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Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic

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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#1161 » by VFX » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:46 pm

orlando_joe wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Patrick1978 wrote:Who is your SG?


Needs to be a potential all star in that lineup.

because that team might win 10 games next yr? maybe 15


Well, making those proposed trades would ultimately give us back something. I guess that side of it would have to bring a return.

I wouldn’t be mad winning 10-15 games next season if I knew they actually picked a direction that didn’t involve rolling out Hennigan’s roster for once this decade.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#1162 » by Skin » Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:50 pm

orlando_joe wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Patrick1978 wrote:Who is your SG?


Needs to be a potential all star in that lineup.

because that team might win 10 games next yr? maybe 15

This is the mentality that plagues the Magic and is the reason why the front office has built a capped out team that will go no farther than a 4 game rout in Round 1 of the playoffs.

You can look upon a 10-15 win season as a failure, but if our future young core is learning and growing while we have the chance to get a top pick in a loaded 2021 draft, then I can tell you that there will be many fans unlike you who would be thrilled and hopeful of a more legitimate future with this rebuild approach.

30-35 wins that will get you no where is purgatory.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#1163 » by orlando_joe » Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:06 pm

Skin wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Needs to be a potential all star in that lineup.

because that team might win 10 games next yr? maybe 15

This is the mentality that plagues the Magic and is the reason why the front office has built a capped out team that will go no farther than a 4 game rout in Round 1 of the playoffs.

You can look upon a 10-15 win season as a failure, but if our future young core is learning and growing while we have the chance to get a top pick in a loaded 2021 draft, then I can tell you that there will be many fans unlike you who would be thrilled and hopeful of a more legitimate future with this rebuild approach.

30-35 wins that will get you no where is purgatory.

I guess I just think magic would win more then 30-35 wins I still see them with 38? lol...if vuc did not miss a month Okeke the whole yr Isaac half yr aminu played more the 18 games dj not missed a month mcw not missed a month ? could they have won 10 more games maybe 50? who knows...then built on that?
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#1164 » by Knightro » Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:11 pm

I will eat my hat if Okeke ends up being a good starting small forward in the NBA.

He might end up playing the position like Gordon and Isaac have played the position because the Magic's roster construction is not very good. But I assure you he is not a natural small forward.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#1165 » by fendilim » Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:32 pm

Knightro wrote:I will eat my hat if Okeke ends up being a good starting small forward in the NBA.

He might end up playing the position like Gordon and Isaac have played the position because the Magic's roster construction is not very good. But I assure you he is not a natural small forward.
I might have to agree with this. I think Okeke might be a bit slow for today's small forward. But i do expect him like a bit like Tobias Harris in terms of speed. A bit bulky, can overpower sfs, but can't outspeed them.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#1166 » by The Real Dalic » Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:35 pm

Knightro wrote:I will eat my hat if Okeke ends up being a good starting small forward in the NBA.

He might end up playing the position like Gordon and Isaac have played the position because the Magic's roster construction is not very good. But I assure you he is not a natural small forward.

I actually strongly agree. I think he's yet another defensive PF that can hit the occassional 3. He's definitely intriguing, but I just don't know if he'll get the time with us considering we already have 3 other PF's. Hopefully we draft and sign some guards and 3's this offseason for once.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#1167 » by zaymon » Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:15 pm

fendilim wrote:
Knightro wrote:I will eat my hat if Okeke ends up being a good starting small forward in the NBA.

He might end up playing the position like Gordon and Isaac have played the position because the Magic's roster construction is not very good. But I assure you he is not a natural small forward.
I might have to agree with this. I think Okeke might be a bit slow for today's small forward. But i do expect him like a bit like Tobias Harris in terms of speed. A bit bulky, can overpower sfs, but can't outspeed them.

Another good exemple. Harris is a small forward on 5th best defense. Middleton is small forward on 1st best defense. 6'7-6'8 with 6'10-6'11 wingspan. Okeke comes as a best defender from college among them, with the best reactions, defensive awareness nad quick hands and has 7 feet wingspan.

Best defensive teams focus on length and shutting the paint. We saw glimpses with Gordon last night when he gets his timing right. Okeke had 1,2 blocks a game in college, he can serve as a secondary rim protector.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#1168 » by fendilim » Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:21 pm

zaymon wrote:
fendilim wrote:
Knightro wrote:I will eat my hat if Okeke ends up being a good starting small forward in the NBA.

