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Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory

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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#121 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Wed Mar 4, 2020 12:46 am

PrimeThyme wrote:
fbeye343 wrote:Should Fultz be our PG of the future?

Should he be and can he be are the two questions for me right now. I do not believe based on what we've seen so far that he should be our point guard off the future. I'm just not particularly interested in committing longterm in 2020 to a point guard who is reluctant to shoot outside of the paint.

With that being said though, I'm not at the point where I'm ready to cut bait with him either. I'm willing to give him until next trade deadline to see if he can begin to regain his shot. I have to be honest with you tho, I'm just not that confident he will. I think that shoulder injury is still bothering him and it may have permanently affected his shot.

I'm basically at the point with Fultz where he hasn't shown so much so far that I wouldn't jump at the opportunity for a significant upgrade at the position this summer, but I wouldn't move on from him for the sake of moving on either. The dreams of him developing into a top 15 type scorer are gone for me && I'd be thrilled if he developed into an above-average type starter.


Pretty much same mindset for me, should he be and can he be seems to be 2 huge questions. I’m not going to shoe horn him into long term if I can get an upgrade but I’m not going after everything. I’m absolutely looking to resign super friendly deal like 4 year 45M and if he wants more then he can go. Magic absolutely have to find a PG somewhere because 32 year old DJ and bumass MCW isn’t it.
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#122 » by Ducklett » Wed Mar 4, 2020 2:51 am

Knightro wrote:Steve Clifford is a solid, unspectacular basketball coach, but not even two years into his tenure I already find myself growing tired of him.

He's just a low ceiling coach. Perfectly capable of taking a 20 or 25 win team and improving them by 10-15 wins up to a 35-40 win team, but simply not capable of doing anything else beyond that.

The NBA has been aggressively trending towards pace and space for the last few years and Clifford prefers to play slow, play safe and play mistake free.

The Four Factors stuff that Clifford pushes so hard is fine. It definitely can turn a bad team into a middle of the road team. But Steve just has no answers outside of "we gotta play harder" when things aren't going well because he's so rigid with everything.

Substitutions are the same. Rotations are the same. Play calls are the same. Everything is structured. Everything is planned out in advance. While I totally see the value in consistency, there's just just no flexibility to pivot to something different when things don't go as planned.

You pretty much know what you're going to get with a Steve Clifford team and that's somewhere between 35-45 wins depending on player health/guys having career years.


He has the same problems as SVG had/has, but is worse than him in coaching in pretty much every way except not looking like Ron Jeremy.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#123 » by fendilim » Wed Mar 4, 2020 3:02 am

Knightro wrote:Steve Clifford is a solid, unspectacular basketball coach, but not even two years into his tenure I already find myself growing tired of him.

He's just a low ceiling coach. Perfectly capable of taking a 20 or 25 win team and improving them by 10-15 wins up to a 35-40 win team, but simply not capable of doing anything else beyond that.

The NBA has been aggressively trending towards pace and space for the last few years and Clifford prefers to play slow, play safe and play mistake free.

The Four Factors stuff that Clifford pushes so hard is fine. It definitely can turn a bad team into a middle of the road team. But Steve just has no answers outside of "we gotta play harder" when things aren't going well because he's so rigid with everything.

Substitutions are the same. Rotations are the same. Play calls are the same. Everything is structured. Everything is planned out in advance. While I totally see the value in consistency, there's just just no flexibility to pivot to something different when things don't go as planned.

You pretty much know what you're going to get with a Steve Clifford team and that's somewhere between 35-45 wins depending on player health/guys having career years.
this is true as a fact.

But i wouldnt put the blame totally on clifford. You also need the personnel to pace and space. We dont even have enough floor spacer to space the floor. Our starting 5, only has 1 legitimate player over 40% from three. Outside of Ross, Vuc and Fournier, there really is no one else opponents respect.

