The Official Jalen Suggs Thread

[Knightro]

Seriously? I'd trade one of our FRPs and young assets for some star this trade deadline or the offseason while drafting Top 5.

I am not saying I will expedite the rebuild process. But at least, we won't tank for 2 more years

They're only tanking one more year (next year) in my scenario.

2023-2024 would be a year to be competitive and try and make the playoffs.

[Bensational]

Reason why there is no structure to offense is because Suggs and Cole don't provide one. Their main jobs as playmakers is to set offense. Instad, they are too busy calling own numbers all the time. Magic biggest chuckers are two guards. At average they take 28 shots a game.

Maybe or it could be the average age of the starting lineup is 21. Do you think Wendell fake handing off the ball or not enough screens in general could affect the offense?

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Garland ( 22), Mobley (20), Allen ( 23), Markannen (24) , Okoro 21 / Sexton 23
Morant 22, Jackson 22, Bane 23, Adams 28 , Brooks 26

There are solid, funcional young teams. I think Cole and Suggs don't navigate screens well but in general biggest issue in starting 5 comes from fact that Bamba & Wendell are mediocre shooters and dont' set solid screens and Cole and Suggs are bad fits.
Gary Harris as starter averaged 14 ppg on 58% TS, there was no logical basketball reason to sit him in favor of either Suggs or Cole. But Mosley (or/and ) front office don't have balls to bench one of them. It will be funny to see what happends when Fultz return.

WeHam have said since the start of this rebuild that putting the ball in the hands of it new young future and letting them learn through mistakes - like Trae and others - was an important focus for them for development. There is plenty of logic to satisfy myself and many others who understand development happens and that the 19-20 year old rookies we have aren’t the players we’ll have in 3-4 seasons. It doesn’t guarantee a star, and for every failed past developmental player that fuels your skepticism there is a Trae Young or Devin Booker or Zach LaVine who you’ve written off at an early age who later goes on to make a conference finals or finals series by their 3rd to 6th pro season. Our guys may not get there, but management has put them on the same path.

[zaymon]

If you dont believe Anthony is starting point guard we are basically two years behind both Cavs and Griz. We also start 4th center who is basically a bad rookie. A lot can change in two years. Cavs were awful last year.
Draft wont change much but Isaac is key for next year. Change from Bamba to Isaac is like playing with 4 players vs playing with 6 players

Here's how I see it.

The Magic are halfway through tanking Year 2.

They'll add a top 5 pick to the mix. For hypothetical sake let's say its Chet Holmgren.

They'll tank the 22-23 season, but look to add a young veteran in that 23-27 age range using their excess pieces (some combo of Fultz, Anthony, Hampton, Okeke, Chicago 1st, Denver 1st) - think the Hawks adding Capela or the Cavs adding Allen - without messing up their tank.

They'll add another top 5 pick to the mix in 2023. For hypothetical sake let's say it's Scoot Henderson.

Then in the summer of 2023, they'll aggressively sign/trade for a free agents in that 20-25M AAV range and add some other veterans in the $-7M AAV range

Opening Night 2023-2024 Season
G: Henderson, $5-7M FA signing
G: Suggs, $25M 2023 free agent signing
F: Wagner, 2023 trade deadline acquisition
F: Isaac, $5-7M FA signing
C: Holmgren, Carter

And then you can kind of see where this is going at that point.

I think thats propably too much young players. You cant start player like Henderson and expect to win. You will piss everybody. If Isaac is healthy we should try to win next year and trade the pick or play him off the bench. We can even do something like this
Suggs/Wagner/Isaac/Carter/Holmgren

We will still have Fultz, Hampton, Okeke, Anthony and our and Bulls 2023 picks and maybe player we sign with capspace. ( assuming Bamba is gone)

[thelead]

Scoot can't shoot.

I was so hyped by his highlight reel... then I saw that he's shooting 17% from deep...

