The Official Jalen Suggs Thread

[zaymon]

Suggs has only been playing PG part-time but we miss a lot of his potential assists.

Read on Twitter

?t=b-NM4tXwPS7yeguDwY8lOw&s=19

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

That's interesting.

Also - if we only had 1 pick in the top 10 (outside of top 3), I'd love to have Giddey. But with 2 picks I like Franz+Suggs more.

Yeah Giddey + Wagner is propably too little athletecism and rim protection. In theory Suggs is perfect next to player like Franz. He will shine even more when we delete weak defensive links from the rotation. His offensive efficiency is awful, but when you look from perspective of shots he is creating it doesnt look bad. He can get to the rim at will, he is smooth going to his pull up jumpers, he can make quick reads with the ball.

[tiderulz]

he's shown he is willing. but he is shooting 23% and gone 11-56 for the last 2 months. No, i dont care about wins right now, but he needs to work on that shot.

I mean you nailed it, right? He needs to work on his shot.

But it’s not like he’s gonna have time right now to relentlessly do drills with a shooting coach. That sort of work won’t come until the offseason.

Because the outcome of these games doesn’t matter, that’s all the more reason for him to keep shooting now in the hopes of figuring it out. If going 0-4 from 3 a few times in his rookie year breaks him mentally and confident wise, then he’s probably not the guy we thought he was anyway long-term.

I agree, so take less 3 pt shots in the game right now. in the past 2 months, he has had nights of 0-4, 1-4, 0-5, 1-6, 1-5, 1-7. If he was a better shooter and started out the night cold, it wouldnt be an issue if he had an off 0-5/1-5 night. but he isnt a good 3 pt shooter. He shouldnt be taking more than 3 attempts until he gains more consistently. and he obviously isnt "just going to figure it out". we need a shooting coach to work with him. We have too many bad shooters on the team for people to think players will just "figure it out". you can think that if a player had a few years of good shooting and then was having an off year. That is not the case with Suggs.

Just my opinion

[basketballRob]

I think Suggs should shoot more threes, everytime he's open. The best way to learn is to fail a lot.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Horcy]

Nothing really THAT concerning about Suggs yet, IMO.

At the top-15 of any draft, one can ask, "what is his definable NBA skill"? (which is why Gordon was always a risk).

For Suggs, he is proven to be capable as a defensive guard. He will carve out a multi-year career simply by being a pest. In that for me the absolute floor of Suggs is as a Bruce Bowen-type as a combo-guard. Just be a pest and annoy the opponents down.

As to his ceiling, I guess as a Chauncey Billups-type, if I had to consider the notion.
Interesting that the rookie numbers are not that far off between these two: rookie Player Comparison: Jalen Suggs vs. Chauncey Billups


..

I remember when we traded for Chauncey Billups, but he never played because he was hurt and then we let him go because we thought he was a draft bust.

Didn't we trade Billups to acquire Grant Hill? Hmmmm... we "let him go"
Well...it ended horribly wrong but at that time that Sign & Trade that sent Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups let us acquire two of the best players in the League, Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady.
I believe it had nothing to do with Billups...any other team in the NBA would have done that same deal.

[Xatticus]

At the top-15 of any draft, one can ask, "what is his definable NBA skill"? (which is why Gordon was always a risk).

For Suggs, he is proven to be capable as a defensive guard. He will carve out a multi-year career simply by being a pest. In that for me the absolute floor of Suggs is as a Bruce Bowen-type as a combo-guard. Just be a pest and annoy the opponents down.

As to his ceiling, I guess as a Chauncey Billups-type, if I had to consider the notion.
Interesting that the rookie numbers are not that far off between these two: rookie Player Comparison: Jalen Suggs vs. Chauncey Billups


..

I remember when we traded for Chauncey Billups, but he never played because he was hurt and then we let him go because we thought he was a draft bust.

Didn't we trade Billups to acquire Grant Hill? Hmmmm... we "let him go"
Well...it ended horribly wrong but at that time that Sign & Trade that sent Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups let us acquire two of the best players in the League, Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady.
I believe it had nothing to do with Billups...any other team in the NBA would have done that same deal.