Our 6th man, is an inconsistent shooter, add the fact that we keep running plays for Ross to free himself up, but if the personnel he’s been given are 4 other players who opponents dont respect offensively, then its easy to guard those plays also.

Thats why clifford has to rely on rhythm and a system to put things in order, with a roster built for chaos.

I see steve more as a coach That was brought in that can stabilize a team, but to bring us over the top, we might need Tim Duncan who has a perfect record. :wink:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#124 » by Xatticus » Wed Mar 4, 2020 5:10 am

fendilim wrote:
Knightro wrote:Steve Clifford is a solid, unspectacular basketball coach, but not even two years into his tenure I already find myself growing tired of him.

He's just a low ceiling coach. Perfectly capable of taking a 20 or 25 win team and improving them by 10-15 wins up to a 35-40 win team, but simply not capable of doing anything else beyond that.

The NBA has been aggressively trending towards pace and space for the last few years and Clifford prefers to play slow, play safe and play mistake free.

The Four Factors stuff that Clifford pushes so hard is fine. It definitely can turn a bad team into a middle of the road team. But Steve just has no answers outside of "we gotta play harder" when things aren't going well because he's so rigid with everything.

Substitutions are the same. Rotations are the same. Play calls are the same. Everything is structured. Everything is planned out in advance. While I totally see the value in consistency, there's just just no flexibility to pivot to something different when things don't go as planned.

You pretty much know what you're going to get with a Steve Clifford team and that's somewhere between 35-45 wins depending on player health/guys having career years.
this is true as a fact.

But i wouldnt put the blame totally on clifford. You also need the personnel to pace and space. We dont even have enough floor spacer to space the floor. Our starting 5, only has 1 legitimate player over 40% from three. Outside of Ross, Vuc and Fournier, there really is no one else opponents respect.

Our 6th man, is an inconsistent shooter, add the fact that we keep running plays for Ross to free himself up, but if the personnel he’s been given are 4 other players who opponents dont respect offensively, then its easy to guard those plays also.

Thats why clifford has to rely on rhythm and a system to put things in order, with a roster built for chaos.

I see steve more as a coach That was brought in that can stabilize a team, but to bring us over the top, we might need Tim Duncan who has a perfect record. :wink:


It's not about assigning blame. This roster isn't going to compete regardless of who the head coach is. I would trust Clifford to squeeze every drop out of a veteran roster of flawed pieces. I wouldn't trust him with actual talent. I also don't really trust him with youth development.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#125 » by fendilim » Wed Mar 4, 2020 11:06 am

Xatticus wrote:
fendilim wrote:
Knightro wrote:Steve Clifford is a solid, unspectacular basketball coach, but not even two years into his tenure I already find myself growing tired of him.

He's just a low ceiling coach. Perfectly capable of taking a 20 or 25 win team and improving them by 10-15 wins up to a 35-40 win team, but simply not capable of doing anything else beyond that.

The NBA has been aggressively trending towards pace and space for the last few years and Clifford prefers to play slow, play safe and play mistake free.

The Four Factors stuff that Clifford pushes so hard is fine. It definitely can turn a bad team into a middle of the road team. But Steve just has no answers outside of "we gotta play harder" when things aren't going well because he's so rigid with everything.

Substitutions are the same. Rotations are the same. Play calls are the same. Everything is structured. Everything is planned out in advance. While I totally see the value in consistency, there's just just no flexibility to pivot to something different when things don't go as planned.

You pretty much know what you're going to get with a Steve Clifford team and that's somewhere between 35-45 wins depending on player health/guys having career years.
this is true as a fact.

But i wouldnt put the blame totally on clifford. You also need the personnel to pace and space. We dont even have enough floor spacer to space the floor. Our starting 5, only has 1 legitimate player over 40% from three. Outside of Ross, Vuc and Fournier, there really is no one else opponents respect.

Our 6th man, is an inconsistent shooter, add the fact that we keep running plays for Ross to free himself up, but if the personnel he’s been given are 4 other players who opponents dont respect offensively, then its easy to guard those plays also.