[Skin]

PG Markelle Fultz - Playmaker
SG Jaden Ivey - Superstar
SF Franz Wagner - X Factor
PF Jonathan Isaac - Defensive stopper
C Wendell Carter - Serviceable Big Man
6th Jalen Suggs - Scrappy 6th Man

Then get quality depth at the 7th and 8th depth spots.

[MasterGMer]

PG Markelle Fultz - Playmaker
SG Jaden Ivey - Superstar
SF Franz Wagner - X Factor
PF Jonathan Isaac - Defensive stopper
C Wendell Carter - Serviceable Big Man
6th Jalen Suggs - Scrappy 6th Man

Then get quality depth at the 7th and 8th depth spots.

Franz Wagner is an X Factor? lol

[Skin]

PG Markelle Fultz - Playmaker
SG Jaden Ivey - Superstar
SF Franz Wagner - X Factor
PF Jonathan Isaac - Defensive stopper
C Wendell Carter - Serviceable Big Man
6th Jalen Suggs - Scrappy 6th Man

Then get quality depth at the 7th and 8th depth spots.

Franz Wagner is an X Factor? lol

For the Love of God. Please don't overhype him.

[ibraheim718]

Reason why there is no structure to offense is because Suggs and Cole don't provide one. Their main jobs as playmakers is to set offense. Instad, they are too busy calling own numbers all the time. Magic biggest chuckers are two guards. At average they take 28 shots a game.

It's seriously like you don't even watch the games. First of all for the first portion of the first quarter it's cole running the point and Suggs running to...... a wing where he waits for a dribble hand off.. almost like every possession... no PnR opps at the top of the key no nothing. Second of all when Suggs checks back in to give Cole his rest is when he runs the point from about the 2-3 minute mark in the 1st quarter until about the 8-9 minute mark in the 2nd quarter.. and during those minutes he makes a concerted effort to run the offense and get others involved whether it's hitting TRoss coming off of curls.. or finding a trailing Bamba or WCJ for 3's.. when he does "call his own" number they are drives attacking the basket. The offense looks crisper when Suggs is running the point and the ball moves because he doesn't pound it and move east-west like Cole does.. he's a north south attacker off the dribble.

Honestly.. I've been reading your posts and biting my tongue because I'm an outsider here but at some point some one is going to have call you out for your vague generalizations.

EDIT. And SMH at you trying to make it seem like 12 fga's for a guard in todays game is a chucker. lol

[RookieStar]

Reason why there is no structure to offense is because Suggs and Cole don't provide one. Their main jobs as playmakers is to set offense. Instad, they are too busy calling own numbers all the time. Magic biggest chuckers are two guards. At average they take 28 shots a game.

It's seriously like you don't even watch the games. First of all for the first portion of the first quarter it's cole running the point and Suggs running to...... a wing where he waits for a dribble hand off.. almost like every possession... no PnR opps at the top of the key no nothing. Second of all when Suggs checks back in to give Cole his rest is when he runs the point from about the 2-3 minute mark in the 1st quarter until about the 8-9 minute mark in the 2nd quarter.. and during those minutes he makes a concerted effort to run the offense and get others involved whether it's hitting TRoss coming off of curls.. or finding a trailing Bamba or WCJ for 3's.. when he does "call his own" number they are drives attacking the basket.

Honestly.. I've been reading your posts and biting my tongue because I'm an outsider here but at some point some one is going to have call you out for your vague generalizations.

Oh trust me.. we ALL know pepe's posting style. Its ummmm a different perspective to say the least. Kinda like a hater but you just balance it with his point... we certainly don't want this board to be all "yes men"

[VFX]

PG Markelle Fultz - Playmaker
SG Jaden Ivey - Superstar
SF Franz Wagner - X Factor
PF Jonathan Isaac - Defensive stopper
C Wendell Carter - Serviceable Big Man
6th Jalen Suggs - Scrappy 6th Man

Then get quality depth at the 7th and 8th depth spots.

You are overvaluing Fultz way too much to be placing him ahead of Suggs in a starting lineup.

The Front Office didn't just spend one of their only good picks to come off the bench splitting minutes with Cole Anthony.

