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Who do you want us to take at #1?

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Who would you take at #1?

Jabari smith
111
51%
Chet Holmgren
63
29%
Paolo Banchero
27
13%
Jaden Ivey
1
0%
Keegan Murray
1
0%
Shaedon Sharpe
8
4%
Other
5
2%
 
Total votes: 216

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Re: Who do you want us to take at #1? 

Post#1141 » by zaymon » Mon Jun 6, 2022 8:13 pm

thelead wrote:
zaymon wrote:
ZeusIsLoose wrote:dude, durant didnt get out of round 2 either. stop with the ncaa tourney success. also, did you see what auburn was rolling with outside of jabari? doubt they make the tourney without him.


I am sorry that we dont have 10 years of nba level data on prospects. Best we have is college sample. Gelbe made some statements and current data while small shows something different so i pointed that out. Why he can be convinced about something without any proof and i can be sceptical about something with some proof ?

He's got a point though. Kevin Durant played with two other 1st round talent starters on that Texas team and still lost in the tournament (DJ Augustine was the 9th pick, Damion Jones was the 24th pick, and Dexter Pittman was a second rounder as well). That's not a knock on KD and it shouldn't be a knock on Jabari either.


Durant scored 27 pts in the first game and 30 in the second while shooting 2/13 from 3. He was over 60% from 2 and 24 ft.
Smith scored 20 pts and 10 pts, 12 ft and 28,5% from 2.
You obviously cant assume Jabari will contribute more to winning than Banchero. Its subjective opinion without any base in reality.
My money is on Banchero going number 1 !
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Re: Who do you want us to take at #1? 

Post#1142 » by thelead » Mon Jun 6, 2022 8:24 pm

zaymon wrote:
thelead wrote:
zaymon wrote:
I am sorry that we dont have 10 years of nba level data on prospects. Best we have is college sample. Gelbe made some statements and current data while small shows something different so i pointed that out. Why he can be convinced about something without any proof and i can be sceptical about something with some proof ?

He's got a point though. Kevin Durant played with two other 1st round talent starters on that Texas team and still lost in the tournament (DJ Augustine was the 9th pick, Damion Jones was the 24th pick, and Dexter Pittman was a second rounder as well). That's not a knock on KD and it shouldn't be a knock on Jabari either.


Durant scored 27 pts in the first game and 30 in the second while shooting 2/13 from 3. He was over 60% from 2 and 24 ft.
Smith scored 20 pts and 10 pts, 12 ft and 28,5% from 2.
You obviously cant assume Jabari will contribute more to winning than Banchero. Its subjective opinion without any base in reality.


Well, obviously I'm not comparing Jabari to KD. I'm comparing the situations. I've said multiple times, for months on end, that I think it's a weak draft. If I thought Jabari was as good of a prospect as KD, I wouldn't be calling it a weak draft. And while I have Jabari at #1, I won't blink an eye if we draft Paolo or Chet. Now.... if we don't draft him and Jabari is the best player 5 years from now... I may say something :lol:
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Re: Who do you want us to take at #1? 

Post#1143 » by swarlesbarkley » Mon Jun 6, 2022 8:58 pm

basketballRob wrote:Latest betting line.

https://sportsbook.fanduel.com/navigation/nba?tab=nba-draft

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Why do you keep posting this? You know it has very little to do with what teams are going to do, right?

Betting odds are based on what the public is betting, not some Vegas insider knowledge.
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Re: Who do you want us to take at #1? 

Post#1144 » by tiderulz » Mon Jun 6, 2022 9:10 pm

GelbeWand09 wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:I like Paolo, but I'm not buying the Tatum comps. I really don't think he has the burst/quickness to be the jumbo wing many people seem to think he will be at the next level.

He's a clear 4/5, && I do have concerns about what kind of tangible impact he will have due to some of his shooting/defensive questions. His ftr is also not as high as you would expect it to be for his physical playing style. In fact, Jabari gets labeled as the one-dimensional chucker, but he had a higher FTR than both Chet and Paolo last year, which is something I value highly in players at the next level.

