Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues

[Nemesis21]

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[FFBlitzace]

I'm a Vuc hater, but he's obviously a very good passing big man. That's not the problem.

There's maybe something to be said for asking guys what they like, and then not doing it. Because whatever habits and comfort levels they've established, they're probably mostly bad ones, given our results. Don't blow this statement out of proportion and say that I don't allow for Vuc to do anything right, even things I say he's good at. No, I'm just saying, at some point you have to stop doing the same things that you've been losing with for 6 years. Vuc being a good and willing passer = a positive thing. Basing our offense through Vuc again = sigh. "But he's our best offensive player." And here we reach the core of the disagreement.

[magicman112]

wow preseason games are here? when are we playing? anyone maade a GT already?

We play Philly on Monday night.

[pepe1991]

Yeah.

Thabeet spent 3 years at UConn. In that time he was a shot blocking nightmare from day-1 but little else until his junior year. It took Thabeet 2 full seasons to reach the point where his scoring and rebounding numbers matched what Bamba did straight out of the gates.

Oh, and Thabeet attempted a big fat ZERO 3’s in all three years combined. Bamba attempted 51 in the 30 games he played.

Bamba is WAAAAYY ahead of Thabeet in areas which made Thabeet such a high pick and already shows a more offensive range than Thabeet ever dreamt of.

Horrible comp.

Attempting 3's in game and making them are two different things. My reason for the comp is a guy who is valued for his size and potential yet at no level yet has shown the results to justify building a team around him. Bamba to me is still all potential and I have not seen any actual production from him to justify any confidence at this point. I wish we had not picked him - I know that isn't a popular position at this time but there it is.

Do you know that Bamba averaged more points, blocks and rebounds than Embiid did in their college seasons?

Is 3.7 blocks a game not actual production? How about 10.7 boards or 11 points? I am not sure how you can say you have not seen any actual production from him if you are aware of those numbers. Unless you just want to cast that blanket argument over every single 2018 rookie, since none of them have played one NBA game yet, your argument does not really make much sense.

Bamba clearly isn't Thabeet, but clearly isn't Embiid.
Joel played 23 mpg at college for 11 ppg, 8 rpg and 2,6 bpg (63% FG)
Bamba played 30,2 mp for 13 ppg, 10,5 rpg and 3,6 bpg (54%)

Bamba was clearly best ,most talented kid on a team where JoJo was in conversation for 1# overall pick with his teammate Wigginst who averaged most ppg and had highest usage rate.
Bamba was never viewed as potential 1# pick

Difference in 7 mpg ( basically 1 college quater, if they had any ) is difference in their raw production.

It's no secret that Joel saw huge improvments over years in nba but at college his comparison was Hakeem for good reason, skilled post scorer who can play great defense. He later learned how to shoot and lived up to Hakeem comparison (after all injuries were history ).

Bamba shooting 3s might be thing down the line, right now that part of his game is no factor ( 14-51 at college ) and it's pointless to put any weight on his shooting as a strenght.
I hope Bamba's ceiling is Embiid and his floor is Gobert That would mean this team has star player.

[DiplomaticMagic]

Clifford told Vuc that he thinks hes's a pretty good defender, it's going to be a long season boys.

[pepe1991]

Clifford told Vuc that he thinks hes's a pretty good defender, it's going to be a long season boys.

It will be hilarious if Vuc has allstar season (20-10-4 on 35-38 wins should do it ) and goes for nothing next summer

[SOUL]

I'm a Vuc hater, but he's obviously a very good passing big man. That's not the problem.

There's maybe something to be said for asking guys what they like, and then not doing it. Because whatever habits and comfort levels they've established, they're probably mostly bad ones, given our results. Don't blow this statement out of proportion and say that I don't allow for Vuc to do anything right, even things I say he's good at. No, I'm just saying, at some point you have to stop doing the same things that you've been losing with for 6 years. Vuc being a good and willing passer = a positive thing. Basing our offense through Vuc again = sigh. "But he's our best offensive player." And here we reach the core of the disagreement.

People don't seem to understand this. He's good enough that if we give him the same opportunities and role that he will put up numbers and it's not like it's going to be a mess or anything, it just isn't anything close enough to make us even a competent playoff team, let alone a contender. Yes, the argument is "nobody else on the roster will be able to do that either!" but we actually don't know that without TRYING. If we're continuing to run the offense year after year with Vuc at the helm and getting similar results, that should be enough proof that we should switch it up a bit. And like I brought up earlier, Gordon's "bad" offensive year last year (according to some) saw him having .2 more attempts and scoring almost over a point more, IIRC, than Vuc.

