Official Spec Thread: Heart and Hustle Magic 2.0

[89Magicfan]

Fultz with a shot is our best player.

I think JI it’s all about strengthening that leg. I’m fine with that.

[Skybox]

Fultz with a shot is our best player.

I think JI it’s all about strengthening that leg. I’m fine with that.

Yes...Fultz with a shot, Suggs with a little composure from experience, and Cole is an intriguing Guard rotation. Get ready for the next 20 pages of "Fultz can't shoot" flames. I'm rooting for him and it DOES matter, IMO, that he has shot at a high level in the past. It's not a complete fantasy, just a partial fantasy

[89Magicfan]

Fultz with a shot is our best player.

I think JI it’s all about strengthening that leg. I’m fine with that.

Yes...Fultz with a shot, Suggs with a little composure from experience, and Cole is an intriguing Guard rotation. Get ready for the next 20 pages of "Fultz can't shoot" flames. I'm rooting for him and it DOES matter, IMO, that he has shot at a high level in the past. It's not a complete fantasy, just a partial fantasy

Well he hasn’t shown great strides there. The potential is there though.

Fultz without a shot, think Cole might be our best player.

[Optimus_Steel]

JI is one year away from being a year away.

[Skybox]

Fultz with a shot is our best player.

I think JI it’s all about strengthening that leg. I’m fine with that.

Yes...Fultz with a shot, Suggs with a little composure from experience, and Cole is an intriguing Guard rotation. Get ready for the next 20 pages of "Fultz can't shoot" flames. I'm rooting for him and it DOES matter, IMO, that he has shot at a high level in the past. It's not a complete fantasy, just a partial fantasy

Well he hasn’t shown great strides there. The potential is there though.

Fultz without a shot, think Cole might be our best player.

yeah...I decided this morning, I'm not going to resist "Team Cole" anymore, I'll cheer as far as he'll take us.

[penny_nz]

Great to see vids of Kelle on the court, disappointing to read between the lines of the update for what that means to JI. I know they're being deliberately vague and they'll be ultra cautious, but damn.

[thelead]

Great to see vids of Kelle on the court, disappointing to read between the lines of the update for what that means to JI. I know they're being deliberately vague and they'll be ultra cautious, but damn.

Don't underestimate the tanking aspect to all of this too. Third stringers playing over Fultz and JI is doing wonders for our pursuit of a top pick.

Watch on YouTube

[drsd]

All I know is that the Magic gave Mosley a 4-year deal and extended Weltman/Hammond to 4-year deals to line up with Mosley for a reason.

There is, in my opinion, absolutely no expectation for this franchise to be turned around quickly.

Orlando will be better next year. And if healthier, I can absolutely see a play-in run as a 9 or 10 seed. From there, well, 2023/24 is a long way off.

I don't think there's any internal pressure from ownership to do any sort of consolidation/cash in multiple assets for a bigger piece type of trade at this time.

It is not pressure I meant. Rather, I think the Magic's FRP and a bunch of their level-2 assets (Antony, Okeke, etc.) can be traded. And that trade would have more value than the Magic just taking their pick. The team is too young. With Carter-Williams, Moore, and Lopez leaving, there will be only Ross on this roster to provide vet-leadership. The team need more.

And: if the Magic is deciding on drafting between Paolo Banchero and Jabari Smith, the pick then NEEDS to be traded on draft day. The Magic needs scoring at the wing. Either F-Wagner is that guy, or Fultz magically develops into a scoring off-guard.


..

[Knightro]

Orlando will be better next year. And if healthier, I can absolutely see a play-in run as a 9 or 10 seed. From there, well, 2023/24 is a long way off.

It is not pressure I meant. Rather, I think the Magic's FRP and a bunch of their level-2 assets (Antony, Okeke, etc.) can be traded. And that trade would have more value than the Magic just taking their pick. The team is too young. With Carter-Williams, Moore, and Lopez leaving, there will be only Ross on this roster to provide vet-leadership. The team need more.

And: if the Magic is deciding on drafting between Paolo Banchero and Jabari Smith, the pick then NEEDS to be traded on draft day. The Magic needs scoring at the wing. Either F-Wagner is that guy, or Fultz magically develops into a scoring off-guard.

I just don't agree with any of this.

I don't anticipate the Magic being good at all next year, nor do I think they have any care in the world about the team being "too young" - you mentioned MCW, Moore and Lopez will all be gone, but veterans of that caliber are available to be signed every summer for practically no money.

What the Magic need above all else is more talent regardless of position. The roles and depth chart can be worked out later.

They're not in a position to trade draft picks for veterans. It's nonsensical.

