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The Anthony Black Thread

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Re: The Anthony Black Thread 

Post#1181 » by p0peye » Tue Nov 14, 2023 7:30 pm

fendilim wrote:
dsg2021 wrote:Ate my crow and been a fan of Black too, but I won't forget how amazing Elfrid Payton's rookie year was and how no better seasons came of it. Granted, Black is not playing in a way that you can scout and counter too easily. There is hidden optimism!

I understand the skepticism if any, but think both are not on the same boat.

Elfrid had a lot of opportunity with the ball in his hands most of the time.

Anthony Black averages less. He has found his way to be effective off the ball.


Defensively, it is a blasphemy to put Elfrid and Black in same sentance paragraph.
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Re: The Anthony Black Thread 

Post#1182 » by RookieStar » Tue Nov 14, 2023 8:48 pm

p0peye wrote:
fendilim wrote:
dsg2021 wrote:Ate my crow and been a fan of Black too, but I won't forget how amazing Elfrid Payton's rookie year was and how no better seasons came of it. Granted, Black is not playing in a way that you can scout and counter too easily. There is hidden optimism!

I understand the skepticism if any, but think both are not on the same boat.

Elfrid had a lot of opportunity with the ball in his hands most of the time.

Anthony Black averages less. He has found his way to be effective off the ball.


Defensively, it is a blasphemy to put Elfrid and Black in same sentance paragraph.


As much as I haye to say it, Elfrid's play especially at the end of season where he gets regular trip-dubs, had us high on him. Blocking and steals looked normal to him.
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Re: The Anthony Black Thread 

Post#1183 » by basketballRob » Tue Nov 14, 2023 8:50 pm

RookieStar wrote:
p0peye wrote:
fendilim wrote:I understand the skepticism if any, but think both are not on the same boat.

Elfrid had a lot of opportunity with the ball in his hands most of the time.

Anthony Black averages less. He has found his way to be effective off the ball.


Defensively, it is a blasphemy to put Elfrid and Black in same sentance paragraph.


As much as I haye to say it, Elfrid's play especially at the end of season where he gets regular trip-dubs, had us high on him. Blocking and steals looked normal to him.
Elfrid couldn't stay in front of anyone defensively.

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Re: The Anthony Black Thread 

Post#1184 » by pepe1991 » Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:22 am

I really, really, REALLY hate how we use Black.
He is played as Matisse Thybulle. Guy who plays defense and stands without ball in corner 95% of time.

Like, you drafted him to be PG. Can you give him SOME chops with ball?
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Re: The Anthony Black Thread 

Post#1185 » by pepe1991 » Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:22 am

basketballRob wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
p0peye wrote:
Defensively, it is a blasphemy to put Elfrid and Black in same sentance paragraph.


As much as I haye to say it, Elfrid's play especially at the end of season where he gets regular trip-dubs, had us high on him. Blocking and steals looked normal to him.
Elfrid couldn't stay in front of anyone defensively.

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He couldn't. That didn't stop forum from proclaiming him as elite defender, blaming everybody around him for defense.
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Re: The Anthony Black Thread 

Post#1186 » by thelead » Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:23 am

pepe1991 wrote:I really, really, REALLY hate how we use Black.
He is played as Matisse Thybulle. Guy who plays defense and stands without ball in corner 95% of time.

Like, you drafted him to be PG. Can you give him SOME chops with ball?

Coach Mosley needs to hire an 'offensive coordinator'
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Re: The Anthony Black Thread 

Post#1187 » by Skin » Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:00 am

pepe1991 wrote:I really, really, REALLY hate how we use Black.
He is played as Matisse Thybulle. Guy who plays defense and stands without ball in corner 95% of time.

Like, you drafted him to be PG. Can you give him SOME chops with ball?

Can't do it. His handle is way too loose. Worse than Suggs and that's saying something.
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Re: The Anthony Black Thread 

Post#1188 » by pepe1991 » Wed Nov 15, 2023 9:30 am

Skin wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I really, really, REALLY hate how we use Black.
He is played as Matisse Thybulle. Guy who plays defense and stands without ball in corner 95% of time.