Thats why clifford has to rely on rhythm and a system to put things in order, with a roster built for chaos.

I see steve more as a coach That was brought in that can stabilize a team, but to bring us over the top, we might need Tim Duncan who has a perfect record. :wink:


It's not about assigning blame. This roster isn't going to compete regardless of who the head coach is. I would trust Clifford to squeeze every drop out of a veteran roster of flawed pieces. I wouldn't trust him with actual talent. I also don't really trust him with youth development.
I guess it really depends on how you see the glass, half full or not.

Clifford sees playing youth in meaningful minutes. Perhaps you see playing the youth just for the sake of playing them?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#126 » by Skybox » Wed Mar 4, 2020 12:40 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:
fbeye343 wrote:Should Fultz be our PG of the future?

Should he be and can he be are the two questions for me right now. I do not believe based on what we've seen so far that he should be our point guard off the future. I'm just not particularly interested in committing longterm in 2020 to a point guard who is reluctant to shoot outside of the paint.

With that being said though, I'm not at the point where I'm ready to cut bait with him either. I'm willing to give him until next trade deadline to see if he can begin to regain his shot. I have to be honest with you tho, I'm just not that confident he will. I think that shoulder injury is still bothering him and it may have permanently affected his shot.

I'm basically at the point with Fultz where he hasn't shown so much so far that I wouldn't jump at the opportunity for a significant upgrade at the position this summer, but I wouldn't move on from him for the sake of moving on either. The dreams of him developing into a top 15 type scorer are gone for me && I'd be thrilled if he developed into an above-average type starter.


Pretty much same mindset for me, should he be and can he be seems to be 2 huge questions. I’m not going to shoe horn him into long term if I can get an upgrade but I’m not going after everything. I’m absolutely looking to resign super friendly deal like 4 year 45M and if he wants more then he can go. Magic absolutely have to find a PG somewhere because 32 year old DJ and bumass MCW isn’t it.


Agree. He's an asset that gives us options (like ALL of our players to varying degrees). Nobody untouchable. You don't have to give up on somebody to move them for somebody else.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#127 » by VFX » Wed Mar 4, 2020 3:23 pm

Xatticus wrote:
fendilim wrote:
Knightro wrote:Steve Clifford is a solid, unspectacular basketball coach, but not even two years into his tenure I already find myself growing tired of him.

He's just a low ceiling coach. Perfectly capable of taking a 20 or 25 win team and improving them by 10-15 wins up to a 35-40 win team, but simply not capable of doing anything else beyond that.

The NBA has been aggressively trending towards pace and space for the last few years and Clifford prefers to play slow, play safe and play mistake free.

The Four Factors stuff that Clifford pushes so hard is fine. It definitely can turn a bad team into a middle of the road team. But Steve just has no answers outside of "we gotta play harder" when things aren't going well because he's so rigid with everything.

Substitutions are the same. Rotations are the same. Play calls are the same. Everything is structured. Everything is planned out in advance. While I totally see the value in consistency, there's just just no flexibility to pivot to something different when things don't go as planned.

You pretty much know what you're going to get with a Steve Clifford team and that's somewhere between 35-45 wins depending on player health/guys having career years.
this is true as a fact.

But i wouldnt put the blame totally on clifford. You also need the personnel to pace and space. We dont even have enough floor spacer to space the floor. Our starting 5, only has 1 legitimate player over 40% from three. Outside of Ross, Vuc and Fournier, there really is no one else opponents respect.

Our 6th man, is an inconsistent shooter, add the fact that we keep running plays for Ross to free himself up, but if the personnel he’s been given are 4 other players who opponents dont respect offensively, then its easy to guard those plays also.

Thats why clifford has to rely on rhythm and a system to put things in order, with a roster built for chaos.