I really think Jabari is a much more comparable player to Tatum than Banchero is, though Tatum is not a perfect comp for him either. When you pit the stats up against each other, they are nearly identical (including FTR). Tatum was not a playmaker In college. It was a skill he developed 4-5 years into his professional career. Which gives me hope for Jabari.

Tatum had a clear edge in ball-handling/finishing at this stage, but there is a lot of back-to-the-basket/post catches that Tatum does to get into his offense (jab steps, step backs, drives to the basket) that I think Jabari should model his game after.


Yea i think Paolo tries to play like him & on college level it works somehow (with mediocre eff.), but i just have a hard time to believe it works in the NBA. At least not as a high volume / high eff. offensive hub. He would be by far the heaviest (except older LeBron, who is a freak athlete), the slowest, least explosive of all the 3 level scoring wings. The guys who are not great athletes like Luka or Tatum are still more explosive than Paolo + have more advanced handles. Luka even uses his body much more to bully defenders than Paolo against college competition. Tatum got better wingspan for his position & finishes alot layups because of his length. Cade isnt really athletic too, but he projects to be a much better shooter.

I dont say it cant work, but so far we have no succesful prototypes & i didnt even include the defense yet.

In general the top 3 are really hard to compare to other players. They are all kinda unique playertypes.
A 6-10 guy who is maybe one of the best shooters day 1 he enters the NBA & who is really good at generating his own shot in a limited space (unlike Klay or Shard), but cant drive or finish at the hoop.
A skilled 2 way 7'' big who weighs less than 200 pounds.
A 6-10 / 250 pound guy, with kinda average athletic abilities, trying to play like a scoring wing.

ive seen the videos when Paolo was about 15-20 lbs lighter and liked him. Also, Paolo's wingspan is over 7', Tatum under 7'.
1 - i would push back that Jabari is really good at generating his own shot. he can take a shot while crowded, if that is what you mean.
3 - Paolo is actually above average athletically, at least if you believe all the scouts. and he doesnt try to play like a wing, he just plays. looks like he prefers to pound the post, but can shoot from the outside and a very good passer.
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Re: Who do you want us to take at #1? 

Post#1145 » by fateis007 » Mon Jun 6, 2022 9:18 pm

GelbeWand09 wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:I like Paolo, but I'm not buying the Tatum comps. I really don't think he has the burst/quickness to be the jumbo wing many people seem to think he will be at the next level.

He's a clear 4/5, && I do have concerns about what kind of tangible impact he will have due to some of his shooting/defensive questions. His ftr is also not as high as you would expect it to be for his physical playing style. In fact, Jabari gets labeled as the one-dimensional chucker, but he had a higher FTR than both Chet and Paolo last year, which is something I value highly in players at the next level.

I really think Jabari is a much more comparable player to Tatum than Banchero is, though Tatum is not a perfect comp for him either. When you pit the stats up against each other, they are nearly identical (including FTR). Tatum was not a playmaker In college. It was a skill he developed 4-5 years into his professional career. Which gives me hope for Jabari.

Tatum had a clear edge in ball-handling/finishing at this stage, but there is a lot of back-to-the-basket/post catches that Tatum does to get into his offense (jab steps, step backs, drives to the basket) that I think Jabari should model his game after.


Yea i think Paolo tries to play like him & on college level it works somehow (with mediocre eff.), but i just have a hard time to believe it works in the NBA. At least not as a high volume / high eff. offensive hub. He would be by far the heaviest (except older LeBron, who is a freak athlete), the slowest, least explosive of all the 3 level scoring wings. The guys who are not great athletes like Luka or Tatum are still more explosive than Paolo + have more advanced handles. Luka even uses his body much more to bully defenders than Paolo against college competition. Tatum got better wingspan for his position & finishes alot layups because of his length. Cade isnt really athletic too, but he projects to be a much better shooter.

I dont say it cant work, but so far we have no succesful prototypes & i didnt even include the defense yet.

