Markelle Fultz

[Skybox]

I agree with Pepe’s take…just clinging to the idea that Fultz is going to suddenly turn it on from deep is an irrational narrative…there’s just no logical reason to think it’s going to happen. More reasonably, can he improve in other areas?

-considering his style of play and body…why doesn’t he draw fouls at an elite level? He should score MUCH more from the line
-considering his handles and change of pace in a crowd…why doesn’t he rack up 8+ assists?
-given his size and strength and BBIQ…why doesn’t he become a Suggs-like down lockdown defender? He was good last year in Mose’s scheme, but not elite.

These are all more realistic possibilities. He could be a Westbeast, but he’ll never be a Steph/Murray/Dame…. He’s built for triple doubles- but he rarely gets close. Our frontcourt doesn’t get enough rebounds- the opportunity/need is there.

Unfortunately, in my opinion, even IF (IF IF) he makes realistically plausible leaps - I’m not sure he’s an ideal fit with our best young guys. Maybe…if we had a shooting guard next to him that shoots 3’s whenever the ball swings his way.

I focus on 3pt shots because I feel like that’s what we need…if you’re trying to defend Fultz’ future in the NBA, I’d suggest focusing on what he might really become.

Rereading this…I described our #6 pick’s draft profile…I’ve got to believe Markelle’s seat is getting warm - particularly with his contract situation

[fendilim]

There is a higher probability of Black having to improve his shooting stroke than Fultz.

Fultz is simply damaged goods, his shot has been work in progress ever since his TOS which was diagnosed like 5-6 years ago? And frankly, his TOS is the kind that doesnt heal. Better hope that shoulder doesn’t flare up when it matters the most.

You are determined to be negative!

Did his shot range not improve since coming to Orlando?
He even said it in interviews, he's felt healthier more and more each game towards the season...how exactly is he damaged goods?

The guy puts in work, period!

Has his TOS been healed?

[Skybox]

There is a higher probability of Black having to improve his shooting stroke than Fultz.

Fultz is simply damaged goods, his shot has been work in progress ever since his TOS which was diagnosed like 5-6 years ago? And frankly, his TOS is the kind that doesnt heal. Better hope that shoulder doesn’t flare up when it matters the most.

You are determined to be negative!

Did his shot range not improve since coming to Orlando?
He even said it in interviews, he's felt healthier more and more each game towards the season...how exactly is he damaged goods?

The guy puts in work, period!

Has his TOS been healed?

Ben Simmons has announced he will dominate...so I guess he will

The guy "puts in work"...what does that even mean? - it's just a meme. Lots of people work hard and can't do what they need to to get where their team needs them to be.

[Audi]

I agree with Pepe’s take…just clinging to the idea that Fultz is going to suddenly turn it on from deep is an irrational narrative…there’s just no logical reason to think it’s going to happen.

While I tend to agree, it is still a very unique situation. We have a very small sample size of players who have suffered from TOS and none that came into the league like Fultz did. Lots of interesting questions arise. Is it more logical to think a player who never developed respectable shooting from distance will come into the league and become a respectable distance shooter or is it more logical to expect that from a player who was drafted as an elite distance shooter but had/has a strange injury that caused him to see that ability greatly hampered? Remember - Fultz at one point couldn't shoot the ball from more than a few feet away. His attempt at shooting FT's made him a laughing stock, yet now he's one of our best FT shooters. We've seen him regain his shooting ability progressively, at distances further and further from the basket over time. So while I do tend to agree that hanging on to the narrative for players to suddenly be good at something is folly, doesn't Fultz's unique situation make believing in his narrative more logical (atleast with our limited understanding of his actual physical condition), than the narrative of, say, an Elfrid Payton type?

These are all more realistic possibilities. He could be a Westbeast, but he’ll never be a Steph/Murray/Dame…. He’s built for triple doubles- but he rarely gets close. Our frontcourt doesn’t get enough rebounds- the opportunity/need is there.

The most realistic possibility is that he performs better than other 3rd/4th options in starting lineups with 2 other ball handlers would.

[fendilim]

I agree with Pepe’s take…just clinging to the idea that Fultz is going to suddenly turn it on from deep is an irrational narrative…there’s just no logical reason to think it’s going to happen.

While I tend to agree, it is still a very unique situation. We have a very small sample size of players who have suffered from TOS and none that came into the league like Fultz did. Lots of interesting questions arise. Is it more logical to think a player who never developed respectable shooting from distance will come into the league and become a respectable distance shooter or is it more logical to expect that from a player who was drafted as an elite distance shooter but had/has a strange injury that caused him to see that ability greatly hampered? Remember - Fultz at one point couldn't shoot the ball from more than a few feet away. His attempt at shooting FT's made him a laughing stock, yet now he's one of our best FT shooters. We've seen him regain his shooting ability progressively, at distances further and further from the basket over time. So while I do tend to agree that hanging on to the narrative for players to suddenly be good at something is folly, doesn't Fultz's unique situation make believing in his narrative more logical (atleast with our limited understanding of his actual physical condition), than the narrative of, say, an Elfrid Payton type?

