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The Mario Thread 2016-17

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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#121 » by PennytoShaq » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:49 pm

Magic_Kingdom wrote:
Optimus_Steel wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:
The season hasn't even started yet and he's already a bust? Get out of here with that stuff. :banghead:



I think we are all dissapointed with his preseason performace but he had very good perfomances in real games that counted last year so its def premature to talk like that.


How many "very good" performances did he have last season? For the #5 pick to not even make 2nd-Team All-Rookie (and he barely got any votes at all), that tells you something. And it's not like he was drafted by a good team so couldn't get the minutes. The whole sales pitch on Mario was that he would be ready to go from Day 1 because he had been playing pro ball forever and was more polished and game-ready than Porzingis. Obviously that wasn't the case.


Anyone who believed that is crazy. The Euro pro game is a lot different than the NBA. That should be common knowledge by now just by looking at minutes and stat lines. Mario has already said that what he did overseas compared to what he needs to do here is a lot different.
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#122 » by pepe1991 » Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:34 pm

Magic_Kingdom wrote:
Optimus_Steel wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:
The season hasn't even started yet and he's already a bust? Get out of here with that stuff. :banghead:



I think we are all dissapointed with his preseason performace but he had very good perfomances in real games that counted last year so its def premature to talk like that.


How many "very good" performances did he have last season? For the #5 pick to not even make 2nd-Team All-Rookie (and he barely got any votes at all), that tells you something. And it's not like he was drafted by a good team so couldn't get the minutes. The whole sales pitch on Mario was that he would be ready to go from Day 1 because he had been playing pro ball forever and was more polished and game-ready than Porzingis. Obviously that wasn't the case.


If you look last 3,4 drafts you will soon figure out that PF/Cs are now always more NBA ready than guards and point guards.
Last year you had Zingis, KAT and Jah. ( with good rookie years from Trey Lyles, Turner ,even Kaminsky ) Not a single guard was starting level guard from gates. Booker and Russell are black holes on defense ,and their teams are dumpsterfire .That's why they were starters ( we talk about below 25 wins teams ).

2014- Parker wasn't ready to start, hell,he wasn't really ready for start even last year. Wiggins put up some raw stats,his defense and efficiency are still awful. Again, player on below 30 wins team. Gordon, Smart, Stauskas,McDermott, Exum couldn't help his team from gates, S

It is what it is. This jumping on calling somebody bust after 1 year where he played 18 mpg , and had bad preseason, if you know he is 21 years old is definition of overreaction.
By percentages, he finished rookie year 7# in 3 point percentage. Among 6 above him only Russell was younger than him, others were from 23,24 to 28 years old .
By FG % he was 15# among rookies,above him mostly PFs and Cs, and guys who are closer to 30 than 20 but still in cateory of rookies ( like Marjanović and Willie Reed and Jonathan Simmons ).
First in free trow percentages.

So now , put things in perpective and lay low. He can shoot,he is just having slump. It happened to much better, more experienced players than him so why it can't happen to him? And it happend during freaking preseason that counts as practice that just happens to be shown on tv ( sometimes not even that)
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#123 » by Xatticus » Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:45 pm

Tayswagzzz wrote:Lol Mario playing on a different team is not the solution to be a great player. He can be a great player here in Orlando. He will learn defense & how to work within a team orientated offense here. Give the man time. He's got a great shot, great athleticism, needs to improve defensively & lessen his TO's, which will mean working on ball handling & decision making. The framework for a great player is all there guys, he just needs time to learn. Don't call him a bust yet. :crazy:


He has the tools to be very good, but his decision-making is very poor at this point. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm concerned that he hasn't shown any progress in this area. He just seems to lack a real awareness about what is going on around him. He is technically and athletically gifted, but his tactical understanding of the game is lacking at both ends.

Any team sport requires a spatial awareness of everything and everyone on the field of play. We subconsciously evaluate all the moving pieces around us and adjust our positioning and focus constantly. Some people are very good at this and seem to be in the right place at the right time with regularity. Hezonja just seems exceptionally poor to me in this regard. He floats around aimlessly while hoping to get involved.

