Orlando Magic Official Training Camp Thread - 9/27 to 10/9

[basketballRob]

Pepe only talks when he can pull out stats to fuel an argument that fit his narrative. He wanted to take Holmgren in the draft, that got his season taken out on a low contact play, in a non league game. (which was most people's #1 concern going into the draft, how durable he would be with his frame) I bet you wouldn't have heard a peep from him about it, if we took him and lost an entire season. But he will sit here and fight tooth and nail over JI being injured and what a waste of a contract it was. Hypocrite much?

Like 380 is a good 3-pt shooter. Bamba averaged 380 last season but isn't a good shooter.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[TheChaser]

So…back to the subject at hand, any training camp news?

[pepe1991]

Pepe only talks when he can pull out stats to fuel an argument that fit his narrative. He wanted to take Holmgren in the draft, that got his season taken out on a low contact play, in a non league game. (which was most people's #1 concern going into the draft, how durable he would be with his frame) I bet you wouldn't have heard a peep from him about it, if we took him and lost an entire season. But he will sit here and fight tooth and nail over JI being injured and what a waste of a contract it was. Hypocrite much?

Like 380 is a good 3-pt shooter. Bamba averaged 380 last season but isn't a good shooter.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

What is 380 three point shooter?

Mo Bamba is career 35,1% three point shooter.

[RedStang1969]

Pepe only talks when he can pull out stats to fuel an argument that fit his narrative. He wanted to take Holmgren in the draft, that got his season taken out on a low contact play, in a non league game. (which was most people's #1 concern going into the draft, how durable he would be with his frame) I bet you wouldn't have heard a peep from him about it, if we took him and lost an entire season. But he will sit here and fight tooth and nail over JI being injured and what a waste of a contract it was. Hypocrite much?

Like 380 is a good 3-pt shooter. Bamba averaged 380 last season but isn't a good shooter.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

What is 380 three point shooter?

Mo Bamba is career 35,1% three point shooter.

What is 35,1%??? Did you mean 35.1 %?

[drsd]

Pepe only talks when he can pull out stats to fuel an argument that fit his narrative. He wanted to take Holmgren in the draft, that got his season taken out on a low contact play, in a non league game. (which was most people's #1 concern going into the draft, how durable he would be with his frame) I bet you wouldn't have heard a peep from him about it, if we took him and lost an entire season. But he will sit here and fight tooth and nail over JI being injured and what a waste of a contract it was. Hypocrite much?

Like 380 is a good 3-pt shooter. Bamba averaged 380 last season but isn't a good shooter.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

What is 380 three point shooter?

Mo Bamba is career 35,1% three point shooter.

Last year Bamba shot 38.1% with the three ball. And he had an eFG% of 56.6%. Bamba's problems on offense are that he is horrible at setting picks and moving off of the ball. He is also a terrible rebounder and not a good team defender.

The thing is that most of his deficiencies are correctable by coaching. It is about playing in position and playing by coach's rules. This is how Mr. Redick went from terrible to average on defense. And Bamba can (and hopefully will) be an above average rebounder with his new upper body strength.

There is good reason to believe that Bamba will be a net-positive player this year.


..

[AaronB]

Like 380 is a good 3-pt shooter. Bamba averaged 380 last season but isn't a good shooter.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

What is 380 three point shooter?

Mo Bamba is career 35,1% three point shooter.

What is 35,1%??? Did you mean 35.1 %?

Europeans use a comma where Americans use a decimal point

Amerians are also familiar with saying a person shooting 38% is a 380 shooter, mainly from a baseball culture.

PeePee can be excused for not knowing this.

[jonbob17]

During 2021-22 season, Orlando Magic spent $54 300 000 on Harris, Jonathan Isaac and Markelle Fultz. That was 42% of cap space tied into 0 games from isaac, 18 games from Fultz and 60 games from Harris.

For 2022-23 Orlando Magic has $47 000 000 tied into same 3 players. Not a single one has any timetable of return from injury.