He might end up playing the position like Gordon and Isaac have played the position because the Magic's roster construction is not very good. But I assure you he is not a natural small forward.
I might have to agree with this. I think Okeke might be a bit slow for today's small forward. But i do expect him like a bit like Tobias Harris in terms of speed. A bit bulky, can overpower sfs, but can't outspeed them.

Another good exemple. Harris is a small forward on 5th best defense. Middleton is small forward on 1st best defense. 6'7-6'8 with 6'10-6'11 wingspan. Okeke comes as a best defender from college among them, with the best reactions, defensive awareness nad quick hands and has 7 feet wingspan.

Best defensive teams focus on length and shutting the paint. We saw glimpses with Gordon last night when he gets his timing right. Okeke had 1,2 blocks a game in college, he can serve as a secondary rim protector.

To add, Steals and blocks, otherwise called as Stocks, are highly prioritized by the advance stat geeks. Same goes with deflections. Im not surprised since we partnered with an advance stat company, right? So i do think okeke can wreck some havoc on defense. But if he can keep up with SFs today, then we good. I think ultimately the plan is simply to have two forwards who can play both positions. Why it didnt work with Isaac and Gordon is because both are liability on offense. I think Okeke and Isaac can work because of Okeke’s shooting ability and has shown flashes he can Create his own shot, albeit in the college level.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#1169 » by zaymon » Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:36 pm

fendilim wrote:
zaymon wrote:
fendilim wrote:I might have to agree with this. I think Okeke might be a bit slow for today's small forward. But i do expect him like a bit like Tobias Harris in terms of speed. A bit bulky, can overpower sfs, but can't outspeed them.

Another good exemple. Harris is a small forward on 5th best defense. Middleton is small forward on 1st best defense. 6'7-6'8 with 6'10-6'11 wingspan. Okeke comes as a best defender from college among them, with the best reactions, defensive awareness nad quick hands and has 7 feet wingspan.

Best defensive teams focus on length and shutting the paint. We saw glimpses with Gordon last night when he gets his timing right. Okeke had 1,2 blocks a game in college, he can serve as a secondary rim protector.

To add, Steals and blocks, otherwise called as Stocks, are highly prioritized by the advance stat geeks. Same goes with deflections. Im not surprised since we partnered with an advance stat company, right? So i do think okeke can wreck some havoc on defense. But if he can keep up with SFs today, then we good. I think ultimately the plan is simply to have two forwards who can play both positions. Why it didnt work with Isaac and Gordon is because both are liability on offense. I think Okeke and Isaac can work because of Okeke’s shooting ability and has shown flashes he can Create his own shot, albeit in the college level.

Reaction time and hand eye coordination are very underrated. Gasol shuts down most centers with his quick hands. Isaac doesnt look like human becouse of this.

Not quite Isaaca level, but definetly above average hands and reaction. Gordon almost never does that.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#1170 » by OrlMagic05 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:56 pm

orlando_joe wrote:
Skin wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:because that team might win 10 games next yr? maybe 15

This is the mentality that plagues the Magic and is the reason why the front office has built a capped out team that will go no farther than a 4 game rout in Round 1 of the playoffs.

You can look upon a 10-15 win season as a failure, but if our future young core is learning and growing while we have the chance to get a top pick in a loaded 2021 draft, then I can tell you that there will be many fans unlike you who would be thrilled and hopeful of a more legitimate future with this rebuild approach.

30-35 wins that will get you no where is purgatory.

I guess I just think magic would win more then 30-35 wins I still see them with 38? lol...if vuc did not miss a month Okeke the whole yr Isaac half yr aminu played more the 18 games dj not missed a month mcw not missed a month ? could they have won 10 more games maybe 50? who knows...then built on that?


50 wins?? WHAT? There is no way this team could EVER win 50 games as constructed currently. Even if all of the players were healthy there is no chance. This team is maxed out even when healthy to be a 40-43 win team at MAX.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#1171 » by OrlMagic05 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:57 pm

fendilim wrote:
Knightro wrote:I will eat my hat if Okeke ends up being a good starting small forward in the NBA.

He might end up playing the position like Gordon and Isaac have played the position because the Magic's roster construction is not very good. But I assure you he is not a natural small forward.
I might have to agree with this. I think Okeke might be a bit slow for today's small forward. But i do expect him like a bit like Tobias Harris in terms of speed. A bit bulky, can overpower sfs, but can't outspeed them.


