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Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team"

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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#1141 » by yoyojw17 » Sat Dec 5, 2020 6:28 pm

drsd wrote:I am in a Homer mood right now.

The what-if game.

What if all of these things come to pass:

Fultz fits 37% of his three balls whilst shooting 4 a game; and all other parts of his game have modest improvements.
Bamba develops in to a consistent backup that offers positive plus/minus scoring minutes.
Gordon and Vučević do not decline.
Fournier plays his heart out in a contract year.
Ennis does not suck as a starter.
The bench scores more than last year without giving anything up on defense.
Okeke and Anthony have a positive impact on the team.

Then what? Could a 40-32 record be the absolute upside for this team???
Here is hoping the answer is a BIG yes.


..

NOt a homer in my book. that's what i believe will happen... maybe 35% for fultz. lol
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#1142 » by D12VCMagic » Sat Dec 5, 2020 8:17 pm

j-ragg wrote:I love that Zach Lowe calls us the Orlando Inertia. National media is finally catching on to how little this front office does.


I hope some national pressure falls on the FO this year. But I doubt it.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#1143 » by zaymon » Sat Dec 5, 2020 9:32 pm

Everybody on this board should watch todays Clifford interview, especially the end.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#1144 » by JojoSlimbiid » Sat Dec 5, 2020 9:38 pm

zaymon wrote:Everybody on this board should watch todays Clifford interview, especially the end.



Is that about Bamba? Jesus he pretty much he was shyt.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#1145 » by The Real Dalic » Sat Dec 5, 2020 9:50 pm

zaymon wrote:Everybody on this board should watch todays Clifford interview, especially the end.

Great video. Thanks for sharing!

I personally love Cliff and have very little problems with how he coaches.

For the people on this board, watch from 7:50 in all the way till the end if you want to see what zaymon is talking about without having to watch the entire thing. It's essentially about young players and playing times. It feels like he's talking directly to most people here. It doesn't matter whether you agree or disagree with him, I think most should just listen to his mindset on playing young players.

For the record, I don't 100% agree with him on it. But I do agree a bit. Some players just shouldn't play during bad stretches, some show they can play through them. It depends on the player/person. But interested in what most have to say about that on here.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#1146 » by The Real Dalic » Sat Dec 5, 2020 9:51 pm

JojoSlimbiid wrote:
zaymon wrote:Everybody on this board should watch todays Clifford interview, especially the end.



Is that about Bamba? Jesus he pretty much he was shyt.

Didn't even think about him. It could be, but he could just mean in general as well.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#1147 » by SOUL » Sat Dec 5, 2020 10:00 pm

I don't think he would call someone he's coaching "bad", especially Bamba who said good things about Cliff.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#1148 » by basketballRob » Sat Dec 5, 2020 10:26 pm

I think he said that young players have to learn to earn playing time or it could ruin them.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#1149 » by Dub_Sax » Sat Dec 5, 2020 10:58 pm

basketballRob wrote:I think he said that young players have to learn to earn playing time or it could ruin them.

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Yep. And first name that came to mind was Elfrid Payton.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#1150 » by Xatticus » Sat Dec 5, 2020 11:15 pm

It's what I expected to hear. It isn't what I wanted to hear. My translation would be that Clifford feels he needs to break guys down and get them to do what he wants them to do to give them playing time. Coming from another coach, this might resonate on some level, but Clifford simply doesn't have the track record of coaching competitive teams or of developing young talent, so it is really difficult for me to give credence to his methods. He has turned every prospect he has ever coached into a role player, save for Kemba. If this came from Mike Malone, I'd defer to his expertise.

The major issue I have with his approach is that it is really condescending towards the players he is coaching. I don't like the idea of using floor time and the bench as the carrot and stick. Players want to get better or they don't. You aren't going to rewire someone's brain by making them sit on a bench. You give these players the resources and the guidance that they need to maximize whatever potential they have. If they get on well, terrific. If they don't, you move on, but at least you know where you stand. He can attempt to refute the notion that playing time aids in development, but he is fighting a losing battle. We know playing time aids development. This is why it is incorporated into statistical projections.

I think Clifford is a disciplinarian that utilizes hierarchies to effect his methods. He is fairly diplomatic about it, but that doesn't make me detest it any less.

And I want to be clear on a specific point: I'm far less critical of Clifford actually playing young players than I am with Clifford not trusting those players. Fultz and Isaac were starting games long before they were allowed to finish them. I want our young players involved in the offense. I want them making decisions with the ball in their hands. I don't want them out there simply to watch Evan and Vucevic run buddy ball and cover for their defensive deficiencies.

As it pertains to Bamba though, I think it's rather obvious that Clifford does not want to play him. I think it was fairly obvious he was talking about Bamba. Perhaps not directly, in this instance, but certainly in reference to the conversation he had with the NFL coach. This is very problematic to me. Clifford still believes it is all about the X's and O's. That's great if your goal is to win 45% of your games. For as much as we have sucked for the past decade, at no point did I ever envy the Charlotte Bobcats/Hornets.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#1151 » by pepe1991 » Sat Dec 5, 2020 11:48 pm

Clifford pretty open and honest interview about players getting PT only because of their draft stock and after few games it gets obvious they are not good. And keep playing them and awarding their s***y performance with PT won't help them learn anything.

JJ Redick didn't get into serious rotation for years. Improved, got better, worked harder, found his spot. Guy is close to 40 and still plays as rotation peace, even starter.
Brandon Jennings 32 mpg in rookie year, unlimited usage, flamed out from nba in 7 years.
OJ Mayo from 2 first years starting 100% of games, riding 38 mpg to... bench player, to abusing supstances and being banned by nba in 7 years.