We all want to see rapid progress from him, but I think his development is going to take a long time and I think that there is a good chance he is playing elsewhere by the time he is a productive basketball player.
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#124 » by Dubious Kitty » Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:52 pm

PennytoShaq wrote:
Dubious Kitty wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:Anyone see Klay Thompson suck last night? If Mario had a night like that, he'd be crucified here. Just food for thought.


Did you really just do that...

really...


Please. Compared to the stuff on game threads here, what I "just did" is actually rational thought in comparison.

In case you didn't get it, Mario and Klay are similar players in terms of being jump shooters who can go ice cold in game sometimes. If you think I am saying Mario is as good as Klay, you don't get my post.


Yes, but your logic stinks.

What you don't get is that if Klay has a bad game, he has precedence that tells us it's likely just a fluke -- therefore, an overreaction to one bad game would be nonsensical. Dude is a 2× NBA All-Star, NBA Three-Point Contest champion, and most importantly, an NBA champion. Mario is still trying to crack the rotation on a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 4 years.

See the difference?

Also, Mario has no such precedence to go on -- we don't know if a bad game is going to be the norm or a fluke. Therefore, a discussion about how bad his game was can be warranted and justified because it's part of his continued analysis as a player that's still trying to fit into the NBA.

Finally, you can't use the word "sometimes" to describe both players going "cold". Thompson goes cold occasionally. Hezonja goes cold pretty regularly. That's the difference and it's not even close.
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#125 » by axl_c_cool » Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:07 pm

Xatticus wrote:
Tayswagzzz wrote:Lol Mario playing on a different team is not the solution to be a great player. He can be a great player here in Orlando. He will learn defense & how to work within a team orientated offense here. Give the man time. He's got a great shot, great athleticism, needs to improve defensively & lessen his TO's, which will mean working on ball handling & decision making. The framework for a great player is all there guys, he just needs time to learn. Don't call him a bust yet. :crazy:


He has the tools to be very good, but his decision-making is very poor at this point. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm concerned that he hasn't shown any progress in this area. He just seems to lack a real awareness about what is going on around him. He is technically and athletically gifted, but his tactical understanding of the game is lacking at both ends.

Any team sport requires a spatial awareness of everything and everyone on the field of play. We subconsciously evaluate all the moving pieces around us and adjust our positioning and focus constantly. Some people are very good at this and seem to be in the right place at the right time with regularity. Hezonja just seems exceptionally poor to me in this regard. He floats around aimlessly while hoping to get involved.

We all want to see rapid progress from him, but I think his development is going to take a long time and I think that there is a good chance he is playing elsewhere by the time he is a productive basketball player.




I agree unfortunatly on most of this and hope he's here when's he's finished because he's going to be special. He hasn't improved his awareness, because he needs to play. There is no substitute for playing, no drills can replicate a game, that's why maybe the D league would be good for him, he's from a different country and style of play, he needs minutes. Hopefully he gets them this season, he should average 22-28 per night backing up 2 positions. Mario is legit, he has the ability, and work ethic, just needs to play!
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#126 » by Dennis Reynolds » Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:32 pm

axl_c_cool wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
Tayswagzzz wrote:Lol Mario playing on a different team is not the solution to be a great player. He can be a great player here in Orlando. He will learn defense & how to work within a team orientated offense here. Give the man time. He's got a great shot, great athleticism, needs to improve defensively & lessen his TO's, which will mean working on ball handling & decision making. The framework for a great player is all there guys, he just needs time to learn. Don't call him a bust yet. :crazy:


He has the tools to be very good, but his decision-making is very poor at this point. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm concerned that he hasn't shown any progress in this area. He just seems to lack a real awareness about what is going on around him. He is technically and athletically gifted, but his tactical understanding of the game is lacking at both ends.

Any team sport requires a spatial awareness of everything and everyone on the field of play. We subconsciously evaluate all the moving pieces around us and adjust our positioning and focus constantly. Some people are very good at this and seem to be in the right place at the right time with regularity. Hezonja just seems exceptionally poor to me in this regard. He floats around aimlessly while hoping to get involved.

We all want to see rapid progress from him, but I think his development is going to take a long time and I think that there is a good chance he is playing elsewhere by the time he is a productive basketball player.