He definitely reminds me of Tobias.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#1172 » by pepe1991 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:06 pm

Skin wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Needs to be a potential all star in that lineup.

because that team might win 10 games next yr? maybe 15

This is the mentality that plagues the Magic and is the reason why the front office has built a capped out team that will go no farther than a 4 game rout in Round 1 of the playoffs.

You can look upon a 10-15 win season as a failure, but if our future young core is learning and growing while we have the chance to get a top pick in a loaded 2021 draft, then I can tell you that there will be many fans unlike you who would be thrilled and hopeful of a more legitimate future with this rebuild approach.

30-35 wins that will get you no where is purgatory.


What plagued Magic is beliving they can suck their way into superstar so 6 years in a row they drafted in deep lottery to get...

Image

Image


In 2015 they had so little money commited to salary that they could literally sign 2 max contract players that summer. Yet their putrid, idiotic, stupid tanking ways made them sign---- NOBODY because they wanted to "develop" youth.
If they had balls that year this is list of agents they could have got :
Marc Gasol, Dragić,Deandre JOrdan, Millsap, Rondo, Thad Young, Lou Williams, Butler, Kevin Love, Carroll, Danny Green, Robin Lopez, Pat Bev...

But nop, Evan, Vuc, Hezonja, Dipo, Gordon, Harris, Payton played majority of the min, never actually devloped into anything more than role players.

Hennigan wanted to build his own " OKC " with.... no Durant. No Westbrook. No Harden. Without even Ibaka.
But with Gordon, Payton, Oladipo and Hezonja. Fast forward half of decade later 1 of them had legit 1 good season... years after he left Orlando.

In mean time draft changed and make it impossible to use tanking as valid strategy.

Look at Knicks, despite being biggest market in nba ( and one of biggest teams in world) being constat 10-20 wins team turned them into mockery that nobody wants to come close. Team like ORlando would not survive two 15 wins season. They would be so unprofitable that they would be fire- sold.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#1173 » by VFX » Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:34 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Skin wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:because that team might win 10 games next yr? maybe 15

This is the mentality that plagues the Magic and is the reason why the front office has built a capped out team that will go no farther than a 4 game rout in Round 1 of the playoffs.

You can look upon a 10-15 win season as a failure, but if our future young core is learning and growing while we have the chance to get a top pick in a loaded 2021 draft, then I can tell you that there will be many fans unlike you who would be thrilled and hopeful of a more legitimate future with this rebuild approach.

30-35 wins that will get you no where is purgatory.


What plagued Magic is beliving they can suck their way into superstar so 6 years in a row they drafted in deep lottery to get...

Image

Image


In 2015 they had so little money commited to salary that they could literally sign 2 max contract players that summer. Yet their putrid, idiotic, stupid tanking ways made them sign---- NOBODY because they wanted to "develop" youth.
If they had balls that year this is list of agents they could have got :
Marc Gasol, Dragić,Deandre JOrdan, Millsap, Rondo, Thad Young, Lou Williams, Butler, Kevin Love, Carroll, Danny Green, Robin Lopez, Pat Bev...

But nop, Evan, Vuc, Hezonja, Dipo, Gordon, Harris, Payton played majority of the min, never actually devloped into anything more than role players.

Hennigan wanted to build his own " OKC " with.... no Durant. No Westbrook. No Harden. Without even Ibaka.
But with Gordon, Payton, Oladipo and Hezonja. Fast forward half of decade later 1 of them had legit 1 good season... years after he left Orlando.

In mean time draft changed and make it impossible to use tanking as valid strategy.

Look at Knicks, despite being biggest market in nba ( and one of biggest teams in world) being constat 10-20 wins team turned them into mockery that nobody wants to come close. Team like ORlando would not survive two 15 wins season. They would be so unprofitable that they would be fire- sold.


And now they are stuck between a rock and a hard place... so what’s the alternative?

You say the would not survive two 15 win seasons?

Tell that to Dallas (24 wins) landing Doncic.
Memphis (22 wins) landing Morant.
New Orleans getting lucky (33 wins) landing Zion in the “impossible to tank” new system.

