Official Speculation Thread (Pt XIII, Mods Close)

[The Real Dalic]

Justin Harper is a 2nd round rookie who hasn't proven a thing. Thinking he could just step in and fill the void left by the league's best three point shooter with a PER through the roof is being a little silly. Some of you are forgetting how good of a rebounder Anderson is this season, no way a rookie Harper comes in and fills that void. I can't see us getting David Lee back from GS with Ellis anyways.

This whole playmaker thing gets so overused. Monta Ellis is a "playmaker" because Golden State pretty much gives him free reign. In SVG's offense, he wouldn't be getting the ball every time down letting him shoot or pass when he pleases. He'd have to play within our system and the numbers would go down. Nearly every perimeter player we've brought in have seen their numbers go down, the same would happen with Ellis.

I'm not being "picky", I'm just not going to drool at his statline and highlight videos and think we'll get those same things in Orlando. You just don't see 22/6 or whatever he is averaging and throw that on to another team and get the same thing. When Ellis is averaging 16 ppg or so, we have problems with our frontcourt other than Dwight, our depth sucks and we lose in the playoffs, people will realize that Ellis wasn't fixing all of our problems and Dwight probably bolts to play with D-Will.

But Ryan is easily replaceable... Ellis is not... if we have Dwight and Ellis locked up we could easily sign other players to fill the roster.... I'm thinking big picture along with this year....

[ADRajX]

And people are forgetting who their coaches were throughout his career... Stan is going to be the first good coach he has ever played for... you guys know I don't like Stan... but, I do know he has the BEST defensive schemes in the NBA... just let Ellis run wild and the rest of the team plays defense and we have a big chance at a championship... maybe not this year but the year after that or 2 years from now.

+1

[laVal03]

I'm torn on Ellis....If he keeps Dwight in a Magic uni I guess I'm all for it but thats not guaranteed. I feel that Stan's system will hinder Monta as a player and he will be sub-par just like the rest of the SG's we have brought in recently.

I also don't believe that Dwight & Monta is better than Wade, Lebron, Bosh

[D12VCMagic]

Lmao. Suddenly Monta Ellis is a good creator. Suddenly he is some magnificent, elite player even though GS is eager to get rid of him for 2 years but NOBODY wants him!

5.7apg and 3.3TOs.....really. Career 4.3apg and 2.2TOs. Calling him a playmaker is an insult to legit playmakers out there. Steve Nash is rolling around in his grave right now.

Monta Ellis gives the illusion of being a "creator" because he can do whatever he wants. If you give a good shooter control of the offense, he is going to put up stats and highlights. Not necesarily win you games, but he'll look good.

I see Ellis putting up solid numbers if he came here, but he wouldn't be the savior and creator on the perimeter people think he is. SVG won't let him run the offense.

[OMPunk]

Another question in this whole Monta saga is if he does come and we keep Hedo, how does he work with him? Is it a plus due to Hedo facilitating for him? Or a negative because Monta would be handling the ball a ton and Hedo reverts to Toronto Hedo?

I know this is looking far ahead but to me its a legit concern if they both play together.

[D12VCMagic]

Those of you that don't want Ellis here are crazy. This is about keeping Dwight in Orlando. With Ellis here, he probably opts in. This is all that matters.

Hey, if it kept Dwight here. I'm down. But I don't buy that he'll turn down the chance to play with D-Will to play with Monta Ellis. Especially after finding out first hand Monta isn't the player he thought he was.

[The Real Dalic]

BTW, for those of you that don't like Ellis... we could easily just flip him to IND or MEM for Granger or Gay... he would instantly become our best asset (outside of Howard of course). so I really don't understand why you wouldn't do this trade.... we can't get much else for Ryan and JJ anyway.... and some of you guys are saying "you wanna trade those 2 guys for a guy no one else want? lulz." who's calling for Ryan and JJ???......

[Logicjbr]

I don't see any scenario where we could get Ellis without giving up Anderson......and Ryan has a far superior PER..

Where would they play him? at center?

[The Real Dalic]

Lmao. Suddenly Monta Ellis is a good creator. Suddenly he is some magnificent, elite player even though GS is eager to get rid of him for 2 years but NOBODY wants him!

5.7apg and 3.3TOs.....really. Career 4.3apg and 2.2TOs. Calling him a playmaker is an insult to legit playmakers out there. Steve Nash is rolling around in his grave right now.

Monta Ellis gives the illusion of being a "creator" because he can do whatever he wants. If you give a good shooter control of the offense, he is going to put up stats and highlights. Not necesarily win you games, but he'll look good.

I see Ellis putting up solid numbers if he came here, but he wouldn't be the savior and creator on the perimeter people think he is. SVG won't let him run the offense.

Cause Wall wins games right?

[InFlames]

Those of you that don't want Ellis here are crazy. This is about keeping Dwight in Orlando. With Ellis here, he probably opts in. This is all that matters.

Dwight is going to pick Monta Ellis over Deron Williams?

So would you rather keep the team we have now and watch him walk since we probably aren't going to trade him? With Ellis we have a way better chance of him opting in.

[DiplomaticMagic]

There will be another one of these threads before something happens

[The Real Dalic]

Those of you that don't want Ellis here are crazy. This is about keeping Dwight in Orlando. With Ellis here, he probably opts in. This is all that matters.

Dwight is going to pick Monta Ellis over Deron Williams?

So would you rather keep the team we have now and watch him walk since we probably aren't going to trade him? With Ellis we have a way better chance of him opting in.

This.

[The Real Dalic]

There will be another one of these threads before something happens

I know!