These are all more realistic possibilities. He could be a Westbeast, but he’ll never be a Steph/Murray/Dame…. He’s built for triple doubles- but he rarely gets close. Our frontcourt doesn’t get enough rebounds- the opportunity/need is there.

The most realistic possibility is that he performs better than other 3rd/4th options in starting lineups with 2 other ball handlers would.

I love the optimism, and the sound of being hopeful.

But until when?

[Audi]

I agree with Pepe’s take…just clinging to the idea that Fultz is going to suddenly turn it on from deep is an irrational narrative…there’s just no logical reason to think it’s going to happen.

While I tend to agree, it is still a very unique situation. We have a very small sample size of players who have suffered from TOS and none that came into the league like Fultz did. Lots of interesting questions arise. Is it more logical to think a player who never developed respectable shooting from distance will come into the league and become a respectable distance shooter or is it more logical to expect that from a player who was drafted as an elite distance shooter but had/has a strange injury that caused him to see that ability greatly hampered? Remember - Fultz at one point couldn't shoot the ball from more than a few feet away. His attempt at shooting FT's made him a laughing stock, yet now he's one of our best FT shooters. We've seen him regain his shooting ability progressively, at distances further and further from the basket over time. So while I do tend to agree that hanging on to the narrative for players to suddenly be good at something is folly, doesn't Fultz's unique situation make believing in his narrative more logical (atleast with our limited understanding of his actual physical condition), than the narrative of, say, an Elfrid Payton type?

These are all more realistic possibilities. He could be a Westbeast, but he’ll never be a Steph/Murray/Dame…. He’s built for triple doubles- but he rarely gets close. Our frontcourt doesn’t get enough rebounds- the opportunity/need is there.

The most realistic possibility is that he performs better than other 3rd/4th options in starting lineups with 2 other ball handlers would.

I love the optimism, and the sound of being hopeful.

But until when?

That's the [insert potential Fultz contract] dollar question.

And I don't say it to be optimistic really, just to point out the uniqueness of Fultz's situation and that it may warrant more optimism than would a player looking to develop a long range game from nothing.

[Skybox]

Offseason workout videos are usually bunk...but I DO have faith in Markelle's tremendous on-court poise...It WOULD be meaningful to see some vids of him dropping a ton of consecutive 3's off the dribble, spot up, wherever. I'm not really a believer, but if he became, overnight, a 37% shooter on just 5 or 6 attempts per game...it might unlock a lot of other aspects of his game....He's too limited now, too easy to cheat off of - If he's truly a threat to make them, it would open up SO much for everyone and his own drives to the rack.

We could potentially have three young 20ppg scorers - still within the flow of the game. I don't think it's a threat to Paolo & Franz' touches...it would actually make them much better quality. Adding Herro would do the same for them but having the primary trusted ball handler able to do the same thing is a major game-changer for the opposing defense.

I'm (clearly) not team Markelle but if he hits 2+ 3pa's per game and maintains/enhances (as a result) the rest of his skillset...he gets $25m x 4, IMO.

[Skybox]

Offseason workout videos are usually bunk...but I DO have faith in Markelle's tremendous on-court poise...It WOULD be meaningful to see some vids of him dropping a ton of consecutive 3's off the dribble, spot up, wherever. I'm not really a believer, but if he became, overnight, a 37% shooter on just 5 or 6 attempts per game...it might unlock a lot of other aspects of his game....He's too limited now, too easy to cheat off of - If he's truly a threat to make them, it would open up SO much for everyone and his own drives to the rack.

We could potentially have three young 20ppg scorers - still within the flow of the game. I don't think it's a threat to Paolo & Franz' touches...it would actually make them much better quality. Adding Herro would do the same for them but having the primary trusted ball handler able to do the same thing is a major game-changer for the opposing defense.

I'm (clearly) not team Markelle but if he hits 2+ 3pa's per game and maintains/enhances (as a result) the rest of his skillset...he gets $25m x 4, IMO.

...and, if he doesn't - there's no reason to keep him on any kind of new deal. Same with Isaac, IMO, this is the season to prove they're both key pieces of our very near future or just rack up a TON of cap space to use THIS coming summer...no more kicking it down the road and refusing to make decisions or declare any kind of direction or vision for this team.

No hard feelings or personal issues...just business.

[VFX]

-considering his style of play and body…why doesn’t he draw fouls at an elite level? He should score MUCH more from the line
-considering his handles and change of pace in a crowd…why doesn’t he rack up 8+ assists?
-given his size and strength and BBIQ…why doesn’t he become a Suggs-like down lockdown defender? He was good last year in Mose’s scheme, but not elite.