I see steve more as a coach That was brought in that can stabilize a team, but to bring us over the top, we might need Tim Duncan who has a perfect record. :wink:


It's not about assigning blame. This roster isn't going to compete regardless of who the head coach is. I would trust Clifford to squeeze every drop out of a veteran roster of flawed pieces. I wouldn't trust him with actual talent. I also don't really trust him with youth development.


Basically this.

Clifford hasn’t proven at all that he is capable of developing young players. He also doesn’t have the roster to really get creative with his rotations. He’s a good match with this FO only in the aspect that they focus on attributes, and styles of play, that nobody values anymore.

This is why I was Initially critical of Clifford and never understood the hire in the first place. He gives us stability, but what does that actually mean if you are aren’t/barely breaking .500 win seasons In another historically bad eastern conference. An extremely conservative front office AND coach doesn’t seem like the answer in today’s nba.

Most of this still lands on the FO’s choices, but like you said I don’t know how much I would entrust Clifford even if they landed a top 20 player in some unforeseen way.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#128 » by Blue_and_Whte » Wed Mar 4, 2020 4:27 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
fendilim wrote:this is true as a fact.

But i wouldnt put the blame totally on clifford. You also need the personnel to pace and space. We dont even have enough floor spacer to space the floor. Our starting 5, only has 1 legitimate player over 40% from three. Outside of Ross, Vuc and Fournier, there really is no one else opponents respect.

Our 6th man, is an inconsistent shooter, add the fact that we keep running plays for Ross to free himself up, but if the personnel he’s been given are 4 other players who opponents dont respect offensively, then its easy to guard those plays also.

Thats why clifford has to rely on rhythm and a system to put things in order, with a roster built for chaos.

I see steve more as a coach That was brought in that can stabilize a team, but to bring us over the top, we might need Tim Duncan who has a perfect record. :wink:


It's not about assigning blame. This roster isn't going to compete regardless of who the head coach is. I would trust Clifford to squeeze every drop out of a veteran roster of flawed pieces. I wouldn't trust him with actual talent. I also don't really trust him with youth development.


Basically this.

Clifford hasn’t proven at all that he is capable of developing young players. He also doesn’t have the roster to really get creative with his rotations. He’s a good match with this FO only in the aspect that they focus on attributes, and styles of play, that nobody values anymore.

This is why I was Initially critical of Clifford and never understood the hire in the first place. He gives us stability, but what does that actually mean if you are aren’t/barely breaking .500 win seasons In another historically bad eastern conference. An extremely conservative front office AND coach doesn’t seem like the answer in today’s nba.

Most of this still lands on the FO’s choices, but like you said I don’t know how much I would entrust Clifford even if they landed a top 20 player in some unforeseen way.
I don't disagree with your assessment of Clifford as a coach but this team desperately needed stability from a coaching perspective and that's what he provides.

I'll let the FO flesh out what their going to do with this roster but keep in mind this isnt a roster that they built. I dont mind the three core guys that people whine and cry about daily but at the same time I wouldn't be upset if they moved on from them as long as they pick a path. Ive always said that. I'm willing to let them build the team in their vision before fully judging them.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#129 » by VFX » Wed Mar 4, 2020 5:37 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
It's not about assigning blame. This roster isn't going to compete regardless of who the head coach is. I would trust Clifford to squeeze every drop out of a veteran roster of flawed pieces. I wouldn't trust him with actual talent. I also don't really trust him with youth development.


Basically this.

Clifford hasn’t proven at all that he is capable of developing young players. He also doesn’t have the roster to really get creative with his rotations. He’s a good match with this FO only in the aspect that they focus on attributes, and styles of play, that nobody values anymore.

This is why I was Initially critical of Clifford and never understood the hire in the first place. He gives us stability, but what does that actually mean if you are aren’t/barely breaking .500 win seasons In another historically bad eastern conference. An extremely conservative front office AND coach doesn’t seem like the answer in today’s nba.