I agree unfortunatly on most of this and hope he's here when's he's finished because he's going to be special. He hasn't improved his awareness, because he needs to play. There is no substitute for playing, no drills can replicate a game, that's why maybe the D league would be good for him, he's from a different country and style of play, he needs minutes. Hopefully he gets them this season, he should average 22-28 per night backing up 2 positions. Mario is legit, he has the ability, and work ethic, just needs to play!


Finally some quality posts on this topic. Agree with all of you guys :)
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#127 » by PennytoShaq » Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:24 am

Dubious Kitty wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:
Dubious Kitty wrote:
Did you really just do that...

really...


Please. Compared to the stuff on game threads here, what I "just did" is actually rational thought in comparison.

In case you didn't get it, Mario and Klay are similar players in terms of being jump shooters who can go ice cold in game sometimes. If you think I am saying Mario is as good as Klay, you don't get my post.


Yes, but your logic stinks.

What you don't get is that if Klay has a bad game, he has precedence that tells us it's likely just a fluke -- therefore, an overreaction to one bad game would be nonsensical. Dude is a 2× NBA All-Star, NBA Three-Point Contest champion, and most importantly, an NBA champion. Mario is still trying to crack the rotation on a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 4 years.

See the difference?

Also, Mario has no such precedence to go on -- we don't know if a bad game is going to be the norm or a fluke. Therefore, a discussion about how bad his game was can be warranted and justified because it's part of his continued analysis as a player that's still trying to fit into the NBA.

Finally, you can't use the word "sometimes" to describe both players going "cold". Thompson goes cold occasionally. Hezonja goes cold pretty regularly. That's the difference and it's not even close.



My logic doesnt stink at all. You still dont understand what i was saying which is proved in this post.
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#128 » by Bensational » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:50 am

axl_c_cool wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
Tayswagzzz wrote:Lol Mario playing on a different team is not the solution to be a great player. He can be a great player here in Orlando. He will learn defense & how to work within a team orientated offense here. Give the man time. He's got a great shot, great athleticism, needs to improve defensively & lessen his TO's, which will mean working on ball handling & decision making. The framework for a great player is all there guys, he just needs time to learn. Don't call him a bust yet. :crazy:


He has the tools to be very good, but his decision-making is very poor at this point. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm concerned that he hasn't shown any progress in this area. He just seems to lack a real awareness about what is going on around him. He is technically and athletically gifted, but his tactical understanding of the game is lacking at both ends.

Any team sport requires a spatial awareness of everything and everyone on the field of play. We subconsciously evaluate all the moving pieces around us and adjust our positioning and focus constantly. Some people are very good at this and seem to be in the right place at the right time with regularity. Hezonja just seems exceptionally poor to me in this regard. He floats around aimlessly while hoping to get involved.

We all want to see rapid progress from him, but I think his development is going to take a long time and I think that there is a good chance he is playing elsewhere by the time he is a productive basketball player.




I agree unfortunatly on most of this and hope he's here when's he's finished because he's going to be special. He hasn't improved his awareness, because he needs to play. There is no substitute for playing, no drills can replicate a game, that's why maybe the D league would be good for him, he's from a different country and style of play, he needs minutes. Hopefully he gets them this season, he should average 22-28 per night backing up 2 positions. Mario is legit, he has the ability, and work ethic, just needs to play!


He might be more of a Hedo-like late bloomer? I still want to see what he looks like after a full season under Vogel and Forcier. If he's still looking as far behind the development curve at the end of this season as he is currently then I might consider trading him, rather than waiting for him to pay off.

If only we could trade him for Rodney Hood...
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#129 » by NBAchamps2017 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:43 am

tough to swallow but, seeing Myles Turner put up stats like 30pts 16reb, not mention how solid is Winslow and how smooth is Devin Booker; I want to :banghead:
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#130 » by fendilim » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:58 am

NBAchamps2017 wrote:tough to swallow but, seeing Myles Turner put up stats like 30pts 16reb, not mention how solid is Winslow and how smooth is Devin Booker; I want to :banghead:

Seriously? We hardly even ran a good iso play for the so-called next Paul George. What more for hezonja?
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#131 » by monchief » Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:46 am

fendilim wrote:
NBAchamps2017 wrote:tough to swallow but, seeing Myles Turner put up stats like 30pts 16reb, not mention how solid is Winslow and how smooth is Devin Booker; I want to :banghead:

Seriously? We hardly even ran a good iso play for the so-called next Paul George. What more for hezonja?