[D12VCMagic]

Lmao. Suddenly Monta Ellis is a good creator. Suddenly he is some magnificent, elite player even though GS is eager to get rid of him for 2 years but NOBODY wants him!

5.7apg and 3.3TOs.....really. Career 4.3apg and 2.2TOs. Calling him a playmaker is an insult to legit playmakers out there. Steve Nash is rolling around in his grave right now.

Monta Ellis gives the illusion of being a "creator" because he can do whatever he wants. If you give a good shooter control of the offense, he is going to put up stats and highlights. Not necesarily win you games, but he'll look good.

I see Ellis putting up solid numbers if he came here, but he wouldn't be the savior and creator on the perimeter people think he is. SVG won't let him run the offense.

Cause Wall wins games right?

Where did I say anything about John Wall?

Btw, I'm not saying I don't want Ellis. I just don't buy that he is the perimeter "creator" that fixes our problems and keeps Dwight here. He has inflated stats on a high usage rate in Golden State. Trading away two or three quality contributors for Ellis alone won't make us much better than people think. Ellis is no All Star, he isn't going to be Dwight's Robin and win rings. Just can't see it.

[ADRajX]

This whole playmaker thing gets so overused. Monta Ellis is a "playmaker" because Golden State pretty much gives him free reign. In SVG's offense, he wouldn't be getting the ball every time down letting him shoot or pass when he pleases. He'd have to play within our system and the numbers would go down. Nearly every perimeter player we've brought in have seen their numbers go down, the same would happen with Ellis.

I feel like I've said this countless times

You know those situations where the defense single covers Dwight and our shooters... it's the 4th Quarter... the Magic are within 5 or 6pts but just can't seem to get a run going... that's where Ellis comes in... someone that can break away from the plays and take over... how many times have you read comments in the Game thread saying, "we need a finisher", "we need a scorer, can't go to Dwight late", etc. etc. ... that's Ellis... let him run SVG's offense, but also give him the freedom and greenlight to make a play... you don't limit his skill and abilities... when the time is needed for him to break away and do his thing and score on-the-ball or make a play (triple threat, pass, shoot, or drive)... then that'll be his role... we never had a player like that on this team in 6 years... and Vince Carter's old *** doesn't count.

[Frank Lucas]

the reason why Ellis hasn't been traded over the last two season is because G-State is looking for a crazy return for Ellis. Now I really doubt the Magic have what G-State would be looking for in a Ellis deal. My understanding is that G-State WANTS Dwight Howard for themselves. So I don't see them trading Ellis away to the Magics for nothing because that is what they would be getting in return is nothing.

[Hon-essim]

But Ryan is easily replaceable... Ellis is not... if we have Dwight and Ellis locked up we could easily sign other players to fill the roster.... I'm thinking big picture along with this year....

There used to be a time when Steve Francis was irreplaceable and then the Westbrooks and D Roses came.

There used to be a time when Gilbert Arenas was replaceable and then he blew it up.

Ryan is not as easily replaceable as one might think. I don't think he's going to be great but even for superstars, very few are speedy rebounding shooters. It's a deceptively unique toolset. Not something that looks special on the surface but definitely one of the few styles that age well like wine especially since Ryno is on the smaller side unlike say Vladimir Radmanovic. Another clue is his development. Not many players can develop out of nowhere with that toolset. It's an anomaly on par with the Chris Mullins and the Detlef Schrempfs doing better than expected in the league.

Ellis on the other hand is the opposite. Before he was irreplaceable, he was expendable. Then like KMart, he sacrificed part of his game to be different (but on the opposite side of the aisle), to be more aggressive and turned his game into something that was closer to Allen Iverson at point but one where he can't sustain it for long even today. He needs GS system. Without GS' system he'll slowly turn into a shorter Corey Magette unless he finds a shooting touch but then that's still just JRich level shooting and he'll lose his aggressive drives once he adopts this.

[Hilltop]

Another question in this whole Monta saga is if he does come and we keep Hedo, how does he work with him? Is it a plus due to Hedo facilitating for him? Or a negative because Monta would be handling the ball a ton and Hedo reverts to Toronto Hedo?

I know this is looking far ahead but to me its a legit concern if they both play together.

There is no 'reverting' to Toronto Hedo because that version of him was putting up better numbers than the one this season.

Earlier I thought he was headed for his best season in years but I was wrong and I'm eating crow for it. If we somehow manage to acquire Ellis, then you have to put the ball in his hands. Turk is just over the hill at this point. He has been for a while now.

[The Real Dalic]

Monta Ellis gives the illusion of being a "creator" because he can do whatever he wants. If you give a good shooter control of the offense, he is going to put up stats and highlights. Not necesarily win you games, but he'll look good.

I see Ellis putting up solid numbers if he came here, but he wouldn't be the savior and creator on the perimeter people think he is. SVG won't let him run the offense.

Cause Wall wins games right?

Where did I say anything about John Wall?

Btw, I'm not saying I don't want Ellis. I just don't buy that he is the perimeter "creator" that fixes our problems and keeps Dwight here. He has inflated stats on a high usage rate in Golden State. Trading away two or three quality contributors for Ellis alone won't make us much better than people think. Ellis is no All Star, he isn't going to be Dwight's Robin and win rings. Just can't see it.

You didn't. I'm saying that even if he was a good creator (which I think he is) he'd still lose because his TEAM sucks NOT HIM. just like Wall, he's not a bad creator by any means and his TEAM still loses cause he doesn't have enough help...

[jjtreyball]

John wall is not comparable to Ellis at all...first off if Ellis was here he'd be playing with Dwight so yes he's gonna win games...second wall can't shoot and isn't a good scorer Ellis averages 22/6 wall 15/8.