Payton was Magic starter because coaches were forces to start him. 7 years later guy is starter on team that has every intention to lose every game. And to this date he is yet to play on a team that is even in playoff picture after first month of basketball is over. Did starting 331 of 380 games helped him develop int better player? Noup, his TS% in rookie year ( pathetic 45,6%) is very close to TS% in 6th year ( 47%, still very pathetic).
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#1152 » by Bakomagic » Sat Dec 5, 2020 11:48 pm

Xatticus wrote:It's what I expected to hear. It isn't what I wanted to hear. My translation would be that Clifford feels he needs to break guys down and get them to do what he wants them to do to give them playing time. Coming from another coach, this might resonate on some level, but Clifford simply doesn't have the track record of coaching competitive teams or of developing young talent, so it is really difficult for me to give credence to his methods. He has turned every prospect he has ever coached into a role player, save for Kemba. If this came from Mike Malone, I'd defer to his expertise.

The major issue I have with his approach is that it is really condescending towards the players he is coaching. I don't like the idea of using floor time and the bench as the carrot and stick. Players want to get better or they don't. You aren't going to rewire someone's brain by making them sit on a bench. You give these players the resources and the guidance that they need to maximize whatever potential they have. If they get on well, terrific. If they don't, you move on, but at least you know where you stand. He can attempt to refute the notion that playing time aids in development, but he is fighting a losing battle. We know playing time aids development. This is why it is incorporated into statistical projections.

I think Clifford is a disciplinarian that utilizes hierarchies to effect his methods. He is fairly diplomatic about it, but that doesn't make me detest it any less.

And I want to be clear on a specific point: I'm far less critical of Clifford actually playing young players than I am with Clifford not trusting those players. Fultz and Isaac were starting games long before they were allowed to finish them. I want our young players involved in the offense. I want them making decisions with the ball in their hands. I don't want them out there simply to watch Evan and Vucevic run buddy ball and cover for their defensive deficiencies.

As it pertains to Bamba though, I think it's rather obvious that Clifford does not want to play him. I think it was fairly obvious he was talking about Bamba. Perhaps not directly, in this instance, but certainly in reference to the conversation he had with the NFL coach. This is very problematic to me. Clifford still believes it is all about the X's and O's. That's great if your goal is to win 45% of your games. For as much as we have sucked for the past decade, at no point did I ever envy the Charlotte Bobcats/Hornets.


Well said !
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#1153 » by basketballRob » Sun Dec 6, 2020 1:03 am

Amile signed an exhibit 10 contract with the Celtics.


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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#1154 » by basketballRob » Sun Dec 6, 2020 1:18 am

OKC signed Frazier.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#1155 » by purpleswordfish » Sun Dec 6, 2020 1:33 am

Personally, I totally understand what Clifford is saying about playing time as it pertains to the Magic. Head coaches are hired to win games. That's it. They are hired/fired based on wins. Of course he'll play the veteran hands if it equates to more wins.

The last coach that was hired to develop players regardless of winning was Jacque Vaughn. Of course this board wanted him fired for not winning enough. No pun intended, but there is no winning with this fanbase. The coach is always the "problem."
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#1156 » by Gomagic44 » Sun Dec 6, 2020 2:02 am

Ironically there is no winning with this organization for the past decade. Can you believe many fans are upset? The point is to win it all or try. Do you look at the magic for the past 10 years and see a winning product? A winning strategy? A clear direction? I don't!
purpleswordfish wrote:Personally, I totally understand what Clifford is saying about playing time as it pertains to the Magic. Head coaches are hired to win games. That's it. They are hired/fired based on wins. Of course he'll play the veteran hands if it equates to more wins.

The last coach that was hired to develop players regardless of winning was Jacque Vaughn. Of course this board wanted him fired for not winning enough. No pun intended, but there is no winning with this fanbase. The coach is always the "problem."


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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#1157 » by VFX » Sun Dec 6, 2020 2:10 am

Clifford will play all the vets, as many minutes as possible, if it equals wins.

Ownership’s goal is to be a playoff team regardless of future impact. Every decision this FO has made has proven that to be the case.

I’m not expecting Clifford to play Okeke, Bamba, and Cole a ton of minutes. This team is purgatory with Fournier, Ennis, AG, and Vuc as starters.

There is nothing exciting about it. There is a reason Orlando is one of the 5 teams without Nationally Televised games.

It’s massively predictable and boring.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#1158 » by jonbob17 » Sun Dec 6, 2020 2:38 am

When we hired Clifford the rhetoric was that Clifford gets the most out of his players and he grinds and grinds, and he gets about 4 years until the players have just had enough of him. We are starting year 3.
I think he is a fine coach. I would like to see what he could accomplish with some talent. We aren't getting anywhere with what we have, just like Charlotte didn't get anywhere when Clifford was there. Coaches can only do so much...it takes talent...cough..Vogel...
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#1159 » by Bensational » Sun Dec 6, 2020 2:43 am

I agree with what some of Clifford said and think other things are more of a case by case matter. Payton, for example, never seemed to develop that need to compete for his minutes after being gifted a big role early on.

That said, Bamba has never been gifted big minutes, and his good performances are rarely rewarded with a larger role. Bamba seems to be the only guy Cliff isn't happy with. I get it, because Mo does leave a lot to be desired, but 3 years in if he doesn't respond to the methods being employed it's either time for a new approach or time to move on for the best interest of both parties.

I feel like Mo demands a trade this season if his minutes don't go up.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team" 

Post#1160 » by jonbob17 » Sun Dec 6, 2020 2:50 am

I was watching that movie Moneyball recently, with Art Howe refusing to play the players and the direction the GM gave him. He was like when I get fired I can say in my interviews I put the best line up out there. All I could think is Phillip Seymour Hoffman could have shaved his head/lost some weight and looked just like Clifford.

We need Billy Beane in the FO.

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