They need to dial him back to the rookie contract JJ Redick play of just playing smart defense and only using him on offense in sets where he gets the option of shooting off a screen or moving the ball right away. His handle is a disaster and his awareness is extremely low.

People need to give up on him being a star for now. Let's just get him to "ok contributor". And playing time is not his problem, he looks worse than he did as a rookie.
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#132 » by fendilim » Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:49 am

monchief wrote:
fendilim wrote:
NBAchamps2017 wrote:tough to swallow but, seeing Myles Turner put up stats like 30pts 16reb, not mention how solid is Winslow and how smooth is Devin Booker; I want to :banghead:

Seriously? We hardly even ran a good iso play for the so-called next Paul George. What more for hezonja?


They need to dial him back to the rookie contract JJ Redick play of just playing smart defense and only using him on offense in sets where he gets the option of shooting off a screen or moving the ball right away. His handle is a disaster and his awareness is extremely low.

People need to give up on him being a star for now. Let's just get him to "ok contributor". And playing time is not his problem, he looks worse than he did as a rookie.

Or maybe the expectation got high after his rookie year ;)
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#133 » by OrlChamps2030 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:04 pm

Hezonja looked lost out there again last night. Game is just moving too fast for him. On a team with playoff aspirations, I just don't think he'll get the time he needs to learn how to play NBA basketball.
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#134 » by pepe1991 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:07 pm

fendilim wrote:
NBAchamps2017 wrote:tough to swallow but, seeing Myles Turner put up stats like 30pts 16reb, not mention how solid is Winslow and how smooth is Devin Booker; I want to :banghead:

Seriously? We hardly even ran a good iso play for the so-called next Paul George. What more for hezonja?


Do you really belive that Turner would have freedom to play like that in Orlando? Last Magic player with that much freedom was who? T mac? Turner is C, as long as they are in love with Vučević they would never remove leash from Turner, or any other young center, or any other young player for that matter.

Watched Suns to see my guy Bender. Now you something you should know about worst runned organisation in NBA -orginal plan was to DNP 4# pick and give Chriss 7-8 min . Do you know who plays before them? Dudley and PJ Tucker. 6'7 fat guy who can't jump over phonebook and 6'6 dude . That's Suns PFs right !
Now when you know that, you should know that stats don't always tell you all. Booker did score 6 points in second quater but got frustated and pushed DMC and was benched. His defense is something else. It's hard to explain how each and every guard not named Eric Bledose on that team is awful on defense . They menaged to make Gay look like Lebron. ( 22 points, 4 blocks, 3 rebounds, efficient offense? Whaaat? ).

Now back to Miami- Magic and Winslow, and all Magic players.

WInslow played well. Do you know why? Because he has purpose on the floor defined by his coach. How many Magic players have purpose? Hezonja is there to stand in corner. That's not purpose. Gordon is there because it would look bad to not play highest draft pick from 2 years ago. That's only reason why he starts.
Somehow everything that Mario or Gordon do is viewed through a microscope and analyzed to little details. So why other Magic player don't have same treatment?
I saw Nikola Vučević through preseason and last night that got killed by each and every pick&roll, that can't box out when he should, that takes some questionable shots and that scores 18 and allows opponent to score 30 on him last night ( pretty much all Whitesdies and Dragić points were on him and Payton ).
I saw Ibaka, that team traded half of team away for- that has no offensive game whatsoever but who thinks he should be offensive option. He has most robotic, unnatural body movment i have ever seen. He can pick&pop once every few possessions. yeey, We could keep Jason Smith for that too and pay him around $15M less next year. How da F you play 36 min with zero assists? Is he really that blind?

Green ? LOOL JEFF FREAKING GREEN. To actually rebound you should actually box out dude ! 30 years old ,not knowing fundametals of basketball. And this shooting is "real" Jeff. Really low FG% 3 point percentage and efficiency in general.

