Official Speculation Thread Pt.LXII

[fendilim]

Did u see gobert last night?

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It only makes me wish Henny could have made a move to land this guy. I think him and Vuc would be a nice combination. Ola, Hark, Tobias, Gobert and Vuc.

[Gomagic44]

I hope you mean Trevor ariza who helped contribute to a championship. Is that worse than a Chris Paul who hadn't? Everyone plays their role. I don't plan on hark becoming Scottie pippin. But a bj armstrong*my 27 year old memory is strong*, I think....is not bad. He has a role.

Yes, that Trevor Ariza.

Are you suggesting we need a team of pippins , grants and Jordan's to win?

No.

But I do think he is potentially overrated around here. I Doubt he becomes the next Paul George, or what most predicts him to.

He doesn't need to be Paul George to help us win a championship. He just needs to okay his role....which at 20, he can improve on. Bj Armstrong it is..we just need to draft a Jordan or acquire him via FA. WitH the other players already here...plus a high draft pick...it is not unfeasable..and with silver at the helm...I doubt Disney...or mears...or universal*head palm* lacks the funds for our championship team.

My piont: Harkless doesn't need to be Jordan, grant, or pippin. He can serve his role and simultaneously fill the need for a peice of our championship.

So yes, he should start, until he no longer is our bj Armstrong.

[Gomagic44]

Is that too high of expectations? I don't even remember bj's defensive credentials...but Harkless
Can be a 4th option on. Championship team in orlando.

IMHO.

[The Real Dalic]

I don't think anyone here said that having Harkless on the team or as a starter would hinder our chances for a championship. So I'm not sure what you're referring to, Gomagic44.

[MagicStarwipe]

BJ Armstrong? That's fairly random.

[NickAnderson]

I think some people on here expect all of our young players to be all stars.

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[Optimus_Steel]

I think some people on here expect all of our young players to be all stars.

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I agree with you. I've said it before, seems like some people aren't happy if our young players aren't putting huge numbers each game. These guys are young and still need quite a lot of development. We are going to lose a lot of games this year, and there are going to be some really ugly games, some games our young guys are gonna look awful from time to time, but there are gonna be some really exciting moments too. I am of the attitude that I will enjoy the process of seeing our young team go thru the growing pains and see how they mature.

On Hark, he has def improved his FT shooting, his demeanor, confidence, penetration, as well as his spin move. His spin move is deadly quick and very effective, he didn't have that last year.

Still needs to work on his outside shooting, and passing. He still telegraphs too many passes, like he is thinking instead of just passing in rhythm. I still don't think he will ever be a big time scorer, but that's fine because he will be a valuable player that can wreck havoc on defense and be a opportunistic scorer. Those type of players are valuable for winning teams. I am willing to give him more time to develop instead of bashing for the things he can't do right now. Everybody on the team cant be a 20pt scorer. He looks like he wants to get better.

[NickAnderson]

^Agreed, well said.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I think some people on here expect all of our young players to be all stars.

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I agree with you. I've said it before, seems like some people aren't happy if our young players aren't putting huge numbers each game. These guys are young and still need quite a lot of development. We are going to lose a lot of games this year, and there are going to be some really ugly games, some games our young guys are gonna look awful from time to time, but there are gonna be some really exciting moments too. I am of the attitude that I will enjoy the process of seeing our young team go thru the growing pains and see how they mature.

On Hark, he has def improved his FT shooting, his demeanor, confidence, penetration, as well as his spin move. His spin move is deadly quick and very effective, he didn't have that last year.

Still needs to work on his outside shooting, and passing. He still telegraphs too many passes, like he is thinking instead of just passing in rhythm. I still don't think he will ever be a big time scorer, but that's fine because he will be a valuable player that can wreck havoc on defense and be a opportunistic scorer. Those type of players are valuable for winning teams. I am willing to give him more time to develop instead of bashing for the things he can't do right now. Everybody on the team cant be a 20pt scorer. He looks like he wants to get better.

THIS is a good assesment of his game. Not the "He CANT pass, he CANT shoot, He CANT rebound" nonsense.

[KingRobb02]

BJ Armstrong? That's fairly random.

It's the Shannon Brown effect. Bench guys on good teams are remembered too be a lot better than they were. After leaving the Bulls via fantasy draft, this guy was traded 3 times in 4 years and even had an uneventful few games for Orlando.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I hope you mean Trevor ariza who helped contribute to a championship. Is that worse than a Chris Paul who hadn't? Everyone plays their role. I don't plan on hark becoming Scottie pippin. But a bj armstrong*my 27 year old memory is strong*, I think....is not bad. He has a role.

Yes, that Trevor Ariza.

Are you suggesting we need a team of pippins , grants and Jordan's to win?

No.

But I do think he is potentially overrated around here. I Doubt he becomes the next Paul George, or what most predicts him to.

Yeah..He gets a little overrated at times but I still think Ariza is worst case. If everyone recalls, prior to last years draft I was driving the Harkless bus and made the Ariza comparisons and I would think its pretty obvious I was talking about 2009-2010 Ariza.

[Neato]

how much time does moe deserve to be judged as a successful/mediocre/terrible player?

[Neon1]

I think some people on here expect all of our young players to be all stars.

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I have no idea why these guys get offended and take it as a slap in the face if you say he should be expected to develop into a Trevor Ariza type. Like as if Ariza is some scrub stiff. Its a compliment, and more importantly it's an extremely reasonable assessment when comparing their base tools, characteristics, strengths and weakness. Yes, Moe has to IMPROVE on some things to be as good as Ariza was before he started having these nagging injuries (Ariza is a better ball handler, and a much much better passer) but the comparison is damn near identical even down to their advanced statlines.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEJq1NW205U[/youtube]

[KingRobb02]

I think some people on here expect all of our young players to be all stars.