And before you respond, NO I don’t care about your takes on the players individually. That’s not the point.The majority would trade anyone on this roster for any one of those guys in less than a second. You also don’t know if Orlando would equate “15 wins”, shaking things up could be a surprise.

Quite frankly, there is such a small percentage of a chance to land a superstar otherwise for a franchise like Orlando. Are you suggesting that watching Fournier, Vuc and co. for another 3-4 years of mediocrity is better than attempting to land real talent for once since Dwight left? Trading precious vets that leave this team incapable of acquiring next gen talent appears to be the only way out.

The reason the draft hasn’t worked for New York is the same reason is didn’t work for Orlando. Picking high in the wrong drafts at the wrong times and getting **** luck in drafts they needed to land talent.

There is no downside at this point. Orlando isn’t a free agent destination and this team has to luck into hidden gems later in the draft.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#1174 » by yoyojw17 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:46 pm

zaymon wrote:
fendilim wrote:
zaymon wrote:Another good exemple. Harris is a small forward on 5th best defense. Middleton is small forward on 1st best defense. 6'7-6'8 with 6'10-6'11 wingspan. Okeke comes as a best defender from college among them, with the best reactions, defensive awareness nad quick hands and has 7 feet wingspan.

Best defensive teams focus on length and shutting the paint. We saw glimpses with Gordon last night when he gets his timing right. Okeke had 1,2 blocks a game in college, he can serve as a secondary rim protector.

To add, Steals and blocks, otherwise called as Stocks, are highly prioritized by the advance stat geeks. Same goes with deflections. Im not surprised since we partnered with an advance stat company, right? So i do think okeke can wreck some havoc on defense. But if he can keep up with SFs today, then we good. I think ultimately the plan is simply to have two forwards who can play both positions. Why it didnt work with Isaac and Gordon is because both are liability on offense. I think Okeke and Isaac can work because of Okeke’s shooting ability and has shown flashes he can Create his own shot, albeit in the college level.

Reaction time and hand eye coordination are very underrated. Gasol shuts down most centers with his quick hands. Isaac doesnt look like human becouse of this.

Not quite Isaaca level, but definetly above average hands and reaction. Gordon almost never does that.

The one thing i do notice about him is that he is vocal in commanding defenses. Has that leadership quality in my opinion. The... lead by example type of player... Which at the minimum is something we really need in the second unit.

good video FYI... thanks for sharing!!!
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#1175 » by pepe1991 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:31 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Skin wrote:This is the mentality that plagues the Magic and is the reason why the front office has built a capped out team that will go no farther than a 4 game rout in Round 1 of the playoffs.

You can look upon a 10-15 win season as a failure, but if our future young core is learning and growing while we have the chance to get a top pick in a loaded 2021 draft, then I can tell you that there will be many fans unlike you who would be thrilled and hopeful of a more legitimate future with this rebuild approach.

30-35 wins that will get you no where is purgatory.


What plagued Magic is beliving they can suck their way into superstar so 6 years in a row they drafted in deep lottery to get...

Image

Image


In 2015 they had so little money commited to salary that they could literally sign 2 max contract players that summer. Yet their putrid, idiotic, stupid tanking ways made them sign---- NOBODY because they wanted to "develop" youth.
If they had balls that year this is list of agents they could have got :
Marc Gasol, Dragić,Deandre JOrdan, Millsap, Rondo, Thad Young, Lou Williams, Butler, Kevin Love, Carroll, Danny Green, Robin Lopez, Pat Bev...

But nop, Evan, Vuc, Hezonja, Dipo, Gordon, Harris, Payton played majority of the min, never actually devloped into anything more than role players.

Hennigan wanted to build his own " OKC " with.... no Durant. No Westbrook. No Harden. Without even Ibaka.
But with Gordon, Payton, Oladipo and Hezonja. Fast forward half of decade later 1 of them had legit 1 good season... years after he left Orlando.

In mean time draft changed and make it impossible to use tanking as valid strategy.

Look at Knicks, despite being biggest market in nba ( and one of biggest teams in world) being constat 10-20 wins team turned them into mockery that nobody wants to come close. Team like ORlando would not survive two 15 wins season. They would be so unprofitable that they would be fire- sold.


And now they are stuck between a rock and a hard place... so what’s the alternative?

You say the would not survive two 15 win seasons?

Tell that to Dallas (24 wins) landing Doncic.
Memphis (22 wins) landing Morant.
New Orleans getting lucky (33 wins) landing Zion in the “impossible to tank” new system.

