What's next?

[anothermagicfan]

The Toronto board hates FVV.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

FVVs numbers for the amount of minutes he plays are really not that impressive. Given his age and the money he'll want I don't think he's the answer for us.

[anothermagicfan]

I like Fultz.
At this point, Cole is still to inconsistent.

For me Fultz is the clear long-term starting PG. This then leads to either Suggs or Anthony being shipped of. I am of a 50/50 mind in that. It is great to have a backup PG that can pour in points (Anthony), but Suggs capacity to e a backup for both guard slots means he could develop into an NBA elite 6th man.

Coin flip for me between the two for the primary 6th man. And the other's got to go.

Cole/2023 pick
Suggs/2023 pick

For me the question is which of these is a better trade package to get a high-volume 3-ball shooter to start at the SG slot. Through in Okeke to whichever gets a deal done.

..

I agree with you on this and your opinion that our shooting guard spot is the biggest weakness.

I am quite convinced that Fultz and suggs are the 2 guys to keep and move forward with. The idea of Cole starting is the worst. I love reading on here something like "is fultz really the guy you want to pair with Paulo and Franz?" I feel like you could answer that with question with another question- is Cole the guy you want to pair with Paulo or Franz? Cause it's a pretty easy thought process. Cole is more concerned about himself scoring. He's more interested in himself taking a shot than giving the ball to anyone else.

So to the point of fixing the 2 guard slot I'd also add to Garry Harris to the trade package to get our guy.

Cole/Harris/2023 pick

The chances of landing top 2 for vic or scoot aren't great. I'm more interested in getting miller and him and Franz being the 2/3. I also like jett Howard with the second pick. He's more in the 8-15 range on a lot of mocks. A 6'8" shooting guard that hits 3s at a decent percentage. Shooting and length. Sounds like what we could use here.

And no to trading okeke

[VFX]

What do you think he's going to use to justify it?

If he starts at point guard next season, then he'll go into the summer of 2024 as a multi-season "entrenched" starting point guard, heading into his physical prime at age 26.

Plus there's a good chance with Paolo and Franz and Suggs all continuing to get better + Isaac health + lotto picks + possible free agent signings that the Magic don't start 5-20 next year and end up with a winning record. This could happen in spite of Fultz's limitations IMO.

He ain't taking a pay cut from the Magic to remain the starting PG.

Now he might end up getting less than that if they play hard ball with him and let him walk, but he and his agent are going to seek a raise and feel completely justified in doing so.

Just because they feel justified doesn't mean he'll warrent it on the market.

I don't see a player who was elite in finishing at the rim but has regressed in percentage in finishing to below avg, a poor FT rate even though he attacks the rim more than the average, and non existent 3 pt shoot getting 20 mil on the market

You’d be surprised.

The media and casuals love Fultz.

The FO could get cute and decide to pay him more than his current already overpriced deal if they fail to find a real replacement in the meantime.

[Knightro]

There is a history of the magic playing winning basketball with Fultz on the floor. See a few years ago he was the starting point guard and made the playoffs. I will give Cole credit that he has shown some improvements this year but remember last season when we were actively tanking. Intentionally losing. You know a key part of that was by starting Cole in all 65 games he played. Now how about this season. Thow out the first 20 games and that will bring to December 7 and the start of a 7 game win streak and I think 9 out of 10 games won. That December 7 game was fultz's 5th game back. Also during that stretch Carter and Harris were still out.

Saying fultz doesn't lead to winning basketball is just ridiculous. Now he hasn't shown himself to lead to dominating or anything but he is a big part of the winning here.

Fultz's lone season as the starting point guard the Magic went 33-40 and got blasted in the first round in an incredibly weak Eastern Conference.

[anothermagicfan]

There is a history of the magic playing winning basketball with Fultz on the floor. See a few years ago he was the starting point guard and made the playoffs. I will give Cole credit that he has shown some improvements this year but remember last season when we were actively tanking. Intentionally losing. You know a key part of that was by starting Cole in all 65 games he played. Now how about this season. Thow out the first 20 games and that will bring to December 7 and the start of a 7 game win streak and I think 9 out of 10 games won. That December 7 game was fultz's 5th game back. Also during that stretch Carter and Harris were still out.