[Knightro]

If you have an issue with the plan, that's one thing. I can understand the frustration with chasing 35 wins.

But it really should be beyond obvious at this point that Clifford and the front office want to squeeze as many wins out of this roster as they possibly can.

This isn't a tanking situation. It's not an evaluation situation either. Clifford is going to lean hard on his veteran starters.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Not surprised.

Yes, I'm sure the truth does hurt for his haters...

Yeah. They hate that players and coaches like him and that hes successful. Theyd actually rather we lose if it meant he played bad because they want him to fail. Pretty pathetic.

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[j-ragg]

Centers that are elite offensively and score 18 points on 17 shots don't grow on trees. We should all be a little more supportive.

[yoyojw17]

Attempting 3's in game and making them are two different things. My reason for the comp is a guy who is valued for his size and potential yet at no level yet has shown the results to justify building a team around him. Bamba to me is still all potential and I have not seen any actual production from him to justify any confidence at this point. I wish we had not picked him - I know that isn't a popular position at this time but there it is.

Do you know that Bamba averaged more points, blocks and rebounds than Embiid did in their college seasons?

Is 3.7 blocks a game not actual production? How about 10.7 boards or 11 points? I am not sure how you can say you have not seen any actual production from him if you are aware of those numbers. Unless you just want to cast that blanket argument over every single 2018 rookie, since none of them have played one NBA game yet, your argument does not really make much sense.

Bamba clearly isn't Thabeet, but clearly isn't Embiid.
Joel played 23 mpg at college for 11 ppg, 8 rpg and 2,6 bpg (63% FG)
Bamba played 30,2 mp for 13 ppg, 10,5 rpg and 3,6 bpg (54%)

Bamba was clearly best ,most talented kid on a team where JoJo was in conversation for 1# overall pick with his teammate Wigginst who averaged most ppg and had highest usage rate.
Bamba was never viewed as potential 1# pick

Difference in 7 mpg ( basically 1 college quater, if they had any ) is difference in their raw production.

It's no secret that Joel saw huge improvments over years in nba but at college his comparison was Hakeem for good reason, skilled post scorer who can play great defense. He later learned how to shoot and lived up to Hakeem comparison (after all injuries were history ).

Bamba shooting 3s might be thing down the line, right now that part of his game is no factor ( 14-51 at college ) and it's pointless to put any weight on his shooting as a strenght.
I hope Bamba's ceiling is Embiid and his floor is Gobert That would mean this team has star player.

Actually i remember this being a possibility for like.... a quick second. lol. but yes... you're right.

Gobert with a lil more offense is worth a ton. lol. If he just becomes a big that cleans up in the paint as a lob target etc., makes open jumpers , can make defenses honest at all times along with being defensive nightmare.... i would be happy with that floor. That is something i can most definitely see happening. anything else is icing on the cake. and i love me some icing. hence the reason i need to hit the gym. lol

[PennytoShaq]

Attempting 3's in game and making them are two different things. My reason for the comp is a guy who is valued for his size and potential yet at no level yet has shown the results to justify building a team around him. Bamba to me is still all potential and I have not seen any actual production from him to justify any confidence at this point. I wish we had not picked him - I know that isn't a popular position at this time but there it is.

Do you know that Bamba averaged more points, blocks and rebounds than Embiid did in their college seasons?

Is 3.7 blocks a game not actual production? How about 10.7 boards or 11 points? I am not sure how you can say you have not seen any actual production from him if you are aware of those numbers. Unless you just want to cast that blanket argument over every single 2018 rookie, since none of them have played one NBA game yet, your argument does not really make much sense.

Bamba clearly isn't Thabeet, but clearly isn't Embiid.
Joel played 23 mpg at college for 11 ppg, 8 rpg and 2,6 bpg (63% FG)
Bamba played 30,2 mp for 13 ppg, 10,5 rpg and 3,6 bpg (54%)

Bamba was clearly best ,most talented kid on a team where JoJo was in conversation for 1# overall pick with his teammate Wigginst who averaged most ppg and had highest usage rate.
Bamba was never viewed as potential 1# pick

Difference in 7 mpg ( basically 1 college quater, if they had any ) is difference in their raw production.

It's no secret that Joel saw huge improvments over years in nba but at college his comparison was Hakeem for good reason, skilled post scorer who can play great defense. He later learned how to shoot and lived up to Hakeem comparison (after all injuries were history ).