No. He was just an expiring contract that we picked up during the heart-and-hustle season. We were clearing the decks for a run at free agents during the summer. Billups was out for the year and had already washed out in Boston, Toronto, and Denver. We might've kicked the tires had he not been injured, but we just released him.

[Horcy]

I remember when we traded for Chauncey Billups, but he never played because he was hurt and then we let him go because we thought he was a draft bust.

Didn't we trade Billups to acquire Grant Hill? Hmmmm... we "let him go"
Well...it ended horribly wrong but at that time that Sign & Trade that sent Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups let us acquire two of the best players in the League, Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady.
I believe it had nothing to do with Billups...any other team in the NBA would have done that same deal.

No. He was just an expiring contract that we picked up during the heart-and-hustle season. We were clearing the decks for a run at free agents during the summer. Billups was out for the year and had already washed out in Boston, Toronto, and Denver. We might've kicked the tires had he not been injured, but we just released him.

Oh. That's true. My bad. It was the great Chucky Atkins

[jezzerinho]

I think Suggs should shoot more threes, everytime he's open. The best way to learn is to fail a lot.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

I think he definitely needs to take his open threes, for his and the team's sake.

That'll also generate game film for him and the coaches to dissect the misses. It might be just a need for more arm strength or a small technical adjustment, as they're not wild misses in general.

[basketballRob]

De'Aaron Fox put up similar stats as Suggs his rookie season. His TS was 475, Suggs is at 462.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=foxde01&p1yrfrom=2018&player_id2=suggsja01


Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[KillMonger]

Watch on YouTube

like that we have a guard that likes to push the ball to put pressure on the defense...was always frustrated to see us lightly trot down the court even though we had athletes...

[Skybox]

Watch on YouTube

like that we have a guard that likes to push the ball to put pressure on the defense...was always frustrated to see us lightly trot down the court even though we had athletes...

As much energy as I waste on trying to piece together lineups that get PT for our best players, I'm coming to the undeniable conclusion that...Suggs IS our PG and leader of the near future...He's the QB

I'm clinging to Fultz but I don't want to see Suggs marginalized. We need a clear QB1 if we are ever going to see a real team chemistry come into focus. I hope there is a place for Cole to contribute but, if we're going to get anywhere, he's not a starting PG on a good team. Suggs was, depending on your definitions, the top PG in the draft...give him the ball.

[pepe1991]

Watch on YouTube

like that we have a guard that likes to push the ball to put pressure on the defense...was always frustrated to see us lightly trot down the court even though we had athletes...

As much energy as I waste on trying to piece together lineups that get PT for our best players, I'm coming to the undeniable conclusion that...Suggs IS our PG and leader of the near future...He's the QB

I'm clinging to Fultz but I don't want to see Suggs marginalized. We need a clear QB1 if we are ever going to see a real team chemistry come into focus. I hope there is a place for Cole to contribute but, if we're going to get anywhere, he's not a starting PG on a good team. Suggs was, depending on your definitions, the top PG in the draft...give him the ball.

Isnt' most important skill for quaterback- making plays?

How is Suggs "quaterback" if his playmaking is extreamly simplistic and robotic and if he does not have much creativity in general?
Fultz is basically the same. His decision making with ball, in situations to set others wasn't anything special. Despite Magic board trying to paint him , in lack of anything else to overhype ,as "amazing playmaker". Let's just say that Amazing playmakers, like one with funny hair before, don't average 6 assists a game in modern basketball. Because if anything, nba assist count is as linear and inflated as it's possible nowdays ( player passing ball,guy making 4 dribbles and making shots is still somehow assist for guy who did nothing but just gave up ball ).

Matter of fact Orlando Magic offensive rating with Jalen Suggs is 103,5.
Orlando Magic offensive rating without Jalen Suggs is 107,2.
Now, both offensvie ratings suck, but one is Detroit Pistons level bad, other is "just" Clippers without only two good players whole year level bad.

