The Magic are picking 5th. Who you got? (First pass)

[Truth24]

Dipo can guard some three's as well doesn't mean we should put him at the 3, Winslow is a guard nothing wrong with that all.

Just for more measure RJ Hunter and Delon Wright both are 6'4.5 without shoes and have similar/same wing spans and both are considered guards.

Oladipo is 6'3 w/o shoes and 6'4.5 with, I think there is a clear difference here. Obviously he can come out on the perimeter and guard SF's but ideally he's a SG. RJ Hunter is 185 and Delon Wright is 181 THOSE are guys who are built like guards. Winslow is 222 and Johnson is 242. They have the weight and strength to guard 3's more effectively while also possessing the athleticism to guard SG's that's why they're not projected to go in the high 20's-low 30's like RJ and Delon are. It's not really an issue I just don't get why suddenly there was this concern that he couldn't guard SF based on his height when he clearly can.

Winslow is built just like a guard nobody is saying he won't be able to guard a lot of 3's in the NBA but he is more suited to play the 2 than the 3 just like Lance Stephenson.

[UCFJayBird]

it is not a red flag.

It is to me. Adding a stupid hip-hop term that got made up a year or so ago to your legal, birth given name is completely immature. Who does something as major as changing your legal name to go along with a dumb fad buzzword that will quickly be replaced by the next one? Somebody who is easily influenced by stupid and trivial things.

Oh you mean like how Maybyner Rodney Hilario when by his nickname Nene and then legally changed his name to Nene. Yeah, he turn out terrible didn't he. With judgment calls like that you wouldn't have a job as a GM for long. Who cares what his name is what matters is what he can do.

Except Nene isn't really associated with gangs, thugs, or anything like that. Trill is (in some ways).

But I would point out that it's not like tattooing your face. People don't see your middle name very often. It's more like getting a tattoo on your arm or chest. It's covered for the most part, but every once in a while someone might see it. But for a company, no, that shouldn't matter.

It's also worth pointing out that everyone is not the same. I hate when people say "remember when you were 22? Weren't you reckless at times?" Is your company paying you millions of dollars for work? That's why companies do background checks, especially for employees that they plan to pay a lot of money. Also not every 22 year old was reckless like you and turned out ok. A lot of reckless 22 year olds wind up dead, on drugs, or deadbeats. That's why with something like this, they're considered a bigger risk. But I digress.

If there's anything more to "trill" than just he likes the word and it's meaning (which by the way means to be true to oneself and real to all), then i'm sure it will come up. Otherwise I couldn't care less if he changed his name.

[NEM]

:(

34% from distance is well above average for sophomore guards, and his ft% is stellar. He was a very good shooter last year in context and improved in every area. He is a good shooter.

just because it is good for sophomore guards, doesnt mean it is good. Thats like saying, someone is is tall compared to midgets. it doesnt mean they are tall.

35% from 16ft to 3 pt and 34% from 3 pt is not good shooting.

When you are using long-term vision to build a team it does. We aren't in win now mode, evaluating a rookie contract out of context doesn't sync with a rebuild. Nothing is wrong with saying Oladipo is a good shooter when he projects as a 39% 3 point threat in his prime.

If we hire thibs (and all signs are pointing to that), we are in win now mode. No actual coach is coming here to accumulate assets. That's a waste of time to the coach.

[eyriq]

:(

just because it is good for sophomore guards, doesnt mean it is good. Thats like saying, someone is is tall compared to midgets. it doesnt mean they are tall.

35% from 16ft to 3 pt and 34% from 3 pt is not good shooting.

When you are using long-term vision to build a team it does. We aren't in win now mode, evaluating a rookie contract out of context doesn't sync with a rebuild. Nothing is wrong with saying Oladipo is a good shooter when he projects as a 39% 3 point threat in his prime.

what he projects to be is completely different than what he was last year. he could be a 60% shooter next year, it still wouldnt change the fact he was not a good shooter last year.

We are grading on a different scale then. I am grading him on a scale relative to his developmental timeline. I want to know what type of Prospect he is for when he gets to his prime, is he a core guy that projects to be a dynamic scorer and a three-point threat? Yeah he is projecting to be all of that plus a two way player that brings stellar defense, high blocks high steals for his position I'm looking at the big picture cuz he's on his rookie contract.