Why are obsessed with the salaries and money spent in a league that has a cap minimum?
That money has to be spent anyway, what else could the Magic spend that money on?

Floor minimum last year was $101M.
Orlando commited $127M.
The minimum team salary, which is set at 90% of the salary cap, is $111.290 million for the 2022-23 season. Magic commited $123M.


So stop pretending that they were in some danger of not hitting salary floor.

Matter of fact Magic were over salary cap in both years.
Salary for 2021-22 was $112M. For 2022-23 is slightly below $123M.


I'm NOT obsessed with money. But league has salary cap and you have to operate under it. Commiting 50% of cap in players that DON'T PLAY is issue. If you can't wrap your head around so obvious facts, it's really hard to have serious conversation about topic.

There is clear opportunity cost thing. You are robbing yourself from having potetnial alternatives if your players are always hurt.
1) they can't play so they are hurting on court product
2) they can't play so they are not assets in trades
3) they take spots & money from ability to sign better / or at least more aveliable alternatives

Even if player A is much better than player B, it means very little if he plays 30% ( or Isaac's case 0%) of time than average player who plays +70% time.

The Magic were in the rebuild when they signed Fultz and Isaac, so it really doesn't matter that they spent it. Frankly that both players missed so much time, only helped the teams long term fortune.. You take away the 34M they are well below the minimum. Young players with upside are not readily available in this league, as they are nearly always have rookie deals extended.

$34M is less that 50% of cap.

Both contracts are fine, probably better than fine with how the Magic are able to get out of them.

A bad contract in 2022 looks like Westbrook and the $47M he is owed this year and in past, and the negative value is one first round draft pick.

If I had to bet, I'd say the Magic would get back positive returns for both guys, based on upside and rebuilding teams taking a roll on the dice on either of them...you know...exactly the way the Magic did. These kind of gambles are the responsible way for rebuilding teams to spend money.

[drsd]

Europeans use a comma where Americans use a decimal point.

I am European and use a decimal point. (( The UK left the EU, we did not leave Europe ))



But actually almost all non-anglophone countries use a comma, where the anglophone countries use the decimal point. It's not just French/German/Polish, etc.

[pepe1991]

Why are obsessed with the salaries and money spent in a league that has a cap minimum?
That money has to be spent anyway, what else could the Magic spend that money on?

Floor minimum last year was $101M.
Orlando commited $127M.
The minimum team salary, which is set at 90% of the salary cap, is $111.290 million for the 2022-23 season. Magic commited $123M.


So stop pretending that they were in some danger of not hitting salary floor.

Matter of fact Magic were over salary cap in both years.
Salary for 2021-22 was $112M. For 2022-23 is slightly below $123M.


I'm NOT obsessed with money. But league has salary cap and you have to operate under it. Commiting 50% of cap in players that DON'T PLAY is issue. If you can't wrap your head around so obvious facts, it's really hard to have serious conversation about topic.

There is clear opportunity cost thing. You are robbing yourself from having potetnial alternatives if your players are always hurt.
1) they can't play so they are hurting on court product
2) they can't play so they are not assets in trades
3) they take spots & money from ability to sign better / or at least more aveliable alternatives

Even if player A is much better than player B, it means very little if he plays 30% ( or Isaac's case 0%) of time than average player who plays +70% time.

The Magic were in the rebuild when they signed Fultz and Isaac, so it really doesn't matter that they spent it. Frankly that both players missed so much time, only helped the teams long term fortune.. You take away the 34M they are well below the minimum. Young players with upside are not readily available in this league, as they are nearly always have rookie deals extended.

$34M is less that 50% of cap.

Both contracts are fine, probably better than fine with how the Magic are able to get out of them.

A bad contract in 2022 looks like Westbrook and the $47M he is owed this year and in past, and the negative value is one first round draft pick.