And before you respond, NO I don’t care about your takes on the players individually. That’s not the point.The majority would trade anyone on this roster for any one of those guys in less than a second. You also don’t know if Orlando would equate “15 wins”, shaking things up could be a surprise.

Quite frankly, there is such a small percentage of a chance to land a superstar otherwise for a franchise like Orlando. Are you suggesting that watching Fournier, Vuc and co. for another 3-4 years of mediocrity is better than attempting to land real talent for once since Dwight left? Trading precious vets that leave this team incapable of acquiring next gen talent appears to be the only way out.

The reason the draft hasn’t worked for New York is the same reason is didn’t work for Orlando. Picking high in the wrong drafts at the wrong times and getting **** luck in drafts they needed to land talent.

There is no downside at this point. Orlando isn’t a free agent destination and this team has to luck into hidden gems later in the draft.


And how are Suns, kings, T wolves , Magic, Knicks doing?
Years in lottery, nothing to show for.

T wolves made playoffs once in last 10 years i think
Kings didn't make playoffs in last what ? 14 years?
Suns in last 10 years.
Knicks in last 7 years.

Countless amount of lottery picks between them ,handful of first overall picks.

Dallas didn't really "won " Doncic because of their amazing tanking job, but because they were willing to sell their assets and picks to get very specific player they targeted- him.
Magic in same draft drafted Bamba... They would probably draft Bamba even if they had 3rd pick.

Problem with Magic tanking is complete inability to recognize star.

Actually easiest way to get a star is to trade for one. This trade deadline alone 2 allstars were traded, Drummond and Russell.

Off season trades included :Chris Paul, Westbrook, Paul George, Kevin Durant ( sign and trade), Russell, Anthony Davis, Brandon ingram, Kemba Walker ( sign and trade). 8 allstars moved around. Once again, Magic with zero intentions to do anything but to "grow" own talent.
Sounds familiar ? Same thing Hennigan did in 2015 when he left all money on the table and harldy moved salary pass cap floor. To develop such an amazing individual talents such as : Aaron - next year allstar Gordon, Elfrid- i have never played on 35 wins team Payton, Mario- i suck at basketball Hezonja, Victor- i only had 1 good year in my career Oladipo.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#1176 » by Knightro » Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:44 pm

pepe1991 wrote:And how are Suns, kings, T wolves , Magic, Knicks doing?
Years in lottery, nothing to show for.

T wolves made playoffs once in last 10 years i think
Kings didn't make playoffs in last what ? 14 years?
Suns in last 10 years.
Knicks in last 7 years.

Countless amount of lottery picks between them ,handful of first overall picks.

Dallas didn't really "won " Doncic because of their amazing tanking job, but because they were willing to sell their assets and picks to get very specific player they targeted- him.
Magic in same draft drafted Bamba... They would probably draft Bamba even if they had 3rd pick.

Problem with Magic tanking is complete inability to recognize star.


Only so many superstars and all-stars in a given draft. Unfortunately, sometimes that number is zero.

Just because picking at the top of the draft is not guaranteed to work doesn't mean it's not the best strategy for smaller market/non-FA destination clubs like the Magic.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#1177 » by Skin » Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:46 pm

fendilim wrote:
Knightro wrote:I will eat my hat if Okeke ends up being a good starting small forward in the NBA.

He might end up playing the position like Gordon and Isaac have played the position because the Magic's roster construction is not very good. But I assure you he is not a natural small forward.
I might have to agree with this. I think Okeke might be a bit slow for today's small forward. But i do expect him like a bit like Tobias Harris in terms of speed. A bit bulky, can overpower sfs, but can't outspeed them.

What is this fuss about speed for a SF? Where does it come from? We don't care about 40 times in the NBA.

The Top 5 teams in the East have these SFs... Middleton, Anunoby, Tatum, Duncan Robinson and Ben Simmons... I guess we should add KD. In the West, it's Lebron, Will Barton, Kawhi, Eric Gordon and Joe Ingles. Speed is not their advantage. It's their skills, which wide differ between each other. Okeke has a shooting skill and that's a way better trait than speed. I swear folks are mentally crippled by prototypical structures around here. Round peg has to fit a round hole. We need to have the mentality that our hole can fit any shape or size. :lol: :lol: :lol: It's more about roster construction and how you fit pieces together than making sure Player A fits Position A.