So you believe Ivey is the superstar that is going to save Orlando's offense? Bold assumption but I guess it could be worse.

Also in what alternate reality is Jonathan Isaac starting for this team? Im assuming when he's healthy 20% of the time.

[pepe1991]

Reason why there is no structure to offense is because Suggs and Cole don't provide one. Their main jobs as playmakers is to set offense. Instad, they are too busy calling own numbers all the time. Magic biggest chuckers are two guards. At average they take 28 shots a game.

It's seriously like you don't even watch the games. First of all for the first portion of the first quarter it's cole running the point and Suggs running to...... a wing where he waits for a dribble hand off.. almost like every possession... no PnR opps at the top of the key no nothing. Second of all when Suggs checks back in to give Cole his rest is when he runs the point from about the 2-3 minute mark in the 1st quarter until about the 8-9 minute mark in the 2nd quarter.. and during those minutes he makes a concerted effort to run the offense and get others involved whether it's hitting TRoss coming off of curls.. or finding a trailing Bamba or WCJ for 3's.. when he does "call his own" number they are drives attacking the basket. The offense looks crisper when Suggs is running the point and the ball moves because he doesn't pound it and move east-west like Cole does.. he's a north south attacker off the dribble.

Honestly.. I've been reading your posts and biting my tongue because I'm an outsider here but at some point some one is going to have call you out for your vague generalizations.

EDIT. And SMH at you trying to make it seem like 12 fga's for a guard in todays game is a chucker. lol

Things you are "adressing" are irrelevent. Your whole first paragraph is about your perception of what you see. There is thiny little detail in it that you slipped. Fact that there is objective chance that you watch games, but don't understand what you see.
Jalen Suggs has pick& roll frequency of 30% , Cole 39%. In other words, during span of a game Cole is in around 7 possessions a game where he is being pick&roll ballhandler, Suggs 5.2
Cole's percentile makes him league's average pick&roll player ( actually bit above average, sitting at 53%).
Jalen Suggs percentile makes him bottom of nba, sitting at 12.
Jalen Suggs is shooting horrendhus 26% FG from pick&roll and has 20% turnover rate.

The offense looks crisper when Suggs is running the point and the ball moves because he doesn't pound it and move east-west like Cole does.

In general your post makes it sound like Suggs is doing amazing job running offense when he has a chance. That's factual lie.
Orlando Magic offensive rating without Jalen Suggs is 107,2.
Orlando Magic offensive rating with Jalen Suggs is 103,1.

As i said, you may watch it, but your don't process well what you see.

Cole for all **** he does, still proves to improve offense when he does play. ( 104,8 off, 105,5 with him in it ).

And SMH at you trying to make it seem like 12 fga's for a guard in todays game is a chucker.

Bro, why are you doing this to yourself? He has 25% usage rate. For sake of argument, Chris Paul this year has 19,7% usage rate.
Suggs finishes every 4th possession when he is on the floor with either: shot, turnover or pass for shooter. And he hasn't been good ( evdiences proved above ).

In this video, that lasts around 40 sec,everything you said above is being proved wrong by literally using last game as example. It's first quater, allegedly time when Cole is "playmaker" and Suggs isn't involved in pick&roll, it's Suggs, not Cole, calling his numbers and just randomlly taking bad shots. In first 4 min of basketball game Suggs already had 3 shots taken, 0 assists and 1 turnover. Four minutes.

In today's nba there are only 11 nba players with this perimeters: usage rate over 20%, negative net rating, turnover rate over 10 and true shooting percentage worst than 50%. Among those 11 players, Suggs has worst TS% , second highest turnover rate, second worst net rating and third worst assist to turnover rate ( first and second aren't PGs).
There is objective fact that Suggs is one of the worst starting players on offense in nba. This isn't arguable. YOu can deflact fact and reality by throwing typical "he is rookie" comment. He is. that doesn't change fact he has been awful. Even by rookie standards.