These are questions that nobody on the other side of the fence will ever answer.

It's not just about his shooting. It's these other aspects of his game that detract from him being a capable starter making starters money. He does 1 thing at a sub-elite level and that means he’s a role player.

[Skybox]

-considering his style of play and body…why doesn’t he draw fouls at an elite level? He should score MUCH more from the line
-considering his handles and change of pace in a crowd…why doesn’t he rack up 8+ assists?
-given his size and strength and BBIQ…why doesn’t he become a Suggs-like down lockdown defender? He was good last year in Mose’s scheme, but not elite.

These are questions that nobody on the other side of the fence will ever answer.

It's not just about his shooting. It's these other aspects of his game that detract from him being a capable starter making starters money.

But he "puts in work"

...to paraphrase Art, the grouchy father-in-law in "Christmas Vacation"...my washing machine works hard!

[T-Cat]

Offseason workout videos are usually bunk...but I DO have faith in Markelle's tremendous on-court poise...It WOULD be meaningful to see some vids of him dropping a ton of consecutive 3's off the dribble, spot up, wherever. I'm not really a believer, but if he became, overnight, a 37% shooter on just 5 or 6 attempts per game...it might unlock a lot of other aspects of his game....He's too limited now, too easy to cheat off of - If he's truly a threat to make them, it would open up SO much for everyone and his own drives to the rack.

We could potentially have three young 20ppg scorers - still within the flow of the game. I don't think it's a threat to Paolo & Franz' touches...it would actually make them much better quality. Adding Herro would do the same for them but having the primary trusted ball handler able to do the same thing is a major game-changer for the opposing defense.

I'm (clearly) not team Markelle but if he hits 2+ 3pa's per game and maintains/enhances (as a result) the rest of his skillset...he gets $25m x 4, IMO.

...and, if he doesn't - there's no reason to keep him on any kind of new deal. Same with Isaac, IMO, this is the season to prove they're both key pieces of our very near future or just rack up a TON of cap space to use THIS coming summer...no more kicking it down the road and refusing to make decisions or declare any kind of direction or vision for this team.

No hard feelings or personal issues...just business.

If we all saw new video of Fultz shooting 3s with ease this whole board would be excited and cheering! Let's be honest with ourselves

Same thing goes for Jonathan Isaac, better hop on the bandwagon before it's too late!

[VFX]

Offseason workout videos are usually bunk...but I DO have faith in Markelle's tremendous on-court poise...It WOULD be meaningful to see some vids of him dropping a ton of consecutive 3's off the dribble, spot up, wherever. I'm not really a believer, but if he became, overnight, a 37% shooter on just 5 or 6 attempts per game...it might unlock a lot of other aspects of his game....He's too limited now, too easy to cheat off of - If he's truly a threat to make them, it would open up SO much for everyone and his own drives to the rack.

We could potentially have three young 20ppg scorers - still within the flow of the game. I don't think it's a threat to Paolo & Franz' touches...it would actually make them much better quality. Adding Herro would do the same for them but having the primary trusted ball handler able to do the same thing is a major game-changer for the opposing defense.

I'm (clearly) not team Markelle but if he hits 2+ 3pa's per game and maintains/enhances (as a result) the rest of his skillset...he gets $25m x 4, IMO.

...and, if he doesn't - there's no reason to keep him on any kind of new deal. Same with Isaac, IMO, this is the season to prove they're both key pieces of our very near future or just rack up a TON of cap space to use THIS coming summer...no more kicking it down the road and refusing to make decisions or declare any kind of direction or vision for this team.

No hard feelings or personal issues...just business.

If we all saw new video of Fultz shooting 3s with ease this whole board would be excited and cheering! Let's be honest with ourselves

Same thing goes for Jonathan Isaac, better hop on the bandwagon before it's too late!

What about AG? Did he ever turn into Paul George?

Or are people being overly optimistic about Magic players completely transforming their abilities to fit narratives about the roster?

I’d say the latter.

[Audi]

-considering his style of play and body…why doesn’t he draw fouls at an elite level? He should score MUCH more from the line

What exactly about a play style predicated on transition scoring, sneaky cuts and slips, and calculated movement/dribble penetration to create space should translate to drawing fouls at an elite level? Isn't this a much more suitable question we should be asking of Suggs, who's game is essentially being a cannonball looking anywhere for contact, often times to the detriment of his own health?

-considering his handles and change of pace in a crowd…why doesn’t he rack up 8+ assists?

Can you point me to any 3rd/4th option playing in a SL next to two rising-star ball handlers that is currently achieving this feat?

