minnesota has had some of the worst records lately and they arent tanking. Sacramento has been picking high and they arent tanking. they are just bad. Orlando with Vuc/AG/Fournier as their best players isnt tanking, they just arent good. Add in injuries and questionable draft picks, and the team loses a lot.

[pepe1991]

No.

Consider the Bulls or Jazz dynasties of the 80s and 90s. Look at the revolving doors that the Bulls had at point guard or center. Look at the revolving doors the Jazz had at everything but point guard and power forward. The names and faces changed, but the teams consistently won 50+ games because the cores of those teams were strong. It didn't matter whether or not Felton Spencer, Mark Eaton, or Greg Ostertag was playing center, the Jazz won games. It didn't matter if the Bulls played BJ Armstrong, Steve Kerr, John Paxson, or Craig Hodges at point guard, they won games.

We have consistently lost over the past nine years because the core of this team has been 25-win talent. You are still trying to blame the team's failures on a point guard that didn't even finish out his rookie-scale contract. This team has been awful because we were committing over half the team's payroll and usage to what should have been the bench unit on sub-MLE contracts.

Yes. Some of the prospects that this team brings in will fail. That's not a problem unless we start handing them $100M contracts.

2013- 2015 Magic were activilty tanking. Fact. Especially in first two years. Worst nba record, third worst nba record and fifth worst nba record are proof of it.

2017 and 2018- fifth worst record , fifth worst record. Not active tanking like they do today, but sucking and late season tanking rosters ( as i've already debunked claim of not tanking in 2018, when in fact Magic were starting Mack, hezonja, Biyombo and Purvis).

We already handed 2 broken players contracts they have no business getting on open market. So new circle of sucking already started.

. You are still trying to blame the team's failures on a point guard

3 and half yeras investment into each and every year top 3 worst PG most defenetly played into Magic suckingess.
Having no starting level PG since Jameer Nelson 10 years ago, despite PG being most important position in modern basketball. most defenetly played into fact Magic keep on being terrible team for a decade, and still suck.

Minnesota has had some of the worst records lately and they arent tanking. Sacramento has been picking high and they arent tanking. they are just bad. Orlando with Vuc/AG/Fournier as their best players isnt tanking, they just arent good. Add in injuries and questionable draft picks, and the team loses a lot.

Magic, unlike them, when healthy, made playoffs, and even climbed over .500 record once.
Sacramento didn't finish with positive record since 2005-06.
Minessota had positive recordd once in 18 years.

I'm not against rebuild, i'm debating notion that Magic didn't tank in past .Magic had worst record in basketball in 2012-13 and third worst in 2013-14. And that was -tanking.
Later, being bad AND tanking Magic finished with top 5 worst record -three separate times from 2015 to 2018.

[drsd]

I'm not against rebuild, i'm debating notion that Magic didn't tank in past .Magic had worst record in basketball in 2012-13 and third worst in 2013-14. And that was -tanking.
Later, being bad AND tanking Magic finished with top 5 worst record -three separate times from 2015 to 2018.

The Magic did tank away the 2012/13 season. But tfrom there it was all "player development". The 2013 and 2014 teams did not tank, they were just very young and the players developed poorly.

The Magic is tanking this season since the trade-deadline. But I cannot see that flowing over to next season. Again there might be "player development", but the gaol will be for management to assemble the best roster possible and for the coach to get wins out of that roster. Will that equal a 41-41 type team that could sneak in to the 8-seed? Probably not. But it's not tanking per se.


..

[tiderulz]

2013- 2015 Magic were activilty tanking. Fact. Especially in first two years. Worst nba record, third worst nba record and fifth worst nba record are proof of it.

2017 and 2018- fifth worst record , fifth worst record. Not active tanking like they do today, but sucking and late season tanking rosters ( as i've already debunked claim of not tanking in 2018, when in fact Magic were starting Mack, hezonja, Biyombo and Purvis).

We already handed 2 broken players contracts they have no business getting on open market. So new circle of sucking already started.

3 and half yeras investment into each and every year top 3 worst PG most defenetly played into Magic suckingess.
Having no starting level PG since Jameer Nelson 10 years ago, despite PG being most important position in modern basketball. most defenetly played into fact Magic keep on being terrible team for a decade, and still suck.

Minnesota has had some of the worst records lately and they arent tanking. Sacramento has been picking high and they arent tanking. they are just bad. Orlando with Vuc/AG/Fournier as their best players isnt tanking, they just arent good. Add in injuries and questionable draft picks, and the team loses a lot.

Magic, unlike them, when healthy, made playoffs, and even climbed over .500 record once.
Sacramento didn't finish with positive record since 2005-06.
Minessota had positive recordd once in 18 years.

I'm not against rebuild, i'm debating notion that Magic didn't tank in past .Magic had worst record in basketball in 2012-13 and third worst in 2013-14. And that was -tanking.
Later, being bad AND tanking Magic finished with top 5 worst record -three separate times from 2015 to 2018.

Magic made the playoffs? yes, but lets not go crazy. They barely made the playoffs, but like 1 or 2 games. and those were healthy teams. the team we had needed to be reset, they were not even capable of cracking the 4th spot for playoffs.

[VFX]

Once again, people don’t understand what tanking means.

Never fails.


For reference, Orlando is currently tanking. The front office actively traded vets for draft picks and potential.

The previous years weren’t tanking... it was called being bad, building nonsensical rosters, and having zero talent.

Only a Front Office can tank.

And-1, and to add.

Let's imagine the Magic is currently the 7-seed and only 1-game out of the 6-seed, do we rest Ross, Porter, and Carter-Williams against the Pelicans? The correct is NO.

Correct tanking is not about actually trying to lose. It is about having management and coaching tryly evaluate the roster to make off-season decisions for the next year. That is why Hampton and Bamba are now getting good minutes even though they are 3rd stringers on any other (non-taking) roster.

Incorrect tanking is what the Sixers did: ensuring there is no talent on the roster so that from game-1 games can be lost. That is amoral.

..

If they really wanted to solidify the tank they’d sit Ross. He can single handedly win a game for Orlando when he’s “on”.

Porter and MCW can play lengthy minutes and it probably wouldn’t mean much with Fultz and Isaac out.

[drsd]

If they really wanted to solidify the tank they’d sit Ross. He can single handedly win a game for Orlando when he’s “on”.

Porter and MCW can play lengthy minutes and it probably wouldn’t mean much with Fultz and Isaac out.

It is very hard to imagine the Magic losing to Houston if Ross had played.