[Skybox]

I'm not talking about cashing in for vets in their prime...I'm talking about opportunistic seeking of young "vets", 23 or 24, 2 or 3 years in the league, just in a situation where the team is switching things up, has other financial commitments that preclude them from paying a guy that might be a couple years from really busting out, etc...our young guys with potential (and maybe a better fit), our vets (if we have any), our cap space, and our picks all on the table for a young star-in-the-making...If Isaac is really healthy, he could be a really valuable trade piece (or to keep depending on how we draft & how others develop in his spot). He could be the one guy offering an elite skill that another team might need more than us...I could definitely see Isaac complementing Zion better than, say, complementing WCJ.

[MasterGMer]

I was hopeful at the beginning of this season expecting a ROY level play from Suggs. But it doesn't happen. I thought we would play to our best and have a OK record, but it doesn't happen.

This season is all about player development, and I get it. But winning is the only way to help the team grow. Now I know for sure, we are tanking.

This team is full of young talents. One of the best and youngest in the league. But we do not know how to win yet.

We have more than 30M in cap space next summer and we are locked in Top 5 pick in 2022 NBA draft if nothing happens this season.

That is valuable asset.

This season is over. And I am looking forward to a great summer! And next year, we should be better otherwise Mosley is gone

[MaKiaVeLi7]

Pronblem is that the starters and main rotation guys are playing the same way you described. After Cole Anthony went down with that ankle injury and Suggs took over as the main distributor we are playing like a team of strangers. There is no plan, no idea, no flow, no rhyme or reason in our offence.

We don't run any sets for anyone and everybody is just playing hot potato like "gimme the ball on the perimeter so I can give it back to you" - until we make a dumb TO, or everyone becomes trigger happy and start jacking up threes senselessly hence all the recent blowout losses.

We all knew coach Mosley was not a mastermind or some kind of a genius when it comes to offense, but man, he really needs to step his coaching up and show us some improvement.

[Statlanta]

Orlando will likely be better but whose to say other teams won't improve. Teams picking higher in the lottery or teams with a higher talent base like Indiana might make more drastic decisions.

[Bakomagic]

Pronblem is that the starters and main rotation guys are playing the same way you described. After Cole Anthony went down with that ankle injury and Suggs took over as the main distributor we are playing like a team of strangers. There is no plan, no idea, no flow, no rhyme or reason in our offence.

We don't run any sets for anyone and everybody is just playing hot potato like "gimme the ball on the perimeter so I can give it back to you" - until we make a dumb TO, or everyone becomes trigger happy and start jacking up threes senselessly hence all the recent blowout losses.

We all knew coach Mosley was not a mastermind or some kind of a genius when it comes to offense, but man, he really needs to step his coaching up and show us some improvement.

I think you’re expectations of our team are a little high, none of us should be surprised that we aren’t very good, especially considering you could argue that we are without our three best players (Kelle, JI and Cole)

Also your view always seems to be a little skewed due to your fandom bias of Cole Anthony, we aren’t very good with him either, although he himself has been pretty awesome and I’m a big fan of his.

I too have been frustrated by the ugly iso ball moments we have had but I wonder if part of Mose allowing that is more about development ? We don’t want these guys to develop bad habits but also don’t want them benched or totally uninvolved standing in the corner while we spam plays for veterans (Clifford style). Atleast Mose does seem to talk to the young guys when they come off the court assuming he’s coaching them on their success/failures during their minutes on the court.

In the end it seems like Cliff and Mose have different views on developing players so it will be interesting to see how it unfolds. Although frustrating, I prefer letting the young guys play and hopefully learn from mistakes at the risk of losing games we could’ve won by spamming plays to get our more NBA ready vets shots.

I didn’t love the results of Cliffs development of players, hopefully this diff development strategy produces better results.

[zaymon]

Pronblem is that the starters and main rotation guys are playing the same way you described. After Cole Anthony went down with that ankle injury and Suggs took over as the main distributor we are playing like a team of strangers. There is no plan, no idea, no flow, no rhyme or reason in our offence.

We don't run any sets for anyone and everybody is just playing hot potato like "gimme the ball on the perimeter so I can give it back to you" - until we make a dumb TO, or everyone becomes trigger happy and start jacking up threes senselessly hence all the recent blowout losses.

We all knew coach Mosley was not a mastermind or some kind of a genius when it comes to offense, but man, he really needs to step his coaching up and show us some improvement.

I think you’re expectations of our team are a little high, none of us should be surprised that we aren’t very good, especially considering you could argue that we are without our three best players (Kelle, JI and Cole)

Also your view always seems to be a little skewed due to your fandom bias of Cole Anthony, we aren’t very good with him either, although he himself has been pretty awesome and I’m a big fan of his.