Like, you drafted him to be PG. Can you give him SOME chops with ball?

Can't do it. His handle is way too loose. Worse than Suggs and that's saying something.


Ugh i hope you are wrong. Wtf those kids work on as teens? My idol was Iverson, we were doing nothing but (over) dribbling as kids, that's why our generation gave unicorn guys like Davis. Bigs with handles :o
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Re: The Anthony Black Thread 

Post#1189 » by Skybox » Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:06 pm

Part of the curse on AB is that he’s playing behind a player he’s probably better than. So, it’s easy to argue that he should start. On a better built team, he’d be getting big minutes behind someone better but maybe aging out, not “starting to develop a shot”. If we had Brogdon, or Bogdonavich, or Conley, or some similar combo guard AB could play behind and eventually alongside at times…he’d be on a better trajectory.

Equally silly is benching Jett while it’s clear that shooting is our primary weakness. I’m not saying Jett’s ready to start, but there’s nobody who can shoot clearly ahead of him, so he’ll have no one to model his game after. I don’t need Gary to teach him to only shoot when no one’s within 15 feet or Cole & Suggs advising him to shoot every time- no one cares if you miss.

Our player mix is not conducive to the “development” everyone thinks we’re doing. Seems like what Oladipo described…”everyone is trying to establish themselves at the same time”, “no clear hierarchy/leadership “. Ingles was a good add, imo, because he knows his role will be limited (ultimately) but he’s still crafty enough and talented enough to school them most of the time, which gives him referent authority.

Right now it’s more like “Start Black- might be better than the alternative” …not ideal for team or him.
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Re: The Anthony Black Thread 

Post#1190 » by VFX » Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:24 pm

pepe1991 wrote:I really, really, REALLY hate how we use Black.
He is played as Matisse Thybulle. Guy who plays defense and stands without ball in corner 95% of time.

Like, you drafted him to be PG. Can you give him SOME chops with ball?


I knew as soon as he was drafted that he was going to be playing out of position defensively and would not be given the reigns on offense. That’s just what bad teams do with good prospects. Take away all their advantages because it fits the lineup in place of washed players that won’t be here in 2 seasons.

He’s super young, so I think he can become a lead playmaking guard (who guards guards and not forwards). I just think that the FO has to take a long hard look in the mirror and realize you can’t develop 5-6 guys at the same time without having some kind of vet available to lead by example on a positional basis.

Who is Black going to get good POINT GUARD advice from? Markelle Fultz? Cole Anthony? Lol. No. They need to trade for someone that can carve into minutes and show Black how to run things because it doesn’t seem like Mosely is running set plays or teaching them how to close out games with all due respect. I’ll give him his flowers for a top 5 defense and getting guys to buy in. Offense? Teaching them how to run a half court? Not seeing it.
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Re: The Anthony Black Thread 

Post#1191 » by pepe1991 » Wed Nov 15, 2023 12:58 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I really, really, REALLY hate how we use Black.
He is played as Matisse Thybulle. Guy who plays defense and stands without ball in corner 95% of time.

Like, you drafted him to be PG. Can you give him SOME chops with ball?


I knew as soon as he was drafted that he was going to be playing out of position defensively and would not be given the reigns on offense. That’s just what bad teams do with good prospects. Take away all their advantages because it fits the lineup in place of washed players that won’t be here in 2 seasons.

He’s super young, so I think he can become a lead playmaking guard (who guards guards and not forwards). I just think that the FO has to take a long hard look in the mirror and realize you can’t develop 5-6 guys at the same time without having some kind of vet available to lead by example on a positional basis.

Who is Black going to get good POINT GUARD advice from? Markelle Fultz? Cole Anthony? Lol. No. They need to trade for someone that can carve into minutes and show Black how to run things because it doesn’t seem like Mosely is running set plays or teaching them how to close out games with all due respect. I’ll give him his flowers for a top 5 defense and getting guys to buy in. Offense? Teaching them how to run a half court? Not seeing it.