[Skin]

PG Markelle Fultz - Playmaker
SG Jaden Ivey - Superstar
SF Franz Wagner - X Factor
PF Jonathan Isaac - Defensive stopper
C Wendell Carter - Serviceable Big Man
6th Jalen Suggs - Scrappy 6th Man

Then get quality depth at the 7th and 8th depth spots.

You are overvaluing Fultz way too much to be placing him ahead of Suggs in a starting lineup.

The Front Office didn't just spend one of their only good picks to come off the bench splitting minutes with Cole Anthony.

So you believe Ivey is the superstar that is going to save Orlando's offense? Bold assumption but I guess it could be worse.

Also in what alternate reality is Jonathan Isaac starting for this team? Im assuming when he's healthy 20% of the time.

I am guilty of having an unhealthy bias towards Fultz. No apologizing there.

But he is better at being a PG than Suggs is. I really don't see it as the Magic using their pick last year to split time with Cole. I see him splitting time with Fultz and Ivey. Cole was a BPA pick and that's fine, but as I've mentioned in other threads, if the Magic are not going to draft for need, then they will need to make trades in order to build a functional roster.

You can't just draft BPA, BPA, BPA and expect it to work seamlessly. You have to shape your roster. Trading Cole is in the best interest of the Magic in the long run. It would be a Home Run! Nobody expected much out of a 16th pick, but the Magic got something from it. Unlike Suggs, there shouldn't be a strong tie to it because he wasn't acquired using a top pick. Trade Cole. Trade RJ. Trade anyone who isn't in the long term plans.

...and Ivey is THAT dude. He puts sooo much pressure on a defense. 3 level scorer. 2 way player. Smooth athleticism, good ball handler and passer. Not a tweener like the other top guys. He's a pure SG and he's gonna be an All Star sooner rather than later.

We never had a chance at Anthony Edwards. I wanted him so badly. I like Ivey more than I liked Edwards. Edwards didn't have the deep accuracy coming in. I think I want Ivey in the Magic uniform too badly. I just know we'll screw it up. Best I can hope is that Suggs improves his shot in 2-3 years.

[drsd]

Seriously? I'd trade one of our FRPs and young assets for some star this trade deadline or the offseason while drafting Top 5.

I am not saying I will expedite the rebuild process. But at least, we won't tank for 2 more years

They're only tanking one more year (next year) in my scenario.

2023-2024 would be a year to be competitive and try and make the playoffs.

YES !!!

I actually think the roster has talent and I totally agree that the Magic is only a growing-up year away from then spending on a good FA.

My view: if the Magic does not make the 2023-2024 playoffs, management must be fired. This is their team and this is the window to grow from bad to mediocre.

..

[jonbob17]

I wouldn't focus so much on age so much as the gap in experience, which matters a lot.

The Magic start...

2nd year at PG
Rookie at SG
Rookie at SF
4th year at PF
4th year at C
Combined experience: 12 years

Cavs start...

3rd year at PG
2nd year at SG (and are probably about to be replacing Okoro with 6th year player LeVert)
5th year at SF
Rookie at PF
5th year at C
Combined experience: 16 years (likely about to be 20)

Grizzlies start...

3rd year at PG
2nd year at SG
5th year at SF
4th year at PF
9th year at C
Combined experience: 23 years

A guy like Darius Garland was absolutely terrible as a rookie (-5.5 BPM, sub 50 TS%, -8.9 NET), but now in Year 3 he's an all-star.

He kept developing, kept improving and now he's great. The hope is that you'll see similar type of improvement out of Suggs from this year to year 2 and into year 3.

Morant was never bad, not even as a rookie, but he's still miles better in year 3 than he was in year 1. He was a very good rookie who has turned into an MVP caliber player.

Guys get better with more experience. Hopefully Suggs will do the same.

Point guards are notorious for slow starts/ bad rookie years. Even Trae, was terrible for the first half of his rookie season. Luka and Lamelo's recent success may be clouding our view of history and young lead guards.