By all perimeters, Jalen Suggs is Eric Bledsoe with worst jumpshot type PG. Average creativity, pesty guard, boring on ball defender, mediocre ballhandler, mediocre passer, built like tank and because of his strenght , never needed to develop anything else at college to be very good.
This raging need to dig everything about him in desparate need to portray him in positive light is just that, desparate attemp to feel better about 5th overall pick that is not good by any streach of imagination during his rookie year.
For what i care, he might become Steph Curry next year and by 2025 become best player to ever walk planet Earth. But until that happends let's just judge bim based on what he shows, not what people dream he will become.

if you want to watch how young and good playmaker looks like, watch Haliburton set his team.
Or watch Chris Paul at age of 36. one thing he doesn't do- jack 4 threes a game if he makes 22% of them. One thing he always does- creates points for othres. Despite being 36 and harly looking for own shots (11,5 shots a game) he creates whooping 19,5 potential assists. Same with prime Nash.
Magic, despite having THREE point guards on roster, still have zero playmakers capable of running ofense. Addition of Suggs turned to be adding Fultz clone instad of adding actual playmaker.

[Skybox]

Watch on YouTube

like that we have a guard that likes to push the ball to put pressure on the defense...was always frustrated to see us lightly trot down the court even though we had athletes...

As much energy as I waste on trying to piece together lineups that get PT for our best players, I'm coming to the undeniable conclusion that...Suggs IS our PG and leader of the near future...He's the QB

I'm clinging to Fultz but I don't want to see Suggs marginalized. We need a clear QB1 if we are ever going to see a real team chemistry come into focus. I hope there is a place for Cole to contribute but, if we're going to get anywhere, he's not a starting PG on a good team. Suggs was, depending on your definitions, the top PG in the draft...give him the ball.

Isnt' most important skill for quaterback- making plays?

How is Suggs "quaterback" if his playmaking is extreamly simplistic and robotic and if he does not have much creativity in general?
Fultz is basically the same. His decision making with ball, in situations to set others wasn't anything special. Despite Magic board trying to paint him , in lack of anything else to overhype ,as "amazing playmaker". Let's just say that Amazing playmakers, like one with funny hair before, don't average 6 assists a game in modern basketball. Because if anything, nba assist count is as linear and inflated as it's possible nowdays ( player passing ball,guy making 4 dribbles and making shots is still somehow assist for guy who did nothing but just gave up ball ).

Matter of fact Orlando Magic offensive rating with Jalen Suggs is 103,5.
Orlando Magic offensive rating without Jalen Suggs is 107,2.
Now, both offensvie ratings suck, but one is Detroit Pistons level bad, other is "just" Clippers without only two good players whole year level bad.

By all perimeters, Jalen Suggs is Eric Bledsoe with worst jumpshot type PG. Average creativity, pesty guard, boring on ball defender, mediocre ballhandler, mediocre passer, built like tank and because of his strenght , never needed to develop anything else at college to be very good.
This raging need to dig everything about him in desparate need to portray him in positive light is just that, desparate attemp to feel better about 5th overall pick that is not good by any streach of imagination during his rookie year.
For what i care, he might become Steph Curry next year and by 2025 become best player to ever walk planet Earth. But until that happends let's just judge bim based on what he shows, not what people dream he will become.

He's a very promising rookie with great intangibles. Many people have posted comparisons with other rookies who turned out well. I can't imagine you're ready to flush Suggs so soon...I know you don't approve of any players in the NBA but I don't think too many others would condemn him as quickly as you.

[pepe1991]

As much energy as I waste on trying to piece together lineups that get PT for our best players, I'm coming to the undeniable conclusion that...Suggs IS our PG and leader of the near future...He's the QB

I'm clinging to Fultz but I don't want to see Suggs marginalized. We need a clear QB1 if we are ever going to see a real team chemistry come into focus. I hope there is a place for Cole to contribute but, if we're going to get anywhere, he's not a starting PG on a good team. Suggs was, depending on your definitions, the top PG in the draft...give him the ball.

Isnt' most important skill for quaterback- making plays?

How is Suggs "quaterback" if his playmaking is extreamly simplistic and robotic and if he does not have much creativity in general?
Fultz is basically the same. His decision making with ball, in situations to set others wasn't anything special. Despite Magic board trying to paint him , in lack of anything else to overhype ,as "amazing playmaker". Let's just say that Amazing playmakers, like one with funny hair before, don't average 6 assists a game in modern basketball. Because if anything, nba assist count is as linear and inflated as it's possible nowdays ( player passing ball,guy making 4 dribbles and making shots is still somehow assist for guy who did nothing but just gave up ball ).