In general the top 3 are really hard to compare to other players. They are all kinda unique playertypes.
A 6-10 guy who is maybe one of the best shooters day 1 he enters the NBA & who is really good at generating his own shot in a limited space (unlike Klay or Shard), but cant drive or finish at the hoop.
A skilled 2 way 7'' big who weighs less than 200 pounds.
A 6-10 / 250 pound guy, with kinda average athletic abilities, trying to play like a scoring wing.


Now people are just reaching. He has a 41 inch vert tested at duke. Dude is easily the most explosive of the top 3. If anyone of the top 3's "physicality" is going to transfer over, it's his. He doesn't need to grow into anything, he's already explosive and huge, and the best handle/play maker of the group. People act like this kid was flat footed and just using strength. Like watch a few games atleast.

You are drafting jabari/chet DREAMING they can handle the ball and make plays like him one day, but at this point, they haven't even shown they can run a pick and roll, so they are protypical big men. 3 and D guys.
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Re: Who do you want us to take at #1? 

Post#1146 » by The-Stallion70 » Mon Jun 6, 2022 11:20 pm

After considering it myself and acknowledging that Orlando is in a desirable position with assets, picks, young players etc, I think there is a chance that we get aggressive and make a move on draft night that makes the team immediately more competitive.

Whether it's for something like Lillard/Beal is beyond me but after hearing comments from Hammond and Weltman stating that they would like to do something like that and upon considering that we have assets that teams often do want when rebuilding, it is a possibility.
California Gold wrote:This is extra because people hate the Lakers and their brand so much.

This trade wasn't some conspiracy - it was just a GM wanting AD bad enough where in most people's eyes he overpaid by a long shot to get him.
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Re: Who do you want us to take at #1? 

Post#1147 » by Magic_Kingdom » Tue Jun 7, 2022 1:00 am

The-Stallion70 wrote:After considering it myself and acknowledging that Orlando is in a desirable position with assets, picks, young players etc, I think there is a chance that we get aggressive and make a move on draft night that makes the team immediately more competitive.

Whether it's for something like Lillard/Beal is beyond me but after hearing comments from Hammond and Weltman stating that they would like to do something like that and upon considering that we have assets that teams often do want when rebuilding, it is a possibility.

The more I think about it, and the closer we get to the draft, I think this is the way to maximize their position.

If they make the pick I think it should be Jabari Smith, but realistically how much will he improve the team? I mean we are just so devoid of talent. If you have the #1 pick and don't think your selection will make that much of a difference in the W-L column, then you should consider trading it.
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Re: Who do you want us to take at #1? 

Post#1148 » by basketballRob » Tue Jun 7, 2022 8:08 am

I like how Paolo always seeks out good coaching. He's practicing with Brickley now. He's the guy Butler gave credit to when he was in the playoffs.
.
I do think Paolo can be an all-star. Not sure I like his fit in Houston because they don't share the ball.

I have Smith ahead of him because I feel like he's shooting at that size could be generational. His defense is icing on the cake. I also think he's longer than Paolo, although they are listed as the same.



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Re: Who do you want us to take at #1? 

Post#1149 » by Petre1978 » Tue Jun 7, 2022 8:21 am

The-Stallion70 wrote:After considering it myself and acknowledging that Orlando is in a desirable position with assets, picks, young players etc, I think there is a chance that we get aggressive and make a move on draft night that makes the team immediately more competitive.

Whether it's for something like Lillard/Beal is beyond me but after hearing comments from Hammond and Weltman stating that they would like to do something like that and upon considering that we have assets that teams often do want when rebuilding, it is a possibility.

Which move you have in mind?
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Re: Who do you want us to take at #1? 

Post#1150 » by zaymon » Tue Jun 7, 2022 9:04 am

basketballRob wrote:I like how Paolo always seeks out good coaching. He's practicing with Brickley now. He's the guy Butler gave credit to when he was in the playoffs.
.
I do think Paolo can be an all-star. Not sure I like his fit in Houston because they don't share the ball.

I have Smith ahead of him because I feel like he's shooting at that size could be generational. His defense is icing on the cake. I also think he's longer than Paolo, although they are listed as the same.