What to say about Evan? When his shooting is off he shoots more. He got big money and now he will act like Harden outthere? His defense was really bad, Tyler Johnson was beating living life out of him (even Waiters... ) . 4 assists, 4 rebounds in 39 min.

Payton Is there even a point to talk about him at this point? "Pass first" PG who can't pass or shoot.

Not a single starter played less than 35 min. But heeeeeeeeeeeeey let's focus on Mario who played 14 and blame him for this fiasco ! Dude had 2 assists in 14 min, that's 2 more than ibaka in 36 min.

Biggest problem with this team is that you have 2 guys that pass to each other only (Vuc and Evan ) , that ball movment in general is bad and that nobody can hide black hole on defense named NIkola Vučević and black hole on offense named Elfrid Payton.
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#135 » by pepe1991 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:09 pm

Zmill wrote:Hezonja looked lost out there again last night. Game is just moving too fast for him. On a team with playoff aspirations, I just don't think he'll get the time he needs to learn how to play NBA basketball.


Ibaka also looked lost, game is moving too fast for him. Player who will ask $25M next year.
Game is also too fast for vučević on defense.
Game is also too fast for Payton.
Game is too fast for Green who needs 45 seconds to position himslef to box out.

Maybe team is just bad in general? :lol:
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#136 » by OrlChamps2030 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:22 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Zmill wrote:Hezonja looked lost out there again last night. Game is just moving too fast for him. On a team with playoff aspirations, I just don't think he'll get the time he needs to learn how to play NBA basketball.


Ibaka also looked lost, game is moving too fast for him. Player who will ask $25M next year.
Game is also too fast for vučević on defense.
Game is also too fast for Payton.
Game is too fast for Green who needs 45 seconds to position himslef to box out.

Maybe team is just bad in general? :lol:


You're acting like people here are happy with the team's play last night. Or that people are blaming Mario for the loss. Neither are true. Once again: I just wanted to see more from Mario.. The guy that was drafted ahead of Turner, Booker, Winslow, and Lyles.
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#137 » by Def Swami » Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:31 pm

PennytoShaq wrote:
Dubious Kitty wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:Anyone see Klay Thompson suck last night? If Mario had a night like that, he'd be crucified here. Just food for thought.


Did you really just do that...

really...


Please. Compared to the stuff on game threads here, what I "just did" is actually rational thought in comparison.

In case you didn't get it, Mario and Klay are similar players in terms of being jump shooters who can go ice cold in game sometimes. If you think I am saying Mario is as good as Klay, you don't get my post.

You can give Klay Thompson lee-way because we've seen that guy turn into a human flamethrower for several games in the season and post-season. He has a body of work (career 18 ppg on 45/41/85 splits) to know he's going to be just fine over the course of 82 games. You can't say the same for Hezonja.
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#138 » by Def Swami » Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:32 pm

NBAchamps2017 wrote:tough to swallow but, seeing Myles Turner put up stats like 30pts 16reb, not mention how solid is Winslow and how smooth is Devin Booker; I want to :banghead:

I always thought the pick was kind of dubious with Myles Turner, who fit every thing we wanted and needed at the time, was just sitting there.
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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#139 » by Tayswagzzz » Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:45 pm

Def Swami wrote:
NBAchamps2017 wrote:tough to swallow but, seeing Myles Turner put up stats like 30pts 16reb, not mention how solid is Winslow and how smooth is Devin Booker; I want to :banghead:

I always thought the pick was kind of dubious with Myles Turner, who fit every thing we wanted and needed at the time, was just sitting there.


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Re: The Mario Thread 2016-17 

Post#140 » by pepe1991 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:57 pm

Def Swami wrote:
NBAchamps2017 wrote:tough to swallow but, seeing Myles Turner put up stats like 30pts 16reb, not mention how solid is Winslow and how smooth is Devin Booker; I want to :banghead:

I always thought the pick was kind of dubious with Myles Turner, who fit every thing we wanted and needed at the time, was just sitting there.


Didn't team actually wanted shooting from outside ? Having Elf, Oladipo , Gordon and Harris who couldn't do that?
Turner is C in todays NBA. So,even if you drafted him he would never get time to shine because Magic view Vučević as god :banghead:

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