Matter of fact Orlando Magic offensive rating with Jalen Suggs is 103,5.
Orlando Magic offensive rating without Jalen Suggs is 107,2.
Now, both offensvie ratings suck, but one is Detroit Pistons level bad, other is "just" Clippers without only two good players whole year level bad.

By all perimeters, Jalen Suggs is Eric Bledsoe with worst jumpshot type PG. Average creativity, pesty guard, boring on ball defender, mediocre ballhandler, mediocre passer, built like tank and because of his strenght , never needed to develop anything else at college to be very good.
This raging need to dig everything about him in desparate need to portray him in positive light is just that, desparate attemp to feel better about 5th overall pick that is not good by any streach of imagination during his rookie year.
For what i care, he might become Steph Curry next year and by 2025 become best player to ever walk planet Earth. But until that happends let's just judge bim based on what he shows, not what people dream he will become.

He's a very promising rookie with great intangibles. Many people have posted comparisons with other rookies who turned out well. I can't imagine you're ready to flush Suggs so soon...I know you don't approve of any players in the NBA but I don't think too many others would condemn him as quickly as you.

can you tell me based on this witch one is your "promising young rookie" and witch one is Mudiay based on anything else but Suggs epic 22% for 3?

I did not give up on him nor i'm his parent to "give up" on him or anybody else. He is nba player. Judged by nba standards. if you want to put baby pacifier in his mouth and call him sweety that's on you, somebody who is 20 isn't baby, especially if you pay him what, $5M a year and who has $15 000 000 of guaranteed money.
What he is today is only objective thing he should be judged on. What he be in 5 years it's not up to me to say ,because last time i checked ,i didn't have gift od diviving the future. What i do know, is fact that very little amount of players go from worst shooter in recent history from every range to good shooters, in era where elite guard has to be at least average nba shooter.
ESPECIALLY because he isn't all that gifted playmaker. Esencially being strong guard who can defend and can't do anything on offense well enough by nba standards

[Magic_Kingdom]

Without going back to read the draft night threads, I would assume most on this board expected a lot more from Suggs. He was the steal of the draft, the point guard of the future, the team leader we needed. Let's face it, he's been disappointing. He's not even starting at PG, and he's really been gifted the starting SG spot over Harris despite being the worst shooter on the team. We don't know what his future will be, but if they did a re-draft poll of the league's GM's at the end of the season, how many would take Suggs over Giddey?

[tiderulz]

Watch on YouTube

like that we have a guard that likes to push the ball to put pressure on the defense...was always frustrated to see us lightly trot down the court even though we had athletes...

As much energy as I waste on trying to piece together lineups that get PT for our best players, I'm coming to the undeniable conclusion that...Suggs IS our PG and leader of the near future...He's the QB

I'm clinging to Fultz but I don't want to see Suggs marginalized. We need a clear QB1 if we are ever going to see a real team chemistry come into focus. I hope there is a place for Cole to contribute but, if we're going to get anywhere, he's not a starting PG on a good team. Suggs was, depending on your definitions, the top PG in the draft...give him the ball.

Isnt' most important skill for quaterback- making plays?

How is Suggs "quaterback" if his playmaking is extreamly simplistic and robotic and if he does not have much creativity in general?
Fultz is basically the same. His decision making with ball, in situations to set others wasn't anything special. Despite Magic board trying to paint him , in lack of anything else to overhype ,as "amazing playmaker". Let's just say that Amazing playmakers, like one with funny hair before, don't average 6 assists a game in modern basketball. Because if anything, nba assist count is as linear and inflated as it's possible nowdays ( player passing ball,guy making 4 dribbles and making shots is still somehow assist for guy who did nothing but just gave up ball ).

Matter of fact Orlando Magic offensive rating with Jalen Suggs is 103,5.
Orlando Magic offensive rating without Jalen Suggs is 107,2.
Now, both offensvie ratings suck, but one is Detroit Pistons level bad, other is "just" Clippers without only two good players whole year level bad.