Bamba shooting 3s might be thing down the line, right now that part of his game is no factor ( 14-51 at college ) and it's pointless to put any weight on his shooting as a strenght.
I hope Bamba's ceiling is Embiid and his floor is Gobert That would mean this team has star player.

Yeah im not even saying bamba is embiid, but simply that he produced as a college freshman.

We also dont know what bamba could be yet. For a little while in the nba, embiid looked like an overweight injured guy. So you never know. Especially with big guys. I just hope Bamba stays healthy so he can log minutes.

[yoyojw17]

Centers that are elite offensively and score 18 points on 17 shots don't grow on trees. We should all be a little more supportive.

https://orlandomagicdaily.com/2018/09/27/one-of-orlando-magics-goals-return-nikola-vucevic-to-the-post/

Well.... shooting 47.5% as a bigman isn't bad at all.... when only 21.3% of your shots come within comes within 3 ft of the basket (where you shoot an impressive 75% last season). And taking so many jumpers does not help your trips to the line.

If people are pissed by his stats... why so much love for porzingiz? lol ... 22pnt shooting less that 44% from the field on 18.5 shots... and rebounds as good as a small forward. don't get me wrong... love the guy too... but why does he get a pass.

I think that everyone is so enamored by bigs that shoot 3's that they forget that there still other aspects of the game that can still be effetive when throne into the mix. Happy to see Cliff trying to reincorporate this back into his game. 60% from the post and the other 40% from jumpers (mainly 3's) would be a healthy diet.

[yoyojw17]

Do you know that Bamba averaged more points, blocks and rebounds than Embiid did in their college seasons?

Is 3.7 blocks a game not actual production? How about 10.7 boards or 11 points? I am not sure how you can say you have not seen any actual production from him if you are aware of those numbers. Unless you just want to cast that blanket argument over every single 2018 rookie, since none of them have played one NBA game yet, your argument does not really make much sense.

Bamba clearly isn't Thabeet, but clearly isn't Embiid.
Joel played 23 mpg at college for 11 ppg, 8 rpg and 2,6 bpg (63% FG)
Bamba played 30,2 mp for 13 ppg, 10,5 rpg and 3,6 bpg (54%)

Bamba was clearly best ,most talented kid on a team where JoJo was in conversation for 1# overall pick with his teammate Wigginst who averaged most ppg and had highest usage rate.
Bamba was never viewed as potential 1# pick

Difference in 7 mpg ( basically 1 college quater, if they had any ) is difference in their raw production.

It's no secret that Joel saw huge improvments over years in nba but at college his comparison was Hakeem for good reason, skilled post scorer who can play great defense. He later learned how to shoot and lived up to Hakeem comparison (after all injuries were history ).

Bamba shooting 3s might be thing down the line, right now that part of his game is no factor ( 14-51 at college ) and it's pointless to put any weight on his shooting as a strenght.
I hope Bamba's ceiling is Embiid and his floor is Gobert That would mean this team has star player.

Yeah im not even saying bamba is embiid, but simply that he produced as a college freshman.

We also dont know what bamba could be yet. For a little while in the nba, embiid looked like an overweight injured guy. So you never know. Especially with big guys. I just hope Bamba stays healthy so he can log minutes.

true! and nor can we an we analyze these players careers so far in a vacuum. Playing on a talented kansas team and a deprive texas team are 2 totally different things. Lawd knows how bamba would have played if he had 3 other future NBA player son his team. What he becomes in the NBA is yet to be seen.... and that's why i can't wait till monday!

[pepe1991]

Bamba clearly isn't Thabeet, but clearly isn't Embiid.
Joel played 23 mpg at college for 11 ppg, 8 rpg and 2,6 bpg (63% FG)
Bamba played 30,2 mp for 13 ppg, 10,5 rpg and 3,6 bpg (54%)

Bamba was clearly best ,most talented kid on a team where JoJo was in conversation for 1# overall pick with his teammate Wigginst who averaged most ppg and had highest usage rate.
Bamba was never viewed as potential 1# pick

Difference in 7 mpg ( basically 1 college quater, if they had any ) is difference in their raw production.

It's no secret that Joel saw huge improvments over years in nba but at college his comparison was Hakeem for good reason, skilled post scorer who can play great defense. He later learned how to shoot and lived up to Hakeem comparison (after all injuries were history ).

Bamba shooting 3s might be thing down the line, right now that part of his game is no factor ( 14-51 at college ) and it's pointless to put any weight on his shooting as a strenght.
I hope Bamba's ceiling is Embiid and his floor is Gobert That would mean this team has star player.