Edit: holy voice recognition Batman

[tiderulz]

he is 22 yrs old. Go back to when you were 22. I know i was partying too much, diving off train tracks into a river, a job with no future just to pay bills. I wasnt a soon to be multi-millionaire, who also has spent time doing charity work at hospitals.

Changing your legal name to include Trill is like tattooing your face. If you were an employer at a decent place of employment for a position that involves customer interaction, would you hire somebody with tattoos and piercings all over their face?

[tiderulz]

:(
When you are using long-term vision to build a team it does. We aren't in win now mode, evaluating a rookie contract out of context doesn't sync with a rebuild. Nothing is wrong with saying Oladipo is a good shooter when he projects as a 39% 3 point threat in his prime.

what he projects to be is completely different than what he was last year. he could be a 60% shooter next year, it still wouldnt change the fact he was not a good shooter last year.

We are grading on a different scale then. I am grading him on a scale relative to his developmental timeline. I want to know what type of Prospect he is for when he gets to his prime, is he a core guy that projects to be a dynamic scorer and a three-point threat? Yeah he is projecting to be all of that plus a two way player that brings stellar defense, high blocks high steals for his position I'm looking at the big picture cuz he's on his rookie contract.

Edit: holy voice recognition Batman

there is your problem. I wasnt grading him. I was making a statement that he did not shoot good last year. which he did not. I wasnt saying he was going to get better, that in the future he will be an all-star, just that performance wise last year, he was not a good shooter.

[Skin]

So this is the declaration thread? mmmk.

After a lot of deliberation, my choice for the Magic is Willie "Trill" Cauley-Stein!

Let's see if he covers the bases for what Henny looks for:

Top Tier Defender - check
Highly Athletic - check
High BBIQ - check
Team Player - check
Hustles on the court - check
Hard Worker off the court - check
College Upperclassman - check
Has shown an improvement trend - check
Plays above the rim - check

Let's see if his weaknesses are ones that Henny has forgiven in the past:

Needs to improve offensive game - yep! Henny don't mind

All things considered I would draft WCS if I were in Henny's shoes. WCS is a safe player. You know what you will get. WCS will add a nasty streak to a team that needs more of it. WCS fits!

We are 1 of 2 teams in the entire NBA that has 3 players that averaged over 17 ppg. The Bulls (Rose, Butler, Gasol) and us (Oladipo, Harris, Vucevic). What this team needs more than any other thing is a defensive force like WCS. Dedmon is not that player. Dedmon is a post defender only. WCS can defend 1-5. Trump.

Our shooting will suck if we take WCS? First off, Henny and I (yes, we're a team lol) aren't banking on Payton and Dipo struggling with their 3 ball forever. Two, we're re-signing Harris. Three, Gordon is gonna open eyes. ...and Four, RELEASE THE FRYE!!!! Oh and one more thing... our ability to attack inside will open up better shots outside.

WCS isn't the perfect player, but at the 5th pick, we can't be greedy. Draft him and laugh it up all the way to the bank!

Come again... what? I agree with all those words 100%, but, WHAT? No Porzingis for you, Skin?

I never was tied to just one guy. I'm certainly not closed-minded to KP. But I don't allow myself to get trapped into supporting only one guy. I also created the Portis thread. I would like him too if we traded down or acquired another pick. I wouldn't be upset with Myles Turner either. I'm very close to liking him at times.

What I don't want to do is walk away from this draft having taken another SG/SF. IF we do, we better have a plan to fix PF this offseason. I don't want to go into next year in the same position as this past year having the same rotation at PF.

[magicfan217]

The thing about WCS is you know he's not going to be a bust....but by the same account you also know he's not going to be a star. You aren't drafting a franchise cornerstone max player...but you are drafting someone who will be in the rotation and give you solid minutes from the get go.

To me he looks like Tyson Chandler 2.0...if he's that good I dont think anyone would be upset about taking him at 5.

none of these prospects have definite potential. WCS can be just as much of a bust as anyone or as good of a player as anyone. Total crap shoot.

While I agree with that to some extent, I think it's fair to describe prospects by high ceiling/low ceiling and high floor/low floor. I feel that WCS is a high floor/low ceiling type of prospect.