Saying fultz doesn't lead to winning basketball is just ridiculous. Now he hasn't shown himself to lead to dominating or anything but he is a big part of the winning here.

Fultz's lone season as the starting point guard the Magic went 33-40 and got blasted in the first round in an incredibly weak Eastern Conference.

How many other seasons have the magic made the playoffs in the last decade or so? I don't think anyone here is saying fultz is a top 5 or a top 10 point guard. But he is better than what we've had in a long time and he is not the biggest weakness on this roster. To me fixing the biggest weakness is the first priority. Suggs could eventually supplant him from the starting lineup and make fultz trade able or the backup. Time will tell.

[VFX]

There is a history of the magic playing winning basketball with Fultz on the floor. See a few years ago he was the starting point guard and made the playoffs. I will give Cole credit that he has shown some improvements this year but remember last season when we were actively tanking. Intentionally losing. You know a key part of that was by starting Cole in all 65 games he played. Now how about this season. Thow out the first 20 games and that will bring to December 7 and the start of a 7 game win streak and I think 9 out of 10 games won. That December 7 game was fultz's 5th game back. Also during that stretch Carter and Harris were still out.

Saying fultz doesn't lead to winning basketball is just ridiculous. Now he hasn't shown himself to lead to dominating or anything but he is a big part of the winning here.

Fultz's lone season as the starting point guard the Magic went 33-40 and got blasted in the first round in an incredibly weak Eastern Conference.

How many other seasons have the magic made the playoffs in the last decade or so? I don't think anyone here is saying fultz is a top 5 or a top 10 point guard. But he is better than what we've had in a long time and he is not the biggest weakness on this roster. To me fixing the biggest weakness is the first priority. Suggs could eventually supplant him from the starting lineup and make fultz trade able or the backup. Time will tell.

This has been stated before. It’s not a high bar to hit as a point guard for the Magic.

He isn’t the biggest weakness for the Magic? Who is then?

He’s a point guard that refuses to shoot 3’s and let’s defenses scheme against that deficiency. He doesn’t get to the line, doesn’t run a pick n roll, and costs starter money this season.

[anothermagicfan]

Fultz's lone season as the starting point guard the Magic went 33-40 and got blasted in the first round in an incredibly weak Eastern Conference.

How many other seasons have the magic made the playoffs in the last decade or so? I don't think anyone here is saying fultz is a top 5 or a top 10 point guard. But he is better than what we've had in a long time and he is not the biggest weakness on this roster. To me fixing the biggest weakness is the first priority. Suggs could eventually supplant him from the starting lineup and make fultz trade able or the backup. Time will tell.

This has been stated before. It’s not a high bar to hit as a point guard for the Magic.

He isn’t the biggest weakness for the Magic? Who is then?

He’s a point guard that refuses to shoot 3’s and let’s defenses scheme against that deficiency. He doesn’t get to the line, doesn’t run a pick n roll, and costs starter money this season.

Well if it's not fultz at the 1, and it's not Franz at the 3, and it's not Paulo at the 4, and probably not Carter at the 5 then that would lead to a capable shooting guard that can get buckets and space the floor and play defense as the answer. Oh and the bench isn't too bad iether. So it's emphatically the 2 guard. Harris is a decent defender but he has not provided steady health or production as an experienced vet. His 3 ball does have a decent percentage but he doesn't provide nearly enough scoring for being a shooter.

[Skybox]

There is a history of the magic playing winning basketball with Fultz on the floor. See a few years ago he was the starting point guard and made the playoffs. I will give Cole credit that he has shown some improvements this year but remember last season when we were actively tanking. Intentionally losing. You know a key part of that was by starting Cole in all 65 games he played. Now how about this season. Thow out the first 20 games and that will bring to December 7 and the start of a 7 game win streak and I think 9 out of 10 games won. That December 7 game was fultz's 5th game back. Also during that stretch Carter and Harris were still out.