Most of this still lands on the FO’s choices, but like you said I don’t know how much I would entrust Clifford even if they landed a top 20 player in some unforeseen way.
I don't disagree with your assessment of Clifford as a coach but this team desperately needed stability from a coaching perspective and that's what he provides.

I'll let the FO flesh out what their going to do with this roster but keep in mind this isnt a roster that they built. I dont mind the three core guys that people whine and cry about daily but at the same time I wouldn't be upset if they moved on from them as long as they pick a path. Ive always said that. I'm willing to let them build the team in their vision before fully judging them.


We definitely did need the coaching stability.

Have they not already made their own decisions worthy of full judgment? If/when they hand Fournier an extension they will have successfully retained Hennigan’s core, without landing a single trade of the original starters, sans EP. It doesn’t take 5 years to turn over a roster and pick a direction while continuing to trot out a bottom 5 ranked offense. No, this isn’t the roster they built. They should have their own roster at this point.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#130 » by pepe1991 » Wed Mar 4, 2020 6:59 pm

Head coaches don't develop young players but development coaches.
Head coach is in game and rotation menager and his job is to win games. NBA media and fans have almost Schizofrenic obession with young players and tend to care more about who is next star rather who are current ones. In mean time league belongs to players in their late 20s and 30s
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#131 » by Blue_and_Whte » Wed Mar 4, 2020 10:03 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Basically this.

Clifford hasn’t proven at all that he is capable of developing young players. He also doesn’t have the roster to really get creative with his rotations. He’s a good match with this FO only in the aspect that they focus on attributes, and styles of play, that nobody values anymore.

This is why I was Initially critical of Clifford and never understood the hire in the first place. He gives us stability, but what does that actually mean if you are aren’t/barely breaking .500 win seasons In another historically bad eastern conference. An extremely conservative front office AND coach doesn’t seem like the answer in today’s nba.

Most of this still lands on the FO’s choices, but like you said I don’t know how much I would entrust Clifford even if they landed a top 20 player in some unforeseen way.
I don't disagree with your assessment of Clifford as a coach but this team desperately needed stability from a coaching perspective and that's what he provides.

I'll let the FO flesh out what their going to do with this roster but keep in mind this isnt a roster that they built. I dont mind the three core guys that people whine and cry about daily but at the same time I wouldn't be upset if they moved on from them as long as they pick a path. Ive always said that. I'm willing to let them build the team in their vision before fully judging them.


We definitely did need the coaching stability.

Have they not already made their own decisions worthy of full judgment? If/when they hand Fournier an extension they will have successfully retained Hennigan’s core, without landing a single trade of the original starters, sans EP. It doesn’t take 5 years to turn over a roster and pick a direction while continuing to trot out a bottom 5 ranked offense. No, this isn’t the roster they built. They should have their own roster at this point.
They've done some things that people are obviously free to judge but imo thats not the finished product.I do know that Fournier and Vooch aren't bad players regardless how people try to spin it, and the way I've understood it keeping good players on tradeable contracts, like they did with AG, to avoid losing them for nothing isn't bad move imo.

Yes, a GM can just trade a bunch of players turning the roster over, that doesn't appear to be difficult to do, especially if they don't care about getting value back, but I doubt they would do that to appease a few fans who just want to see a different player. I would assume they're going to try an get a good return on their investments vs moving someone just to move them. I also believe, imo, that they would avoid tanking after just winning the Southeast division title and getting back to the PO's after 7 years, not to mention teams aren't trying to race to the bottom anymore. I understand your take but I'm pretty sure that just because they don't show their cards doesn't mean they don't know this roster is flawed. I highly doubt we know anything they don't already know so I'm going to wait for the finished product.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#132 » by Xatticus » Wed Mar 4, 2020 10:10 pm

fendilim wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
fendilim wrote:this is true as a fact.

But i wouldnt put the blame totally on clifford. You also need the personnel to pace and space. We dont even have enough floor spacer to space the floor. Our starting 5, only has 1 legitimate player over 40% from three. Outside of Ross, Vuc and Fournier, there really is no one else opponents respect.