If I had to bet, I'd say the Magic would get back positive returns for both guys, based on upside and rebuilding teams taking a roll on the dice on either of them...you know...exactly the way the Magic did. These kind of gambles are the responsible way for rebuilding teams to spend money.

Oh boy...

You, and few others either lie and are proud of lying, or are simply clueless about timeline so you just make up stuff to fit

2019-20 :
August 8th, 2020- Jonathan Isaac torns ACL
August 18th2020- Magic enter playoffs
August 29th, 2020- Magic are eliminated

December 21st, 2020 Orlando resigns Isaac who is already ruled out for a season 2020-21 without any hope of him outplaying his potential contract ( or even qualifing offer , or any fear that some fools would burn $100M on him in offseason)

January 7th 2021. Markelle Fultz torns his ACL after 8 games where his eFG was epic 41% ( league's average 52%).

March 2021, Gordon demands trade ( to front office)
Late March, 2021, Gordon demands trade in public
March 24th, 2021 trades start to happen, Magic enter rebuild

The Magic were in the rebuild when they signed Fultz and Isaac, so it really doesn't matter that they spent it.

So as you can see, your opening point is flat out fale/ lie/ not true / you imaginated it/ mendela efect ( call it however you want, i'll call it what it is -a lie)

You take away the 34M they are well below the minimum

Or..sign just about anybody who can actually play basketball?

Both contracts are fine, probably better than fine with how the Magic are able to get out of them.

Nothing says "fine" more than 40% of cap space in 2 years (2020-21 & 2022-23) combining for 26 games and has no timeframe of return for 2022-23

If I had to bet, I'd say the Magic would get back positive returns for both guys, based on upside and rebuilding teams taking a roll on the dice on either of them...you know...exactly the way the Magic did. These kind of gambles are the responsible way for rebuilding teams to spend money

Well Magic wasted 2 picks on them already, one turned into Maxey, who is way better than Fultz will ever be and other was used ( on Isaac ) for 6th overall pick... teams who drafted later went home with Adebayo, Mitchell, John Collins, Jarret Allen, OG.... Not to steep. 3 allstars in first round drafted after, 2 drafted after, in lottery. Sounds like very high missed opportunity.

Let's face it, if Orlando in 2020 signed Noel & Schroder instad of them (hypoteticlly) would anyboyd , on court, notice any difference? Instad of marginally more talented players they would get players who actually play basketball on regular bases.
This is why i hammer home notion that they are "good" contracts or assets.

You don't have asset ( nor player) if he is never aveliable to play. It's clear that their inability to be aveliable is harming team for years now. Those guys in 4 years played 33 games together.

[AaronB]

Europeans use a comma where Americans use a decimal point.

I am European and use a decimal point. (( The UK left the EU, we did not leave Europe ))



But actually almost all non-anglophone countries use a comma, where the anglophone countries use the decimal point. It's not just French/German/Polish, etc.

Now that is interesting. I only lived in England for a year, and none of my friends would call themselves European, only British.

Then I looked it up and found this data:

[jonbob17]

Floor minimum last year was $101M.
Orlando commited $127M.
The minimum team salary, which is set at 90% of the salary cap, is $111.290 million for the 2022-23 season. Magic commited $123M.


So stop pretending that they were in some danger of not hitting salary floor.

Matter of fact Magic were over salary cap in both years.
Salary for 2021-22 was $112M. For 2022-23 is slightly below $123M.


I'm NOT obsessed with money. But league has salary cap and you have to operate under it. Commiting 50% of cap in players that DON'T PLAY is issue. If you can't wrap your head around so obvious facts, it's really hard to have serious conversation about topic.

There is clear opportunity cost thing. You are robbing yourself from having potetnial alternatives if your players are always hurt.
1) they can't play so they are hurting on court product
2) they can't play so they are not assets in trades
3) they take spots & money from ability to sign better / or at least more aveliable alternatives

Even if player A is much better than player B, it means very little if he plays 30% ( or Isaac's case 0%) of time than average player who plays +70% time.