Saying fultz doesn't lead to winning basketball is just ridiculous. Now he hasn't shown himself to lead to dominating or anything but he is a big part of the winning here.

Fultz's lone season as the starting point guard the Magic went 33-40 and got blasted in the first round in an incredibly weak Eastern Conference.

How many other seasons have the magic made the playoffs in the last decade or so? I don't think anyone here is saying fultz is a top 5 or a top 10 point guard. But he is better than what we've had in a long time and he is not the biggest weakness on this roster. To me fixing the biggest weakness is the first priority. Suggs could eventually supplant him from the starting lineup and make fultz trade able or the backup. Time will tell.

Realistically, he may not be a top 25 point guard.

Crediting Fultz for the Vuc-led playoff appearances is utterly ridiculous. IF ORL had more than one player with any offensive skills, they might have actually won more than one playoff game. The entire offense was based around and directly upon Vuc's shoulders. It was a very limiting scheme and proved to have a pretty low ceiling - do you really think Cliff ONLY wanted Vuc to score? or is it pretty clear that noone else could do it...not AG, sometimes Evan (then it's "Buddy Ball", as if anyone else but the two could hit a shot), not Isaac, and certainly not Fultz (I honestly forgot he was even there...wasn't DJ Augustin our best PG by a mile?).

[Skin]

What do you think he's going to use to justify it?

If he starts at point guard next season, then he'll go into the summer of 2024 as a multi-season "entrenched" starting point guard, heading into his physical prime at age 26.

Plus there's a good chance with Paolo and Franz and Suggs all continuing to get better + Isaac health + lotto picks + possible free agent signings that the Magic don't start 5-20 next year and end up with a winning record. This could happen in spite of Fultz's limitations IMO.

He ain't taking a pay cut from the Magic to remain the starting PG.

Now he might end up getting less than that if they play hard ball with him and let him walk, but he and his agent are going to seek a raise and feel completely justified in doing so.

So you think the Magic will pay him because of his teammates and not his own merit. You're lying to yourself.

He'll get according to his worth. WeHam has showed more often than not, that they are able to sign guys on good deals.

[anothermagicfan]

Fultz's lone season as the starting point guard the Magic went 33-40 and got blasted in the first round in an incredibly weak Eastern Conference.

How many other seasons have the magic made the playoffs in the last decade or so? I don't think anyone here is saying fultz is a top 5 or a top 10 point guard. But he is better than what we've had in a long time and he is not the biggest weakness on this roster. To me fixing the biggest weakness is the first priority. Suggs could eventually supplant him from the starting lineup and make fultz trade able or the backup. Time will tell.

Realistically, he may not be a top 25 point guard.

Crediting Fultz for the Vuc-led playoff appearances is utterly ridiculous. IF ORL had more than one player with any offensive skills, they might have actually won more than one playoff game. The entire offense was based around and directly upon Vuc's shoulders. It was a very limiting scheme and proved to have a pretty low ceiling - do you really think Cliff ONLY wanted Vuc to score? or is it pretty clear that noone else could do it...not AG, sometimes Evan (then it's "Buddy Ball", as if anyone else but the two could hit a shot), not Isaac, and certainly not Fultz (I honestly forgot he was even there...wasn't DJ Augustin our best PG by a mile?).

Augustine was serviceable and scored decently. He was a career backup and led some tank years mostly. He wasn't a good defender but was not a selfish player. I wouldn't say he's better than Fultz.

That team was definitely led by Vuc as it should have been. Isaac and AG provided some really good defense and that was crucial to being playoff worthy. Poor Fournier and all his critics. He's not done much this year. I believe he barely plays but I am almost certain that a year or 2 ago he set the Knicks team record for 3 pointers made in a season. But that too was probably because of buddy ball. Oh damn he wasn't playing with his buddy then. Hhhmmm. Weird.

Anyways wasn't that also basically fultz's rookie season as far as games played?
And how deep was that teams depth?