By all perimeters, Jalen Suggs is Eric Bledsoe with worst jumpshot type PG. Average creativity, pesty guard, boring on ball defender, mediocre ballhandler, mediocre passer, built like tank and because of his strenght , never needed to develop anything else at college to be very good.
This raging need to dig everything about him in desparate need to portray him in positive light is just that, desparate attemp to feel better about 5th overall pick that is not good by any streach of imagination during his rookie year.
For what i care, he might become Steph Curry next year and by 2025 become best player to ever walk planet Earth. But until that happends let's just judge bim based on what he shows, not what people dream he will become.

if you want to watch how young and good playmaker looks like, watch Haliburton set his team.
Or watch Chris Paul at age of 36. one thing he doesn't do- jack 4 threes a game if he makes 22% of them. One thing he always does- creates points for othres. Despite being 36 and harly looking for own shots (11,5 shots a game) he creates whooping 19,5 potential assists. Same with prime Nash.
Magic, despite having THREE point guards on roster, still have zero playmakers capable of running ofense. Addition of Suggs turned to be adding Fultz clone instad of adding actual playmaker.

its not like he spent years at college and had a lot of time to develop new stuff. In reality, he had about 3 months to really work on his game before the season started. again, rookie player, never fully devoted to basketball so ill give him another year or to before passing final judgement. This need to judge rookies so quickly (by many people, not just you) still surprises me. there are many examples of players that needed a couple of years of seasoning. Eric Bledsoe who you compared him to is an example.

[pepe1991]

As much energy as I waste on trying to piece together lineups that get PT for our best players, I'm coming to the undeniable conclusion that...Suggs IS our PG and leader of the near future...He's the QB

I'm clinging to Fultz but I don't want to see Suggs marginalized. We need a clear QB1 if we are ever going to see a real team chemistry come into focus. I hope there is a place for Cole to contribute but, if we're going to get anywhere, he's not a starting PG on a good team. Suggs was, depending on your definitions, the top PG in the draft...give him the ball.

Isnt' most important skill for quaterback- making plays?

How is Suggs "quaterback" if his playmaking is extreamly simplistic and robotic and if he does not have much creativity in general?
Fultz is basically the same. His decision making with ball, in situations to set others wasn't anything special. Despite Magic board trying to paint him , in lack of anything else to overhype ,as "amazing playmaker". Let's just say that Amazing playmakers, like one with funny hair before, don't average 6 assists a game in modern basketball. Because if anything, nba assist count is as linear and inflated as it's possible nowdays ( player passing ball,guy making 4 dribbles and making shots is still somehow assist for guy who did nothing but just gave up ball ).

Matter of fact Orlando Magic offensive rating with Jalen Suggs is 103,5.
Orlando Magic offensive rating without Jalen Suggs is 107,2.
Now, both offensvie ratings suck, but one is Detroit Pistons level bad, other is "just" Clippers without only two good players whole year level bad.

By all perimeters, Jalen Suggs is Eric Bledsoe with worst jumpshot type PG. Average creativity, pesty guard, boring on ball defender, mediocre ballhandler, mediocre passer, built like tank and because of his strenght , never needed to develop anything else at college to be very good.
This raging need to dig everything about him in desparate need to portray him in positive light is just that, desparate attemp to feel better about 5th overall pick that is not good by any streach of imagination during his rookie year.
For what i care, he might become Steph Curry next year and by 2025 become best player to ever walk planet Earth. But until that happends let's just judge bim based on what he shows, not what people dream he will become.

if you want to watch how young and good playmaker looks like, watch Haliburton set his team.
Or watch Chris Paul at age of 36. one thing he doesn't do- jack 4 threes a game if he makes 22% of them. One thing he always does- creates points for othres. Despite being 36 and harly looking for own shots (11,5 shots a game) he creates whooping 19,5 potential assists. Same with prime Nash.
Magic, despite having THREE point guards on roster, still have zero playmakers capable of running ofense. Addition of Suggs turned to be adding Fultz clone instad of adding actual playmaker.

its not like he spent years at college and had a lot of time to develop new stuff. In reality, he had about 3 months to really work on his game before the season started. again, rookie player, never fully devoted to basketball so ill give him another year or to before passing final judgement. This need to judge rookies so quickly (by many people, not just you) still surprises me. there are many examples of players that needed a couple of years of seasoning. Eric Bledsoe who you compared him to is an example.

He had as much preparation time as Mobley, Barnes, Wagner or anybody else in that class.