It's not just that, it's also where those players are at in career.
Like, if you have i don't know, Conley on your roster, guy is 35-36, he knows he will retire in near future. He made xy money and has nothing else to prove. He will give players good advices and be your veteran.

But Fultz- draft bust that never fully recovered at age of 25. He still aims to save his own career.
Cole- young, bit wild, flamboyant character, very young. He can't give you good advices, he still has to recive good advices himelf.
Suggs- again, young, unproven, hungry, wanting to prove himself , chip on a shoulder due a draft stock. Yet to make serious money.


At the end of a day we as fans, simply have to accept that it's impossible to develop 5 players at once. Team like OKC has 3 core players :SGA, Holmgren and Jalen Williams.
We have Paolo and Franz. If somebody else pops, great. if not, we should embrace building around them sooner rather than later.

And this is where most of my "hate" toward front office comes from. Complete lack of desire to commit to something. They love this status quo where we don't compete for anythnig serious but also don't suck enough where their jobs would be in danger.
During 2018 and 2019 and even 2020 there was time and space to push for some type of allstar guard to at least give us chance to win 50 games. Never happened. Why? They didn't want to take risks. Resigning everybody and running back until players gave up on them. Why would 4 years later anything be different, if we are back at "run same roster back every year" path?
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Re: The Anthony Black Thread 

Post#1192 » by RichCollab » Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:08 pm

Did Black become a PG because of his poor shooting and not because of his play making?

Did we draft another “PG” who isn’t a playmaker or shooter?
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Re: The Anthony Black Thread 

Post#1193 » by basketballRob » Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:23 pm

Skin wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I really, really, REALLY hate how we use Black.
He is played as Matisse Thybulle. Guy who plays defense and stands without ball in corner 95% of time.

Like, you drafted him to be PG. Can you give him SOME chops with ball?

Can't do it. His handle is way too loose. Worse than Suggs and that's saying something.
It isn't. Down the stretch against Milwaukee, Black was the main ball handler.

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Re: The Anthony Black Thread 

Post#1194 » by VFX » Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:43 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I really, really, REALLY hate how we use Black.
He is played as Matisse Thybulle. Guy who plays defense and stands without ball in corner 95% of time.

Like, you drafted him to be PG. Can you give him SOME chops with ball?


I knew as soon as he was drafted that he was going to be playing out of position defensively and would not be given the reigns on offense. That’s just what bad teams do with good prospects. Take away all their advantages because it fits the lineup in place of washed players that won’t be here in 2 seasons.

He’s super young, so I think he can become a lead playmaking guard (who guards guards and not forwards). I just think that the FO has to take a long hard look in the mirror and realize you can’t develop 5-6 guys at the same time without having some kind of vet available to lead by example on a positional basis.

Who is Black going to get good POINT GUARD advice from? Markelle Fultz? Cole Anthony? Lol. No. They need to trade for someone that can carve into minutes and show Black how to run things because it doesn’t seem like Mosely is running set plays or teaching them how to close out games with all due respect. I’ll give him his flowers for a top 5 defense and getting guys to buy in. Offense? Teaching them how to run a half court? Not seeing it.



It's not just that, it's also where those players are at in career.
Like, if you have i don't know, Conley on your roster, guy is 35-36, he knows he will retire in near future. He made xy money and has nothing else to prove. He will give players good advices and be your veteran.

But Fultz- draft bust that never fully recovered at age of 25. He still aims to save his own career.
Cole- young, bit wild, flamboyant character, very young. He can't give you good advices, he still has to recive good advices himelf.
Suggs- again, young, unproven, hungry, wanting to prove himself , chip on a shoulder due a draft stock. Yet to make serious money.


At the end of a day we as fans, simply have to accept that it's impossible to develop 5 players at once. Team like OKC has 3 core players :SGA, Holmgren and Jalen Williams.
We have Paolo and Franz. If somebody else pops, great. if not, we should embrace building around them sooner rather than later.