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I have no idea why these guys get offended and take it as a slap in the face if you say he should be expected to develop into a Trevor Ariza type. Like as if Ariza is some scrub stiff. Its a compliment, and more importantly it's an extremely reasonable assessment when comparing their base tools, characteristics, strengths and weakness. Yes, Moe has to IMPROVE on some things to be as good as Ariza was before he started having these nagging injuries (Ariza is a better ball handler, and a much much better passer) but the comparison is damn near identical even down to their advanced statlines.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEJq1NW205U[/youtube]

Because sometime around 2010, Ariza figured out that scoring pays more than defending. Since then he has the worst shot selection in the NBA of anyone not named Swaggy P.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Moe's rebounding dropped off LAST year as he got more playing time. I noticed it back then, I just let it slide. The drop has continued through the offseason and preseason.

Last season splits
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... lits/2013/

Preseason
http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6591 ... e-harkless

Post ALl star his RPG went up to 5.3 from 3.8

And stop with the preseason stats. If we're going by that then Harris's avg 12 ppg...gross.

Moe averaged 3.8rpg in 19.6 (pre all star) to 5.3rpg in 35.7mpg (post all star). You know how to read stats don't pretend to be dumb.

Same as you know good and well Tobias averaging 12.3pts 5.0rpg 1.8apg 0.75blk in only 22.5mpg.

Which is 19.6ppg 8.0rpg 2.8apg 1.2blk per36 which you know you are well aware of. You are not clueless to this.

OH yeah! I guess Im not clueless about stats, By repeating the EXACT same thing I just said you've really convinced me.....
Misused PER stats again. Only here would Harkless increasing his averages be a bad thing.....

I have the most grounded expectations of Harkless and it get's everyone salty, I cant imagine what the guys that think he'll turn into Paul George are going through. Meanwhile it's totally acceptable to consider Harris an all star.

Here's what I think is going to happen, and I'll be done mainly because I know Im 100% right.

Harris is going to struggle to play with our other players (young guys, vets it doesnt matter) he's going become disengaged in games like I think he did in Milwaukee because hes going to end up playing second and maybe even third fiddle to Dipo and Vuc and probably Davis and as a result we're going to see inconsistency.

People are going to blame everyone else except Harris and scream for everyone to be traded because it's everyone else holding Harris back from being GOAT because clearly he doesnt have any shortcomings, and it's totally worth overhauling an entire roster because of his PER's.

He'll have big games and its going to get all your dicks hard, we'll see individual threads called "Why Tobias will be great- His PER 36 min stats" Then reality will settle in and we'll get a few mediocore to avg games again. My opinion will remain because I cant base anything off of 27 games, if he proves me wrong, Great! It still doesnt change anything about Moe continuing to improve so a win-win for me as a Magic fan.

[Neon1]

Because sometime around 2010, Ariza figured out that scoring pays more than defending. Since then he has the worst shot selection in the NBA of anyone not named Swaggy P.

No, that is a case of HOUSTON seeing him make splash plays in a supporting role for LA and then they paid him to come to Houston and wanted him to be the man, a role he didn't have the skillset to play. They got enamored with his flashes and big splash plays that can make him look like Tracy McGrady for a play or three a game and overextended his role beyond his capabilities.

Trevor Ariza was the perfect championship role player, part of the cast, but he was so perfect in that role people thought he was even more then he was capable of being.

So now people reverse course and go too far underrating his ability only because he couldn't match what they wanted when they overrated him previous.

THIS example above is what is going to happen with Harkless here on this board because of too many people with all the Paul George,TMac stuff.

[Blue_and_Whte]

how much time does moe deserve to be judged as a successful/mediocre/terrible player?

Apparently a few preseason games are the tell all.

[Neon1]

Post ALl star his RPG went up to 5.3 from 3.8

And stop with the preseason stats. If we're going by that then Harris's avg 12 ppg...gross.

Moe averaged 3.8rpg in 19.6 (pre all star) to 5.3rpg in 35.7mpg (post all star). You know how to read stats don't pretend to be dumb.

Same as you know good and well Tobias averaging 12.3pts 5.0rpg 1.8apg 0.75blk in only 22.5mpg.

Which is 19.6ppg 8.0rpg 2.8apg 1.2blk per36 which you know you are well aware of. You are not clueless to this.

OH yeah! I guess Im not clueless about stats, By repeating the EXACT same thing I just said you've really convinced me.....
Misused PER stats again. Only here would Harkless increasing his averages be a bad thing..

Wow....he wasn't pretending I guess, he really doesn't understand....

[NEM]

Moe averaged 3.8rpg in 19.6 (pre all star) to 5.3rpg in 35.7mpg (post all star). You know how to read stats don't pretend to be dumb.

Same as you know good and well Tobias averaging 12.3pts 5.0rpg 1.8apg 0.75blk in only 22.5mpg.

Which is 19.6ppg 8.0rpg 2.8apg 1.2blk per36 which you know you are well aware of. You are not clueless to this.

OH yeah! I guess Im not clueless about stats, By repeating the EXACT same thing I just said you've really convinced me.....
Misused PER stats again. Only here would Harkless increasing his averages be a bad thing..

Wow....he wasn't pretending I guess, he really doesn't understand....

Lol at you thinking he was pretending..

[rcklsscognition]

man this has been an entertaining page