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You are one foot in the Banchero camp already, i will give you some more time :)
My money is on Banchero going number 1 !
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Re: Who do you want us to take at #1? 

Post#1151 » by Petre1978 » Tue Jun 7, 2022 9:44 am

basketballRob wrote:I like how Paolo always seeks out good coaching. He's practicing with Brickley now. He's the guy Butler gave credit to when he was in the playoffs.
.
I do think Paolo can be an all-star. Not sure I like his fit in Houston because they don't share the ball.

I have Smith ahead of him because I feel like he's shooting at that size could be generational. His defense is icing on the cake. I also think he's longer than Paolo, although they are listed as the same.



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Re: Who do you want us to take at #1? 

Post#1152 » by basketballRob » Tue Jun 7, 2022 11:04 am

Petre1978 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:I like how Paolo always seeks out good coaching. He's practicing with Brickley now. He's the guy Butler gave credit to when he was in the playoffs.
.
I do think Paolo can be an all-star. Not sure I like his fit in Houston because they don't share the ball.

I have Smith ahead of him because I feel like he's shooting at that size could be generational. His defense is icing on the cake. I also think he's longer than Paolo, although they are listed as the same.



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I agree with the guy in the video that Paolo isn't as big as Jabari. Paolo is probably shorter than Franz.

I'm really not sure how Paolo's defense will translate. I don't think he has the length to be an effective four and not sure about his lateral quickness to guard threes.

I can't see a frontline of Wendell, Paolo, and Franz being great on defense. Franz is good on the ball but really doesn't protect the rim. Jabari's length on defense would work better.

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Re: Who do you want us to take at #1? 

Post#1153 » by Petre1978 » Tue Jun 7, 2022 11:08 am

basketballRob wrote:
Petre1978 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:I like how Paolo always seeks out good coaching. He's practicing with Brickley now. He's the guy Butler gave credit to when he was in the playoffs.
.
I do think Paolo can be an all-star. Not sure I like his fit in Houston because they don't share the ball.

I have Smith ahead of him because I feel like he's shooting at that size could be generational. His defense is icing on the cake. I also think he's longer than Paolo, although they are listed as the same.



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I agree with the guy in the video that Paolo isn't as big as Jabari. Paolo is probably shorter than Franz.

I'm really not sure how Paolo's defense will translate. I don't think he has the length to be an effective four and not sure about his lateral quickness to guard threes.

I can't see a frontline of Wendell, Paolo, and Franz being great on defense. Franz is good on the ball but really doesn't protect the rim. Jabari's length on defense would work better.

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Maybe they wouldn't be good on defense but they would be good on offense.
The Magic are top bottom in offense.

So they should consider Banchero over Smith and Holmgren.
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Re: Who do you want us to take at #1? 

Post#1154 » by basketballRob » Tue Jun 7, 2022 11:38 am

Petre1978 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
Petre1978 wrote:
I agree with the guy in the video that Paolo isn't as big as Jabari. Paolo is probably shorter than Franz.

I'm really not sure how Paolo's defense will translate. I don't think he has the length to be an effective four and not sure about his lateral quickness to guard threes.

I can't see a frontline of Wendell, Paolo, and Franz being great on defense. Franz is good on the ball but really doesn't protect the rim. Jabari's length on defense would work better.

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Maybe they wouldn't be good on defense but they would be good on offense.
The Magic are top bottom in the offense.

So they should consider Banchero over Smith and Holmgren.
Jabari is going to score points. He'll create space for the rest of the team.

Paolo gets his points in more ways than Jabari does, but that doesn't make him a better scorer. Jabari has a high, quick release that he can get off on any player. Paolo can't shoot over players like Jabari. That's probably why the rest of Paolo's game has evolved more.

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Re: Who do you want us to take at #1? 

Post#1155 » by tiderulz » Tue Jun 7, 2022 11:43 am

basketballRob wrote:I like how Paolo always seeks out good coaching. He's practicing with Brickley now. He's the guy Butler gave credit to when he was in the playoffs.
.
I do think Paolo can be an all-star. Not sure I like his fit in Houston because they don't share the ball.