And all that said, let's just make this clear... Okeke is NOT the caliber prospect that Lebron, KD, Simmons, Tatum, or even Kawhi was coming into the draft. Anyone crying about his fit at SF because he's not going to go toe to toe on the offensive end with Lebron and KD, needs to check their expectations. He's not being hyped up here to be a future HOF'er. On the other hand, defensively, he sure looks to have the foundational skillset to be a huge defensive asset for us. He needs to turn his baby fat into muscle mass, but the sooner he can do that, the sooner he could be a legit stud for us. You can tell that his defensive BBIQ and motor is high.

A defensive version of Tobias Harris would be amazing.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#1178 » by pepe1991 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:49 pm

Knightro wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:And how are Suns, kings, T wolves , Magic, Knicks doing?
Years in lottery, nothing to show for.

T wolves made playoffs once in last 10 years i think
Kings didn't make playoffs in last what ? 14 years?
Suns in last 10 years.
Knicks in last 7 years.

Countless amount of lottery picks between them ,handful of first overall picks.

Dallas didn't really "won " Doncic because of their amazing tanking job, but because they were willing to sell their assets and picks to get very specific player they targeted- him.
Magic in same draft drafted Bamba... They would probably draft Bamba even if they had 3rd pick.

Problem with Magic tanking is complete inability to recognize star.


Only so many superstars and all-stars in a given draft. Unfortunately, sometimes that number is zero.

Just because picking at the top of the draft is not guaranteed to work doesn't mean it's not the best strategy for smaller market/non-FA destination clubs like the Magic.


yep.
Having 3rd overall pick sounds great... than you figure that's a pick Knicks had this year with Morant and ZIon gone, where they had to settle to Wiggins twin brother Barrett.

2017 draft only real prize was Tatum.
Mitchell is fine , Adebayo is also fine but they won't change fortune of your franchize.

2016 is best example of draft where having 3rd or 4th was not valuable at all. Drafting down to Sabonis or Murray in complete hindsight would be robbery type of move.

2015 in top 5 picks had 2 busts. 7 out of 10 top picks are garbage players.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#1179 » by Skin » Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:01 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Skin wrote:
orlando_joe wrote:because that team might win 10 games next yr? maybe 15

This is the mentality that plagues the Magic and is the reason why the front office has built a capped out team that will go no farther than a 4 game rout in Round 1 of the playoffs.

You can look upon a 10-15 win season as a failure, but if our future young core is learning and growing while we have the chance to get a top pick in a loaded 2021 draft, then I can tell you that there will be many fans unlike you who would be thrilled and hopeful of a more legitimate future with this rebuild approach.

30-35 wins that will get you no where is purgatory.


What plagued Magic is beliving they can suck their way into superstar so 6 years in a row they drafted in deep lottery to get...

In 2015 they had so little money commited to salary that they could literally sign 2 max contract players that summer. Yet their putrid, idiotic, stupid tanking ways made them sign---- NOBODY because they wanted to "develop" youth.
If they had balls that year this is list of agents they could have got :
Marc Gasol, Dragić,Deandre JOrdan, Millsap, Rondo, Thad Young, Lou Williams, Butler, Kevin Love, Carroll, Danny Green, Robin Lopez, Pat Bev...

But nop, Evan, Vuc, Hezonja, Dipo, Gordon, Harris, Payton played majority of the min, never actually devloped into anything more than role players.

Hennigan wanted to build his own " OKC " with.... no Durant. No Westbrook. No Harden. Without even Ibaka.
But with Gordon, Payton, Oladipo and Hezonja. Fast forward half of decade later 1 of them had legit 1 good season... years after he left Orlando.

In mean time draft changed and make it impossible to use tanking as valid strategy.

Look at Knicks, despite being biggest market in nba ( and one of biggest teams in world) being constat 10-20 wins team turned them into mockery that nobody wants to come close. Team like ORlando would not survive two 15 wins season. They would be so unprofitable that they would be fire- sold.

Oh heck no. The Magic kept trying to win the moment they drafted Oladipo. The season following the Dwightmare was the only true season they put up with us losing. Jacque Vaughn didn't even last to the end of his 3rd season for crying out loud. Skiles was brought in to win now... and his strategy was stifling on our young players. Don't even try to sell me on the idea that he was into player development. They gave up on Dipo, broke Hezonja, traded Harris for chump change and didn't make AG a big part of the team until the year before his extension. Total crap.