Yeah im not even saying bamba is embiid, but simply that he produced as a college freshman.

We also dont know what bamba could be yet. For a little while in the nba, embiid looked like an overweight injured guy. So you never know. Especially with big guys. I just hope Bamba stays healthy so he can log minutes.

true! and nor can we an we analyze these players careers so far in a vacuum. Playing on a talented kansas team and a deprive texas team are 2 totally different things. Lawd knows how bamba would have played if he had 3 other future NBA player son his team. What he becomes in the NBA is yet to be seen.... and that's why i can't wait till monday!

Yea i was not disagreeing with you Penny just pointing out why Bamba had better raw stats.

But in general it's hard for any big man to reach Embiid's level. Guy is physical specimen,strong and skilled.
He is first player in history to record 46 points, 15 rebounds 7 assists and 7 blocks in single game since blocks started to count in 74 lol.
I would be fine with Bamba being Vučević on offense but with elite defense. Would not bother me at all. I just don't want to see him standing every game on 3 point line like he is guard and having 41% FG seasons " to streach floor" just because others are not good enough to create space.

[yoyojw17]

Yeah im not even saying bamba is embiid, but simply that he produced as a college freshman.

We also dont know what bamba could be yet. For a little while in the nba, embiid looked like an overweight injured guy. So you never know. Especially with big guys. I just hope Bamba stays healthy so he can log minutes.

true! and nor can we an we analyze these players careers so far in a vacuum. Playing on a talented kansas team and a deprive texas team are 2 totally different things. Lawd knows how bamba would have played if he had 3 other future NBA player son his team. What he becomes in the NBA is yet to be seen.... and that's why i can't wait till monday!

Yea i was not disagreeing with you Penny just pointing out why Bamba had better raw stats.

But in general it's hard for any big man to reach Embiid's level. Guy is physical specimen,strong and skilled.
He is first player in history to record 46 points, 15 rebounds 7 assists and 7 blocks in single game since blocks started to count in 74 lol.
I would be fine with Bamba being Vučević on offense but with elite defense. Would not bother me at all. I just don't want to see him standing every game on 3 point line like he is guard and having 41% FG seasons " to streach floor" just because others are not good enough to create space.

That's a perennial Allstar. lol. I'll take it!

[Furinkazan]

Yes, I'm sure the truth does hurt for his haters...

Yeah. They hate that players and coaches like him and that hes successful. Theyd actually rather we lose if it meant he played bad because they want him to fail. Pretty pathetic.

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stay strong

[VFX]

Yes, I'm sure the truth does hurt for his haters...

Yeah. They hate that players and coaches like him and that hes successful. Theyd actually rather we lose if it meant he played bad because they want him to fail. Pretty pathetic.

Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

Nobody wants Vuc to fail. People are tired of watching Orlando struggle offensively every year, while dinosaur coaches lean on Vuc’s outdated play to produce half-assed wins. At the most he’s a decent starter or 6th man for a good team and not a go-to guy for a bad one.

Vuc is like aspirin, he will get you through the day but he isn’t actually helping solve the problem that you need your leg amputated. If he was as good a player as people claim, he would have enough trade value to actually be off this roster. There is no market for Vuc... because it’s 2018

[Blue_and_Whte]

Yes, I'm sure the truth does hurt for his haters...

Yeah. They hate that players and coaches like him and that hes successful. Theyd actually rather we lose if it meant he played bad because they want him to fail. Pretty pathetic.

Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

stay strong

Thanks for identifying yourself.

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[Blue_and_Whte]

Yes, I'm sure the truth does hurt for his haters...

Yeah. They hate that players and coaches like him and that hes successful. Theyd actually rather we lose if it meant he played bad because they want him to fail. Pretty pathetic.

Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

Nobody wants Vuc to fail. People are tired of watching Orlando struggle offensively every year, while dinosaur coaches lean on Vuc’s outdated play to produce half-assed wins. At the most he’s a decent starter or 6th man for a good team and not a go-to guy for a bad one.

Vuc is like aspirin, he will get you through the day but he isn’t actually helping solve the problem that you need your leg amputated. If he was as good a player as people claim, he would have enough trade value to actually be off this roster. There is no market for Vuc... because it’s 2018

Agree 100% and it applies to everyone on this roster. Running the offense
Through anyone else would either make us worse or the same.
Two people posted gifs of characters shooting themselves in the mouth after reading a comment saying that all the guys like playing with him. If that were in reference to any other player they'd be gushing. So don't tell me nobody wants to see him fail.
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