Today almost nobody has "couple of years" to figure out.
Hampton is closer to not having 4th year picked than being awarded starting job to figure out.
Dennis Smith lasted 3 years before he started to bounce around.
Bender- 3 years and out
Culver- already out of nba
Cam Reddish - two teams, marginal role.

Now it's possible that Orlando sucks for next 3 years and continue to invest time into dead horse ( Mo Bamba syndrome, blame everybody but player for everything) but serious nba teams won't waste years to figure somebody isn't good.

This may, or may not be case with Suggs, and i already said i don't have cristal ball to know future, but right now he is one of the worst shootes at guard positions in nba. And on top of that ,he isn't even very good playmaker. That's objective reality.

As i said above, for what i care, he might become Steph Curry next year.

For sake of argument, i wanted him over Barnes & thought he is excellent pickup. Half of year later i just don't have need to defend my previous opinions because he simply is playing bad basketball. Just like i'm fine with being wrong about Franz, who is exeeding expetations by long margin. And i'm happy to be wrong about it. just like i will be happy if Suggs "proves me wrong". But much like it was case with Fultz & his shooting and Payton and everything about him, i struggle to see that scenario as objective one.
You don't go mediocre highschool shooter, mediocre college shooter, dreadful nba rookie shooter into Dame Lillard. it doesn't work like that.

[Magic_Kingdom]

I just wish Mosley would start him at PG if that is where they envision him in the future, because then he can work on his play-making skills. But maybe they don't see it. If they think he would just lose the starting spot once Fultz returns, maybe they prefer to keep him at the two. Which means they used the #5 pick in a loaded draft on an undersized 2-guard who can't shoot.

If he could just start hitting his threes then the sky would stop falling and we could exhale.

[tiderulz]

Isnt' most important skill for quaterback- making plays?

How is Suggs "quaterback" if his playmaking is extreamly simplistic and robotic and if he does not have much creativity in general?
Fultz is basically the same. His decision making with ball, in situations to set others wasn't anything special. Despite Magic board trying to paint him , in lack of anything else to overhype ,as "amazing playmaker". Let's just say that Amazing playmakers, like one with funny hair before, don't average 6 assists a game in modern basketball. Because if anything, nba assist count is as linear and inflated as it's possible nowdays ( player passing ball,guy making 4 dribbles and making shots is still somehow assist for guy who did nothing but just gave up ball ).

Matter of fact Orlando Magic offensive rating with Jalen Suggs is 103,5.
Orlando Magic offensive rating without Jalen Suggs is 107,2.
Now, both offensvie ratings suck, but one is Detroit Pistons level bad, other is "just" Clippers without only two good players whole year level bad.

By all perimeters, Jalen Suggs is Eric Bledsoe with worst jumpshot type PG. Average creativity, pesty guard, boring on ball defender, mediocre ballhandler, mediocre passer, built like tank and because of his strenght , never needed to develop anything else at college to be very good.
This raging need to dig everything about him in desparate need to portray him in positive light is just that, desparate attemp to feel better about 5th overall pick that is not good by any streach of imagination during his rookie year.
For what i care, he might become Steph Curry next year and by 2025 become best player to ever walk planet Earth. But until that happends let's just judge bim based on what he shows, not what people dream he will become.

if you want to watch how young and good playmaker looks like, watch Haliburton set his team.
Or watch Chris Paul at age of 36. one thing he doesn't do- jack 4 threes a game if he makes 22% of them. One thing he always does- creates points for othres. Despite being 36 and harly looking for own shots (11,5 shots a game) he creates whooping 19,5 potential assists. Same with prime Nash.
Magic, despite having THREE point guards on roster, still have zero playmakers capable of running ofense. Addition of Suggs turned to be adding Fultz clone instad of adding actual playmaker.

its not like he spent years at college and had a lot of time to develop new stuff. In reality, he had about 3 months to really work on his game before the season started. again, rookie player, never fully devoted to basketball so ill give him another year or to before passing final judgement. This need to judge rookies so quickly (by many people, not just you) still surprises me. there are many examples of players that needed a couple of years of seasoning. Eric Bledsoe who you compared him to is an example.

He had as much preparation time as Mobley, Barnes, Wagner or anybody else in that class.