[Skybox]

How many other seasons have the magic made the playoffs in the last decade or so? I don't think anyone here is saying fultz is a top 5 or a top 10 point guard. But he is better than what we've had in a long time and he is not the biggest weakness on this roster. To me fixing the biggest weakness is the first priority. Suggs could eventually supplant him from the starting lineup and make fultz trade able or the backup. Time will tell.

Realistically, he may not be a top 25 point guard.

Crediting Fultz for the Vuc-led playoff appearances is utterly ridiculous. IF ORL had more than one player with any offensive skills, they might have actually won more than one playoff game. The entire offense was based around and directly upon Vuc's shoulders. It was a very limiting scheme and proved to have a pretty low ceiling - do you really think Cliff ONLY wanted Vuc to score? or is it pretty clear that noone else could do it...not AG, sometimes Evan (then it's "Buddy Ball", as if anyone else but the two could hit a shot), not Isaac, and certainly not Fultz (I honestly forgot he was even there...wasn't DJ Augustin our best PG by a mile?).

Augustine was serviceable and scored decently. He was a career backup and led some tank years mostly. He wasn't a good defender but was not a selfish player. I wouldn't say he's better than Fultz.

That team was definitely led by Vuc as it should have been. Isaac and AG provided some really good defense and that was crucial to being playoff worthy. Poor Fournier and all his critics. He's not done much this year. I believe he barely plays but I am almost certain that a year or 2 ago he set the Knicks team record for 3 pointers made in a season. But that too was probably because of buddy ball. Oh damn he wasn't playing with his buddy then. Hhhmmm. Weird.

Anyways wasn't that also basically fultz's rookie season as far as games played?
And how deep was that teams depth?

My point was that Fultz deserves zero credit for that mediocre run...and I agree he was still incubating and not really back like he is now. I don't blame Fultz, but he was a non-factor and suggesting he had a role then isn't supportable. Not sure what yours is.

[Knightro]

So you think the Magic will pay him because of his teammates and not his own merit. You're lying to yourself.

He'll get according to his worth. WeHam has showed more often than not, that they are able to sign guys on good deals.

This is all well and good, except it ignores the fact that this exact same front office has quite literally already paid him far more than he’s worth on his current contract.

He’s not a $17M a year player and they happily gave him that when no one else was remotely interested in paying him anything close to that at that time.

[anothermagicfan]

Realistically, he may not be a top 25 point guard.

Crediting Fultz for the Vuc-led playoff appearances is utterly ridiculous. IF ORL had more than one player with any offensive skills, they might have actually won more than one playoff game. The entire offense was based around and directly upon Vuc's shoulders. It was a very limiting scheme and proved to have a pretty low ceiling - do you really think Cliff ONLY wanted Vuc to score? or is it pretty clear that noone else could do it...not AG, sometimes Evan (then it's "Buddy Ball", as if anyone else but the two could hit a shot), not Isaac, and certainly not Fultz (I honestly forgot he was even there...wasn't DJ Augustin our best PG by a mile?).

Augustine was serviceable and scored decently. He was a career backup and led some tank years mostly. He wasn't a good defender but was not a selfish player. I wouldn't say he's better than Fultz.

That team was definitely led by Vuc as it should have been. Isaac and AG provided some really good defense and that was crucial to being playoff worthy. Poor Fournier and all his critics. He's not done much this year. I believe he barely plays but I am almost certain that a year or 2 ago he set the Knicks team record for 3 pointers made in a season. But that too was probably because of buddy ball. Oh damn he wasn't playing with his buddy then. Hhhmmm. Weird.

Anyways wasn't that also basically fultz's rookie season as far as games played?
And how deep was that teams depth?

My point was that Fultz deserves zero credit for that mediocre run...and I agree he was still incubating and not really back like he is now. I don't blame Fultz, but he was a non-factor and suggesting he had a role then isn't supportable. Not sure what yours is.

Your point is that the starting point guard for that mediocre run deserves zero credit for the team making the playoffs that year? I'm not saying fultz was the reason we made the playoffs that year but he most certainly did contribute to that teams success much like he contributes to the current teams success. That is my point.