The Magic were in the rebuild when they signed Fultz and Isaac, so it really doesn't matter that they spent it. Frankly that both players missed so much time, only helped the teams long term fortune.. You take away the 34M they are well below the minimum. Young players with upside are not readily available in this league, as they are nearly always have rookie deals extended.

$34M is less that 50% of cap.

Both contracts are fine, probably better than fine with how the Magic are able to get out of them.

A bad contract in 2022 looks like Westbrook and the $47M he is owed this year and in past, and the negative value is one first round draft pick.

If I had to bet, I'd say the Magic would get back positive returns for both guys, based on upside and rebuilding teams taking a roll on the dice on either of them...you know...exactly the way the Magic did. These kind of gambles are the responsible way for rebuilding teams to spend money.

Oh boy...

You, and few others either lie and are proud of lying, or are simply clueless about timeline so you just make up stuff to fit

2019-20 :
August 8th, 2020- Jonathan Isaac torns ACL
August 18th2020- Magic enter playoffs
August 29th, 2020- Magic are eliminated

December 21st, 2020 Orlando resigns Isaac who is already ruled out for a season 2020-21 without any hope of him outplaying his potential contract ( or even qualifing offer , or any fear that some fools would burn $100M on him in offseason)

January 7th 2021. Markelle Fultz torns his ACL after 8 games where his eFG was epic 41% ( league's average 52%).

March 2021, Gordon demands trade ( to front office)
Late March, 2021, Gordon demands trade in public
March 24th, 2021 trades start to happen, Magic enter rebuild

The Magic were in the rebuild when they signed Fultz and Isaac, so it really doesn't matter that they spent it.

So as you can see, your opening point is flat out fale/ lie/ not true / you imaginated it/ mendela efect ( call it however you want, i'll call it what it is -a lie)

You take away the 34M they are well below the minimum

Or..sign just about anybody who can actually play basketball?

Both contracts are fine, probably better than fine with how the Magic are able to get out of them.

Nothing says "fine" more than 40% of cap space in 2 years (2020-21 & 2022-23) combining for 26 games and has no timeframe of return for 2022-23

If I had to bet, I'd say the Magic would get back positive returns for both guys, based on upside and rebuilding teams taking a roll on the dice on either of them...you know...exactly the way the Magic did. These kind of gambles are the responsible way for rebuilding teams to spend money

Well Magic wasted 2 picks on them already, one turned into Maxey, who is way better than Fultz will ever be and other was used ( on Isaac ) for 6th overall pick... teams who drafted later went home with Adebayo, Mitchell, John Collins, Jarret Allen, OG.... Not to steep. 3 allstars in first round drafted after, 2 drafted after, in lottery. Sounds like very high missed opportunity.

Let's face it, if Orlando in 2020 signed Noel & Schroder instad of them (hypoteticlly) would anyboyd , on court, notice any difference? Instad of marginally more talented players they would get players who actually play basketball on regular bases.
This is why i hammer home notion that they are "good" contracts or assets.

You don't have asset ( nor player) if he is never aveliable to play. It's clear that their inability to be aveliable is harming team for years now. Those guys in 4 years played 33 games together.

You really think the Magic decided to rebuild at the deadline? The writing was on the wall during the offseason. They waited to the deadline to maximize value....like they try and do every year with every vet...Sometimes more successfully than others.

I suppose it is possible if the Magic exceeded expectations with Vuc and crew maybe they would have dragged out the inevitable. But what are the odds of that happening.

Again $34M a year isn't 40% of the cap either. It was 30% in 2021 and 27% in 2023.

Just because the 76ers picked Maxey doesn't mean we would have. Almost certainly wouldn't have after drafting Cole Anthony.

Take a breath, we might have the best cap sheet in the NBA when looked at for flexibility. The main problem is and has been we haven't had anywhere to spend it, and we shouldn't have since we are again in rebuild. And virtually nobody has been available as a free agent the last couple years...especially when thinking of difference makers that would have come here.