Our 6th man, is an inconsistent shooter, add the fact that we keep running plays for Ross to free himself up, but if the personnel he’s been given are 4 other players who opponents dont respect offensively, then its easy to guard those plays also.

Thats why clifford has to rely on rhythm and a system to put things in order, with a roster built for chaos.

I see steve more as a coach That was brought in that can stabilize a team, but to bring us over the top, we might need Tim Duncan who has a perfect record. :wink:


It's not about assigning blame. This roster isn't going to compete regardless of who the head coach is. I would trust Clifford to squeeze every drop out of a veteran roster of flawed pieces. I wouldn't trust him with actual talent. I also don't really trust him with youth development.
I guess it really depends on how you see the glass, half full or not.

Clifford sees playing youth in meaningful minutes. Perhaps you see playing the youth just for the sake of playing them?


Clifford has his hierarchical preferences for veterans, but this isn't simply about playing time. The more concerning aspect of this regards roles. We simply aren't developing our young players at the offensive end. We tell them to set a screen or to hide in a corner. I'm not calling for high usage for them, but they aren't going to improve at reading the floor and making decisions if they aren't tasked with it. We have essentially used the draft to bring in guys to do all of the dirty work so that we can cater to and overpay for players that have failed to improve our offense for the last umpteen seasons.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#133 » by VFX » Wed Mar 4, 2020 10:17 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Head coaches don't develop young players but development coaches.
Head coach is in game and rotation menager and his job is to win games. NBA media and fans have almost Schizofrenic obession with young players and tend to care more about who is next star rather who are current ones. In mean time league belongs to players in their late 20s and 30s


Which matters to Orlando because we don’t have current ones.

Yes, development coaches are important. However, they aren’t the ones actually giving young players the opportunity. Practice and drills aren’t equivalent to in game experience.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#134 » by Blue_and_Whte » Wed Mar 4, 2020 10:18 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Head coaches don't develop young players but development coaches.
Head coach is in game and rotation menager and his job is to win games. NBA media and fans have almost Schizofrenic obession with young players and tend to care more about who is next star rather who are current ones. In mean time league belongs to players in their late 20s and 30s
This is spot on. players primarily develop In the off-season and with developmental coaches during the season.

I think some improvement happens organically, but one of the last things a head coach focuses on during the season is developing players.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#135 » by cedric76 » Wed Mar 4, 2020 10:42 pm

Our guys have been and will keep improving each summer
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#136 » by Bensational » Wed Mar 4, 2020 10:55 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:
fbeye343 wrote:Should Fultz be our PG of the future?

Should he be and can he be are the two questions for me right now. I do not believe based on what we've seen so far that he should be our point guard off the future. I'm just not particularly interested in committing longterm in 2020 to a point guard who is reluctant to shoot outside of the paint.

With that being said though, I'm not at the point where I'm ready to cut bait with him either. I'm willing to give him until next trade deadline to see if he can begin to regain his shot. I have to be honest with you tho, I'm just not that confident he will. I think that shoulder injury is still bothering him and it may have permanently affected his shot.

I'm basically at the point with Fultz where he hasn't shown so much so far that I wouldn't jump at the opportunity for a significant upgrade at the position this summer, but I wouldn't move on from him for the sake of moving on either. The dreams of him developing into a top 15 type scorer are gone for me && I'd be thrilled if he developed into an above-average type starter.


Pretty much same mindset for me, should he be and can he be seems to be 2 huge questions. I’m not going to shoe horn him into long term if I can get an upgrade but I’m not going after everything. I’m absolutely looking to resign super friendly deal like 4 year 45M and if he wants more then he can go. Magic absolutely have to find a PG somewhere because 32 year old DJ and bumass MCW isn’t it.


At this point I don't see many alternatives who are worth the cost of the upgrade, over waiting for Fultz at least one more season.