They put all their chips on building around Vuc and have failed to this day. They gave up on Dipo to get Ibaka next to Vuc. They drafted a pass first - non shooting PG in Payton in order to feed the Vuc. They invested years and millions into Fournier and have established the inescapable Buddy Ball system.

This brand of Magic basketball is what you've been cheering for all this time. You of all people should be enjoying this season believing without a doubt that what you got is a true contender. Don't come on this side of the fence and say you don't like this team. You and ezzzp And'1'd each other all summer long telling us THIS IS THE WAY.
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Re: Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic 

Post#1180 » by VFX » Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:13 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
What plagued Magic is beliving they can suck their way into superstar so 6 years in a row they drafted in deep lottery to get...

Image

Image


In 2015 they had so little money commited to salary that they could literally sign 2 max contract players that summer. Yet their putrid, idiotic, stupid tanking ways made them sign---- NOBODY because they wanted to "develop" youth.
If they had balls that year this is list of agents they could have got :
Marc Gasol, Dragić,Deandre JOrdan, Millsap, Rondo, Thad Young, Lou Williams, Butler, Kevin Love, Carroll, Danny Green, Robin Lopez, Pat Bev...

But nop, Evan, Vuc, Hezonja, Dipo, Gordon, Harris, Payton played majority of the min, never actually devloped into anything more than role players.

Hennigan wanted to build his own " OKC " with.... no Durant. No Westbrook. No Harden. Without even Ibaka.
But with Gordon, Payton, Oladipo and Hezonja. Fast forward half of decade later 1 of them had legit 1 good season... years after he left Orlando.

In mean time draft changed and make it impossible to use tanking as valid strategy.

Look at Knicks, despite being biggest market in nba ( and one of biggest teams in world) being constat 10-20 wins team turned them into mockery that nobody wants to come close. Team like ORlando would not survive two 15 wins season. They would be so unprofitable that they would be fire- sold.


And now they are stuck between a rock and a hard place... so what’s the alternative?

You say the would not survive two 15 win seasons?

Tell that to Dallas (24 wins) landing Doncic.
Memphis (22 wins) landing Morant.
New Orleans getting lucky (33 wins) landing Zion in the “impossible to tank” new system.

And before you respond, NO I don’t care about your takes on the players individually. That’s not the point.The majority would trade anyone on this roster for any one of those guys in less than a second. You also don’t know if Orlando would equate “15 wins”, shaking things up could be a surprise.

Quite frankly, there is such a small percentage of a chance to land a superstar otherwise for a franchise like Orlando. Are you suggesting that watching Fournier, Vuc and co. for another 3-4 years of mediocrity is better than attempting to land real talent for once since Dwight left? Trading precious vets that leave this team incapable of acquiring next gen talent appears to be the only way out.

The reason the draft hasn’t worked for New York is the same reason is didn’t work for Orlando. Picking high in the wrong drafts at the wrong times and getting **** luck in drafts they needed to land talent.

There is no downside at this point. Orlando isn’t a free agent destination and this team has to luck into hidden gems later in the draft.


And how are Suns, kings, T wolves , Magic, Knicks doing?
Years in lottery, nothing to show for.

T wolves made playoffs once in last 10 years i think
Kings didn't make playoffs in last what ? 14 years?
Suns in last 10 years.
Knicks in last 7 years.

Countless amount of lottery picks between them ,handful of first overall picks.

Dallas didn't really "won " Doncic because of their amazing tanking job, but because they were willing to sell their assets and picks to get very specific player they targeted- him.
Magic in same draft drafted Bamba... They would probably draft Bamba even if they had 3rd pick.

Problem with Magic tanking is complete inability to recognize star.


Sure, they are really bad at evaluating talent. Even Phoenix ended up with Ayton at #1 regardless of him being not as good a pick as the others.

Bottom line is that Orlando and those other franchises tanked for the wrong drafts and made bad selections. Conveniently those franchises have also been unable to land talent outside of the draft unless they package their picks and other talent. Like Orlando, they aren’t landing players in free agency.

There isn’t a straight path to landing elite talent in the nba. What there are though are limitations for certain franchises past a certain point. The draft isn’t part of that formula and never will be.

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