[Optimus_Steel]

So are they practicing today?

[Knightro]

So are they practicing today?

Yep.

Read on Twitter

[PrimeThyme]

I just don’t know why people even engage Pepe in Isaac debates. I’m not going to pile on bc I do think he brings some value to the board, but his mind has been made up on Isaac since 2017.

Even when he was healthy he never saw the value Isaac brought to the court. It’s not worth debating with him.

[JF5]

Your ability to make up stuff is pretty damn amazing.

I never make things up. I'll cite 3-4 references of what I'm talking about, usually if I'm trying to make an argument.

If I'm incorrect then I'll admit it up front or apologize...

But for you on the other hand if you don't get your way in arguments. You twist a narrative so much or outright lie to or omit or deny information that it's absolutely criminal or borderline nutty. It's quite hilarious most times.

This is salary of Schroder and Fultz over years. Can you tell who is who?





In not so shocking twist, Fultz, who hardly plays basketball, alraedy earns more money per single season payed than Schroder in his entire career.

I have to school you on this as well with information, because its apparent you're purposely omitting information once again or not really thinking about it and just typing (Shocker)

Schroeder resigned a long term contract in October 26th 2016, where in the prior year he average 11 points 4.6 assist and 2.6 rebounds per game on 20 Minutes Per Game COMING OFF THE BENCH. So he didn't have leverage to sign a much bigger contract. Similar to how Jonathan Issac or Stephen Curry when they signed their contracts.

Also, The cap for the NBA in general has creeped up in totality naturally from 2016 to 2020 where Fultz signed his extension on December 21st 2020. With inflation + the heightened Cap. Fultz is making less percentage wise against the cap for the Magic, compared to Dennis Schroeder.

On top of that there are two issues which makes you look ridiculous

1. If we're trying to purge a young talent in Dennis Schroeder from another team. You have to naturally offer a crap ton more money to have that young player sign to your team. So, if the Magic try to sign a young RESTRICTED FREE AGENT Dennis Schroder we would have to offer 5-7 more million a year to where the Hawks might not feel comfortable in resigning him.

So him signing a 15 Million dollar a year contract with us turns into at least 20-23 million a year.

2. We saw an Un-Restricted Free-agent in his prime Dennis Schroeder reject a 4 Year, 84 Million dollar contract in 2021 from a Big Market contending team with the Lakers that has LeBron James on them. I could imagine if the Lakers, Magic, and another belligerent were fighting over his services his Baseline would be at least 25+ Million a year.

So I'm not making up the fact that the Magic would potentially pay him 25-30 per year given what he's rejected before.

And again, in no so shocking twist, Schroder over his career has been superior player in just about every single category.

They're both Good players in their current iteration (IMO as it might change in this upcoming season). As of now they're both between that 25-30 best PG's in the league.

So to you it's okey to resign just about every scrub team puts hands on because " Magic can't get anybody in free agency".
Well for damn sure they will never even put themselfs in position to get anybody if they have no cap space in first place.

Again, you absolutely have blinding hate for Fultz so I can't take this seriously.

I can give you Numbers that he was in the 98th percentile at finishing at the rim, and was in the 90th + percentile in the league at giving his teammates easiest possible shots in the last 18 games he played in 21-22 and you'd still think he's garbage when its clear the stats say something else (though it is segmented obviously).

And as far as Biyombo & Green contracts go, they were awful. But they at least played basketball.

So you're in the camp of giving bloated contracts to role players in their prime? For a guy who screams about cap flexibility being a problems that's a very stupid way to destroy that while having to get rid of assets to get off those contracts.

Thank God you're not a GM, we'd essentially be the New York Knicks

During 2021-22 season, Orlando Magic spent $54 300 000 on Harris, Jonathan Isaac and Markelle Fultz. That was 42% of cap space tied into 0 games from isaac, 18 games from Fultz and 60 games from Harris.