And this is where most of my "hate" toward front office comes from. Complete lack of desire to commit to something. They love this status quo where we don't compete for anythnig serious but also don't suck enough where their jobs would be in danger.
During 2018 and 2019 and even 2020 there was time and space to push for some type of allstar guard to at least give us chance to win 50 games. Never happened. Why? They didn't want to take risks. Resigning everybody and running back until players gave up on them. Why would 4 years later anything be different, if we are back at "run same roster back every year" path?


Just my opinion, but I don’t think Orlando is in as bad of a situation as they were in 2018.

Memory lane
Spoiler:
That was my hell. Totally inconsequential team returning guys that lost all value and resigning a guy simply because he was scoring on a team with no scorers. Drafting a long boi with no positional versatility with the same position as your “scorer” while we pass up on wings and guards because DJ Augustine and Fournier run the offense… kill me.


At least now they have pieces that have a ceiling and somewhat of a path toward some success. You can at least see clearly defined roles in Suggs, Paolo, and Franz moving forward.

The problem now becomes balancing out the roster to make sense of development within a realistic timeframe. You can’t throw Anthony Black out there, fighting for minutes with a broken Fultz and deferring to Paolo to run the offense, thinking he’s going to develop as anything more than Matisse Thybulle without a foundation in place.

I don’t want them to squander actual development of these guys because the FO can’t make timely decisions. That’s kinda what all the bitching was about all off-season.

As much as 20 year old Paolo and Jamal Mosely keep saying this team is “playoffs or bust”, this team is in development. Half the bench shouldn’t be here in 2 seasons (Harris, Ingles, JI, Okeke) along with Fultz and probably Carter looking long term. Possibly even Cole if he has games like last night where he makes Kevon Harris look like an upgrade.
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Re: The Anthony Black Thread 

Post#1195 » by JoshuaPotter » Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:12 pm

Last night was just one of what is likely many speed bumps on the road to Blacks career development. It's good to see the direction is looking more at the team then black itself which I think sets a tone for understand.

Either way though, it is largely up to Black to take all these learning moments in and try to become a better player. I do not expect us get to the playoffs but I do think that if Black is anywhere near as serviceable as we hope him to become we play inconsistent 500sh ball into the playin or just outside the playin.

A really big flaw of the org was signing Ingles. He was a great idea for the wrong position. I get it though, how are we supposed to move Harris and Fultz for anything when management has literally destroyed their contract to positional value.
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Re: The Anthony Black Thread 

Post#1196 » by Def Swami » Wed Nov 15, 2023 2:18 pm

RichCollab wrote:Did Black become a PG because of his poor shooting and not because of his play making?

Did we draft another “PG” who isn’t a playmaker or shooter?

It's really hard to be a playmaker if you can't shoot.
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Re: The Anthony Black Thread 

Post#1197 » by KillMonger » Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:33 pm

A point guard that isn't being used like a point guard
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Re: The Anthony Black Thread 

Post#1198 » by pinoynurse » Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:59 pm

pepe1991 wrote:I really, really, REALLY hate how we use Black.
He is played as Matisse Thybulle. Guy who plays defense and stands without ball in corner 95% of time.

Like, you drafted him to be PG. Can you give him SOME chops with ball?


drives me crazy that cole or suggs are the primary balhandler when hes in the game.hopefully they are just trying to ease him in to eventually take the lead guard responsibilities
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Re: The Anthony Black Thread 

Post#1199 » by Skin » Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:19 pm

Def Swami wrote:
RichCollab wrote:Did Black become a PG because of his poor shooting and not because of his play making?

Did we draft another “PG” who isn’t a playmaker or shooter?

It's really hard to be a playmaker if you can't shoot.

Or dribble. He's so uncoordinated when I watch him move around the court. This is what I see...

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Re: The Anthony Black Thread 

Post#1200 » by eyriq » Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:54 pm

Does AB have a 20 point game during his rookie campaign?

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