[thelead]

So you think the Magic will pay him because of his teammates and not his own merit. You're lying to yourself.

He'll get according to his worth. WeHam has showed more often than not, that they are able to sign guys on good deals.

This is all well and good, except it ignores the fact that this exact same front office has quite literally already paid him far more than he’s worth on his current contract.

He’s not a $17M a year player and they happily gave him that when no one else was remotely interested in paying him anything close to that at that time.

Don't we need JI's and Fultz' contract to reach the salary cap floor? My guess is that this was the reason to overpay those two while tanking.

[eyriq]

What do you think he's going to use to justify it?

If he starts at point guard next season, then he'll go into the summer of 2024 as a multi-season "entrenched" starting point guard, heading into his physical prime at age 26.

Plus there's a good chance with Paolo and Franz and Suggs all continuing to get better + Isaac health + lotto picks + possible free agent signings that the Magic don't start 5-20 next year and end up with a winning record. This could happen in spite of Fultz's limitations IMO.

He ain't taking a pay cut from the Magic to remain the starting PG.

Now he might end up getting less than that if they play hard ball with him and let him walk, but he and his agent are going to seek a raise and feel completely justified in doing so.

He's worth around what he's making currently. Marcus Smart money is fair. I don't think he gets a raise unless they think he can move into the top 15 at the position.

[Knightro]

Don't we need JI's and Fultz' contract to reach the salary cap floor? My guess is that this was the reason to overpay those two while tanking.

Negative.

Those two extensions were agreed to in December 2020, before the Magic ever traded away Vucevic, Fournier and Gordon.

[thelead]

Don't we need JI's and Fultz' contract to reach the salary cap floor? My guess is that this was the reason to overpay those two while tanking.

Negative.

Those two extensions were agreed to in December 2020, before the Magic ever traded away Vucevic, Fournier and Gordon.

Maybe they had their plan ahead of the season. They had to know the team was going nowhere and were going to gut it to rebuild. Good management would have contingency plans in place.

[anothermagicfan]

So you think the Magic will pay him because of his teammates and not his own merit. You're lying to yourself.

He'll get according to his worth. WeHam has showed more often than not, that they are able to sign guys on good deals.

This is all well and good, except it ignores the fact that this exact same front office has quite literally already paid him far more than he’s worth on his current contract.

He’s not a $17M a year player and they happily gave him that when no one else was remotely interested in paying him anything close to that at that time.

17 mil is a whole lotta money to almost every one. In the NBA it's not. Most rosters are filled with a handful of big contracts and a bunch of smallish few million per year guys. There are several crippling contracts of guys getting paid 30-40-even 50 mil per year. Fultz and Isaac at the highest paid on the magic roster of 17 mil each is not bad. And the biggest derailment for both in locking up bigger money is health and stability. Neither are working for them so I don't see huge pay raises for iether however I do feel like they should both be kept and treated like part of the core were building around

[eyriq]

Why does Gary Harris need to be resigned?

Orlando can add vet depth from guys that don’t need to start.

Being too young is somehow only important to Orlando. Meanwhile Memphis and New Orleans are playoff teams and super young. Not sure why they didn’t sign a bunch of 32 year old vets to play in place of their prospects…

Are you arguing that the next SG starter should come from the current bench? This is the argument for Fultz and Suggs to co-start. This season proved that this does not work at all.

Orlando must have shooting at the 2 slot.


..

I respect your opinion and am genuinely curious why you think the Suggs and Fultz backcourt does not work at all.

[Knightro]

Maybe they had their plan ahead of the season. They had to know the team was going nowhere and were going to gut it to rebuild. Good management would have contingency plans in place.

I think they had every intention of making the playoffs in 2021 and pivoted only when it clearly wasn't happening.

They signed Dwayne Bacon and brought back Michael Carter-Williams and James Ennis. They had Chuma Okeke and Cole Anthony coming in.

Had they been 20-24 instead of 15-29 at the deadline, I truly don't think they sell until that summer.