For 2022-23 Orlando Magic has $47 000 000 tied into same 3 players. Not a single one has any timetable of return from injury.

Why the hell are you adding Gary Harris here. He actually played the majority of games in 2021-2022...

Also, a poster CLEARLY told you in a reply that the Cap between Fultz and Issac is between 27-33 percent of the cap from last year and this season.

Lol, the Magic were desperate at signing the last 2 Off-Seasons so they could hit the cap floor.

Plus, Fultz fractured his toe so he'll clearly be back at least by early november and Issac is most likely in the same position. The only person whose return is questionable at this point is Harris.

I don't know what you're trying to argue here.

[basketballRob]

Pepe only talks when he can pull out stats to fuel an argument that fit his narrative. He wanted to take Holmgren in the draft, that got his season taken out on a low contact play, in a non league game. (which was most people's #1 concern going into the draft, how durable he would be with his frame) I bet you wouldn't have heard a peep from him about it, if we took him and lost an entire season. But he will sit here and fight tooth and nail over JI being injured and what a waste of a contract it was. Hypocrite much?

Like 380 is a good 3-pt shooter. Bamba averaged 380 last season but isn't a good shooter.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

What is 380 three point shooter?

Mo Bamba is career 35,1% three point shooter.

He was good last season, that isn't hard to say.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[pepe1991]

I just don’t know why people even engage Pepe in Isaac debates. I’m not going to pile on bc I do think he brings some value to the board, but his mind has been made up on Isaac since 2017.

Even when he was healthy he never saw the value Isaac brought to the court. It’s not worth debating with him.

Why are Isaac debates a thing ?

January first, 2020. Jonathan Isaac has knee injury. Recovery time 4-8 weeks.
March 10th, 2020, season is suspended due Cov19, Isaac already failed to recover at time.

Season continues in August, 8 months after injury, he is still on min restrictions.
He plays 16 min in game 1. After 14 min of game two he has ACL tear.

From January of 2020, to present day, October of 2022, Jonathan Isaac played 31 min of basketball, and has no timetable of return.

So again, what's there to even talk about him?

That paying player that is disabled to play is waste of money ? How is this even a thing? Magic got same production of Mozgov and Isaac over last 2 years. One wasn't even in continent of America and has been retired for two years. Other is writing books and does just about everything but play basketball.

Isaac as basketball player doesn't exist anywhere but in Magic salary books. Been that way for 3 years now.

Again, 31 min of basketball since January first, 2020. How much time passed by? Trump was president for whole another year , Stern was alive, Kobe was alive, Kemba Walker was allstar starter, covid vaccine didn't exist.

So this is far cry from some random forum alleged hater moaning about some guy who has serious injury and is missing timeline of return for couple of weeks. This is ubnormal, unprecedented situation where same player has been basically semi -retired for half of his nba career, yet his forum fans pretend he is second comming of Pippen and push notion of him being "starter", "elite", "great defender", using games that were played 3 years ago to project future.

How this forum views i don't know, Zach collins? Injury prone failed potential, like any normal person would. Well... that injury prone guy happend to play 50 games more than guy who they project as "starter" . Double standards much?

In same period, 5 years, Klay Thompson menaged to tear ACL, had catastrophic achilie taer, recover, win championship and stil start 32 games in regular season and 22 games in playoffs.
So not only that we know that Isaac's recovery is going very poorly, we have player who had same injury as him, followed by even worst injury than Isaac had AND STILL menaged to recover faster.

It's not very hard to tune in braincells and figure there is something very wrong with isaac's body and even if he recovers , he won't last long.

[cedric76]

Can we stop spamming this thread, could we stay on topic please

[drsd]

Can we stop spamming this thread, could we stay on topic please

Second cancelled day of camp will do that.


..

[ORLMagicGirl15]

Can we stop spamming this thread, could we stay on topic please

Second cancelled day of camp will do that.


..

But they had camp yesterday and people were still arguing about non-sense.

Not only that but they bring this argument into EVERY thread we had.