I too have been frustrated by the ugly iso ball moments we have had but I wonder if part of Mose allowing that is more about development ? We don’t want these guys to develop bad habits but also don’t want them benched or totally uninvolved standing in the corner while we spam plays for veterans (Clifford style). Atleast Mose does seem to talk to the young guys when they come off the court assuming he’s coaching them on their success/failures during their minutes on the court.

In the end it seems like Cliff and Mose have different views on developing players so it will be interesting to see how it unfolds. Although frustrating, I prefer letting the young guys play and hopefully learn from mistakes at the risk of losing games we could’ve won by spamming plays to get our more NBA ready vets shots.

I didn’t love the results of Cliffs development of players, hopefully this diff development strategy produces better results.

Clifford had his flaws and at the end he was bundle of nerves but we looked much better under him even after trades without any practice. Isaac developed into all nba level defender, Hampton and Okeke looked like real players, Gary Harris was not that awful, Anthony improved as season went along.
Its too soon to judge Mosley, but he is not on Clifford level as a coach right now, not even close. Hope he will get there becouse he has good energy.

[Knightro]

Clifford had his flaws and at the end he was bundle of nerves but we looked much better under him even after trades without any practice. Isaac developed into all nba level defender, Hampton and Okeke looked like real players, Gary Harris was not that awful, Anthony improved as season went along.
Its too soon to judge Mosley, but he is not on Clifford level as a coach right now, not even close. Hope he will get there becouse he has good energy.

I mean, not really?

Orlando post trades last year had a -13.4 NET and even that is skewed because Clifford played every veteran he had left - Ennis, Ross, MCW, Birch, Harris, Porter - as long as he possibly could until they either got hurt or Weltman forced Clifford's hand.

Once Clifford was in a position to play all young guys, he faked getting sick and ultimately quit. He had no interest in teaching anyone anything.

This year the Magic have a -11.0 NET for what that's worth. Absolutely terrible, but still not as bad as the 2nd half of last year.

[Bakomagic]

Pronblem is that the starters and main rotation guys are playing the same way you described. After Cole Anthony went down with that ankle injury and Suggs took over as the main distributor we are playing like a team of strangers. There is no plan, no idea, no flow, no rhyme or reason in our offence.

We don't run any sets for anyone and everybody is just playing hot potato like "gimme the ball on the perimeter so I can give it back to you" - until we make a dumb TO, or everyone becomes trigger happy and start jacking up threes senselessly hence all the recent blowout losses.

We all knew coach Mosley was not a mastermind or some kind of a genius when it comes to offense, but man, he really needs to step his coaching up and show us some improvement.

I think you’re expectations of our team are a little high, none of us should be surprised that we aren’t very good, especially considering you could argue that we are without our three best players (Kelle, JI and Cole)

Also your view always seems to be a little skewed due to your fandom bias of Cole Anthony, we aren’t very good with him either, although he himself has been pretty awesome and I’m a big fan of his.

I too have been frustrated by the ugly iso ball moments we have had but I wonder if part of Mose allowing that is more about development ? We don’t want these guys to develop bad habits but also don’t want them benched or totally uninvolved standing in the corner while we spam plays for veterans (Clifford style). Atleast Mose does seem to talk to the young guys when they come off the court assuming he’s coaching them on their success/failures during their minutes on the court.

In the end it seems like Cliff and Mose have different views on developing players so it will be interesting to see how it unfolds. Although frustrating, I prefer letting the young guys play and hopefully learn from mistakes at the risk of losing games we could’ve won by spamming plays to get our more NBA ready vets shots.

I didn’t love the results of Cliffs development of players, hopefully this diff development strategy produces better results.

Clifford had his flaws and at the end he was bundle of nerves but we looked much better under him even after trades without any practice. Isaac developed into all nba level defender, Hampton and Okeke looked like real players, Gary Harris was not that awful, Anthony improved as season went along.
Its too soon to judge Mosley, but he is not on Clifford level as a coach right now, not even close. Hope he will get there becouse he has good energy.

Fair point on Isaac defensively, but I hoped he’d develop more offensively that’s not solely on Clifford.

I don’t understand bringing Gary Harris into a conversation about Clifford developing? I don’t think Cliff should get credit for RJ or Okeke seeing as he only had them for part of the season and obviously decided to quit after the trade cuz he didn’t want to rebuild, not saying he is wrong for that but if you already know you are outta there how much effort do you think he put into developing those guys.

Plus are Okeke and RJ examples of well developed players ? They looked raw still to me ?

Cole is playing the best ball of his life under Mose but I don’t want to give Credit to Mose yet but I’m sure as hell not going to give that credit to Cliff he’s not even here ?

All in all, time will tell for Coach Mose development all ability and I am interested to see which way works out better.