[2Mas]

Do you think Gordon is the future 3 or 4 man for the team?

I do agree that Winslow is prob better suited for the 2 spot. So if you take an it'll guy, you take Porzingis or Hezonja?

[eyriq]

what he projects to be is completely different than what he was last year. he could be a 60% shooter next year, it still wouldnt change the fact he was not a good shooter last year.

We are grading on a different scale then. I am grading him on a scale relative to his developmental timeline. I want to know what type of Prospect he is for when he gets to his prime, is he a core guy that projects to be a dynamic scorer and a three-point threat? Yeah he is projecting to be all of that plus a two way player that brings stellar defense, high blocks high steals for his position I'm looking at the big picture cuz he's on his rookie contract.

Edit: holy voice recognition Batman

there is your problem. I wasnt grading him. I was making a statement that he did not shoot good last year. which he did not. I wasnt saying he was going to get better, that in the future he will be an all-star, just that performance wise last year, he was not a good shooter.

"Good" is a grade. For a sophomore guard he is a good shooter.

[OrlandO]

I'm posting this in here as well since the concern about Winslow's height seems to be an ongoing discussion in this thread.





For comparison


I don't see in why he's not going to be able to guard 3's.... I think people are overreacting to his measurements. Clearly a 6'10 wing span, and elite athleticism should make up for the half inch it would take to make him 6'7..The realGm mandated height for a SF....

i dont normally take someone's measurements into account for barefoot, as they will never play barefoot, but where there is a 2" difference in the heights, how big are his shoes? and athleticism helps, until you are in the post against someone 3-5 inches taller than you

Right so obviously a 6'10 SF would be a tough cover for any "standard" sized SF But by all accounts Butler and Johnson (perceived) can effectively guard SF's.... Am I missing something or did Butler not guard SF's?

I'm posting this in here as well since the concern about Winslow's height seems to be an ongoing discussion.
He will probably be fine since he can defend and has length, but he clearly wore thicker shoes to get that full 2" increase documented. Don't know who he thinks he's fooling, but he's 6'6 with regular shoes.

Im not debating what his height is, what I'm saying is why does it matter? I think people are searching for a reason not to draft him but his ability to defend SF's isn't one of them. Plus were talking about half an inch. Johnson measured 6'5 w/o shoes 6'6.5 with and Winslow was 6'4.5 w/o 6'6.5 with. Come on... Do we need to start looking at what kind of shoes these guys have on now? He'll have little to no issue guards 2's and 3's.

Well I said he would likely be fine defending SFs, but you said he was half an inch short of 6'7 so I was just correcting you. If we're going to state his height it should be 6'6 with shoes, not the BS height he got using inserts or heels or whatever. But I'm not going to lie... I'm slightly annoyed he went out of his way to fudge his height like that. It's bad enough when teams/players do it on unofficial listings, but at the combine? I don't think I've ever seen a lottery pick listed with 2" shoes at the combine, have you? It may not be a big deal in terms of his abilities, but the dishonesty still says something about him.

[tiderulz]

there is your problem. I wasnt grading him. I was making a statement that he did not shoot good last year. which he did not. I wasnt saying he was going to get better, that in the future he will be an all-star, just that performance wise last year, he was not a good shooter.

"Good" is a grade. For a sophomore guard he is a good shooter.

so when we have someone shoot 35% from distance and 34% from 3 pt range, you consider that good. you have set the bar really low in my opinion for what you deem as a good shooting % from a shooting guard.

[OrlandO]

I don't think a guy who changed his middle name to "trill" aligns with what the Magic look for in high character individuals. Plus at 5 that would be a slight reach, would want us to trade down if they really want to get "trill".

how does changing your name = bad character? has he been in trouble with the law? associated with bad people? ive seen nothing that says bad character from him

It's more of a maturity thing. It's not the biggest deal in the world but don't act like it's not a red flag and needs to be looked into with his background as with all the other draft candidates.

I'd classify it as annoying and maybe a glimpse into a slight personality flaw... just like Winslow's cheap trick to boost his height at the combine.