What NEEDS to change between now and then is how much we ask him to take over the offense and become our lead scorer (or one of). Otherwise it doesn't matter who we bring in if they're just going to play the same role our PGs have for years.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#137 » by pepe1991 » Thu Mar 5, 2020 12:12 am

Bensational wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:Should he be and can he be are the two questions for me right now. I do not believe based on what we've seen so far that he should be our point guard off the future. I'm just not particularly interested in committing longterm in 2020 to a point guard who is reluctant to shoot outside of the paint.

With that being said though, I'm not at the point where I'm ready to cut bait with him either. I'm willing to give him until next trade deadline to see if he can begin to regain his shot. I have to be honest with you tho, I'm just not that confident he will. I think that shoulder injury is still bothering him and it may have permanently affected his shot.

I'm basically at the point with Fultz where he hasn't shown so much so far that I wouldn't jump at the opportunity for a significant upgrade at the position this summer, but I wouldn't move on from him for the sake of moving on either. The dreams of him developing into a top 15 type scorer are gone for me && I'd be thrilled if he developed into an above-average type starter.


Pretty much same mindset for me, should he be and can he be seems to be 2 huge questions. I’m not going to shoe horn him into long term if I can get an upgrade but I’m not going after everything. I’m absolutely looking to resign super friendly deal like 4 year 45M and if he wants more then he can go. Magic absolutely have to find a PG somewhere because 32 year old DJ and bumass MCW isn’t it.


At this point I don't see many alternatives who are worth the cost of the upgrade, over waiting for Fultz at least one more season.

What NEEDS to change between now and then is how much we ask him to take over the offense and become our lead scorer (or one of). Otherwise it doesn't matter who we bring in if they're just going to play the same role our PGs have for years.


With DJ as good as gone this front office can't fall once again in Payton trap where they refused to get anybody who could eventually take a job away from him just to "develop" him, and guy never developed anything because he got too comfortable being starter just because he is young and there is nobody better around to push him.

I would not mind Schroder but i don't see any logical trade between OKC and us. Schroder is having elite season as 6thh man and can easly be used off bench or be part time starter/stop gap PG if Fultz still can't shoot pass 10 feet next year.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#138 » by PrimeThyme » Thu Mar 5, 2020 2:17 am

pepe1991 wrote:With DJ as good as gone this front office can't fall once again in Payton trap where they refused to get anybody who could eventually take a job away from him just to "develop" him, and guy never developed anything because he got too comfortable being starter just because he is young and there is nobody better around to push him.

I would not mind Schroder but i don't see any logical trade between OKC and us. Schroder is having elite season as 6thh man and can easly be used off bench or be part time starter/stop gap PG if Fultz still can't shoot pass 10 feet next year.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#139 » by VFX » Thu Mar 5, 2020 3:49 am

PrimeThyme wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:With DJ as good as gone this front office can't fall once again in Payton trap where they refused to get anybody who could eventually take a job away from him just to "develop" him, and guy never developed anything because he got too comfortable being starter just because he is young and there is nobody better around to push him.

I would not mind Schroder but i don't see any logical trade between OKC and us. Schroder is having elite season as 6thh man and can easly be used off bench or be part time starter/stop gap PG if Fultz still can't shoot pass 10 feet next year.

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Time for Conley to retire after that.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#140 » by MagicStarwipe » Thu Mar 5, 2020 6:28 am

PrimeThyme wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:With DJ as good as gone this front office can't fall once again in Payton trap where they refused to get anybody who could eventually take a job away from him just to "develop" him, and guy never developed anything because he got too comfortable being starter just because he is young and there is nobody better around to push him.

I would not mind Schroder but i don't see any logical trade between OKC and us. Schroder is having elite season as 6thh man and can easly be used off bench or be part time starter/stop gap PG if Fultz still can't shoot pass 10 feet next year.

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Fixed that for you 8-)
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