Today almost nobody has "couple of years" to figure out.
Hampton is closer to not having 4th year picked than being awarded starting job to figure out.
Dennis Smith lasted 3 years before he started to bounce around.
Bender- 3 years and out
Culver- already out of nba
Cam Reddish - two teams, marginal role.

Now it's possible that Orlando sucks for next 3 years and continue to invest time into dead horse ( Mo Bamba syndrome, blame everybody but player for everything) but serious nba teams won't waste years to figure somebody isn't good.

This may, or may not be case with Suggs, and i already said i don't have cristal ball to know future, but right now he is one of the worst shootes at guard positions in nba. And on top of that ,he isn't even very good playmaker. That's objective reality.

As i said above, for what i care, he might become Steph Curry next year.

For sake of argument, i wanted him over Barnes & thought he is excellent pickup. Half of year later i just don't have need to defend my previous opinions because he simply is playing bad basketball. Just like i'm fine with being wrong about Franz, who is exeeding expetations by long margin. And i'm happy to be wrong about it. just like i will be happy if Suggs "proves me wrong". But much like it was case with Fultz & his shooting and Payton and everything about him, i struggle to see that scenario as objective one.
You don't go mediocre highschool shooter, mediocre college shooter, dreadful nba rookie shooter into Dame Lillard. it doesn't work like that.

none of those players spent formative years playing 2 sports at an extremely high level (enough that he also had football scholarship offers). Wagner played professional club basketball in Germany before going to Michigan. So his development is different. And you can have a year or 2 to figure out it, because not all players spend 3-4 years in college working on their game. practically every player is draft nowadays on potential. Of the top-10 in last years draft, only 1 Junior. everyone else drafted on their potential. You have to give players a year or to with coaching to enable that potential. Except for future HOF's, many times it is about situation. As you have pointed out before. Kuminga or Barnes on the Magic would have been a train wreck. But with them on veteran teams, they can learn to play winning ball.

whatever, i fell back into this cycle of your statistical criticism of a rookie, while not allowing that a player can improve. Does Suggs improve? Well, he knows that he needs to work on his shot, so i will reserve judgement on him until i see him next year and if he spent the offseason working on his shot. By all accounts, he is a gym rat so i think he will put in the time. But just putting in the time doesnt guarantee success, so i will just have to wait and see

[Skybox]

Without going back to read the draft night threads, I would assume most on this board expected a lot more from Suggs. He was the steal of the draft, the point guard of the future, the team leader we needed. Let's face it, he's been disappointing. He's not even starting at PG, and he's really been gifted the starting SG spot over Harris despite being the worst shooter on the team. We don't know what his future will be, but if they did a re-draft poll of the league's GM's at the end of the season, how many would take Suggs over Giddey?

No doubt he's behind where many expected but to say he was gifted the PG spot isn't true given that Cole was next to him as the primary ball handler. I'm suggesting that we DO actually "gift it to him" right now and see where it goes. He's not enough of a shooter to be a pure SG...I think he's got a good head on his shoulders and an UNSELFISH WINNER's nature - along with his physical profile and (hopefully) developing skills. I say give him the ball rather than plug him in where he doesn't belong.

[The Effect]

Without going back to read the draft night threads, I would assume most on this board expected a lot more from Suggs. He was the steal of the draft, the point guard of the future, the team leader we needed. Let's face it, he's been disappointing. He's not even starting at PG, and he's really been gifted the starting SG spot over Harris despite being the worst shooter on the team. We don't know what his future will be, but if they did a re-draft poll of the league's GM's at the end of the season, how many would take Suggs over Giddey?

No doubt he's behind where many expected but to say he was gifted the PG spot isn't true given that Cole was next to him as the primary ball handler. I'm suggesting that we DO actually "gift it to him" right now and see where it goes. He's not enough of a shooter to be a pure SG...I think he's got a good head on his shoulders and an UNSELFISH WINNER's nature - along with his physical profile and (hopefully) developing skills. I say give him the ball rather than plug him in where he doesn't belong.

If thats what they decide to do and move cole to th e bench and make suggs the full time starting PG, then this draft and FA we HAVE to find a go-to scorer because suggs isnt a #1 option on offense, neither is franz (although hes closer than suggs) nor WC
if cole gets benched, we better find a 20ppg guy to plug in asap or else that offense is going to suffer