[tiderulz]

[

how does changing your name = bad character? has he been in trouble with the law? associated with bad people? ive seen nothing that says bad character from him

It's more of a maturity thing. It's not the biggest deal in the world but don't act like it's not a red flag and needs to be looked into with his background as with all the other draft candidates.

I'd classify it as annoying and maybe a glimpse into a slight personality flaw... just like Winslow's cheap trick to boost his height at the combine.

a personality flaw? of someone changing their middle name.

RealGM board never disappoints.

[BCS]

Hmm...I've been keeping an eye on the Pistons and their 8th pick. I know SVG is pretty high on the guys we have and he has always wanted a stretch 4. I wonder if we could bait them to trade their pick.

2 of Hark/Nicholson/Frye+2nd rd pick+a future 1st or two.....maybe take some of Smith owed salary as well if possible.

[Truth24]

It's more of a maturity thing. It's not the biggest deal in the world but don't act like it's not a red flag and needs to be looked into with his background as with all the other draft candidates.

I'd classify it as annoying and maybe a glimpse into a slight personality flaw... just like Winslow's cheap trick to boost his height at the combine.

a personality flaw? of someone changing their middle name.

RealGM board never disappoints.

I think the only thing it really shows is a bad choice and a little on the dumb side at that but it fits into what is known about WCS and the fact that he isn't the brightest bulb.

[OrlandO]

It's more of a maturity thing. It's not the biggest deal in the world but don't act like it's not a red flag and needs to be looked into with his background as with all the other draft candidates.

I'd classify it as annoying and maybe a glimpse into a slight personality flaw... just like Winslow's cheap trick to boost his height at the combine.

a personality flaw? of someone changing their middle name.

RealGM board never disappoints.

I qualified it with "slight." He didn't just change his middle name, he changed it to something that would make most people raise their brow at first notice and it makes him look like a damn fool. It is not something I'd hold against him in terms of drafting... in fact, at this point my top choice at 5 is actually WCS, so clearly I'm not holding it against him. I'm not going to defend the name change though... i'd prefer if that didn't happen. What if Oladipo changed his middle name to feathery? Are you going to pretend it's not stupid?

[TreasureCoast]

It's more of a maturity thing. It's not the biggest deal in the world but don't act like it's not a red flag and needs to be looked into with his background as with all the other draft candidates.

it is not a red flag.

It is to me. Adding a stupid hip-hop term that got made up a year or so ago to your legal, birth given name is completely immature. Who does something as major as changing your legal name to go along with a dumb fad buzzword that will quickly be replaced by the next one? Somebody who is easily influenced by stupid and trivial things.

Exactly.

It doesn't mean he is some gang member thug, but it shows he makes questionable decisions.

If you don't think GM's and scouts look at that stuff you are naive, years of research and data goes into each of these guys.

[tiderulz]

a personality flaw? of someone changing their middle name.

RealGM board never disappoints.

I qualified it with "slight." He didn't just change his middle name, he changed it to something that would make most people raise their brow at first notice and it makes him look like a damn fool. It is not something I'd hold against him in terms of drafting... in fact, at this point my top choice at 5 is actually WCS, so clearly I'm not holding it against him. I'm not going to defend the name change though... i'd prefer if that didn't happen. What if Oladipo changed his middle name to feathery? Are you going to pretend it's not stupid?

would i think its dumb? yes. Would i think its a red flag or personality flaw? nope.

[TreasureCoast]

a personality flaw? of someone changing their middle name.

RealGM board never disappoints.

I qualified it with "slight." He didn't just change his middle name, he changed it to something that would make most people raise their brow at first notice and it makes him look like a damn fool. It is not something I'd hold against him in terms of drafting... in fact, at this point my top choice at 5 is actually WCS, so clearly I'm not holding it against him. I'm not going to defend the name change though... i'd prefer if that didn't happen. What if Oladipo changed his middle name to feathery? Are you going to pretend it's not stupid?

would i think its dumb? yes. Would i think its a red flag or personality flaw? nope.

I am going to say it even though this is an extreme example.....Metta World Peace. Clearly that guy has some screws loose, even "Swaggy P" or whatever he calls himself, wouldn't touch those guys with a 10 foot pole. Now does "trill" have the same personality as those 2 dumb a$$es? That's for Henny and Co. to figure out, but it IS a red flag