[VFX]

-considering his style of play and body…why doesn’t he draw fouls at an elite level? He should score MUCH more from the line

What exactly about a play style predicated on transition scoring, sneaky cuts and slips, and calculated movement/dribble penetration to create space should translate to drawing fouls at an elite level? Isn't this a much more suitable question we should be asking of Suggs, who's game is essentially being a cannonball looking anywhere for contact, often times to the detriment of his own health?

-considering his handles and change of pace in a crowd…why doesn’t he rack up 8+ assists?

Can you point me to any 3rd/4th option playing in a SL next to two rising-star ball handlers that is currently achieving this feat?

I love how the critique of a 6-7 year player is always in comparison to a 2-3 year player.

Why not address the concern at face value?

What does Fultz lacking the ability to draw fouls have to do with Suggs?

[T-Cat]

Read on Twitter

[Audi]

-considering his style of play and body…why doesn’t he draw fouls at an elite level? He should score MUCH more from the line

What exactly about a play style predicated on transition scoring, sneaky cuts and slips, and calculated movement/dribble penetration to create space should translate to drawing fouls at an elite level? Isn't this a much more suitable question we should be asking of Suggs, who's game is essentially being a cannonball looking anywhere for contact, often times to the detriment of his own health?

-considering his handles and change of pace in a crowd…why doesn’t he rack up 8+ assists?

Can you point me to any 3rd/4th option playing in a SL next to two rising-star ball handlers that is currently achieving this feat?

I love how the critique of a 6-7 year player is always in comparison to a 2-3 year player.

Why not address the concern at face value?

What does Fultz lacking the ability to draw fouls have to do with Suggs?

What’s the comparison? The statement was that Fultz’s play style should be sending him to line at an elite level and I don’t see how that is the case. The play style that would be associated with that would be more akin to Suggs’s.

[VFX]

Read on Twitter

Do you think he grows his hair back out after he secures his ridiculous contract?

[Residual-Heat]

What exactly about a play style predicated on transition scoring, sneaky cuts and slips, and calculated movement/dribble penetration to create space should translate to drawing fouls at an elite level? Isn't this a much more suitable question we should be asking of Suggs, who's game is essentially being a cannonball looking anywhere for contact, often times to the detriment of his own health?



Can you point me to any 3rd/4th option playing in a SL next to two rising-star ball handlers that is currently achieving this feat?

I love how the critique of a 6-7 year player is always in comparison to a 2-3 year player.

Why not address the concern at face value?

What does Fultz lacking the ability to draw fouls have to do with Suggs?

What’s the comparison? The statement was that Fultz’s play style should be sending him to line at an elite level and I don’t see how that is the case. The play style that would be associated with that would be more akin to Suggs’s.

Suggs has a low (but still higher than Markelle's) FTrate mainly because he took a lot of threes last season. 45% of his FGs came from behind the 3pt line.

Suggs only averaged 3.9 drives per game. Markelle averaged 12. Fultz averaged 5 FGAs on drives, Suggs averaged 2 FGAs. Fultz 0.9 FTA, Suggs 0.6 FTA.

[yoyojw17]

-considering his style of play and body…why doesn’t he draw fouls at an elite level? He should score MUCH more from the line

What exactly about a play style predicated on transition scoring, sneaky cuts and slips, and calculated movement/dribble penetration to create space should translate to drawing fouls at an elite level? Isn't this a much more suitable question we should be asking of Suggs, who's game is essentially being a cannonball looking anywhere for contact, often times to the detriment of his own health?

-considering his handles and change of pace in a crowd…why doesn’t he rack up 8+ assists?

Can you point me to any 3rd/4th option playing in a SL next to two rising-star ball handlers that is currently achieving this feat?

context always goes out of the window when it comes to markelle. lol

[basketballRob]

...and, if he doesn't - there's no reason to keep him on any kind of new deal. Same with Isaac, IMO, this is the season to prove they're both key pieces of our very near future or just rack up a TON of cap space to use THIS coming summer...no more kicking it down the road and refusing to make decisions or declare any kind of direction or vision for this team.

No hard feelings or personal issues...just business.

If we all saw new video of Fultz shooting 3s with ease this whole board would be excited and cheering! Let's be honest with ourselves

Same thing goes for Jonathan Isaac, better hop on the bandwagon before it's too late!

What about AG? Did he ever turn into Paul George?

Or are people being overly optimistic about Magic players completely transforming their abilities to fit narratives about the roster?

I’d say the latter.

That whole thing was exaggerated. Frank Vogel was the new coach and wanted to use AG in a Paul George role. AG didn't live up to those expectations but turned into a good player.

When I first saw AG I thought he might be a bust. I think he was averaging like 5 ppg and 4 rpg in his first summer league. The next season, he averaged like 20 and 10, in the summer league.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/frank-vogel-says-the-magic-will-use-aaron-gordon-like-paul-george/


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