Right now Suggs is being asked to do a lot that he has little experience and success in.
The efficiency is terrible, but the stroke looks fine, and i expect he will be able to shoot, and score at all three levels. The FT% is a little lower than you would like, but there are countless examples of players improving from the line and shooting in general over their career.

I have a feeling we are going to be ready to compete (towards the play in game) as early as next year. I don't see how we would even be able to mess around with a tank next season assuming JI is able to play at all, and projected improvement of the rookies and other young guys.
If we add anybody in free agency or through trade to a rotation that already includes: Suggs, Cole, Wagner, JI, WCJ, Okeke, 1st round pick, Fultz. That's a pretty good top 8 and one with a lot of room to improve.

[Optimus_Steel]

Its cleat that Suggs is on a much larger development curve than Franz which is why jumping to conclusions now makes no sense. If he is still showing no improvement in shooting, efficiency, ball handling at this time next year and starts looking like Hezonja then yea but right now too early. He has shown flashes of stuff to keep interest in his development.

[Knightro]

Point guards are notorious for slow starts/ bad rookie years. Even Trae, was terrible for the first half of his rookie season. Luka and Lamelo's recent success may be clouding our view of history and young lead guards.

Right now Suggs is being asked to do a lot that he has little experience and success in.
The efficiency is terrible, but the stroke looks fine, and i expect he will be able to shoot, and score at all three levels. The FT% is a little lower than you would like, but there are countless examples of players improving from the line and shooting in general over their career.

I have a feeling we are going to be ready to compete (towards the play in game) as early as next year. I don't see how we would even be able to mess around with a tank next season assuming JI is able to play at all, and projected improvement of the rookies and other young guys.
If we add anybody in free agency or through trade to a rotation that already includes: Suggs, Cole, Wagner, JI, WCJ, Okeke, 1st round pick, Fultz. That's a pretty good top 8 and one with a lot of room to improve.

I would imagine next year's rotation is going to look something like this...

Fultz/Suggs/Wagner/Isaac/Holmgren
Anthony/Hampton/Okeke/Carter

or

Fultz/Suggs/Wagner/Smith/Carter
Anthony/Hampton/Okeke/Isaac

or

Suggs/Ivey/Wagner/Isaac/Carter
Fultz/Anthony/Okeke/FA

But there will always be injuries, there's still a lack of shooting, and there's still legitimate questions about how things are going to shake out from a ball handling perspective with Fultz being added into the mix with Anthony/Suggs.

Plus they're gonna give big minutes to another rookie who isn't likely to be that good either.

It's still a tanking situation IMO unless they go nuts and offer someone a max this summer.

[tiderulz]

Its cleat that Suggs is on a much larger development curve than Franz which is why jumping to conclusions now makes no sense. If he is still showing no improvement in shooting, efficiency, ball handling at this time next year and starts looking like Hezonja then yea but right now too early. He has shown flashes of stuff to keep interest in his development.

except he has top level defense.

[thelead]

coming into this season i would not have expected scottie barnes would be shooting 32% from 3 and suggs would be shooting 24% lol yeeesh

The gap between Scottie's shooting (32) and Steph Curry's (38) is smaller than the gap from Suggs to Scottie

[basketballRob]

coming into this season i would not have expected scottie barnes would be shooting 32% from 3 and suggs would be shooting 24% lol yeeesh

The gap between Scottie's shooting (32) and Steph Curry's (38) is smaller than the gap from Suggs to Scottie

Curry would probably average 60% if he only took a couple 3 pointers per game when he was completely open and toe on the line. Suggs would average way more if he did that also.

PJ Tucker shoots 47% but I don't think he's a better shooter than Curry.

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[thelead]

coming into this season i would not have expected scottie barnes would be shooting 32% from 3 and suggs would be shooting 24% lol yeeesh

The gap between Scottie's shooting (32) and Steph Curry's (38) is smaller than the gap from Suggs to Scottie

Curry would probably average 60% if he only took a couple 3 pointers per game when he was completely open and toe on the line. Suggs would average way more if he did that also.

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Your opinion doesn't change the statistical fact though...