I have Smith ahead of him because I feel like he's shooting at that size could be generational. His defense is icing on the cake. I also think he's longer than Paolo, although they are listed as the same.



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thats why i think if the FO wants to choose Paolo, call up Houston, get at least #17 if not something else, and we might be able to grab Malaki Branham or Jalen Williams.
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Re: Who do you want us to take at #1? 

Post#1156 » by tiderulz » Tue Jun 7, 2022 11:47 am

basketballRob wrote:
Petre1978 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:I like how Paolo always seeks out good coaching. He's practicing with Brickley now. He's the guy Butler gave credit to when he was in the playoffs.
.
I do think Paolo can be an all-star. Not sure I like his fit in Houston because they don't share the ball.

I have Smith ahead of him because I feel like he's shooting at that size could be generational. His defense is icing on the cake. I also think he's longer than Paolo, although they are listed as the same.



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I agree with the guy in the video that Paolo isn't as big as Jabari. Paolo is probably shorter than Franz.

I'm really not sure how Paolo's defense will translate. I don't think he has the length to be an effective four and not sure about his lateral quickness to guard threes.

I can't see a frontline of Wendell, Paolo, and Franz being great on defense. Franz is good on the ball but really doesn't protect the rim. Jabari's length on defense would work better.

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well his wingspan is over 7', so i think he has the length. and if JJ Redick can be passable on defense, im think Paolo can get there as well. seems to have a great work ethic and defense is more about motor than anything to me.
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Re: Who do you want us to take at #1? 

Post#1157 » by drsd » Tue Jun 7, 2022 11:57 am

fateis007 wrote:
Now people are just reaching. He has a 41 inch vert tested at duke. Dude is easily the most explosive of the top 3. If anyone of the top 3's "physicality" is going to transfer over, it's his. He doesn't need to grow into anything, he's already explosive and huge, and the best handle/play maker of the group. People act like this kid was flat footed and just using strength. Like watch a few games atleast.

You are drafting jabari/chet DREAMING they can handle the ball and make plays like him one day, but at this point, they haven't even shown they can run a pick and roll, so they are protypical big men. 3 and D guys.


But that's all offense. Smith and Holmgren are known two-way players. Banchero will get schooled on defense for several years. And he is a risk to always be below average here.


..
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Re: Who do you want us to take at #1? 

Post#1158 » by MagicTownBaller » Tue Jun 7, 2022 2:18 pm

Any update on workouts? We have only 16 days until the draft.
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Re: Who do you want us to take at #1? 

Post#1159 » by IllMagic04 » Tue Jun 7, 2022 3:23 pm

basketballRob wrote:
Petre1978 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:I like how Paolo always seeks out good coaching. He's practicing with Brickley now. He's the guy Butler gave credit to when he was in the playoffs.
.
I do think Paolo can be an all-star. Not sure I like his fit in Houston because they don't share the ball.

I have Smith ahead of him because I feel like he's shooting at that size could be generational. His defense is icing on the cake. I also think he's longer than Paolo, although they are listed as the same.



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I agree with the guy in the video that Paolo isn't as big as Jabari. Paolo is probably shorter than Franz.

I'm really not sure how Paolo's defense will translate. I don't think he has the length to be an effective four and not sure about his lateral quickness to guard threes.

I can't see a frontline of Wendell, Paolo, and Franz being great on defense. Franz is good on the ball but really doesn't protect the rim. Jabari's length on defense would work better.

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Maybe its bad maybe not. I think it could be better then you think. If its bad then you move on from WCjr and find a better fit. I don't think you let who fits with WCjr best effect the selection.
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Re: Who do you want us to take at #1? 

Post#1160 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Tue Jun 7, 2022 3:57 pm

MagicTownBaller wrote:Any update on workouts? We have only 16 days until the draft.


Jabari, Chet & Banchero likely won't visit/workout until next week would be my guess usually the last group of guys that come through
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:

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