I agree that it’s too soon to judge Mose, I am more looking at the strategies of Letting young players play through mistakes vs sitting them to hold them Accountable.

I can see value in both.

[MaKiaVeLi7]

Pronblem is that the starters and main rotation guys are playing the same way you described. After Cole Anthony went down with that ankle injury and Suggs took over as the main distributor we are playing like a team of strangers. There is no plan, no idea, no flow, no rhyme or reason in our offence.

We don't run any sets for anyone and everybody is just playing hot potato like "gimme the ball on the perimeter so I can give it back to you" - until we make a dumb TO, or everyone becomes trigger happy and start jacking up threes senselessly hence all the recent blowout losses.

We all knew coach Mosley was not a mastermind or some kind of a genius when it comes to offense, but man, he really needs to step his coaching up and show us some improvement.

I think you’re expectations of our team are a little high, none of us should be surprised that we aren’t very good, especially considering you could argue that we are without our three best players (Kelle, JI and Cole)

Also your view always seems to be a little skewed due to your fandom bias of Cole Anthony, we aren’t very good with him either, although he himself has been pretty awesome and I’m a big fan of his.

I too have been frustrated by the ugly iso ball moments we have had but I wonder if part of Mose allowing that is more about development ? We don’t want these guys to develop bad habits but also don’t want them benched or totally uninvolved standing in the corner while we spam plays for veterans (Clifford style). Atleast Mose does seem to talk to the young guys when they come off the court assuming he’s coaching them on their success/failures during their minutes on the court.

In the end it seems like Cliff and Mose have different views on developing players so it will be interesting to see how it unfolds. Although frustrating, I prefer letting the young guys play and hopefully learn from mistakes at the risk of losing games we could’ve won by spamming plays to get our more NBA ready vets shots.

I didn’t love the results of Cliffs development of players, hopefully this diff development strategy produces better results.

I understand what you're trying to say, I tend to agree with you.

I just want to see 3 simple simple things any given night:
1. Steady improvement in various areas (team-wise)
2. Visible development of the young guys (all of them)
3. Playing the right way and building good habits by competent coaching (most important of all)



Not sure we are seeing that from coach Mosley every time, he makes a lot of mistakes, his rotations are strange. He tends to put the starters on the bench for long long periods of time in the second and third quarters. I am not sure this helps them in terms of maintaining a good playing rhythm - they are young inexperienced guys and not veterans who know how to keep their bodies and minds ready for action no matter what.

Problem is that when they get back in play they need more time to get back up to speed and many turnovers happen because of that. It's easy for the young guns to get distracted, lose focus and get cold. Some of the brutal scoring droughts may also be attributed to that rotations strategy coach Mosley is practicing.

I sympathize with coach Mos, I hope he proves himself in the league, but I need to see more from him. He's getting visibly outcoached multiple times already. Just my opinion and observations, not trying to generalize our bad play at all or blame it solely on the coach.

I think we may all agree that it's too early for Mosley to be judged harshly, but he can do a lot better. Especially with his offensive schemes. Too often we see this team being totally lost on offense and playing without a clear plan or purpose. That's on the coach - mistakes and turnovers, bad shots and misses are normal and understandable for young teams, but playing without a clear plan or idea of what they are doing on the floor for extended stretches in the games is on the coach for sure.

[Def Swami]

It's hard to judge the coach when he was set up for failure to begin with. No coach is going to win with a roster that features 9 rotation guys that are 23 and younger, 2 of which are the still out with injuries. He's just carrying out what the front office wants. Weltman and Hammond went into this season looking to tank with this roster. Mosely may make some weird rotation decisions at times, but I also get his hands are tied with playing one player who is a net negative vs another player who is also net negative. Most of the decisions he makes in game are a lose-lose. Not to mention he's running a team with essentially no point guard.

This is basically "Evaluation Season 2." You hope to get to March and see some general overall improvement from certain guys like Suggs, Wagner, Hampton. You also hope to figure out who are keepers and who might be expendable. IMO, Carter Jr. is proving to be a keeper and I think I've seen enough from Bamba to know it's time to move on. Franz Wagner is legitimately a good basketball player. I think Anthony made some tangible improvements in his game. Suggs will take some time. Everyone else, I'm kind of mum on. This team is going to lose a lot, but hopefully we can sift through the weeds and figure out how to mold this roster over time. Mosely might be a good coach, he might be bad. But we'll never really know this year. He's a caretaker for this season.

[YosemiteSam]

The thing is, this is what everyone said about Memphis 2 years ago, and they went out and competed from Day 1. Now, was that all because Ja is a superstar? Or was it that their coach (who was younger and less experienced than Mosley) can actually coach a scheme? Not sure about that just yet